492 replies to this topic

[manic_racetam]

Is there a source online anywhere where you can get pharmaceutical grade Methylene blue?

Check the dosing and product thread. Haven't looked but there may be one there

[chziime]

So, why is it necessary to supplement mixed tocopherols with MB, as a couple of you have stated? I remember one both even suggested creatine (instead of E?) and lutein... I have creatine monohydrate and tocopherols are somewhat expensive. What is the reasoning behind all this?

But a report:

1.2mg of MB yesterday evening seemed to put me slightly at ease as time went on, but at a point I was quite irritable.
60mcg this morning at 6:30am, before a photography gig, ensured that I was relatively on the top of my game, for such an early time. I also wasn't nearly as tired as I would normally be sleeping from just 12-6 (I'd normally be near braindead). I'm about to go to the gym and see how this small dose affects my performance!

[Godot]

There have been some mentions of effects at extremely low mcg doses of MB, but little followup. I figured there was no harm in starting at 1mcg doses, and so have been taking 1mcg sublingually every 3 to 4 hours for the past three days.

My expectation leading up to this experiment was that I would not experience any easily perceptible effects from MB at mcg doses period, and certainly not at this extremely low level.

I am shocked by the plainly evident biological and likely neurological activity of this stuff at 1mcg. Onset of effects ramps up between approx. 10-20 minutes following administration and lasts about 4-5 hours. Below is a summary of my notes from the past three days:

I've noticed increased heart rate, an energized feeling, an unusual 'fuzzy' sensation in the head and extremities, clearheadedness, increased feelings of interest, increased productivity, improved mood, increased enthusiasm, decrease in stress response, improved ease of getting out of bed upon waking, increased vividness of internal imagery and auditory representations, slightly decreased social inhibition, increased social comfort and confidence, increased verbal fluidity, slightly improved ability to attend to multiple stimuli, marked improvement in ability to perceive and respond to social cues in real time (decrease in after-the-fact rumination about what I 'should have said'), substantially increased appetite/frequent hunger and thirst, mild GI upset, and substantially greater sensitivity to alcohol hangovers.

My perceived increase in metabolism (hunger, energy) has been accompanied by spontaneous weight loss, approx. 1.5 pounds over 3 days, from 161lbs to 159.5.

One of the most unusual qualities of MB at this dosage that I've noticed is the 'buzzy' feeling it produces, which is similar in nature to the feeling induced by very low doses of serotonergic hallucinogens.

I am troubled by how poorly I seem to process alcohol with MB in my system, though. Last night I had three drinks and woke up feeling terrible. This was the second time in three days that I had seen this effect. I have no physiological explanation for this. I found one study which hypothesized that MB would improve alcohol metabolism in humans since it does in rats and in hepatic cells, but it found no effect: http://alcalc.oxford...t/35/5/424.full. Interestingly, readministration of MB in the morning clears up most hangover symptoms.

Has anyone else tried MB in 1mcg doses for a few days?

Edited by Godot, 12 May 2012 - 07:59 PM.

[health_nutty]

Are you sure you are taking 1mcg and not 1mg? How did you measure out 1mcg?

[Godot]

Well this is interesting. I went back over my math...

I started with a 1% solution of MB - http://www.amazon.co...36947267&sr=8-1

That should be 1g per 100mL, or 10mg/mL. I got 20 drops per mL, so one drop contains about 500mcg of MB.

I diluted 1 drop of this in 50mL of water, yielding a 10mcg/mL solution.

I then combined 1mL of this with 9mL of water, for a solution that I incorrectly believed was 1mcg per drop, but which was actually only 1mcg per mL.

Therefore, the effects I noted above are at just 50-100 nanograms!

Placebo? Very possibly, but I've not been prone to such pronounced placebo effects in the past.

I did some searching to see if there are any known drugs active at such low doses, and came across this curious paper on the effects of ultra low (ng) doses of morphine, naloxone, and ethanol on state-dependent memory: http://www.ncbi.nlm....ubmed/15864068/

The researchers found that both naloxone and ethanol produced opposite effects at nanogram doses compared to milligram doses. They conclude:

A review of the literature indicates that, for several drugs and chemicals, the effects of nanogram doses are the opposite of the effects of milligrams, because different doses have different sites as well as mechanisms of actions. In conclusion, from the above results one may suggest that, in determination of the dose-response of at least some drugs, the study of the effects of doses much lower than two orders of magnitude of the minimum effective dose are warranted.

In reading over the experiences posted here by users of MB at 50-120mcg, I noticed that relaxation and even somnolence was a common, whereas I experienced activation at 50-100mcg.

I'm going to try MB at 50mcg next. I'd love to see some other people try it at 50 nanograms, to see if their experiences are similar to mine.

[SuperjackDid_]

Interesting experience ,i going to try it out too for 1mcg,i 'm micro dose responder ,regular dose 60Mcg give me nasty depression ,panic attack.

[Godot]

It is also noteworthy that I seem to have experienced a rebound effect after discontinuing MB. This was after taking 50 nanograms sublingually every 3-4 hours for 3 days.

I felt kind of sick, lightheaded and with poor appetite, for the whole next day after concluding the experiment. There have been some viruses going around, and I could have picked one up (I typically don’t get all the way sick, because I take 100mg of lactoferrin 2x daily as soon as I feel anything coming on.) The second day after discontinuation, today, I feel back to normal. Only one other user of methylene blue has reported hangover effects as far as I’m aware (MrHappy), and he was taking 1-4mg daily for several weeks at a time. This could be a fluke; I’m not sure.

[rwac]

It is also noteworthy that I seem to have experienced a rebound effect after discontinuing MB. This was after taking 50 nanograms sublingually every 3-4 hours for 3 days.

I felt kind of sick, lightheaded and with poor appetite, for the whole next day after concluding the experiment. There have been some viruses going around, and I could have picked one up (I typically don't get all the way sick, because I take 100mg of lactoferrin 2x daily as soon as I feel anything coming on.) The second day after discontinuation, today, I feel back to normal. Only one other user of methylene blue has reported hangover effects as far as I'm aware (MrHappy), and he was taking 1-4mg daily for several weeks at a time. This could be a fluke; I'm not sure.

FWIW, I saw the rebound effect too, on probably a 250mcg dose. I just felt a bit off for a couple of days after stopping it.

Edited by rwac, 14 May 2012 - 03:35 PM.

[Godot]

Thanks for your response, rwac. How long had you been taking MB before experiencing a rebound?

[rwac]

Thanks for your response, rwac. How long had you been taking MB before experiencing a rebound?

A fairly long time, I can't remember. Maybe weeks or months.

Edited by rwac, 14 May 2012 - 05:44 PM.

[Godot]

I started with a 1% solution of MB - http://www.amazon.co...36947267&sr=8-1

That should be 1g per 100mL, or 10mg/mL.

Just to double-check, can anyone verify that I'm interpreting the quantity of MB in a 1% w/v solution correctly?

[NMDAstronaut]

Hello everyone!

I've been following this thread for a while now. Today is my fist MB experience : )

This morning I used what I am hoping was a standard dropper (50ul) diluted 2.3% soln 1:20 into 19drops H20 giving a concentration of 1150ug/20 drops took one drop of that (~57.5ug) of that in a short glass of water.

I was feeling quite anxious and depressed when woke this morning as is not unusual for me. About a minute after drinking this I noticed marked reduction in anx and dep. A nice calm feeling "clean headed" as I've heard others describe. It appears that from what I've read most people are taking 60ug 2-3 times per day.

One thing that is attractive to me about MB is that in addition to MAOI at high dosing, it also seems to have potential intracellular 2nd messenger effects via NOS-NO-cGMP and mitochondrial effects. This is nice as I'm hoping to cycle supplements with different mechanisms of action to avoid tolerance.

One thing I'm a bit concerned about though is the effect on GI flora. Especially given that some studies have shown positive impact on mood and reduction in anxiety with probiotics.

Anyone been taking this stuff regularly for more than a few months? If so do you cycle it or take it daily? Tolerance? What dose works best for you? Any GI issues?

One more thing, my final dilution is only slightly tinted blue but still I figure I should start drinking from a straw. I try to poor in the back of my mouth when drinking but I know some will ultimately get on teeth. So far today they look fine but wondering about over time. Anyone getting blue teeth?

Edited by NMDAstronaut, 09 June 2012 - 07:42 PM.

[smithx]

Also of note, it seems that the 60 mcg is so low that it may classify as a sort of homeopathic dose.

Not necessarily.

60mcg of LSD would produce a very noticeable effect, from what I have read.

[Sholrak]

Hi everyone. I want to try this (apparently) good shit so I'll buy some MB

Where can I get it? Pharmacies, aquarium stores, pet shops? I wonder if what you can pick in some pet shop will be the same Methylene Blue you get on a pharmacy. What tools could I else need to take it? About how much it costs (in dollars/euros)?

[mitomutant]

Thanks for your response, rwac. How long had you been taking MB before experiencing a rebound?

A fairly long time, I can't remember. Maybe weeks or months.

rwac,
From the top of my head I remember that you had some kind on mitochondrial dysfunction. is it so ? I was thinking about MB to treat my mito dysfunction and would love to hear your experience with it.
Thanks

[rwac]

Thanks for your response, rwac. How long had you been taking MB before experiencing a rebound?

A fairly long time, I can't remember. Maybe weeks or months.

rwac,
From the top of my head I remember that you had some kind on mitochondrial dysfunction. is it so ? I was thinking about MB to treat my mito dysfunction and would love to hear your experience with it.
Thanks

I don't know. All I know is I had some type of CFS, and MB helped me a lot with focus and such. Atleast initially, colors became more vivid, etc.
Definitely worth a shot.

Hmm, What sort of dysfunction do you have?

[mitomutant]

Thanks for your response, rwac. How long had you been taking MB before experiencing a rebound?

A fairly long time, I can't remember. Maybe weeks or months.

rwac,
From the top of my head I remember that you had some kind on mitochondrial dysfunction. is it so ? I was thinking about MB to treat my mito dysfunction and would love to hear your experience with it.
Thanks

I don't know. All I know is I had some type of CFS, and MB helped me a lot with focus and such. Atleast initially, colors became more vivid, etc.
Definitely worth a shot.

Hmm, What sort of dysfunction do you have?

I have a full blown mitochondrial myopathy. The final diagnosis was genetic. It came out as a single-deletion mutation in my mitochondrial DNA. This deletion makes some of my mitochondria to malfunction (less ATP, more ROS). Good thing is that my phenotype is CPEO, which is probably the mildest form. My extra ocular muscles are severely affected, but that´s about it. I have a more or less normal life, but I have problems with energy levels from time to time and my recovery ability from workouts is less than optimal; not anything near as PEM, but similar.

I will give MB a shot. Just ordered from Ebay. Your strategy - starting very low and upping the dose - is the way to go.

In case you have not tried, 100mg Uniquinol tid was a game changer for me. I was able to start doing some serious weight training and my energy levels went from CFS-like all day to some energy "crisis" from time to time. Be sure to get it from epic4health (Tishcon brand). Hands down the best.

[rwac]

In case you have not tried, 100mg Uniquinol tid was a game changer for me. I was able to start doing some serious weight training and my energy levels went from CFS-like all day to some energy "crisis" from time to time. Be sure to get it from epic4health (Tishcon brand). Hands down the best.

Ubiquinol/Ubiquinone did absolutely nothing for me. Just made me feel a touch worse.

I wonder if a heat lamp might help you (less blue light, more orange/red/IR).

[mitomutant]

In case you have not tried, 100mg Uniquinol tid was a game changer for me. I was able to start doing some serious weight training and my energy levels went from CFS-like all day to some energy "crisis" from time to time. Be sure to get it from epic4health (Tishcon brand). Hands down the best.

Ubiquinol/Ubiquinone did absolutely nothing for me. Just made me feel a touch worse.

I wonder if a heat lamp might help you (less blue light, more orange/red/IR).

ahh, sorry to hear that ubiquinol didn´t work for you. 8 inmortals from dragon herbs also worked for me, but it was way more expensive than ubiquinol and the results were similar.

Never heard about heat lamp. Any paper at hand that I can read ?

[rwac]

Never heard about heat lamp. Any paper at hand that I can read ?

Well, the research is more directed towards lasers and LED sources of monochromatic light.
http://www.ncbi.nlm....6814/#s002title

I'd say it's worth a shot to see if a broad spectrum light will help.

[mitomutant]

Never heard about heat lamp. Any paper at hand that I can read ?

Well, the research is more directed towards lasers and LED sources of monochromatic light.
http://www.ncbi.nlm....6814/#s002title

I'd say it's worth a shot to see if a broad spectrum light will help.

Not sure about its possible practical use, but a damn good read:

Once cytochrome C oxidase is stimulated by light, electron transport is accelerated, leading to increased ATP production

The mitochondrial electron transport chain no doubt shares an evolutionary relationship with the photosynthetic electron transport chain

Need to dig into this. Thanks for the pointer.

[MrHappy]

For the heck of it, I decided to mix up a new solution of MB yesterday, from my 2nd bottle of the exact same brand/expiry as my first experiment last year. Perhaps a slightly different hue.

So far, this time around - and I don't know if it's a difference in quality between the bottles, or just nearly a year of uridine has me covered, but at 1mg, which previously gave me a mix of good and bad effects, I've had a completely different experience so far.

No tight/sore neck. No 'euphoria' like state for the first week, although perhaps an increase in mental energy.

I'm going to have to dilute another solution from the first bottle and make a comparison.

[Sholrak]

Hi everyone. I want to try this (apparently) good shit so I'll buy some MB

Where can I get it? Pharmacies, aquarium stores, pet shops? I wonder if what you can pick in some pet shop will be the same Methylene Blue you get on a pharmacy. What tools could I else need to take it? About how much it costs (in dollars/euros)?

Bump!

Can anyone give some help?

[Metrodorus]

In the USA you can buy it here:
http://www.athletici...19_p_46286.html
Read the thread for dosage indications.

[bacopacabana]

Have tried Methylene Blue on 5 days. Basically did a 1/400 dilution to the Kordon product, but at any rate my doses have been around 3 mcg, about 1/20th of the 60 mcg nootropic dose.

With one 3 mcg drop I definitely felt something, more energy, perhaps a slight drugged feeling (not good). And I do not find myself particularly susceptible to placebo effects, I think I've tried too many things in my day to get too excited about anything. Tried cannabis a couple of times with this, I would have to say there is something there, something vaguely psychedelic happening to the consciousness that is not normally present. Also used with psilocybin a couple of times but did not notice anything unusual.

After the first day, I tried 4 drops the next day, for me this produced undesirable effects, kind of too much energy. Took a few days off and went back to one dose a day, but then on the 3rd day in a row I noticed an uncomfortable energy along with some nausea and no appetite.

I take a fair amount of stuff, mainly life extension stuff as opposed to nootropics, but I do take 800mg piracetam each morning. For me when I was first taking piracetam daily, after some time (weeks?) I began to really notice its effects, and sometimes even that 800mg seemed like a bit much, although when I was first experimenting I took some big attack doses, and after many months I am very used to it. I find it difficult in general to take just about anything stimulative, and it's a pretty safe bet that I am a slow acetylator.

Currently I'd have to drop the dose lower if I want to continue to experiment.

[mitomutant]

Hi everyone. I want to try this (apparently) good shit so I'll buy some MB

Where can I get it? Pharmacies, aquarium stores, pet shops? I wonder if what you can pick in some pet shop will be the same Methylene Blue you get on a pharmacy. What tools could I else need to take it? About how much it costs (in dollars/euros)?

Bump!

Can anyone give some help?

Glad to see you are from Spain. I bought MB in ebay.co.uk. Here. Good price and fast delivery.

[Lyle Dennis]

Here is some new information about using MB to prolong lifespan including interviews with lead authors:

http://extremelongev...rease-lifespan/

[Godot]

I dosed MB at 50mcg TID for 3 days. I experienced some increase in energy, but the effect was qualitatively different than my previous experience at nanogram doses. Oddly, the effect was more subtle at mcg doses. I experienced mild headaches, some improvement in focus and concentration. None of the wiry feeling I got at 50ug.

The major problem that I had with MB at 50mcg remained the same as at the lower dose: withdrawal. After just a few days of use, I discontinued MB and experienced a full day of lethargy and mental sluggishness.

I can't really make sense of this problem biologically. Maybe there is a nutrient I'm lacking that is being rapidly depleted by the increased mitochondrial activity?

[mitomutant]

Simple and easy to understand intro to MB.

A quick read seems to indicate an optimal dose around 5-7 mg/kg (that´s milligrams to avoid confusion) for rodents. This gives around 25-30 mg for a 70kg human. I believe all the referenced studies are single-dose MB (some oral, some IV)

Big mismatch with the micrograms - or even nanograms - doses you are all experiencing.

[Adamzski]

Glad to see you are from Spain. I bought MB in ebay.co.uk. Here. Good price and fast delivery.

That MB is expensive, 115 euro.. I would get much better placebo effects if I was paying so much....

Do you know if I can buy 1g of high quality MB somewhere? Or would you sell 1g?