27 replies to this topic

[health_nutty]

Piracetam (but not Aniracetam nor Pramiracetam) can give me horrible irritability. Something in my routine has changed to allow me to take 800mg twice a day with no irritability (usually). Here is what i know:

1) Increasing ACh does not improve irritability. I've tried all the choline donors even to the point where I got a ACh headache.
2) Exercise can cure the irritability
3) Low blood sugar can make the irritability worse.
4) Alcohol completely removes the irritability (at a dose of 1-2 drinks).
5) It was much worse when I was low carb (now I'm gluten free, but am eating brown rice and potatoes).
6) Could be a coincidence but I tried 5g of l-glutamine yesterday morning and the irritability that was gone for so long came back.. and it was baaaad. It is the only change I've made recently.

My best guess is that Piracetam is increasing the glucose uptake in my brain. If the glucose gets depleted, then irritability ensues.

[JChief]

Thanks for the report. Regarding glutamine, as you said it could be a coincidence but that symptom was something I personally wanted to watch out for after a bad combination with ani/pira earlier in the week and would not have expected L-Glutamine to make it worse. Hmmm

[truboy]

health_nutty Piracetam also cause irritability for me.
just piracetam, and piracetam+choline citrate makes me edgy...

piracetam + lecithin - better in that regard(taken with 2egg yolks even better) but lecithin can result in mood swings(at least for me)

I also tried adding l-glutamine(in my case it was 2grams) but latter in the day that resulted in increased anxiety....

[chrono]

How long have you been taking piracetam, and on what schedule? The experience is modulated with increasing duration, though I'm not sure if that can include irritability.

[truboy]

I remember from my experience 200-300mg of L_trypothan at night before bed resulted in better Piracetam experience. Also after trying piracetam with 2egg yolks i never take it with out them.

So you can try like this:

Before Bed 200-300mg of L_trypothan
Morning 2 egg yolks + 800mg Piracetam + lecithin/choline

And let us know how it goes....

[health_nutty]

I'm going to try giving up Piracetam for a while and just take Pramiracetam. I've gotten no noticable benifits (at best I could take it without irritibility). I'm going to quit being stubborn and just admit Piracetam isn't for me.

[JChief]

Forgot about this thread. I too have noted more irritability and was apparently sudden (within last two weeks only). Even though I am no longer taking 2g twice per day. Got it down to 800mg twice per day but the irritability would persist to a lesser degree. The worst after I would wake up. My sleep cycles are a bit out of whack as I have been working the night shift. Maybe that has something to do with it? But all of a sudden this past week it's been an issue. And I guess I've ignored it but for the entire 1st month this was never an issue. I decided I am going to quit all racetams (and noopept) and give it a rest. I have felt fine personally but my patience seems to wear thin and I'm apparently coming across as a "dick" to my wife which I am going to do my best to correct I mentioned appx a week and a half ago that after taking 2g piracetam and 2 hours later taking 750mg aniracetam that I had the worst bout of irritability ever. That was the first time irritability ever crossed my mind really. I almost left work for the day. Figured it was a one off issue. But upon further self-examination I am a bit short with people. So I wish I knew a root cause. But for now I am giving them up and in the meantime am going to take this opportunity to try uridine+dha and see how this affects mood/well-being. After a month or so I'll see if I get back the magic. I don't know if it's the noopept or the piracetam but I still notice the positive effects with speech and magic typing skills (lol) so I wonder if maybe my 2 month stint with the nootropics have pushed a reset button and cleared out some cobwebs. I'll call it "after-glow"

Update: consequently I stopped Alpha GPC about the same time...... hmmmmmmmm currently I am taking no choline. Connection? GPC kind of depressed the mood for me occasionally. I took it solely for GH support for work-outs. Ran out and didn't buy more.

Update 2: I also was using cannabis often early on during my piractam trial (that's when I discovered they work great together; reduced anxiety etc) so who knows if I would have been irritable if I'd have not smoked any.

Edited by JChief, 23 November 2011 - 12:58 PM.

[chrono]

Update: consequently I stopped Alpha GPC about the same time...... hmmmmmmmm currently I am taking no choline. Connection? GPC kind of depressed the mood for me occasionally. I took it solely for GH support for work-outs. Ran out and didn't buy more.

I'm usually a very placid person. The only time I've ever noticed emotional irritability due to piracetam was back before I got the choline sorted out. And I feel like I've read about that from other people as well, but I'm not positive.

If you don't feel like ordering GPC again, maybe give ALCAR a try...a bottle can usually be found very cheaply locally, though getting it in bulk at our usual sources is still cheaper.

[JChief]

Thanks, chrono. For now I am going to see how long this racetam/noopept "after-glow" lasts. I am now curious to see what changes I note as I come off of them and will experiment with uridine/DHA. When I give the racetams a go again I will re-incorporate the choline I'm thinkin'. The desired mindstate on these things is quite the moving target eh? Hehe

Edited by JChief, 23 November 2011 - 01:47 PM.

[Introspecta]

Is ALCAR alone enough of a source of choline for Pircetam? I've read conflicting reports.

Also I'll just chime in here and say that I've never been irritable on Piracetam unless I added CDP Choline, Alpha GPC, Pramiracetam, Aniracetam, Noopet, or Oxiracetam

Piracetam Alone has never caused irritability. There are many different factors in your life that can cause it but as far as supplements go it is one of the ones that I've NEVER gotten it from which is interesting to me. Hearing about it from other people is shocking and I don't want to dismiss it because everyone is different but I wonder if their irritability is coming from the other supplements they are taking.

[maxwatt]

Aniracetam does increase glutamine levels in the brain, which i s part of the mechanism by which it enhances memory acquisition.* I'd assume the the other 'tams are variations on this theme, so glutamine affecting this is not surprising,.

*Cogitex screened the 'tams for use as memory enhancers, found aniracetam most effective, and used the molecule as a starting point in developing drugs for the purpose.

[health_nutty]

Piracetam Alone has never caused irritability. There are many different factors in your life that can cause it but as far as supplements go it is one of the ones that I've NEVER gotten it from which is interesting to me. Hearing about it from other people is shocking and I don't want to dismiss it because everyone is different but I wonder if their irritability is coming from the other supplements they are taking.

I can tell you with 100% confidence it is the Piracetam causing the irritability (and the effects are dose dependent!). I find it extremely odd that Piracetam effects me this way, but even relatively higher doses of Ani (1g) or Pram (500mg) do not.

[Introspecta]

Oh thats too bad then. Its weird the higher the dose I take the more serene I feel and less anxious. I used to here people say piracetam made them sleepy, some said it made them tired. Its crazy how different of reactions people have with supplements but then again in reality it is not due to our complex systems and how No two human body system is 100% alike

[health_nutty]

Oh thats too bad then. Its weird the higher the dose I take the more serene I feel and less anxious. I used to here people say piracetam made them sleepy, some said it made them tired. Its crazy how different of reactions people have with supplements but then again in reality it is not due to our complex systems and how No two human body system is 100% alike

I know, I REALLY wanted to like it (the cheapest, most studied racetam).

[JChief]

Piracetam Alone has never caused irritability. There are many different factors in your life that can cause it but as far as supplements go it is one of the ones that I've NEVER gotten it from which is interesting to me. Hearing about it from other people is shocking and I don't want to dismiss it because everyone is different but I wonder if their irritability is coming from the other supplements they are taking.

I can tell you with 100% confidence it is the Piracetam causing the irritability (and the effects are dose dependent!). I find it extremely odd that Piracetam effects me this way, but even relatively higher doses of Ani (1g) or Pram (500mg) do not.

I did want to remind you that I experienced NO irritability for about a month and a half or so. Only after taking noopept along side it did this happen PLUS I stopped taking GPC at the same time. Lots of variables at play here. Did you get irritable from the get go? Because like I said I didn't have those issues with piracetam for many weeks before I started to recognize some issues. Also, noopept I tried for awhile. You can date it from my thread several weeks back. Irritability came on just a couple weeks ago (first with the aniracetam dose which I took at random times for a boost during long shifts) and perhaps Noopept exhibits those effects after taking it for a couple weeks or so? All a guess. But of course lots of people claim piracetam causes irritability. All the racetams are purported to have this possible side effect.

Edited by JChief, 23 November 2011 - 06:36 PM.

[JChief]

Oh thats too bad then. Its weird the higher the dose I take the more serene I feel and less anxious. I used to here people say piracetam made them sleepy, some said it made them tired. Its crazy how different of reactions people have with supplements but then again in reality it is not due to our complex systems and how No two human body system is 100% alike

Piracetam is very high doses makes me somewhat sleepy too. 3g will do this. Not anything overbearing but if I am bored a nap is usually what I'd settle on while taking those doses. Nothing too groggy though.

[health_nutty]

Piracetam Alone has never caused irritability. There are many different factors in your life that can cause it but as far as supplements go it is one of the ones that I've NEVER gotten it from which is interesting to me. Hearing about it from other people is shocking and I don't want to dismiss it because everyone is different but I wonder if their irritability is coming from the other supplements they are taking.

I can tell you with 100% confidence it is the Piracetam causing the irritability (and the effects are dose dependent!). I find it extremely odd that Piracetam effects me this way, but even relatively higher doses of Ani (1g) or Pram (500mg) do not.

I did want to remind you that I experienced NO irritability for about a month and a half or so. Only after taking noopept along side it did this happen PLUS I stopped taking GPC at the same time. Lots of variables at play here. Did you get irritable from the get go? Because like I said I didn't have those issues with piracetam for many weeks before I started to recognize some issues. Also, noopept I tried for awhile. You can date it from my thread several weeks back. Irritability came on just a couple weeks ago (first with the aniracetam dose which I took at random times for a boost during long shifts) and perhaps Noopept exhibits those effects after taking it for a couple weeks or so? All a guess. But of course lots of people claim piracetam causes irritability. All the racetams are purported to have this possible side effect.

Yes, I had irritability from the start.

[JChief]

Yeah we differed in that regard. But I am in no way discounting that piracetam may have contributed. However I am leaning toward a combination of things. Possibly noopept taken for weeks at varying doses eyeballed which could have meant I was ingesting too much for too long and ran into some issues (even though I wasn't megadosing I'd say I was in the ballpark of 40-60mg per day). It should be repeated that if you want to get serious about taking noopept you must invest in a scale to be accurate. Maybe stopping GPC all contributed too. Who knows. What I do know is that this break will be just as much of a learning experience as trying them in the first place. I by no means rely on these things to function. I am merely interested in their effects.

Which brings me to another thought: it's no wonder piracetam and the other nootropics are not rampantly known even though it has been around for some time. Many people have varying options of what it actually does haha. Honestly I feel that the racetams merely improve thought processes, make me a bit more articulate and verbally fluent. It also assists in writing as well. This is the main benefit. So in an even shorter summary: It improves my ability to communicate effectively. That's impressive enough for me. The vivid colors, interesting dreams, enhanced music perception, subtle enhanced mood, synergy with cannabis etc. are all nice but not really the reason why I'd continue to take it. I see racetams as benefiting me on the job and in my social life (assuming no irritability lol). Piracetam also lends a bit of a creative boost. Ah I won't get into all of it again. Perhaps another time. Haha.

Edited by JChief, 23 November 2011 - 07:00 PM.

[SuperjackDid_]

Seem more Piracetam puzzle solved by L-Glutamic acid .

[genghiz]

Piracetam (but not Aniracetam nor Pramiracetam) can give me horrible irritability. Something in my routine has changed to allow me to take 800mg twice a day with no irritability (usually). Here is what i know:

1) Increasing ACh does not improve irritability. I've tried all the choline donors even to the point where I got a ACh headache.
2) Exercise can cure the irritability
3) Low blood sugar can make the irritability worse.
4) Alcohol completely removes the irritability (at a dose of 1-2 drinks).
5) It was much worse when I was low carb (now I'm gluten free, but am eating brown rice and potatoes).
6) Could be a coincidence but I tried 5g of l-glutamine yesterday morning and the irritability that was gone for so long came back.. and it was baaaad. It is the only change I've made recently.

My best guess is that Piracetam is increasing the glucose uptake in my brain. If the glucose gets depleted, then irritability ensues.

You may be on to something, I can see how the reasons you listed support the low glucose theory

2) exercise releases glycogen from deposits in the body
3) obv
4) alcohol (ethanol) is the first type of fuel that if available the body utilizes, after alcohol is carbs then fat.
5) obv


I was eating a ketogenic diet (less than 50g carb per day) for 6+ months and I would snap at anything. Normally I'm a calm person.

Also I read somewhere that, according to statistics, judges are more lenient and are more likely to give parole after lunch, due to carbing up.

[SuperjackDid_]

So safe take Piracetam with Alcohol everyday ?I might restart Piracetam again

[health_nutty]

Piracetam (but not Aniracetam nor Pramiracetam) can give me horrible irritability. Something in my routine has changed to allow me to take 800mg twice a day with no irritability (usually). Here is what i know:

1) Increasing ACh does not improve irritability. I've tried all the choline donors even to the point where I got a ACh headache.
2) Exercise can cure the irritability
3) Low blood sugar can make the irritability worse.
4) Alcohol completely removes the irritability (at a dose of 1-2 drinks).
5) It was much worse when I was low carb (now I'm gluten free, but am eating brown rice and potatoes).
6) Could be a coincidence but I tried 5g of l-glutamine yesterday morning and the irritability that was gone for so long came back.. and it was baaaad. It is the only change I've made recently.

My best guess is that Piracetam is increasing the glucose uptake in my brain. If the glucose gets depleted, then irritability ensues.

You may be on to something, I can see how the reasons you listed support the low glucose theory

2) exercise releases glycogen from deposits in the body
3) obv
4) alcohol (ethanol) is the first type of fuel that if available the body utilizes, after alcohol is carbs then fat.
5) obv


I was eating a ketogenic diet (less than 50g carb per day) for 6+ months and I would snap at anything. Normally I'm a calm person.

Also I read somewhere that, according to statistics, judges are more lenient and are more likely to give parole after lunch, due to carbing up.

Btw, this is a pretty old thread. In the end I had to ditch Piracetam due to the irritibility issues. I only noticed strong negative effects (no positive effects noticed). Aniracetam didn't cause irritibility, but it caused brain fog sometimes (not worth the benefits). I'm now taking Pram, which is amazing. At first I didn't think it caused irritibility at all. Now I notice it if I take high doses too many days in a row (500mg twice a day for several days). I've actually settled in at 100mg twice a day of Pram.

[prunk]

Oh damn, sounds so good this Pram. Test that stuff must thy, shall then speak experiences and not lie.

[health_nutty]

I think the key all this time is magnesium. I can't believe I didn't try this before. I thought of trying it and it completely eliminated my noopept irritibillity.

I was curious so I did a seach for Piracetam and magnesium and found the following page:
http://smart-drugs.n...-nootropics.htm

Since Piracetam-nootropics act (in part) through subtly amplifying neuronal electrical excitability, they will tend to increase the activity of other drugs that modify neural activity taken simultaneously. This in turn may increase both the positive action of the other drug, as well as possibly lead to the occasional nootropic over-stimulation effects. Thus even caffeine may be sufficiently stimulating to bring on the “nootropic over stimulation effect,” especially in those very sensitive to caffeine. A key normal regulator of neuronal sensitivity is the essential mineral, Magnesium. Dietary surveys in the Western world routinely show most people to be at least marginally Mg deficient, with many getting half or less of the recommended dietary Magnesium intake (Wester 1987).
Thus, the occasional over stimulation seen with Piracetam-nootropics may simply evidence an undetected synaptic Magnesium deficiency, and Magnesium supplementation may provide a natural remedy to minimize such over stimulation

[health_nutty]

Unfortunately I don't have any Piracetam left to see if magnesium would for Piracetam. I'll bet it would, because the irritibility feels the same.

[brainslugged]

each time I take a break from piracetam and restart it after a few weeks, I become what you may be able to call irritable.

I get restless and want to do things, like a lot of pressure to do activities (like to go places, do things, explore things, participate in activities, etc) but also sometimes kinda a rushed feeling and wanting to be left alone because other people are bothering me. Overall, it is actually kinda similar to the pressure to write that occurs on piracetam, but universally applied. After about a month the feeling is gone and I am left with the more subtle effects of increased writing pressure and general mood boost and clarity.

The initial pressure did not happen when I first started, but I have taken 2 breaks since starting, and each time, the exact same symptoms have occurred, stronger the 2nd time than the first.

Have you taken it for more than a month or two? It may even out after some time.

It is well worth the initial bump to get over, and the irritability can be good. The pressure can overpower anxiety or hopelessness feelings, for example, I was able [forced by the piracetam, really] to ask a girl on a date. Of course, the anxiety and feeling of negativity weren't helped by the piracetam, so I failed the date pretty badly, but the overwhelming urge to do something forced me out of the house which is an almost impossible task, and it was a pretty therapeutic moment that helped me to face some fears. So don't fully discount "irritability"

[machete234]

I get restless and want to do things, like a lot of pressure to do activities (like to go places, do things, explore things, participate in activities, etc) but also sometimes kinda a rushed feeling and wanting to be left alone because other people are bothering me. Overall, it is actually kinda similar to the pressure to write that occurs on piracetam, but universally applied. After about a month the feeling is gone and I am left with the more subtle effects of increased writing pressure and general mood boost and clarity.

I had the pressure that I should do something too but at the same time decision making was really painful and almost impossible, which is a bad combination.
Also I got too frustrated to stay on a task.
Unfortunately I cannot hang in there for a month until this maybe gets better.

Heres what happened in the last days after I gave piracetam the last chance:

I took dosages of 3g twice a day on the weekend and on monday I took my last 1g of the piracetam.
Yesterday and today I felt a strong feeling of anger and I couldnt react to frustrating things like an adult.
I had to stop talking to anybody so I dont snap at them.
People who are sort of extraverted and talk too much and too loud at you were not bearable I had violent fantasies about punching them in the face but of course I kept in control.

I also obsessed about things that happened weeks ago and which are essentailly minor things where I felt not treated in the right way.
I dont have a choline source around but taking 500mg of phenibut and some ashwagandha solved the issue for now.

I had these symptoms at least 3 times when I tried Piracetam and I always had this problem that I became irritable after a few days, back then I tried different things like soy lecitine, bitartrate and DMAE
With aniracetam there was never such an issue.

Should you feel overwelming hatred, self hatred, depression, hopelessness dont kill yourself its likely the piracetam.

This time I thought maybe this anger is part of something repressed in me and maybe its worthwhile to look into it and try to meditate on it somehow.Maybe the anger is there for a reason and there is a lot of potential and energy for personal change, I really thought that but I capitulate again after this day.

I will let my brain get back to normal within a few days and get my frustration/agression tolerance back.

Edited by machete234, 10 July 2013 - 07:35 PM.

[norepinephrine]

I think the key all this time is magnesium. I can't believe I didn't try this before. I thought of trying it and it completely eliminated my noopept irritibillity.

I was curious so I did a seach for Piracetam and magnesium and found the following page:
http://smart-drugs.n...-nootropics.htm

Since Piracetam-nootropics act (in part) through subtly amplifying neuronal electrical excitability, they will tend to increase the activity of other drugs that modify neural activity taken simultaneously. This in turn may increase both the positive action of the other drug, as well as possibly lead to the occasional nootropic over-stimulation effects. Thus even caffeine may be sufficiently stimulating to bring on the “nootropic over stimulation effect,” especially in those very sensitive to caffeine. A key normal regulator of neuronal sensitivity is the essential mineral, Magnesium. Dietary surveys in the Western world routinely show most people to be at least marginally Mg deficient, with many getting half or less of the recommended dietary Magnesium intake (Wester 1987).
Thus, the occasional over stimulation seen with Piracetam-nootropics may simply evidence an undetected synaptic Magnesium deficiency, and Magnesium supplementation may provide a natural remedy to minimize such over stimulation

Thanks for posting this. I really thing magnesium is an underrated nutrient in terms of optimizing responses to the various nootropics promoted here.

I've been able to drastically improve my response to piracetam via sorting out choline intake (wherein I found out the hard way that I don't need to supplement anything extra outside of ALCAR, given my diet), keeping overall racetam dosages on the conservative end (i.e., 800mg at a time, 2-4x daily) and ensuring high-quality calcium and magnesium sources are taken daily (homemade kefir for the former, magnesium malate for the latter).

It's unfortunate that the majority of mainstream practitioners don't have much education regarding magnesium deficiency symptoms, let alone a readily available, reasonably priced test to detect cellular levels.