53 replies to this topic

[1kgcoffee]

Alright, please, I really need the collective brainpower of Longecity on this one. After beating breast cancer last year, my grandmother was just diagnosed with an aggressive stage 3 or 4 NSCLC sitting right on her bronchial tube near the heart (inoperable). They found it not from proper screening (yay Canadian healthcare!) but the massive clotting that I thought was a side effect of the anti-aromatase drug they had her on. We haven't been given too many specifics, but I think it is a squamous cell carcinoma. She's been given three to six months.

They plan on giving her a few courses of radiation, and possibly chemo if she can handle it. I don't know if this can be entirely defeated, but I would like to at least extend her prognosis by two or three times. What do you guys suggest? The only drug she is on right now is heparin.

So far I'm thinking:
AHCC 3-5 grams
L-arginine to dilate blood vessels, boost her immune system and energy levels
Serrapeptase to dissolve the clots
EGCG + green tea extract
resveratrol
creosote bush tea (for NDGA - similar to resveratrol)
Curcumin might be out of the question unfortunately

-thanks for any help

Edit to add: There is also a small tumor on her adrenal gland.

Edited by 1kgcoffee, 11 November 2011 - 04:30 AM.

[niner]

Sorry to hear about your grandmother. For the resveratrol, you'll want to use a high dose, the higher the better. This will encourage apoptosis in the tumor cells. Low doses are actually anti-apoptotic.

Why is curcumin out of the question?

[1kgcoffee]

Thanks
She's taking heparin and curcumin might thin her blood out too much. But then that might be worth the risk.

[Cephalon]

Very sorry for the bad news!

You could add Pterostilbene, which has beed found to be effective for apoptosis just as resveratrol and they might have a synergy.

Pterostilbene Inhibits Lung Cancer Through Induction of Apoptosis

http://www.jarrow.co...4/Pterostilbene

You might also find this book helpful which is available used at Amzon for just a few $
http://www.amazon.co...21202374&sr=8-1
It's called Cancer Prevention 2. Though it's main subject is about cancer prevention, it has some good tips on nutritional/supplemental interventions.

Good luck!!

Edited by Cephalon, 13 November 2011 - 04:42 PM.

[Luminosity]

About fifteen or twenty years ago there was a massive survey of all the available research on cancer treatment in US News and World Report. It surveyed research of the effectiveness of cancer treatment. With lung cancer the five year survival rate without treatment was about 51%. With traditional treatment, it was about 49%. Then about ten years ago there was some additional publicity for this statistic and they talked about changing traditional treatment for this ailment, but I don't think they did anything about it

I'm sorry you're dealing with this problem. Maybe you can find that study and show it to your relative.

I would recommend Chinese Medicine.

[aim1]

You might look into the benefits of Piperlongumine.
Best wishes
.

[okok]

There are also some promising reports for tocotrienols.

[hippocampus]

what about chinese mushrooms?

[Sillewater]

High doses of limonene? It is currently in phase II trials I think.

[Elus]

Maybe metformin? (Please someone more knowledgable comment on this) http://www.biomedcen.../1741-7015/9/33

Not sure if Vitamin D is viable for those who already have cancer. Might also want to look into foods that prevent angiogenesis.

http://blog.ted.com/...dr_william_lis/

Edited by Elus, 14 November 2011 - 03:58 PM.

[APBT]

Here's a resource/treatment center alternative you could investigate.
http://www.cancercenter.com/

[Thorsten3]

What about trying a ketogenic diet, don't feed the cancer

Edited by Thorsten2, 15 November 2011 - 10:35 PM.

[brundall]

Milk Thistle?? This is a link to another thread that was just posted over in supplements.

http://www.longecity...cancer-in-mice/

[1kgcoffee]

Thanks kindly for all of the responses.

-Adding milk thistle.
-Considering adding cats claw and graviola.

I'm thinking of laying off the EGCG/green tea extract and curcumin. I'm worried it will protect the cancer from the radiation she's about to receive. Is the protective effect negligable? Any thoughts?

Thorsten2,
Great idea.

Hippocampus,
Yup, I'm a big believer in medicinal mushrooms. AHCC appears to be the active component, so that's what she'll be getting.

Sillewater,
What would you consider a high dose of limonene?

[Sillewater]

http://clinicaltrial...how/NCT01046929

The clinical trial for breast cancer used 2g everyday. However it may be more effective in breast tissue because limonene gets stored in adipose. Since your grandmother has a carcinoma I am not sure if it would be effective. However in a case-cohort study citrus peel use was associated with decreased squamous cell carcinoma (1). Quite significant I might add, and considering their citrus peel use I would say their intake is probably less than 50mg/day.

References

Nutr Cancer. 2000;37(2):161-8.Citrus peel use is associated with reduced risk of squamous cell carcinoma of the skin.Hakim IA, Harris RB, Ritenbaugh C.

Maybe also get your hands on some nano-resveratrol: http://pubs.acs.org/....1021/jf2031346 However I am unsure of its effectiveness against cancer.

Edited by Sillewater, 16 November 2011 - 05:01 AM.

[Sillewater]

Let us know what your plan is and also keep us up to date? I know it must be difficult and there seems like so much you can do, but always make sure to discuss things with the doctor. Maybe a statin might help:

J Thorac Oncol. 2011 Mar;6(3):439-50.
Lovastatin sensitizes lung cancer cells to ionizing radiation: modulation of molecular pathways of radioresistance and tumor suppression.

Sanli T, Liu C, Rashid A, Hopmans SN, Tsiani E, Schultz C, Farrell T, Singh G, Wright J, Tsakiridis T.

Clin Cancer Res. 2011 Mar 15;17(6):1553-60.A randomized phase II study of gefitinib plus simvastatin versus gefitinib alone in previously treated patients with advanced non-small cell lung cancer.Han JY, Lee SH, Yoo NJ, Hyung LS, Moon YJ, Yun T, Kim HT, Lee JS.

Although no superiority of GS to G was demonstrated in this unselected NSCLC population, GS showed higher RR and longer PFS compared with G alone in patients with wild-type EGFR nonadenocarcinomas. Simvastatin may improve the efficacy of gefitinib in that subgroup of gefitinib-resistant NSCLC patients.

[gamesguru]

Anti-neoplastons, dichloroacetate, intense chemotherapy, herbs, and appetite stimulants may help. The first two are very controversial. A good diet always helps. Resveratrol and the other supplements recommended seem helpful too.

[mpe]

IV vitamin c 100,000 mg a day

Edited by mpe, 18 November 2011 - 05:19 AM.

[1kgcoffee]

Sillewater,
Thank you my friend. A statin is an excellent idea.
I'm not sure how much I trust these doctors. It's hit or miss. She has a new oncologist now, but the previous one turned her away three times for what to a competent doctor should have been obvious signs of blood clotting. We are living under a socialized healthcare system - sure, better than other some system - but we've have to fight very hard to get a decent level of care. Because she's older and statistically more likely to die from other causes, I don't think that they're as interested in spending the resources or the extra time when there are so many younger patients. I will talk to them about more conventional drugs like a statin or medical marijuana, but I might have to keep Resveratrol and AHCC and curcumin private, in case they discourage her from taking something that they're too busy to look up. Not saying they're assholes, but full disclosure might not be the best idea.
Heres the regimen I'm about to order from iherb:
AHCC - 2grams a day, more if it weren't so damned expensive
Resveratrol - 2 grams a day, divided
Now EGCG, green tea extract - 800mg
Doctors best Curcumin C3 - 2 grams, divided
Limonene - 2 grams
(turns out curcumin and egcg actually sensitize cancer cells to radiation - http://www.lef.org/p..._therapy_01.htm)
If she does go on chemo, I might have to cut a couple of these out.
Not sure about the arginine, but will order it along with some lysine. If she doesn't use it, I will.

Going to talk to her doc about statins and medical marijuana. Might just go ahead and roll her some 'special' cigarettes myself.

dasheenster,
Thankyou for the suggestions. I'd like to comment on a few for others who might be reading this

anti-neoplastons

Super interesting concept, but very expensive (upwards of $30k) and not scientifically validated.

dichloroacetate

Interesting but overhyped. Not shown to work in humans.
http://www.cancer.or...-Treatment.aspx

Intense chemo

Not necessarily better. This is an 80 year old woman, it could kill her before the cancer. Could cause a new cancer.

herbs

Yes!

appetite stimulants

Are you referring to pot? Because I'm seriously considering this. She's also pretty depressed, it could brighten her up. Plus, there's evidence of lung tumor suppression.


mpe,
It's an interesting concept, but it would be near impossible to convince her to go on an IV.


-thanks to everyone who has responded so far.

Edited by 1kgcoffee, 19 November 2011 - 02:18 AM.

[gamesguru]

appetite stimulants

Are you referring to pot? Because I'm seriously considering this. She's also pretty depressed, it could brighten her up. Plus, there's evidence of lung tumor suppression.

Cannabis is one of the safer appetite stimulants for cancer patients, though if she's not on chemotherapy or intense radiation therapy, her appetite SHOULD be average, and the extra calories wouldn't help. She also shouldn't be nauseous or vomiting, so cannabis wouldn't help here either.

It sounds like you are trying to take her down the "natural" therapy treatment. Steve Jobs attempted this for a few years before his cancer grew worse and, after pain drove him back to the doctors, even advanced therapies proved futile in controlling the uncontrolled tumors.

My own view is that chemo is very harmful, but it is proven to control the cancer. This assumes the docs use the right chemo drug. One of the uses of cannabis is that it allow chemo patients to consume adequate nutrition and thwart nausea/vomiting.

I absolutely would NOT recommend giving her cannabis to help with depression. If she wants to die depressed, and she has had a life-long affair with cannabis, then maybe sneaking her some wouldn't be too evil given where she is heading anyways. But if you truly want to help her get out of her rut, you know what's best.

[1kgcoffee]

Yeah, I take back the dumb idea of using MJ for an anti-depressant. She's getting a very high dose of radiation, and probably chemo. It might help.

I don't care if something is natural or not, as long there is good evidence to back it up, it's not overly risky, and it's affordable.

RE Steve Jobs, there have been rumors, but he did get the conventional whipple surgery after pancreatic cancer. After that it's all rumors. He kept his health problems very private.

[mpe]

If you don't think you can get her to do IV vit c you could go the lipsomal route. It's relatively easy to make your own, there are recipes on the net and videos on YouTube. You can add in other supplements in the process to make dosing of them easier and a bit af Stevia to make it taste better, spread the dosing out through the day and you could get IV like concentrations. Or you can buy it online, that's a bit expensive though given the volumes you'd need.

Also make sure her vit d is as close to 100ng to 100mill as you can get; you can bet her levels are in the deficient range as would be her c levels. Actually it would be a very good idea to get a full blood work up done through a group such as The Life Extension Foundation for both cost and interpretation.

Good Luck

Mike

[Sillewater]

Don't know where this whole Vitamin C for cancer thing came from but just be careful with it:
http://classic.the-s.../display/55896/

The study in question used water-soluble vitamin E instead of C but both are antioxidants right? If you read the study it is actually quite interesting (and I think well-done).

And just for FYI: http://www.ruledomai...ticleNumber=674

Edited by Sillewater, 20 November 2011 - 07:53 AM.

[mpe]

Get her off all grain based foods, ketogenic is definitely the way to go. If she must do chemo, radio therapy have her fast the day before and the day of the treatments. If nothing else she won't feel as sick because of those treatments, though to be honest I don't think they have any benefit to the cancer patient; these "treatments"only seem to make cancer patients weaker and sicker.

Mike

Edited by mpe, 20 November 2011 - 07:59 AM.

[mpe]

R-lipoid acid 1gram three times a day, is toxic to cancer cells on its own and increases the potency of vitamin c as a cancer killer.

[hippocampus]

if you will use marijuana I suggest you to use vaporizer, smoke is not good for lungs.

[JChief]

I would offer Eurycoma Longifolia yet it also increases testosterone. But I figured I'd mention anyway..
Taiwanese scientists isolated 65 biochemical compounds from the roots of Eurycoma longifolia, of which ten exhibited "strong cytotoxicity" towards human lung and breast cancer cell lines.^[29]
Apart from the better-known quassinoids, the same group of scientist also isolated beta-carboline alkaloids, several of which were active against lung and breast cancer cell lines.^[30]
Investigating the activity of 24 Eurycoma longifolia quassinoids against cancer cell lines, including lung cancer cells, medical researchers in Japan found that eurycomalactone was as effective against cancer cells as the established anti-cancer drug doxorubicin.^[31]

[JChief]

Don't know where this whole Vitamin C for cancer thing came from but just be careful with it:
http://classic.the-s.../display/55896/

Search a little harder. I too have read about the powerful results IF and only IF you can manage to find a doctor who is willing to offer IV Vitamin C. Keep in mind it has to be done via IV!

http://www.kumed.com...lt.aspx?ID=5049

Speaking of vitamins.. Vitamin D levels and cancer show an interesting correlation. Most of us do not get even close to enough.

Edited by JChief, 23 November 2011 - 11:46 AM.

[hamishm00]

Phytos (Curcumin, milk thistle, honokiol, Resveratrol)
IP6
Modified citrus pectin (very interesting studies on pubmed about it's anti cancer properties)
Metformin - recent press on this being strongly anti-cancer, quite safe
Rapamycin - research risk/reward and other implications / side effects and speak to doctor first

[JChief]

With regard to Vit C suggestions: "Oral vitamin C is an antioxidant with controlled absorption. Intravenous vitamin C is a pro-oxidant drug that helps produce hydrogen peroxide, which targets neoplastic cells while leaving normal cells unharmed. Because this form is delivered intravenously, plasma and tissue levels are many times above that of oral dosing." FYI

Edited by JChief, 23 November 2011 - 01:57 PM.