95 replies to this topic

[thedevinroy]

GABA-A allosteric modulation is terrible for ADHD, but GABA-A/B/C activation is really good to control hyperactivity. I find Zinc and Ginkgo seem to take away the "sedation" and leave enough GABAergic currents to control hyperactivity.

[longevitynow]

In Chinese Medicine one of the main causes of aging is "Blood Stasis". A lot of this has to do with poor microcirculation. Ginkgo improves microcirculation in the capillaries. I've taken it off and on for years, an MD/PhD Psychiatrist I worked with said it improved her memory. So I take it but can't say I have noticed anything. So it is mainly one of those things I take because I think the research is adequately strong for taking it as an Anti-Aging agent (by maintaining microcirculation). As I don't do my aerobics often enough or intensely enough it is hopefully maintaining my good circulation (measured by numerous devices as 7-12 years younger than my age). I have done light aerobics most of my adult life, but not usually daily.

[Luminosity]

Good points. And Ginkgo + Gotu Kola helped my memory, vision and the looks of my face in ways that exercise never did, personally. I guess that's microcirculation.

[thedevinroy]

Ginkgo and fish oil make a pretty crazy combo. I get a little speedy from it. Anyone else notice a mental stimulation from the combo?

[noos]

I don't have problems with dreams anymore. Spiritual cleanse took care of that. I generally don't have a problem going to sleep, especially with the Gotu Kola in my daily regime.

Sorry if OT but can you please tell me what you mean with Spiritual cleanse?

[spider]

Probably, spiritual activities that make the mind clear and more peaceful.

[thedevinroy]

I don't have problems with dreams anymore. Spiritual cleanse took care of that. I generally don't have a problem going to sleep, especially with the Gotu Kola in my daily regime.

Sorry if OT but can you please tell me what you mean with Spiritual cleanse?

Spider is right (in a sense). A spiritual cleanse ultimately results in a belief of the cleansing, which gives power or a doorway to the remedy. Faith is spiritual strength, and however you gather that, is up to you. I suggest rooting the faith in something stronger than yourself, so that you have something for your faith yo hold on to.

What I did was explained the issue, found the cause, and then prayed with my mother, pastor, anyone to come against the spirit and verbally banish it from my room in Jesus name (I am a Christian). Since then, I have yet to see any dark shrouds. The voices have stopped. The demonic faces, dreams, and sleep paralysis have become so rare... literally ONLY when sleeping in a new room and rarely, even at that.

Spiritism can be quite a doorway to some effedupness. Shouldn't have thought my superconscious was cool with that...

Back on topic...

Basically, sleeping is good. Having peace of mind is good. Without those two things, nootropics could hardly work. Do what you have to do, whether that be Jesus-freaking the room or getting moral support or taking a few herbs. It's all good if it works, so don't knock it until you try it.

[medievil]

Br J Pharmacol. 2006 May;148(2):147-53.
The in vivo synaptic plasticity mechanism of EGb 761-induced enhancement of spatial learning and memory in aged rats.

Wang Y, Wang L, Wu J, Cai J.

Source

Section of Brain and Behavior, Kunming Institute of Zoology, Chinese Academy of Sciences, Kunming 650223, Yunnan, PR China.

Abstract

It has not been uniform to date that the Ginkgo biloba extracts enhance cognitive function in aged animals, and the mechanisms of action remain difficult to elucidate. In this study, the Morris water maze task and electrophysiological methods were used to study the effects of repeated daily administration of EGb 761, a standardized extract from G. biloba leaves, on hippocampal-dependent spatial learning and memory and synaptic plasticity of aged rats. The adult subjects perform the Morris water maze task better than aged rats, as a cellular mechanism, the hippocampal long-term potentiation (LTP) elicited from adult animals is robust (139.29+/-2.7%). In addition, the spatial learning and memory of aged rats that had been fed on an EGb 761-supplemented diet (60 mg kg(-1)) for 30 days were significantly better than those of control aged rats. The magnitude of LTP (116.63+/-3.6%) recorded in vivo from the hippocampus CA1 area of aged rats was significantly enhanced by EGb 761 (60 mg kg(-1)). In conclusion, the spatial learning and memory of aged rats is worse than that of young subjects, and EGb 761, acting as a 'cognitive enhancer', has benefit on synaptic plasticity and cognition in aged rats. The present data further confirmed that enhancement of synaptic plasticity of the hippocampus might ameliorate the deficit in spatial learning and memory in aged rats.

Interesting potentiates LTP while antagonizing the glycine site.

[thedevinroy]

Interesting potentiates LTP while antagonizing the glycine site.

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/14568560

Inhibition of hippocampal LTP by ginkgolide B is mediated by its blocking action on PAF rather than glycine receptors.

Platelet-activating factor (PAF), a biologically active lipid (1-O-alkyl-2-acetyl-sn-glycero-3-phosphoholine), is identified in different regions of brain, including hippocampus. Specific PAF-activated receptors (PAFRs) are expressed in corresponding brain areas. PAF has been proposed to be a retrograde messenger of long-term potentiation (LTP): the antagonist of PAFRs, ginkgolide B (or BN52021) prevents induction of LTP. Recently it has been found that ginkgolide B is also an efficient blocker of the glycine receptor (GlyR) operated chloride channels (IC(50)=270+/-10 nM in hippocampal pyramidal neurons). The question is as follows: is the alteration of LTP by BN52021 due to the PAF antagonism or to the inhibition of glycine-gated chloride channels? We have studied the effects of ginkgolides B and J on LTP induced in the CA1 area of rat hippocampus. Ginkgolide J which is the weakest blocker of PAFR (IC(50)=54 microM, as compared to IC(50)=2.5 microM for ginkgolide B) inhibits GlyR-operated channels with IC(50)=2.0 microM. This assures a convenient concentration window which allows to inhibit GlyR-operated channels without affecting PAFRs. An amount of 5 microM of ginkgolide J did not prevent the induction of LTP, while ginkgolide B (5 microM) completely inhibited this phenomenon. The effect of ginkgolide B on LTP did not alter considerably if GlyRs were blocked by strychnine (2 microM). Strychnine itself had no significant effect on the induction of LTP. Both ginkgolides and strychnine significantly facilitated short-term potentiation (STP). Our data support a hypothesis according to which ginkgolides affect LTP by inhibiting PAFRs.

Glycine antagonism increases STP, but the PAF antagonism is what increases LTP. Glycine antagonism at NMDA sites also does not increase or decrease LTP (http://www.ncbi.nlm..../pubmed/9398588).

[thedevinroy]

Wow... just realized Ginkgo was antifungal. My tinea versicolor came back. It was doing real good, and then today, I caught myself impulsively scratching my arm off. Off to the vitamin store...

Damn, cures vitiligo. MJ coulda used that... http://www.biomedcen.../11/21/abstract

[noos]

Bad review on Ginkgo
https://docs.google....Gingkofinal.pdf
But if it works for some, good.

[thedevinroy]

Bad review on Ginkgo
https://docs.google....Gingkofinal.pdf
But if it works for some, good.

One thing I'd like to add is that a study of the addition of ginkgo as an adjunct therapy for memory is completely nonexistent. As a popular herb, it is often used in particular formulas. Taken with Jiaogulan, an herb that can be taken for blood pressure, I find it improves circulation to my finger tips and head, providing a bit of an "adrenaline" effect of stimulants, without a racing heart beat. I also get this from Fish Oil and Olive Oil, other natural blood thinners.

I imagine most of the noticeable effects of Ginkgo have to do with the increase in microcirculation.

I would really like to see a study of GInkgo done on Alzheimer's patients already taking Aricept or Namenda or both.

Edited by devinthayer, 18 December 2011 - 02:13 AM.

[Luminosity]

I think that Gingko and Gotu Kola would be good for that complaint. I had an elderly friend I would bring them to. They helped with her memory, skin and eyes but because of her brain function problems, she was difficult to help. She got paranoid and decided that I was trying to rip her off and our friendship ended, unfortunately. If I had not tried to bring her herbs, we would probably still be friends, but I'd be watching her decline. I think that Western drugs for memory issues could be entirely replaced with herbs and other wholistic treatments.

[Ark]

Which of the Gingko product would you advise out of these two http://www.drugspro....ry/bilobil.html or http://www.vitasprin...ture-s-way.html

[noos]

I forgot to mention that years ago I read about a ginseng-ginkgo product which maybe was Ginsana or http://www.ginsanapr...s/gincosan.html I believe they have some clinical studies on the combination. Maybe ginkgo plays the role you mention here in this product.

edit:
http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/11140327
http://www.ncbi.nlm..../pubmed/8488188

Edited by noos, 18 December 2011 - 06:05 PM.

[Delafuente]

The Bilobil (drugspro...) looks like its sold as a pharmaceutical. Depending on the country of origin, this could be a very good thing because of the quality control that goes into pharmaceuticals VS supplements.

The Nature's Way Ginkgold (vitasprin...) states that they standardize their supplement according to certain parameters. We have to take their word for it though. We would have to determine whether Nature's Way does in fact standardize their supplements as they say they do.

I also found another Bilobil supplier: napsgear . net

Which of the Gingko product would you advise out of these two http://www.drugspro....ry/bilobil.html or http://www.vitasprin...ture-s-way.html

[Ark]

Bad review on Ginkgo
https://docs.google....Gingkofinal.pdf
But if it works for some, good.

One thing I'd like to add is that a study of the addition of ginkgo as an adjunct therapy for memory is completely nonexistent. As a popular herb, it is often used in particular formulas. Taken with Jiaogulan, an herb that can be taken for blood pressure, I find it improves circulation to my finger tips and head, providing a bit of an "adrenaline" effect of stimulants, without a racing heart beat. I also get this from Fish Oil and Olive Oil, other natural blood thinners.

I imagine most of the noticeable effects of Ginkgo have to do with the increase in microcirculation.

I would really like to see a study of GInkgo done on Alzheimer's patients already taking Aricept or Namenda or both.

Bump to my question above ,
Which of the Gingko product would you advise out of these two http://www.drugspro....ry/bilobil.html or http://www.vitasprin...ture-s-way.html

[thedevinroy]

Bad review on Ginkgo
https://docs.google....Gingkofinal.pdf
But if it works for some, good.

One thing I'd like to add is that a study of the addition of ginkgo as an adjunct therapy for memory is completely nonexistent. As a popular herb, it is often used in particular formulas. Taken with Jiaogulan, an herb that can be taken for blood pressure, I find it improves circulation to my finger tips and head, providing a bit of an "adrenaline" effect of stimulants, without a racing heart beat. I also get this from Fish Oil and Olive Oil, other natural blood thinners.

I imagine most of the noticeable effects of Ginkgo have to do with the increase in microcirculation.

I would really like to see a study of GInkgo done on Alzheimer's patients already taking Aricept or Namenda or both.

Bump to my question above ,
Which of the Gingko product would you advise out of these two http://www.drugspro....ry/bilobil.html or http://www.vitasprin...ture-s-way.html

I take generic 120mg of the 24%/6% extract. Seems to enhance blood flow to my finger tips. Higher doses help verbal fluency and mood. I have no idea if 60mg will even work. Bilobil has studies backing it, but I have yet to see any information on their extract. If it has any significant amount of bilobalide (beyond 2mg), I'd be interested for myself.

[Delafuente]

Whole Foods sells Gingko Biloba 27%/7%. Most of the Ginkgo Biloba in stock is 24%/6%, but one of the Whole Foods brand bottles states "Standardized Gingko Biloba 27/7". It costs about the same as the regular Ginkgo Biloba extract (though the 27/7 comes with less quantity per capsule).

Devinthayer, are there any studies with positive results that used the 27/7 extract?

[Luminosity]

I would stay away from Whole Foods brand supplements. I don't like most of their store brand products in general. I bought some Morning Primrose Oil they sold that smelled and tasted like regular vegetable oil. I don't know if that is what is it supposed to taste like. It didn't do anything good for me but it made my face break out. Their psyllium was o.k. but it would probably be more expensive to counterfeit than to supply the real thing.

Edited by Luminosity, 21 December 2011 - 04:20 AM.

[thedevinroy]

Whole Foods sells Gingko Biloba 27%/7%. Most of the Ginkgo Biloba in stock is 24%/6%, but one of the Whole Foods brand bottles states "Standardized Gingko Biloba 27/7". It costs about the same as the regular Ginkgo Biloba extract (though the 27/7 comes with less quantity per capsule).

Devinthayer, are there any studies with positive results that used the 27/7 extract?

Haha, yeah... http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/11495672 ineffective at enhancing memory, but largely safe.

Better bioavailability... http://www.ncbi.nlm..../pubmed/9434615 but doesn't say at what ratio. I'm assuming, it is probably 10-20% better, since the BioGinkgo is 12.5% on average higher in glycosides.

Just go for the 120mg of the 24/6 or 100mg of the 27/7. Otherwise, you might as well pop two at a time.

[longevitynow]

i heard ginkgo was good for peripheral neuropathy and recommended it to a friend of my mother. 6 months later he said his peripheral neuropathy was much better. again, improved microcirculation. also supposed to be good for your eyes for other reasons, as well as for your ears (protected rats from damage from loud sounds--wish I knew that when i was a teenager). I had a hearing test over a year ago and have since been taking ginkgo consistently, so time to retest it.

[Luminosity]

That's good news longevitynow. As far as Whole Foods brand supplements, I would be suspicious of them. Generally Whole Foods brand products are substandard, with some exceptions. I got some Whole Foods Evening Primrose Oil that didn't do anything and tasted like vegetable oil. It made my face break out too.

[hav]

I take 200 mg of Ginkgo Biloba in the mornings and find it mildly energizing. I'm kicking around the idea of dropping or cutting back on a few other things I take which might not be helping with my blood pressure, like Eleuthro and Rhodiola, and bumping up the Ginkgo to compensate. I also take Gotu Kola which I like for the enhanced circulation effect. One negative I've heard about Gotu it is that it interferes with prescription statins which I take in the evening to lower cholesterol. So I only take Gotu in the mornings which seems to be working for me. In the evenings I take L-Arginine instead which has a circulation enhancing effect similar to Gotu but without the statin issue.

Howard

[ramon25]

I have seen some resreach on ginkgo increasing stroke risk. Any thoughts?

[gamesguru]

One thing I'd like to add is that a study of the addition of ginkgo as an adjunct therapy for memory is completely nonexistent. As a popular herb, it is often used in particular formulas. Taken with Jiaogulan, an herb that can be taken for blood pressure, I find it improves circulation to my finger tips and head, providing a bit of an "adrenaline" effect of stimulants, without a racing heart beat. I also get this from Fish Oil and Olive Oil, other natural blood thinners.

I imagine most of the noticeable effects of Ginkgo have to do with the increase in microcirculation.

I would really like to see a study of GInkgo done on Alzheimer's patients already taking Aricept or Namenda or both.

How is it that Jiaogulan is synergistic with Ginkgo?

[Synaptik]

Hello, new member here.

Just wanted to add my personal anecdote on Ginkgo Biloba. I've been taking this everyday religiously for about 10 years. Started off taking caps but have graduated to taking 2 doses of ginkgo drops (10-15), twice daily. The reason I take it has nothing to do with nootropic effects; I never feel ANYTHING taking this substance. Rather, it's taken solely for it's powerful antioxidant/health benefits. I love it's decades-long safety profile and unique properties.

I mean, the ginkgo species is estimated to be 100 million years old (oldest living life form) known to man; there are trees that are still living that are estimated to be 5000 years old. The picture linked is a 'Ginkgo Queen' estimated at 2500 years old (older than Jesus!!). No less that 6 ginkgo trees survived the nuclear blast radius of the Hiroshima & Nagasaki A-bombs, and in fact, started to flourish with buds shortly thereafter. They are the one living things to survive the blast, and still alive today (http://kwanten.home....l/hiroshima.htm). These plants can thrive in the most polluted urban environments on earth, and resist all pests.

Along with it's pristine safety profile (literally centuries old), that's enough rationale for me to take it. I'm in my mid-thirties and I don't have one grey hair or wrinkle on my whole body. Love the stuff.


"Ginkgo Queen" - estimated 2500 years old

Edited by Synaptik, 02 April 2012 - 04:00 AM.

[Hologram]

Mmmmm... radioactive Ginkgo.

[Synaptik]

Mmmmm... radioactive Ginkgo.

I just contacted my Ginkgo drop supplier today to check for sourcing. Apparently, the company switched to a Chinese supplier after the Fukushima Disaster to avoid radionuclides in the batching. Here's the email verbatim:


Yes, every batch is tested from raw materials to finish product. This is our way of guaranteeing potency, purity and quality for each batch before it is shipped out . We stopped buying from our Japan source because of the catastrophe that has affected their country.

We have an inhouse lab and we also send it out to a 3^rd party laboratory for confirmation for all our inhouse test results.


Also, apparently this supplier checks for heavy metals too in every batch, so that made me feel better:

X purchases the raw materials from China and we test the extract form in our lab for heavy metal testing, quality, purity and potency before adding this to our formulas.


So no nuclear ginkgo drops for me

Edited by Synaptik, 05 April 2012 - 01:05 AM.

[gamesguru]

I just found this, I don't think it's been posted here before: http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/19427589.