19 replies to this topic

[superM]

Hi,

I was hoping I could get some help classifying some symptoms, and possibly solving them.

I've been having trouble speaking recently, whether its on the phone, or in public. I don't know if its anxiety or brain fog, but I'll have difficulty actually saying the words, while knowing what I may want to say. I don't stutter per say, but I just have trouble speaking properly.

This is new, and I'm in my late 20s. It's been happening now for a month or two.

What I'm taking:
Piracetam
Picamilon
ALCAR
Fish Oil+B100

Is it possible anything in my small stack is causing this? Any thoughts on a resolution?

I don't understand how or why this is happening, especially when I never had these issues before.

[pycnogenol]

I wouldn't think a small stack would cause that. How much of each are you taking per day?

[superM]

Piracetam 1.6G
Picamilon 150mg
ALCAR 300mg
Fish Oil 900mg

I thought the stack would be anxiolytic, but I'm wondering where the brain fog may stem from.

[QuantumTubule]

This is a serious occurance, I would terminate using Pic and Pir immediately and maybe ALCAR. A washout period may restore function, hopefully this is caused by exccessive GABA. Do you have any speculation about underlying cognitive problems that you have experienced in your life.

[superM]

This is a serious occurance, I would terminate using Pic and Pir immediately and maybe ALCAR. A washout period may restore function, hopefully this is caused by exccessive GABA. Do you have any speculation about underlying cognitive problems that you have experienced in your life.

So I actually began the Picamilon recently, in hopes to combat this occurrence. Doesn't seem to have worked so far. I may have had mild anxiety in the past, but nothing to this magnitude. Piracetam I've been on for about 1yr.

Any chance that alcohol can cause this?

[QuantumTubule]

Alcohol toxicity could, either chronic or acute. If you have a drinking problem this may be the cause, for instance this may cause thiamine depeltion in critical curcuits that actively retrive old memorys, atropy in this curcuit is common in drinkers. It is possiable that Piracetam is causing this therefore i would discontinue use to be on the safe side, I believe Piracetam should only be used acutely for strenous mental work. You arent supplying much infomation regarding symptomology, eg describe the extent of your vocabulary in past v now, describe when this began to occur, what other features occured at a similar time, write a page.
There is however another possiability; is it possiable that you are constructing a past reality were you were more competent than you actaully were?

[Blue22]

Its the Picamilon cut it and youll be fine in a few days!

Edited by Blue22, 24 October 2011 - 09:34 PM.

[superM]

Hello,

Thanks for the replies. I would say it was not an incredibly severe drinking problem (it lasted about 1-2 years), but I've been pretty clean since. Most of the studies on alcohol related brain damage seemed to be for chronic alcoholics, and I don't think that I've done that much damage, but if it could be a cause I would be interested in solutions.

I never noticed any problems in fluency and vocabulary until about 3-4 months ago. When speaking to people on the phone, in person, etc I tend to start blocking words or phrases, so it becomes difficult to speak. I'm fairly certain I "know" what I want to say, but I'm just unable to say it. I may have had very mild anxiety before, but speech was never a problem for me until recently. I'm not sure if this is brain fog, or some kind of anxiety symptom.

I've been taking piracetam as a general nootropic for about a year. It's effects at my current dosage (1.6G) seem to be diminishing, but I've continued it in the hopes that it would help with some of my brain fog and such. I added the picamilon about 2 weeks ago to see if it would solve the speech problems. I'm not sure that it has made any noticeable difference yet.

[noos]

Any chance that alcohol can cause this?

Are you kidding? Of course.

[chrono]

This is a serious occurance, I would terminate using Pic and Pir immediately and maybe ALCAR.

It's possible, but "serious occurrence" was not my first thought. Piracetam has the potential to cause brain fog easily, and it's a pretty benign symptom. Also, I'm not sure about "excessive GABA" as a diagnosis, unless you mean the picamilon.

My first thought would be to drop the picamilon for a few days and see if it helps, though you say these symptoms appeared before you added that. Not really sure why picamilon would help these symptoms in particular, unless they're the result of anxiety. And it seems like you'd be aware if your anxiety suddenly increased enough that your verbal fluency took such a hit.


Piracetam can lose efficacy over time. You may want to take a break from it for a few weeks, to see if it helps restore the effect, or at least take a day or two off every week or so. Piracetam's relationship with choline can also change over time, or there could be tolerance to ALCAR, so it's no longer an effective co-supplement for piracetam (or at least, not at the tiny dose you're taking).

You might then try upping your dose of ALCAR. 300mg is very small. Personally, I take 1.5g with each 800 or 1600mg dose of piracetam. If piracetam is causing brain fog, more ALCAR can help increase your acetylcholine, and ameliorate it. I think 4g/day is the highest amount (extrapolated from rat studies) that didn't increase oxidation, so 3g is pretty spiffy. It should be obvious very quickly if this helps.


I guess it could also be a result of drinking, but the timing seems pretty off if that was a long time ago.

Edited by chrono, 25 October 2011 - 07:34 AM.

[superM]

I took a clean break for about a week to see how things went, and the symptoms persisted.

I will try upping the ALCAR or adding ALPHA GPC.

I think its possible that the decreased verbal fluency comes as a result of anxiety, which is why I tried the picamilon. I'm in the process of switching physicians, so I'll see if I can get some more medical opinions on the issue.

[QuantumTubule]

Dont add alpha GPC for now, its cholinergenic which can decrease processing ability while usually increasing longer term memory.
While Piracetam has this glowing image of non-toxicity, it should be noted that negative effects can still manifest through altering cell signaling. Piracetam alters Glutamate in various manners, which could cause the symptoms that you describe. While Im not directly indicating this cause a washout sounds like a good Idea to me.

[superM]

Hey all,

I've been on Piracetam for 1-2 years now, pretty much nonstop. I was taking around 1.5g along with alcar or alpha gpc. I noticed around 3 months ago, I had some brain fog and anxiety/depression issues so I decided to stop.

I've been off for almost a week now, and I feel things are much clearer (though not still at normal levels), anxiety isn't as bad as before, but still there.

Anyone have an explanation?

Thanks.

[Introspecta]

Did you stop taking the ALCAR and AGPC? Or did you just stop the piracetam. It could be from the Choline. I've never had any good results with choline, I always end up dropping it and going without it. Maybe a little Lecithin thats it.

Also in my experience when i'm off piracetam I definitely feel less clear and not as motivated for reading and learning. Maybe Piracetam just isn't good for you but in my experience it is the total opposite. Maybe try it without choline if you havn't already. I wish i felt better without piracetam because its annoying to have to buy it and cap it and be somewhat dependent on it although not in a negative way.

[superM]

Did you stop taking the ALCAR and AGPC? Or did you just stop the piracetam. It could be from the Choline. I've never had any good results with choline, I always end up dropping it and going without it. Maybe a little Lecithin thats it.

Also in my experience when i'm off piracetam I definitely feel less clear and not as motivated for reading and learning. Maybe Piracetam just isn't good for you but in my experience it is the total opposite. Maybe try it without choline if you havn't already. I wish i felt better without piracetam because its annoying to have to buy it and cap it and be somewhat dependent on it although not in a negative way.

I get headaches without choline. I stopped taking all though.

[Baten]

I actually feel the same. Piracetam did seem to have positive effects on my brain, but once I stopped I felt sharper.

So my state of mind: before piracetam < on piracetam < after piracetam

[JChief]

Goes to show you how different people can be. Piracetam works wonderfully well for what it does. It really shines when you need to do tasks that involve creativity and communication.

[chrono]

Merged this with your previous thread, since it has a lot of info that's probably relevant to this question.

Did you try upping your dose of ALCAR before you added GPC?

[superM]

thanks for the merge.

Chrono: I was either taking one or the other. When the GPC ran out, I switched to ALCAR. Never did both at once. I was also taking a melatonin supp at night (3-6mg with 25-50 mg of Gaba and L Theanine).

Doc said that my pulse was a little high off baseline, so anxiety was definitely pronounced. No official diagnosis for the brain fog, but I don't suppose that's really possible.

I've been off everything this week, and I do notice some increased clarity, but the fog and anxiety is still there.

[chrono]

If you've been taking piracetam and some kind of choline together for a year, it's possible there's some kind of tolerance/dependence issue. I took piracetam and ALCAR twice daily for about 10 months, and I was a little foggy for a few weeks after I stopped. Hopefully it's that, and clarity will continue to increase.

I still find it strange that you're diagnosing your anxiety by indirect indications. If you're anxious enough to increase your heart rate significantly, it should be quite obvious subjectively. Did this just appear out of nowhere? Is it due to life circumstances? Are you trying any methods to decrease it?