492 replies to this topic

[Logan]

I may be ending my experiment with MB. Something just does not feel right- more flat than I would like to be, feel more agitated than usual, experiencing jaw tension more than usual, have a weird hang over like headache, and I seem to go through some kind of withdrawal where I feel worse after it wears off.

I'm taking about 20 mcg a day. Maybe I will go lower, but I just don't see the point right now. I had high hopes for MB, but it just seems to be another high maintenance dosing agent that is not worth the potential for instability.

[MrHappy]

I came to the same conclusion. I was getting irritable and had difficulty relating to people. My libido also suffered.

Weird thing was that was at 700-1200mcg, I had the opposite effect at 60mcg - more blood to my nether regions, enhanced skin sensitivity. Oh.. and horny as heck most of the time.

The dose seems to be very subjective- some people see nothing much even at 20mg, others have effects at 5mcg. It's odd and needs more research. Perhaps water intake and/or Vitamin-C levels.

Interestingly enough, the Alzheimer's trials have progressed to 2nd generation MB - either Azure-B / Leuco-MB. It seems the reduced form and/or impurities in MB are actually the active ingredient for the effects.

[MrHappy]

I'm surprised you're seeing blue pee at 4.5mg / day, perhaps it's accumulating in your liver/ kidneys,not being fully absorbed and finding its way out in clumps. :P That, or you are slowly turning into a smurf.

I noticed that the dosage required seemed to fluctuate.. It's that or perhaps my 3 month old second stage solution is either oxized or no longer adequately mixed and the dosages were variable. I had 30mcg the other day and it hit me like a 2mg dose - felt like I had a blunt metal claw being pulled slowly from the top of my head to the back. Not partiuclarly painful, just irritating.

I did see a solid blue dot floating in the glass water, I suspect that was probably the reason.

Every time I stop taking MB, I end up with mild fever and irritability for a day or more, depending on what dosage I was taking.

[rwac]

Weird thing was that was at 700-1200mcg, I had the opposite effect at 60mcg - more blood to my nether regions, enhanced skin sensitivity. Oh.. and horny as heck most of the time.

It's not clear, which dose made you horny?

Edited by rwac, 20 October 2011 - 03:06 PM.

[amark]

I am taking approx. 100mg of Mb daily for the last 5 days. This is in powder form.

This was due to the study that indicated that it was effective on a significant number of people who were getting no or only partial relief of bi polar depression. I suffer from bi polar type 2.

it was a bit of a pain locating a source for it since the US gov has it on its hazardous material list. Why it is there is perplexing to me since there are so many more hazardous things I can easily buy. This is in powder form and is lab grade.

I have been taking the drug Lyrica and had found it improved my state of mind. (75mg 2x day.)

The MB has been quite effective. My wife says I am calmer and happier. Hopefully the placebo effect is not contagious since I value her observations.

I have been avoiding fermented cheeses and bananas since someone here stated it was a mild Mao inhibitor. No changes in Blood pressure. I am still not sure if this is necessary. I sent a letter to my doctor on this and will see what he says.

I took 300mg of Lyrica along with the MB and was able to induce a state of hypomania. This has never happened before. It was quite pleasant but I also suffered a moderate headache for 3 hours which was not so pleasant.

My urine turned a real nice shade of blue which has made taking a piss much more aesthetically pleasing.

It also seems to work well with caffiene and modafinal.

So, at least for me, it has so far been proven to be effective and usefull Both Lyrica and Mb affect aspect of the calcium channels in the brain. Earlier studies have tied what is suspected to be problems in the calcium channels to bi polar disorder. This might support that finding.

I decided to take 100mg a day of mb because in the study involving bi polar disorder 195 mg was the therapeutic dose. So I thought that half the dose might be a good place to start. I have not yet made an effort to find the minimum dose. I figured I that without adverse effects, I would wait until it was clear that the results were not the placebo effect, although I suspect that it is not.

I ordered the MB from Cel SCI. I tried ordering the identical from Graingers and they would not send it to my residence.

In addition I have been taking resveratrol along with biopeperine. Whether this has any affect I can only speculate. One thing that seems to be happening is my hair (bald) seems to be growing back more than previously. I had some hair regrowth with resveratrol, but this appears to have substantially increased. Hopefully this will continue to a level where it is undeniable. I do not attribute this to the MB.


i am not making any kind of claim for how it might affect anyone else, so please use your best judgement as regards to your own situation before taking my approach.

Edited by amark, 20 October 2011 - 04:34 PM.

[manic_racetam]

Is MB safe?

Safety Considerations:

Methylene blue is a dye used to stain DNA and bacteria in laboratories. First of all, it is light-sensitive, so should be stored in the dark (you can wrap your solutions, or your stock powder in tin foil). Second, it is not something you want to get on your skin – when making up a solution, or handling methylene blue, you should be wearing gloves – it is a known mutagen.

http://ubclts.com/do...Blue_Bottle.doc

I know people use it diluted, but what about long term use?

If MB stains DNA, does this mean it can affect it in some way?. Also, if it is a skin mutagen, I don´t see how taking it would be safe.

Doesn't this mean that handling and ingesting the undiluted powder is possibly dangerous?

I am taking approx. 100mg of Mb daily for the last 5 days. This is in powder form........

Is it safe for him to be doing this?

[manic_racetam]

I'm surprised you're seeing blue pee at 4.5mg / day, perhaps it's accumulating in your liver/ kidneys,not being fully absorbed and finding its way out in clumps. :P That, or you are slowly turning into a smurf.

I noticed that the dosage required seemed to fluctuate.. It's that or perhaps my 3 month old second stage solution is either oxized or no longer adequately mixed and the dosages were variable. I had 30mcg the other day and it hit me like a 2mg dose - felt like I had a blunt metal claw being pulled slowly from the top of my head to the back. Not partiuclarly painful, just irritating.

I did see a solid blue dot floating in the glass water, I suspect that was probably the reason.

Every time I stop taking MB, I end up with mild fever and irritability for a day or more, depending on what dosage I was taking.

I figured it out Mr. Happy. The reason you get such strong effects is because this bottle of blue liquid was likely sent/sold to you by Morpheus. It's the blue pill in liquid form. Luckily it isn't Methylene Red-Pill or you'd be screwed

Attached Files

•  morpheus.jpg   34.26KB   28 downloads

Edited by manic_racetam, 20 October 2011 - 05:27 PM.

[manic_racetam]

Still makes your pee blue though.

That means it's getting re-oxidized in the body. Well, it's probably better to ingest it in the reduced form so you don't use up your endogenous antioxidants reducing it.

Another interesting thing, I take 4.5mg/day now and my pee seems to be blue only rarely. Pretty sure it used to be blue more often.

Not sure what that means.

The fluctuation of pee color is the effect of largest mystery to me. I had little or no coloration below 10mgs, but when I got to the 60mg dose my pee wasn't as blue as when I took 25-30mgs. Those are daily dosages. Seems to take about 12 hours for it to filter out in urine as well. Also, leucoMB seemed to cause darker-blue urine than plain MB in solution...

Weird stuff, but I'm through experimenting in high doses. I was able to quit cold turkey after about 2 weeks of consistent dosing over 10mgs. Had a definitely noticeable depressing effect the first two days, but L-Tyrosine supplementation at 1-2gs per day alleviated most of the withdrawals (warning on the tyrosine bottle suggested against using it in conjunction with MAO-I's but I didn't notice higher blood pressure or anything, so in my case it seems to have been fine).

[Baten]

From earlier: "for a 65Kg person, 1625mg is the dose that NOS activity increases"
Also, isochroma said something about up to 200mg being safe, if I recall correctly.

I also recall protective measures for the skin in laboratory uses of undiluted methylene blue. I think this was undiluted liquid methylene blue though.
I can only imagine that the powder should be handled with equal care.

Edited by Baten, 20 October 2011 - 06:12 PM.

[MrHappy]

All the good stuff happened at the lower dose.

[thedevinroy]

Never seen pee blue at 5mg beyond a hair, and never when taking 500mg Vitamin C. Maybe that's the perfect ratio: 1/100?

You also might be having vitamin B3 deficiency if you keep getting blue pee from it. It replaces NAD+ function in the mitochondria as an ion transporter. See if supplementing with B3 changes the color clear. I take Picamilon ... probably 30mg to 90mg a day, which is plenty of niacin. Could be why I don't see blue pee... either that or all the tea or coffee and vitamins I eat are just great antioxidants.

[Logan]

All the good stuff happened at the lower dose.

Then why not stick with the lower dose for a while and see what happens???

[Logan]

I never saw blue urine

[MrHappy]

Because something about it just doesn't feel right for me. Like - why do I get fevers when coming off it? Seems like my body is cleaning it up.

Plus, ultimately, it was just a distraction compared to the uridine, alpha-gpc, dha combo. This was what I was looking for when I tried MB.

My current supplements are:
Uridine, a-gpc, flaxseed oil
And in the evenings, bacopa, grapeseed extract, magnesium, calcium, zinc, vit b12, vit c and sometimes other vitamins, etc, as needed.

I feel the best I have in a long time, my head is clear and my cognitive function is improving daily. I don't feel drained or brain-fogged, which is important for my demanding work.

Can't really ask for more than that! Life is good!

[rwac]

Like - why do I get fevers when coming off it?

MB actually reduces the efficiency of mitochondria, and protects them. I would guess that your mitochondria are suddenly running at full speed when coming off, increasing your metabolism until they can adjust

[MrHappy]

I thought MB promotes COX IV function, though? I saw 30% in one study.

[niner]

MB actually reduces the efficiency of mitochondria, and protects them. I would guess that your mitochondria are suddenly running at full speed when coming off, increasing your metabolism until they can adjust

I thought it increased the efficiency by facilitating electron transport...?

I thought MB promotes COX IV function, though? I saw 30% in one study.

But at what dose? I have to say, a fever is a pretty weird side effect to have when coming off. I guess it would make sense if you were on opiates for a long time, and came off that. Was this a measured fever, with a thermometer? Or did you just feel feverish?

[MrHappy]

Feels rather like flu, clammy, elevated temperature, irritability.

Also, sidenote: just to to warn anyone else who is contemplating following my footsteps on uridine supplements, please see the warning in the other thread about maintaining sufficient Vitamin B9 (folate) and B12, if you aren't getting uridine from natural food sources.
This PSA is brought to you by QuantumTubule (thanks again).

Edited by MrHappy, 21 October 2011 - 12:12 PM.

[rwac]

I thought MB promotes COX IV function, though? I saw 30% in one study.

I thought it increased the efficiency by facilitating electron transport...?

Basically, the normal Electron Transport Chain goes through NADH, Complex I to Complex III (via CoQ10) and finally to Complex IV (via cytochrome C).
At each stage, 1 H+ is transported which results in formation of 1 ATP per complex and 3ATP overall.

On the other hand Methylene Blue bypasses complexes I & III and directly oxidizes cyt-c to run Complex IV, resulting in production of a single ATP instead of three. This prevents formation of free radicals and is thus mitoprotective.

This is my understanding of the matter. Yes, exposure to methylene blue actually increases concentration of complex iv.

Edited by rwac, 21 October 2011 - 02:28 PM.

[Logan]

Because something about it just doesn't feel right for me. Like - why do I get fevers when coming off it? Seems like my body is cleaning it up.

I hear ya. Maybe just try super low doses if you have not already, like 10 to 50 mcgs. You might not notice any sort of withdrawal or rebound effect.

[Logan]

MB actually reduces the efficiency of mitochondria, and protects them. I would guess that your mitochondria are suddenly running at full speed when coming off, increasing your metabolism until they can adjust

I thought it increased the efficiency by facilitating electron transport...?

I thought MB promotes COX IV function, though? I saw 30% in one study.

But at what dose? I have to say, a fever is a pretty weird side effect to have when coming off. I guess it would make sense if you were on opiates for a long time, and came off that. Was this a measured fever, with a thermometer? Or did you just feel feverish?

I don't know niner, MB is pretty potent stuff for a long of people. A hangover effect that felt like fever is something I feel I have experienced. But I'm on Zoloft, so maybe that is playing a role in my response, I'm sure it is. Then again, I'm ridiculously sensitive to all sorts of shit. I drink a cup of decaf and it throws me off sometimes.

[QuantumTubule]

Ok, I have been using Methylene Blue for 1 Month. I have found that taking 1.5mg 3xed has significantly improved my performance at my work which is Tunnel boring(and challenging).
Improved Energy
Basic skill set improved
Logical planning skills improved
Increased Stress Tolerance, this is really helpful as stress sometimes compromises my performance at others tasks.
Deriving excitment from environment

Reason for Dosing 1.5mg
I couldnt get useful pharamkenetics, however i arrived at an extrapolation that this dose would peak at about 1 micromole in a 110kg male. This I feel is the optimal tradeoff peak concentration based on cellular sesence models because at 20% 02 0.1micromole optimal while at 4% 02 1 micromole was equivalent to 0.1micromole in extending number of replications. Therefore hyperoxic body parts(skin,Lungs) will be exposed to a very mild toxicity(not really the right word), while normoxic(5% 02) body parts will be start near the top of the optimal concentration and will decline from there, leaving a sufficient window of drug effect. I also convert methylene blue to lecuomethylene blue.

I find It combines nicely with intranasal Q10,Acetylcarantine, sulbutiamine, highdose Riboflavin, I firmly believe Tocotrienol is required with MB. I also believe that it is important that PPQ is supplemented with Methylene blue, as glucose dehydrogenase deficiency is contraindicated with methylene blue and PPQ allegdly is essential for the function of GD in some life forms.

My only complaint regarding MB is that it appears to comprise circulation, my feet get cold, erections are average, I added L-citriuline to compensate for this.

Also i always have one hour of aerobic exercise per day, which compliment MB

[rwac]

I find It combines nicely with intranasal Q10,Acetylcarantine, sulbutiamine, highdose Riboflavin, I firmly believe Tocotrienol is required with MB. I also believe that it is important that PPQ is supplemented with Methylene blue, as glucose dehydrogenase deficiency is contraindicated with methylene blue and PPQ allegdly is essential for the function of GD in some life forms.

My only complaint regarding MB is that it appears to comprise circulation, my feet get cold, erections are average, I added L-citriuline to compensate for this.

The downside of tocotrienols is that it will reduce cholesterol, and consequently reduce hormone levels like say testosterone. You could try lutein instead. Have you tried creatine?

[chrono]

I just finished re-rendering the big MB threads; I'm bumping them all so everyone will know where they are.

Methylene Blue Experiences
Methylene Blue Dosing and Products
Methylene Blue Research
Methylene Blue and MAO Inhibition

These topics are interrelated, but we should try our best to keep discussions as topically segregated as realistically possible, to make the information easier to find in the future.

[medievil]

Very anxiolytic... seems to replace GBL as an anxiolytic combined with a stim in doses of 1-2mg, also feel definite cogntive enhancement.

Removing stimulant anxiety this stuff owns gbl and benzo's by far, i feel zero anxiety wich is extremely unusual when i'm on stims, still too early to make conclusions but i'm very impressed so far.

I take 1-2mg 4 times a day.

Edited by medievil, 26 October 2011 - 09:38 PM.

[Thorsten3]

^Haha Medievil back on ImmInst! Good to see you back here you know it's your home! You'll be eating pears next then moving on to carb restriction and then giving up the drugs

Seriously though I know how bad your anxiety is so for you to say that Methylene has this effect for you interests me quite a bit. I think I'm going to get this blue stuff to see what the fuss is about. Cheap enough so there isn't anything to loose. I always found with Piracetam that when it really worked it would be anxiolytic because I felt able to deal with shit more effectively (but that could have been its NEergic effects maybe helping my ADHD somewhat) so maybe methylene wouldn't be the same and you are talking about it specifically for stimulant induced anxiety, not anxiety necessarily related to ADHD. Fuck it I am going to try it anyway. I have previous experience with curcumin (another MAOI) and that was a pretty miserable experience. Maybe this would be different? I wonder if it negatively effects libido?

I am still clueless about it though. So, it has health benefits but it also rivals the racetams to a certain degree with enhancing cognitive function?

Edited by Thorsten2, 26 October 2011 - 10:44 PM.

[medievil]

I disappeared from several fora because i felt to anxious to post on them, thats how bad i was declining, the improvement noted with methylene blue is one of the reasons i'm back here, id definatly recommend it mate.

[anomalous3]

I may be ending my experiment with MB. Something just does not feel right- more flat than I would like to be, feel more agitated than usual, experiencing jaw tension more than usual, have a weird hang over like headache, and I seem to go through some kind of withdrawal where I feel worse after it wears off.

I'm taking about 20 mcg a day. Maybe I will go lower, but I just don't see the point right now. I had high hopes for MB, but it just seems to be another high maintenance dosing agent that is not worth the potential for instability.

I've definitely noticed that MB intensifies actual hangovers. I haven't noticed any negative effects from it alone myself, other than it intensifying my allergic reactions. Actually, it seems to simply intensify both positive and negative side effects of just about everything, so I can see it being a double-edged sword. When I treat my body right it seems to add to the improvement, but if I do anything stupid like drink too much then it seems to backfire a bit harder.

[medievil]

DAY2
Feelings of extra energy and wellbeing continue, didnt take any stimulant yet as i feel quite "stimmed up" in a completely differend way, it feels somewhat simular to the megadose piracetam and fish oil combo, interesting is that isochroma on imminst has stated a simular thing. I do feel cognitively enhanced but havent been doing any tests, focus is improved i can much easier read trough a whole page of text, and can at the same time filter out background information (like ppl talking to me, i can stay focussed if i want).

[amark]

Well your high dosage MB guinea pig is reporting!

First i really want to voice my appreciation towards those people who voiced concern for my health in regards to handling mb in powder form. I feel that the contraindications in handling and breathing are directed towards those who handle large amounts of mb. Still it makes perfect sense to be careful. Still unless I sneeze or suddenly feel an irrational urge t chug the stuff my airborne exposure is minimal. i have had blue staining on my fingers and even tiny amounts on a surface that could be overlooked can create quite a dye stain with water. I do make a point of washing my hands when staining has occurred ( I know I need to go buy some latex gloves). i have not noticed any irritation or any issues at all when my fingers/ hands have been stained.

Someone asked why I purchased the powder form was just to try to feel more secure in the purity of the substance. I knew i would be taking a substantial amount of the stuff for this experiment so I felt i needed a reliable source of the stuff. That's it.

As i mentioned I am mainly concerned with bi polar depression which i would wish on my enemies. so my reporting is from that POV.

OK here goes: The stuff does seem to have an effect. Even when depressed it manifested itself in a less severe form. View it as a pendulum where the the swing is limited on one side, a desired effect.

I was taking approx 100 mg per day but have found that 2x that amount split into two daily doses seems to work better for me. I ask your forbearance since i am making these judgments about the affects on my affliction using the same brain that is the subject of the experiment. I try to be as objective as possible but I understand that I am using a broken ruler to create my blueprints. i accept this but I acknowledge that my objectivity is limited. It's chemical gonzo journalism. No matter what I do think that it's funny that I am taking something that makes me blue because I am blue.

Imterestignly it and Lyrica have both been shown to affect calcium channel activity. These things seem to be the most effective substances that I have taken for my particular malady.

So no big side effects except the blue urine. In reference to other peoples experiences. I have found my urine will vary and does not stay a deep blue. I can only surmise my body uses it in a certain manner that delays that side effect or that some things I eat might also make a difference. No question of it turning my pee blue.

What is weird is how fast my hair lost to male pattern baldness is coming back. The hair line seems to be regulatory retaking lost territory. My wife is keeping track and she is saying stuff like maybe you won't be bald again. What I invite speculation on is what other things are happening in my body? Is my function improving or am I going to die young with a hairline like Ron Reagan or even worse his loss of self. I am going to ask for a full blood screen on my next Dr visit and i will post it here in a redacted version.

i can't wait to have to give a urine sample!