86 replies to this topic

[manic_racetam]

I'm at the 2.5 week mark without any Stablon. Haven't noticed anything really noteworthy in regards to discontinuation of the medicine. A possible correlation to recent slight increase in appetite and very mild weight gain, but no effects on digestion that I've noticed. Started my exercise regimen again this week so I assume BFP will be in order shortly.

Actually not taking any supplements at all right now so I'm getting a very good wash-out phase. The only thing I'm still taking is daily acyclovir for outbreak prevention.

No increase in depression that I can tell and the obsessive thoughts I mentioned in a previous post don't seem to be bothering me anymore. Not sure if that was correlated or not to the discontinuation of Stablon.

Anyway, will update again in a week or so but I'm not expecting any surprises. Feels kind of nice to have a break from all the supplementation actually.

[manic_racetam]

May we have the pleasure of a second "post tianeptine" report? 0:) any "permanent" benefits? Hows it goin?

Ive read that it has good memory preservation qualities and that it helps with focusing even after interruption of treatment: any comments?

It's hard to tell at this point if there are any permanent benefits. I noticed three main benefits while taking Stablon:

1. Frequent fluctuations in mood had very little effect on my behavior or demeanor. I suppose this could be a form of improved impulse control. The mood swings were still present, I just seemed to be unaffected by them for the most part.

2. Overall brightening of mood, but not necessarily a subjective increase in happiness. However, over-time I noticed a definite reduction in the various symptoms of depression.

3. No subjective increase in my ability to focus, but when looking at long term goals they all got completed. So honestly it had a very strange effect on focus/concentration. It seemed to increase my ability to focus on things but it was over the course of many months, rather than a short period of concentration. A comparison would be to Ritalin working to help you study for 8 hours straight and pass a test the next day, but it wouldn't necessarily help you complete a website that takes months of writing content with many different sessions. It seemed that Stablon didn't help my focus in the short term (for studying 8 hours in a row it would have been pretty useless in my case) but long term focus really seemed dramatically improved. It made it less likely that I'd give up on something if it was becoming difficult or taking too long.


So as far as permanent changes I'd say it's too early to tell. If anything my mood swings have become less frequent and so far I haven't been bothered by them. Haven't noticed an increase in depression symptoms but haven't really taken a good inventory of them recently.

And the third point is going to take a while to assess since the results were so long term. I sincerely hope that a permanent change has taken place in completing long term goals! That's something I've been lacking my entire life up to this point.

Will update again in a bit

Edited by manic_racetam, 08 January 2013 - 02:13 PM.

[riloal]

Hi, manic racetam, any update?

[magniloquentc0unt]

good idea, please update us: i for myself have had put quite a bit of hope into ritalin, but it did not work at all, i am now considering tianeptine even more

[manic_racetam]

Subjective experience and monitoring one's own behavioral changes can be quite complex. Not sure what to say about my experience with discontinuing this medication.

If any changes have taken place it's likely that they've been so gradual I haven't really noticed. I did experience a pretty lengthy bit of depression the last couple of months but it was no where near as unpleasant as in the past. I'm not even sure that moderate to mild depression is necessarily a bad thing (in absence of suicidal ideation of course). This time when I got depressed I refused to be hard on myself about not getting things done in the same manner as I'd done during happier times. This removed the self-pity aspect of depression for me for the most part and it wasn't really that bad. Lot's of down-time, art projects and lazing about. Like I said, I don't think that kind of behavior is inherently bad, just different than what I experience when in states of high energy/motivation.

I've accepted that through certain times in the year I'll likely experience a reduction in motivation and an increase in negative thought patterns. As long as I don't see any serious repercussions in my life I think I'll try to continue on unmedicated. It might be more beneficial in the long-run to understand my emotional cycles and learn to cope with them or use them to my advantage without medication.

That's how I feel at the moment, which usually doesn't mean much in regards to tomorrow.

[chris2038]

Hi there,

Is someone able to PM me a reputable website or location to buy this stuff?

I live in the Toronto area (Canada)

[0010]

This stuff is amazing,took 10 pills with 250mg caffeine. I was full of energy,motivated and euphoric. Doing homework was effortless and fun. Finally found the magic pill!! Has anyone had any experience with nootropics depot tianeptine?

[Babychris]

yeah so magic pill is 10 pills (QID at least..) good luck with this first on addiction, then with withdrawal but before all of this see how you will pay for this..

I'm taking actually the regular dosage 1 TID it actually works and synergise pretty well with ashwagandha.. I wish I could find a nootropic that works with consistency for me, but not yet. I'm waiting for coluracetam but it seems that it's not that perfect for most of users.

[unregistered_user]

This stuff is amazing,took 10 pills with 250mg caffeine. I was full of energy,motivated and euphoric. Doing homework was effortless and fun. Finally found the magic pill!! Has anyone had any experience with nootropics depot tianeptine?

This isn't going to end well....

[jonathan-g]

Tianeptine is a pretty forgiving substance, it is hard to overdose on it. And 250 mg caffeine is not a particularly large amount. That's one strong coffee at Starbucks, at most.

[Sinter]

This stuff is amazing,took 10 pills with 250mg caffeine. I was full of energy,motivated and euphoric. Doing homework was effortless and fun. Finally found the magic pill!! Has anyone had any experience with nootropics depot tianeptine?

Don't take offense, because this is coming from someone who understands your situation...

STOP

I've read a few of your posts. You are heading towards addiction and death.
Stop taking massive doses of drugs or searching for powerful chemicals.
Get treatment with a good psychologist, find some friends, and enjoy your life.

Please, I hope you do this.

[0010]

Went up to 250mg's of tianeptine, suffered mild serotonin syndrome,experienced mild nausea,increase in heart rate,mild hyperthermia and vasoconstriction. Effects lasted about 6 hours in which i drank about 3 liters of water to prevent severe dehydration caused by hyperthermia. Strong euphoria was present but without the empathy mdma has,it was more of a cosy warm feeling with a great body high,relieved anxiety completely. No withdrawal after two day dosing of 125mg and 250mg tianeptine. Note: this is a subjective report based on my experience and I DO NOT encourage people to experiment with this drug.

[magniloquentc0unt]

tianeptine has been shown to have cancellative effects when coadministrated with fluoxetine
therefore, i really doubt what you experienced was serotonin syndrome

[Sunwind]

I've been thinking about buying some pre-capped stuff of this for a while now, i'm currently on venlafaxine and mirtazapine, but they don't really seem to be doing anything for my depression, and the venlafaxine I'm sure is just killing my emotions and making everything feel 'flat', and probably even killing my motivation, but then that's a symptom of depression anyway, so who knows?

Should I come off these first before taking any tianeptine, or can they be co-administered? (RE; serotonin syndrome)

[SearchingForAnswers]

I'm on Day 2, dose 4 of Tianeptine.

 

I'm also coming off Paxil for about 10 days, but I'm finally getting through that. Also taking Nuvigl (Armodafinil) on work days.

 

In addition I started using curcumin about a month ago, take two capsules in the morning (I believe it's BCM-95).

 

It's quite surprising how sedating this is, however I think this effect might be temporary, at least to the degree I feel it now. For me that's good since anxiety and myself have been good friends.

 

I have an alert but calm feeling, but a little slow on the cognition. Probably too early to really tell anything. Tomorrow I have some coluracetam arriving and I'll try a small dose (without Armodafinil) and see if that goes well together. Mostly I'm hoping for memory / cognition improvements with the coluracetam.

 

With the tianeptine, I'm just hoping to alleviate the depression without all of the negative side effects of SSRI's.

 

Has anybody tried them (tianeptine and coluracetam) together? Are there any known safety issues I need to be aware of?

 

I've also used C60-OO a few weeks ago, for about two weeks. Had an incredible feeling of well being and mental clarity when I first tried it, but it's also close to the time I started the armodafinil and since I didn't keep detailed logs I'm not certain what the cause of that was. I'm not a person who feels extremely well very often!

 

One strange thing is that I used to get horrible head zaps and all kinds of problems if I even missed the paxil for two days; this time, very very little in the way of head zaps and the withdrawal is going extremely well, by comparison (I took it about 10 or so years ago also, and got off). This time I've been taking it for the last ~2 years. I'm thinking that maybe the curcumin might have helped with the withdrawal symptoms.

 

Hope this might help somebody. I'll try and keep this updated. 

Edited by SearchingForAnswers, 18 April 2014 - 07:39 PM.

[Betterself]

"Has anybody tried them (tianeptine and coluracetam) together? Are there any known safety issues I need to be aware of?"

 

I can only answer to my own experience.

I take the two together without issue.

I absolutly love the coluracetam for cognition/memory benefits and the tianeptine for it's anxyolitic effects.

I am one of the fortunate ones that still get good results from the tianeptine when used a couple of times a week even after the so called honeymoon period.

The coluracetam I hope is available for the rest of my life!

Six months takng both and the second worst winter of my 57 year long life.

I have never been on big pharma antidepresants though.

Too bad they don't get the message.

Edited by Betterself, 18 April 2014 - 08:11 PM.

[FocusPocus]

Do any of you guys using Tianeptine find it to enhance cognition and memory at all?

 

This seems to be the drug with the most online reviews ever, half of which attest to its nootropic effects too.

 

Sounds too good to be true actually.

[Babychris]

I have pharmaceutical grade Tianeptine from france and as far I can tell there can be some impressive and various benefits but unfortunately it rarely happens and sometime left me feel a bit too much "stable" but I'm very sensitive to everything that could be negative in a drug. 

 

But I remember 1 or 2 incredible experience with it (including incresed memory and thinking ability) particularly interesting if you are a positive responder to coluracetam. You don't have nothing to loose but honestly it could sound paradoxal but I don't think that it's really usefull drug exception made for depressive and anxiogenic episode when it shine all his potential. 

 

To conclude I can say that this is a complex stuff it's quite hard to put words on it. Too bad I don't get the same mood brightening effect everytime :(

[WordSm1th]

OP was on 11/11/11 at 1:19pm. Creepy.

 

Sulbutiamine is SO annoying to self-cap. It's so light and fluffy, any attempt to tamper it down ends up just flushing all the powder out of the capsule. Ugh!

 

I find Tianeptine amazing. I must say, I HAVE been megadosing it compared to the OP's 37mg per day (each dose I take is ~200mg, maybe 1-3 times per day). I've read somewhere that dosing above the recommendation for Tian. is useless and has no additional effect. I'm guessing this is in reference to any strictly nootropic ends, because I noticed a HUGE difference in the sweeeet love making between that additional 200mg+ and my lonely receptors. I realize this is ill-advised, however, after several long stints in the hospital with a chronic condition, I was on some powerful painkillers. Afterwards, since I couldn't just 'turkey my daily ~30mg Dilaudid injections, I had to be classified as a drug addict (what an awesome healthcare system we have) and go on several "interviews" with Suboxone doctors to see if any would "hire" me as a patient (again, awesome healthcare system). I've slowly been tapering off the Subs, and it is my belief and understanding that not only is the excessive Tianeptine healthier, its withdrawals will be markedly easier than my friend from across the tracks (P.I.): good-old, 8-week half-life Suboxone. 

 

While I would normally start withdrawing from the Subs within 15 hours from last dose, after I started Tianeptine, I no longer needed the nasty orange sublingual taste of defeat. Not sure if everyone is familiar with the ~new, multi-billion dollar puke-orange Suboxone films, but they are supposed to completely cock-block any opioids taken after the Suboxone is administered. Well, I realize that Tianeptine is not actually classified as an opiate—or it has a really powerful cock, because I was swimming in what seemed like a milk-of-the-poppy sea. Also, as I only purchased a small amount of Tianeptine, I had to go back on the Subs while waiting for a larger supply, and I was able to HALVE my Suboxone dose (unheard of in my previous taper regiment). 

 

I think much more needs to be said about the potential benefits of Tianeptine in tapering off of Suboxone or dangerous opiates.

 

(Disclaimer: Clearly, I do not condone any of the above, and it is all obviously hypothetical. As nearly all of our respectful and distinguished nootropic suppliers make sure to indicate on all their products: They are for RESEARCH USE ONLY, and should/are not consumed by humans [duh...])

[Mind_Paralysis]

I'm currently working on a hypothesis regarding the mechanism of ADHD -

 

Works inverted to Schizophrenia

--------------------------------------------

Low KYNA

Low Tryptophan

Low Dopamine

Overactive NMDA-network ( hence why Memantine helps)

 

Hypothetically, if my idea is correcty, supplementing with Tryptophan will enhance KYNA and Melatonin -levels in the ADHD -brain. The side-effect will be increased Serotonin however.

 

Here's where Tianeptine comes in - it increases Dopamine-levels by interacting with the NMDA-network and by lowering Serotonin.

 

In theory, this combo, could be DYNAMITE!

 

So, if anyone here on Longecity who has ADHD and have used a combo of Tianeptine and Tryptophan, and can report their findings, then that would be lovely.

 

 

My hypothesis was deduced from these papers:
 

Tryptophan deficiency in ADHD -children:

http://psychcentral....ciency/00013653

 

Decreased KYNA -levels in ADHD -children:

http://www.behaviora.../content/6/1/29

 

Article referencing the connection between dopamine and KYNA

http://www.ncbi.nlm....les/PMC2861136/

Edited by Stinkorninjor, 26 March 2015 - 08:16 PM.

[bitborg]

thanks so much for this thread it was really informative. I am on month 2 of taking tianeptine and I found the ideal dose seems to be 20mg TID. I am wondering, does tolerance build up in the long term? for example half a year and beyond? Thanks

[xxxxxxxx]

I'd like to add onto this thread, even though it is old. I don't want to clutter things up with a new one:

 

My Tianeptine experience:

 

Conclusion: not for me, will discontinue due to lack of efficacy and side effects

 

Reason for initial trial: Fairly severe anhedonia with thinking/memory issues for 3 years. This was my first psych drug and I don't/ didn't do illegal drugs or legal noots.

Source: legitimate prescription from my international p-doc (tia is not available in US) at standard 3x/12.5mg dose

Duration of trial: 2.5 weeks. the studies measured effects at 7 days, so I say it's adequate. I literally had little positive variability with time, so can extrapolate continuation of the same.

 

Cons: made my already fried working memory more terrible, and it seemed to worsen with time! It feels like your head is a marshmallow, or you just got out of a boiling hot shower. No mood boost at any stage. Insomnia, on top of my existing insomnia.  Minor increase in anxiety for first 3-4 days. None of these were *that* intolerable, but I really doubted things would improve. However, the insomnia can't be good for me long term. Even if somebody told me it would clear up in a month, I can't not sleep while I wait out said month. Also: I felt my hands and feet get freezing cold (could be in my head/ unrelated, as tia isn't a vasoconstrictor and is probably the opposite), this is not normal for me to this amount.

 

Pros: Seemed to give me more physical energy. It also allowed me to get brainless tasks (like laundry) done despite remaining unmotivated. That was peculiar but unlikely a placebo. Slight reduction in anger. 

 

Discontinuation effects: absolutely NONE whatsoever. zero. zip. nada. I do have a theory that only the people who get the initial euphoria boost will have a nasty discontinuation syndrome or become one of those rare birds who do abuse it. They must have some kind of supersensitive opioid system (?)

 

In all, this is a pretty wimpy drug. Very unlikely to leave you with lasting damage and thus worth a shot. The doc who prescribed it (he's kind of a vague family acquaintance) even called it wimpy himself, though he doesn't prescribe it often. Those words might not be true for aforementioned immediate-responders.

Edited by MiaouMixe, 05 November 2015 - 05:04 AM.

[Geoffrey]

Strange how people respond so differently to the same drug and dosage. I had a wonderful "honeymoon" period with tianeptine sodium, and then tianeptine sulphate at less than the recommended dosage, I take approx. 12mg (I started off using a mg scale, but now I know how much is 12mg roughly, I guess) usually only once per day, sometimes twice if I have something social to do or if I have to perform in public. I felt a pretty immediate warmth and buzz (a very mild high) on my first dose, which I thought was placebo. However, since the effect was constant every day after administration, and since it was noticeably absent at weekends when I stopped dosing, I came to realize the effect was real. I found it gave me a real boost if I took it 30-60min before speaking (formally) in public -- words came to me much faster, I was energized, confident, and as a result my audience much more responsive (since I was energizing them).

This lasted for about three weeks and then, alas, the honeymoon wore off, that darned homeostasis kicked in, and the tianeptine became just OK. I tried increasing the dose, but just got the marshmallow feeling and my verbal recall dropped. It was also no longer energizing me, consistently: some days I just felt completely drained, other days it seemed to do part of its previous magic, but all a bit randomly. So, reluctantly, I decided to have a wash-out period and stopped for several days. I can't say I had any obvious "withdrawal" symptoms, but my mood became noticeably lower approx. 48h from my last dose and my shyness in making small talk with strangers (which had almost completely been abolished while taking tianeptine) returned. I think I lasted five or six days before deciding I couldn't stand it. I got about 80% of its initial effect on restarting, which I was very happy about, but I determined to do every-other-day dosing to avoid the homeostasis. But it's difficult, as I have to speak often in public, and its very tempting to take a dose and hope it'll do its magic. So that's where I'm at. I avoid it on days I don't "need" it, and take it before some major public engagement. What I find now is that it often works, but not always just when I want it to. Sometimes it'll kick in after half an hour, and other times it'll do nothing for me, but will suddenly kick in three hours later with a vengeance (in a good way), but long after I needed it. This makes timing incredibly difficult, as if I get it wrong, I can often just feel fatigued, which is not at all what I want.

I guess there's no free lunch. A performance and mood boost now is often at the expense of a downer later. But overall my experience so far (about 6 weeks) has been positive enough to use this on an as-needed basis. The longer I go without using it, the more reliable it is when I do use it. I found it works OK with noopept (definitely prevents the mild depression that noopept can induce) or sunifiram (in really minute dosage, like 2mg, or else I can get brain fog) -- these can make it more reliable. However, best of all to co-administer is armodafinil 37.5mg - 75mg , as this can significantly reduce the chance of tianeptine inducing fatigue, and sometimes they work together beautifully to push all the intellectual buttons at once. But again, it's unpredictable.

The other effect I notice from tianeptine alone is the typical racetam "brightening" of shiny objects and of my field of vision more generally. As I only rarely take noopept or suni with it, I can be pretty sure this effect (which I also experience from all the racetams) is also produced by the tianeptine alone.

[LongLife]

I'm currently working on a hypothesis regarding the mechanism of ADHD -

 

Works inverted to Schizophrenia

--------------------------------------------

Low KYNA

Low Tryptophan

Low Dopamine

Overactive NMDA-network ( hence why Memantine helps)

 

Hypothetically, if my idea is correcty, supplementing with Tryptophan will enhance KYNA and Melatonin -levels in the ADHD -brain. The side-effect will be increased Serotonin however.

 

Here's where Tianeptine comes in - it increases Dopamine-levels by interacting with the NMDA-network and by lowering Serotonin.

 

In theory, this combo, could be DYNAMITE!

 

So, if anyone here on Longecity who has ADHD and have used a combo of Tianeptine and Tryptophan, and can report their findings, then that would be lovely.

 

 

My hypothesis was deduced from these papers:
 

Tryptophan deficiency in ADHD -children:

http://psychcentral....ciency/00013653

 

Decreased KYNA -levels in ADHD -children:

http://www.behaviora.../content/6/1/29

 

Article referencing the connection between dopamine and KYNA

http://www.ncbi.nlm....les/PMC2861136/

 

 

If you look into Dr. William Welsh's development of EPIGENETICS, you will find another world regarding research on the subject of personality disorders, medications and applied theories. Cheers

[noobray]

I found a big French document about tianeptine, it may be of help

 

http://docnum.univ-l...NE_ISABELLE.pdf

 

 

[fntms]

Nothing that interesting or new in that thesis, I just noted that the opioid affinity was known for ages (just not published on pubmed) and is rated 370-1000x weaker than morphine, with a pain reducing effect 3-10x weaker than morphine.

[Mind_Paralysis]

Curious... why is the pain-reducing effect only 3-10x less, when the affinity is THREE-HUNDRED times less?

[fntms]

Just guessing there are other pathways for pain reduction.

[gamesguru]

Subtle differences in docking cascades underlie dramatic changes in signalling amplitude.


Same with LSD vs psilocybin, LSD is actually weak at 5HT2A!

Edited by gamesguru, 09 July 2016 - 01:42 PM.

[Mind_Paralysis]

Gamesguru: So, are you saying that slight differences in how a chemical connects, will actually change how much signalling is invoked, even though the connection could be weaker or stronger with another chemical?

Aka - HOW a substance connects to a receptor is as important as how strongly it connects?


A rather curious development, if that is the case!

Wouldn't that imply that there are different connection-matrices that neurotransmitters, receptors and psycho-active substances follow, and that is in reality a property that should be analyzed and catalogued for proper research into new and old compounds??