86 replies to this topic

[gamesguru]

Yes, stinky.  By focusing all of your attention on the Ki value, you disregard a great deal.

[Mind_Paralysis]

Hmm! Is there any data, any archiving, of this connection-method-measurement? That could be a great, great deal of help, in finding compounds for all sorts of things.

For instance, some of the atypical antipsychotics binds to the D4-receptor, as agonists, but that action is so g-damn weak often. Buut, perhaps it would be possible to find a highly D4-stimulating compound, even without a low Ki value, then?

 

Show me the money, man! = ) How does one determine this property?

 

Of course, if it just says that a compound is more stimulating or sedating, because that's what clinical use shows, then that's obviously a clue.

 

 

This makes me reconsider Brexpiprasol... The D4 Ki value was abysmal, yet it WAS researched as a treatment of ADHD... and one of the SCT-ers involved in the study mentioned on Reddit how life-changing that stuff was - could it have a highly efficient connection-matrix for the D4-receptor? That would still increase D4-signalling sufficiently, and have a powerful therapeutic effect.

[gamesguru]

it might have side effects, if not on D4, elsewhere. or did you look into why it wasn't receiving just attention? Flex found 浙江楠 Phoebe chekiangensis, which contains D4 agonists and antagonists. not possible to find an extract tho :\

 

a lot of compounds elicit "favorable" signalling cascades on their receptor, likely NSI and noopept, methylene blue, ginkgo, rosmarinic acid, EGCG and EC, certain marine indole and ergot alkaloids, etc. that's 100% *sometimes* the reason why a lose dose works at a high Ki. unfortunately the whole phenomenon is very compound-specific, and research is in the preliminary stages.

[normalizing]

about Brexpiprasol, it received approval just last year so its very new stuff, probably real expensive, and it explains why not much is discussed or known about it. im curious myself now, what is serotonin-dopamine activity modulator (SDAM)? sounds like a pretty rad stuff. my curious stems from the fact it is aimed for major depressive disorder and not just being another outdated crappy antipsychotic.

[stan08]

Tianeptine sulfate seems to be increasing my anxiety and making me very short tempered and snappy. Does this happen to many and/or does it eventually go away?

Edited by stan08, 17 July 2016 - 01:16 AM.

[r4ndom]

Hey guys, can someone knowledgable chime in here. I have PSSD (post ssri sexual dysfunction). The theory behind it is, the serotonin receptors, specifically 5ht1a is desensitized causing too much serotonin to float around the synapse, leading to the sexual dysfunction. I was interested in tianeptine for an unrelated issue. Is tianeptine bad for someone who has pssd? Could it make it worse? Any chance it could resensitize my receptors and possibly help me? The compound WAY 100,635 is a serotonin 5ht1a antagonist and was shown to reverse sexual dysfunction as a result of ssri in rats for example.. How does tianeptine fit in the picture with all of this here?

[fntms]

Tianeptine sulfate seems to be increasing my anxiety and making me very short tempered and snappy. Does this happen to many and/or does it eventually go away?

How much are you taking?
This is an unusual reaction for standard doses (30 40mg spread over the day).

[stan08]

Tianeptine sulfate seems to be increasing my anxiety and making me very short tempered and snappy. Does this happen to many and/or does it eventually go away?

How much are you taking?
This is an unusual reaction for standard doses (30 40mg spread over the day).

25 mg once in the morning for a couple days and just 12.5 mg once in the morning for two days after that. Same teaction at the lower dose, just not as strong. The negative reaction tends to really hit about 6 or 7 hours after I take it. Was told the sulfate version absorbs much slower and only has to be taken once per day.

[normalizing]

stan maybe its the opioid effect of action. noticed problems with various opiates relating similar issue? opiates can make some people anxious, irritated just put them in bad mood which is opposite of what some people wish to get out of them.

[stan08]

stan maybe its the opioid effect of action. noticed problems with various opiates relating similar issue? opiates can make some people anxious, irritated just put them in bad mood which is opposite of what some people wish to get out of them.

Never tried another opiate so unsure if that's the reason.

[fntms]

I hate opiates (tramadol, morphine), I have scripts for pain problems but never take them because they make me anxious when they stop working and dumb when they are working ... tianeptine does not have those effects luckily for me, quite the contrary at the therapeutic doses or less. If 12.5mg once a day causes issues then just give it up and look for a better treatment for the issue at hand (anxiety?)

[normalizing]

fntms, i think its because opiate use causes influx of glutamate and upregulation of it. i read this is common among opiates perhaps thats one of the many other side effects they have. this one specifically is more related to mood than anything else. i was thinking perhaps taking opiates with some glutamate modulating agent might help mitigate some of the detriments in cognition? but who knows i never tried

[Mind_Paralysis]

fntms, i think its because opiate use causes influx of glutamate and upregulation of it. i read this is common among opiates perhaps thats one of the many other side effects they have. this one specifically is more related to mood than anything else. i was thinking perhaps taking opiates with some glutamate modulating agent might help mitigate some of the detriments in cognition? but who knows i never tried

 

Taking Tianeptine could very well be exactly that. It does modulate Glutamate-activity, it doesn't just increase it whole-sale.

Sooooooo... that could explain why FNTMS doesn't like Opiates, but doesn't have a problem with Tianeptine.

[normalizing]

stink, tianeptine is also an opiate and it does cause withdrawl which is stimulation of glutamate too. im kind of confused because i did see report on being neuroprotective in excitotoxicity yet with its opiatic action it can also encourage glutamate release especially when abruptly quit. its definitely one complicated stuff that one.  not sure how to understand it but it requires more studies on this for sure as it is still not fully understood

Edited by normalizing, 18 July 2016 - 12:22 AM.

[Mind_Paralysis]

stink, tianeptine is also an opiate and it does cause withdrawl which is stimulation of glutamate too. im kind of confused because i did see report on being neuroprotective in excitotoxicity yet with its opiatic action it can also encourage glutamate release especially when abruptly quit. its definitely one complicated stuff that one.  not sure how to understand it but it requires more studies on this for sure as it is still not fully understood

 

I think we're miscommunicating a little bit - I do know that it's got opiate effects at higher doses, that's why I figure it's like taking an opiate and a glutamate-modulator at the same time - might be why some who can't tolerate Opiates can tolerate even high-dose Tianeptine! = )

 

You're definitely right that it requires further study - it could actually lead to improved pain-meds for the more sensitive folk! Perhaps with less tolerance and withdrawl even. Tons of potential in Tianeptine-derivatives.

 

 

It's actually a bit curious that no more research is being done... to improve the SSRE-effect in perticular - new data has shown that increased Serotonin-activity in several cortexes are implicated in a number of anxiety-disorders. Why no-one is looking at a drug like Tianeptine and how to improve it, to combat anxiety safely and effectively, is utterly beyond me!

 

There is TREMENDOUS marketing-potential in Tianeptine-derivatives! COMPLETE market-DOMINATION if the SSRE-effect turns out to be the best anxiolytic on Earth! COMPLETE!

 

Blind fools...
 

[stan08]

I hate opiates (tramadol, morphine), I have scripts for pain problems but never take them because they make me anxious when they stop working and dumb when they are working ... tianeptine does not have those effects luckily for me, quite the contrary at the therapeutic doses or less. If 12.5mg once a day causes issues then just give it up and look for a better treatment for the issue at hand (anxiety?)

 

I'm going to give it up.  It's just not worth the increase in anxiety, which is the opposite of why I'm taking it.  I'll probably just go back to taking 250-500 mg of phenibut each day.  I did that for almost two months and it worked great with decreasing anxiety and I didn't seem to have any rebound anxiety when stopping it. I don't really get any changes in mood at such a low dose but it does get rid of anxiety.

[jack black]

Has anyone tried using tianeptine with 5HTP?

It has been a WONDERFUL combination for me - I have noticed a significant difference in the effectiveness of tianeptine when combined with 5HTP. I used to use tianeptine 3X daily for depression/anxiety symptoms but now i am able to use this combination of 12.5mg tianeptine+50mg 5HTP as needed for depression and anxiety and it feels incredible.

If anyone has tried this combination I would love to hear their experience!

Also, what are your thoughts on the safety of using an SSRE in combination with 5HTP? Could this potentially cause seratonin syndrome or other problems?

 

kaitlyn,

are you still doing it? i started the combo a couple of weeks ago and it works much better than either of them alone. any problems in long term use?

 

[jroseland]

Review of Tianeptine: Undeserved Happiness

A Biohacker Report on the Antidepressant

The anecdotal reports of Tianeptine led me to believe that it’s an antidepressant with cumulative effects. So I’ve been taking 2 little capsules of Tianeptine a day and it’s a pretty subtle effect but I think I like it, although I didn’t experience any pronounced cumulative effects.

It adds a background hum of happiness. The best way I can describe it, if you’ve ever done good ecstasy or MDMA and you just had this feeling of inner happiness and satisfaction. It’s like that, although not to such an intense degree minus the really pro-social effects of MDMA. I didn’t find myself being impetuously affectionate with everyone. The effect half life seems a little short, I notice a subtle optimism for about 3–4 hours after dosing.

 

Tianeptine is not particularly great for my concentration and staying focused on a task. The real way to tell the difference between a true focus drug and merely a mood enhancer is doing the breath counting during mediation; while on Tianeptine I am not as capable of strong persistent focus. Although, while meditating the mood enhancement effects of Tianeptine is more noticeable and pleasurable but I’m definitely not the same tour de force of concentration on Tianeptine that I am on Modafinil or Caballo. Some tranquilizing Nootropics can be great for creativity or a productive writing session but not this one.

I did combine it with 5-HTP which is a cofactor that stacks well with Tianeptine according to several Biohacker accounts I read online and there wasn’t much of noticeable effect. My stomach actually got a little upset to so it’s unlikely that I’ll stack these two again.

 

Tianeptine plus a Racetam or another Nootropic that you find really motivating would make a good stack. As the energizing Nootropic would offset the lackadaisical mindset that Tianeptine puts you in but you would still get that nice feel good background buzz.

I imagine Tianeptine would be a great drug to use if I was like one of these stressed out people who really needs to take a vacation and then when they finally do take a vacation they are freaking out about little things. I do meditation so I’m able to properly relax on command, but I’ll probably use some Tianeptine next time I go on vacation and really need to get away from it all.

As I get older I get more stoic and I see happiness as a whole lot less worthy goal. Happiness should be a mere side effect of one’s efforts. To barrow from the Declaration of Independence:
We hold these truths to be sacred & undeniable; that all men are created equal & independent, that from that equal creation they derive rights inherent & inalienable, among which are the preservation of life, & liberty, & the pursuit of happiness

Well…
I’ll preserve life by Biohacking myself for longevity and vitality.
I’ll preserve liberty by acting like and man of thought and thinking like a man of action.
Happiness I’ll pursue by being a disciplined ethical hedonist, but happiness will find me if I devote myself vigorously to life and liberty.
Tianeptine is one of the better pharmacological happiness hacks I’ve tried but It’s not happiness I’ve earned, it’s just happiness I swallow 10 milligrams at a time. So I don’t see myself making a habit out of using this one.

Edited by jroseland, 25 December 2016 - 02:52 PM.

[horus]

Been using tianeptine for a couple of months and it still seems to be working.  30 mg in the morning and no more than 20 mg late afternoon.  Taking more than that in the evening definitely interfers with sleep.  Phenibut at 500 mg seems a better choice at night as a sleep aid.

 

Although it works better than other SSRI's I've tried, I wouldn't say tianeptine was the best.  It does seem to be the best that is available to me now.

Before they re-scheduled tramadol as a dangerous drug, I managed to stay depression-free for two years, using only two 50mg tramadol a day.

After two years, they started to lose their effectiveness, so instead of increasing the dosage, I began cycling on and off.  Before my supply ran out I was using only about 5 a week.( 2 on Monday, 1 on Tuesday, 1 on Wednesday, 1/2 on Thursday, 1/2 on Friday, none on weekends.)

 

Tramodol is a drug I miss greatly.  Besides knocking out depression and anxiety, it lowered my blood pressure and helped me to sleep (especially with a little valerian root taken at night), cleared up my sinuses and helped me lose weight due to appetite suppression.  I know there are issues with addiction as I tried to go cold turkey after using for 1 year and found out the hard way.  The second time I decided to quit, I was able to taper off over a months time relatively easily (100 mg for 1 week, 75 mg for 2nd week, 50 mg for 3rd week, 25 mg for 4th week.)

 

Not sure what I'll do if the tianeptine stops working for me.  Honestly, 5 -7 tramodols per week doesn't seem extreme or dangerous.  I sure wish I could find a reasonable doctor to prescribe them for me for off-label usage  However, with the current anti-opiod hysteria ramping up in the country that doesn't seem too likely anytime soon.

[Bmathis0208]

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[Bmathis0208]

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Please contact me asap Metabolic bmathis0208 at gmail or sixonezero 59611sixtwo
Gel coating - for me it's more like a warm blanket
Mood swings - made a grown man cry, but I found the increased mood swings were accompanied by increased tolerance to handle them
Stabilization of mood - occurred only after the third week for me
Decrease in compulsive/addictive behavior and improved impulse control - I quit smoking
Dreams - definitely more vivid, and after reading your log, I realized that I haven't had a nightmare or woken up in a bad mood since being on tianeptine

[airplanepeanuts]

I have tried Tianeptine a couple of times. I like the effects but unfortunately I get left  side chest pains from it.  Never get those otherwise.

Does anyone have an informed opinion if those might go away with prolonged use?

[Mind_Paralysis]

I have tried Tianeptine a couple of times. I like the effects but unfortunately I get left  side chest pains from it.  Never get those otherwise.

Does anyone have an informed opinion if those might go away with prolonged use?

 

Have you done any blood-pressure / heart-rate measurements while taking Tianeptine? If you get heart-problems from Tianeptine, then I wouldn't take it - but make sure that's what's happening.

 

The chest-pains could be several things, but two of the more serious ones are as follows:

 

1. High blood-pressure - these could be caused by the ever-so-weak stimulating properties of Tianeptine. Have you felt any chest-pains from high doses of coffee or from another stimulating antidepressant? Something like an NRI, SNRI or Bupropion.

 

2. cardiac arrhythmia
This is one of the most serious of all side-effects from the TCA's, which Tianeptine is closely related to - however, as I understand it, this has only been observed in regular TCA's, there isn't actually any proof that Tianeptine can cause this - the fact that Tianeptine has completely atypical properties compared to regular TCA's certainly makes it less plausible. As I understand it, the mechanism is alas, also unknown - most TCA's however, have anticholinergic side-effects, so I'm guessing it may be because of that.

 

 

Stop Tianeptine for a while, and then get a blood-pressure measurement device and see if you can find anything off, when taking Tianeptine.

[normalizing]

could be the serotonin effect. i get chest pains from any serotonin boosting drug. i remember MDMA caused severed chest pains for a long time, and alcohol and various other drugs do too

[airplanepeanuts]

Have you done any blood-pressure / heart-rate measurements while taking Tianeptine? If you get heart-problems from Tianeptine, then I wouldn't take it - but make sure that's what's happening.

 

The chest-pains could be several things, but two of the more serious ones are as follows:

 

1. High blood-pressure - these could be caused by the ever-so-weak stimulating properties of Tianeptine. Have you felt any chest-pains from high doses of coffee or from another stimulating antidepressant? Something like an NRI, SNRI or Bupropion.

 

2. cardiac arrhythmia
This is one of the most serious of all side-effects from the TCA's, which Tianeptine is closely related to - however, as I understand it, this has only been observed in regular TCA's, there isn't actually any proof that Tianeptine can cause this - the fact that Tianeptine has completely atypical properties compared to regular TCA's certainly makes it less plausible. As I understand it, the mechanism is alas, also unknown - most TCA's however, have anticholinergic side-effects, so I'm guessing it may be because of that.

 

 

Stop Tianeptine for a while, and then get a blood-pressure measurement device and see if you can find anything off, when taking Tianeptine.

 

 

Thanks. My blood pressure is fine normally, but I haven't measured it while on Tianeptine.

I never get any chest pains from coffee and I drink tons. I remember getting a similar problem with Ritalin a few years ago though.

 

The chest pain from Tianeptine stayed for a week or two after I stopped taking it. It wasn't even any kind of a high dose, just as precribed and only for a few days.

[Mind_Paralysis]

could be the serotonin effect. i get chest pains from any serotonin boosting drug. i remember MDMA caused severed chest pains for a long time, and alcohol and various other drugs do too

 

Tianeptine doesn't boost serotonin though - it actually, in some respects, inhibits serotonergic signalling in the peripheral nervous system, it would seem. (lowers blood-plasma levels of serotonin)

It certainly doesn't affect serotonin the same way as MDMA or SSRI's, that's for sure.

 

 

It's been proven to increase dopaminergic and norepinephrinergic signalling though, possibly through it's opioid-effects - and some people do find it rather stimulating.

 

Not me though - but I've got SCT, I won't respond the same way you neurotypicals will.

[Ben]

(snipped) see above

 

 

Very similar experience to me.

 

Chilled out feeling on the sodium (no doubt the opiate effect). Lasts only a couple of hours. Lackadaisical is the exact word I would use too. I am less focussed. I care less. And I work less.

 

I would use this in a similar way to what you suggest as well:

"Vacation" use. Taking it accutely when needed or when very stressed out and you don't need to get much done---as a sort of break.