85 replies to this topic

[missminni]

I am re-posting the COA for TA 65 that Anthony previously provided and has since had removed
under the guise that it can possibly be manipulated. huh? any document can possibly be manipulated...please.
The only thing that is being manipulated is the information that you are receiving and for very obvious reasons.
Prior to being associated with TASciences
Anthony was very proud of this particular document and posted for all to marvel.
Now that he has a business relationship with them he wants it removed. You can draw whatever conclusion you
want but AFAIC I will continue to publish this document in the name of truth for those who seek it.


BTW it was removed from my post without my permission.
That really gives pause to the veracity of this forum.


[RevGenetics has released a new version of this lab analysis (with the same content); the file can be downloaded here, and the reader software here]

Edited by chrono, 23 November 2011 - 12:32 AM.

[Anthony_Loera]

Missminni,

1- The CoA is copyrighted property.
2- I was going to replace it with a link or another pdf (and this was communicated previously to you).

My issue is not about any relationship with anybody, it is about securing copyright for our property. It will be replaced by a link or document that is more secure, and help avoid this issue in the future. Since you certainly only see this in your own manner, I will ask the folks here to take it down for now while I get a new secure pdf or link to the information. Longecity Admin's please take the CoA down again until the new secure solution is available.

Thanks
A

[maxwatt]

I do not see a copyright notice on the PDF, and if anyone owns the intellectual property I think it might be AACL labs. I question if it is even copyrightable in the forst place. Any questions of veracity can be addressed by communicating with AACL. Replacing with a secure link is no more secure than the PDF, and can still be manipulated by a determined hacker. Why is this so important?

Edited by maxwatt, 21 November 2011 - 06:26 PM.

[missminni]

Missminni,

1- The CoA is copyrighted property.
2- I was going to replace it with a link or another pdf (and this was communicated previously to you).

My issue is not about any relationship with anybody, it is about securing copyright for our property. It will be replaced by a link or document that is more secure, and help avoid this issue in the future. Since you certainly only see this in your own manner, I will ask the folks here to take it down for now while I get a new secure pdf or link to the information. Longecity Admin's please take the CoA down again until the new secure solution is available.

Thanks
A

Anthony, you posted that COA. I just reposted what you posted. You didn't mention a copyright when you posted it. Why suddenly has this become such an
issue that you are panicking and having my posts altered without waiting for me to respond. This is your doing. You posted the COA, which supported the fact
that TA65 was in fact mainly cycloastragenol. Why would you want to now hide that information?
Don't you think people who are taking un-vetted products that could affect their health adversely as well as positively should have this information? Why would you want to hide it now when before it was your pleasure to reveal. And why should you have the authority to have my posts altered? Have you actually bought this forum. It appears from your tone you have. I hope that's not the case. That COA is not copyrighted, you yourself posted it here and now you want to remove all evidence of it and fast too. That makes me even more suspicious of your intent...and more determined to have it remain.
If you have it removed I will re-post it again which will only bring more attention to the issue you are trying so hard to hide.

[mikeinnaples]

Nope, no copywrite notice on the PDF. I also second Max ....WTF is this really about?

[mikeinnaples]

Anthony, you posted that COA. I just reposted what you posted. You didn't mention a copyright when you posted it. Why suddenly has this become such an
issue that you are panicking and having my posts altered without waiting for me to respond. This is your doing. You posted the COA, which supported the fact
that TA65 was in fact mainly cycloastragenol. Why would you want to now hide that information?
Don't you think people who are taking un-vetted products that could affect their health adversely as well as positively should have this information? Why would you want to hide it now when before it was your pleasure to reveal. And why should you have the authority to have my posts altered? Have you actually bought this forum. It appears from your tone you have. I hope that's not the case. That COA is not copyrighted, you yourself posted it here and now you want to remove all evidence of it and fast too. That makes me even more suspicious of your intent...and more determined to have it remain.
If you have it removed I will re-post it again which will only bring more attention to the issue you are trying so hard to hide.

Missminni has an extremely valid point.

[mikeinnaples]

TA-65 according to the COA is:

Astragaloside IV - .27mg / serving

Cycloastragenol

• Astragenol - .01mg / serving
• Cycloastraganol - 5.44mg / serving

Basically TA-65 at the time of testing was grossly overpriced Cycolastraganol

[missminni]

TA-65 according to the COA is:

Astragaloside IV - .27mg / serving

Cycloastragenol

• Astragenol - .01mg / serving
• Cycloastraganol - 5.44mg / serving

Basically TA-65 at the time of testing was grossly overpriced Cycolastraganol

Yes, exactly and Anthony was very happy for all to see this fact. Now that he is selling TA65 he's not so happy about it.
That's pretty easy to figure out.
Getting information from somebody who profits from the information they do or don't decide to give is unethical at best.

[Anthony_Loera]

Guys,

it makes me sad that you are now attempting to find something nefarious in our actions to protect the CoA's from being edited like it was done here:
http://www.longecity...rmissioncredit/

Call me paranoid, but that is my objective. I had already expressed to Missminni we would replace the very information that we asked her to take out with something more secure to prevent editing, and had chrono finally take out. Before she even knew that I had asked chrono to take it out, Missminni replied to my IM:

Missminni said:

What a strange premise to make in order to remove it...that it might be manipulated...
anything one puts up can be manipulated if someone wants to do that and there's no way to prevent that.
As far as I'm concerned the only one who is manipulating is Anthony. I want the document to remain as is
attached to my post. If it's removed expect a tirade from me that will be public.

and... now we have these posts.

You guys do realize that if I can't protect my reports... that I may not make them available anymore? Say like the 25:1, or the 50:1 astragalus extract reports (oh you better copy those missminni!), or the upcoming report on Product B from an independent source? Or the older reports on resveratrol purity, micronization pictures using an electron microscope to compare resveratrol particles. Now why the heck would I make those available if I had nefarious intentions? Wow how the tide turns...

I am truly sad now that I think about it.
It's time for me to take a walk... this is very.. yes very upsetting.

A

[mikeinnaples]

I know you are upset about the pissing match you got into here: http://www.longecity...rmissioncredit/

The bottom line is that if you post something on the internet it can be manipulated by someone. The only way to protect your reports, so to speak, is to make them inaccessible. You need to calm down and take a look at how you are coming across to people. The petty comments like this:

or the 50:1 astragalus extract reports (oh you better copy those missminni!)

...are absolutely not helping.

[mikeinnaples]

About the best you can probably do is change them to an image format and watermark the hell out of it with a Revgenetics Logo ....but honestly, if someone is determined to hijack your report, not even that will stop them.

[mrkosh1]

I just think all of this fighting is getting in the way of finding the best telomerase inducers.

With lives on the line, I wish everyone would be willing to put aside the past, and negotiate a way forward.

[missminni]

About the best you can probably do is change them to an image format and watermark the hell out of it with a Revgenetics Logo ....but honestly, if someone is determined to hijack your report, not even that will stop them.

The pdf is already an image format
Anthony
the fact that the copy attached to my post was not altered in any way...makes it even more puzzling that it's removal was demanded.
I can understand wanting to get proper credit for origin of the document...but why now make it's very existence an offense? Does it no
longer serve your purpose? It appears I am not the only one who wonders about this. I think there is a conflict of interest and the forum
should not be your tool.
We are here to share information, not propaganda.

[mikeinnaples]

The pdf is already an image format

Not quite true.

[missminni]

I just think all of this fighting is getting in the way of finding the best telomerase inducers.

With lives on the line, I wish everyone would be willing to put aside the past, and negotiate a way forward.

from what I understand, the best inducers are a
embodied in a healthy life style
Aspirin (why I don't know but I did read that at a lab that did telomere testing)
Vitamins, yoga, meditation,
and aerobic exercise all help to maintain telomere length.
It's common sense.
The fountain of youth is your brain.

[missminni]

The pdf is already an image format

Not quite true.

oh you're right. I see that now. it's very complicated.

[maxwatt]

No matter how you protect it, if you can see the image on yoUR SCREEN, IT CAN BE CAptured and ut in an image file and further manipulated with photo-shop et al.

Or you can simply make your own spreadsheet, write in the numbers by hand. Easy enough to get the logos off the web and put them in the spreadsheet. Then pdf the spreadsheet.
Or if you want to be clever and defeat steganographic watermarks, print the damn thing then scan it into an image file.

[Anthony_Loera]

the fact that the copy attached to my post was not altered in any way...makes it even more puzzling that it's removal was demanded.
I can understand wanting to get proper credit for origin of the document...but why now make it's very existence an offense?

Missminni,

Let's count how many times I have explained this to you shall we?
===============================================================================

1- IM - Sent 18 November 2011 - 03:17 PM

I am trying to delete copies of the copyrighted CoA for TA-65, and will replace them in the future with a COA that is more secure to prevent it's manipulation.

(A screenshot is posted called "Missminni-initial request.png")

2- Thread post at 10:48 AM:
http://www.longecity...post__p__486983

My issue is not about any relationship with anybody, it is about securing copyright for our property. It will be replaced by a link or document that is more secure, and help avoid this issue in the future.

3- Thread post at 1:08 PM:
http://www.longecity...post__p__487009

Guys,
it makes me sad that you are now attempting to find something nefarious in our actions to protect the CoA's from being edited like it was done here:
http://www.longecity...rmissioncredit/
Call me paranoid, but that is my objective. I had already expressed to Missminni we would replace the very information that we asked her to take out with something more secure to prevent editing, and had chrono finally take out.

===============================================================================

I have explained it 3 different times, and it appears that you don't understand or don't care to understand.

So here it is one last time:
The PDF needs to be secured, so that it is much less likely for folks to edit it or use it for nefarious purposes.

Do you now understand? Because I am running out of ways to communicate it to you.
A

Attached Files

•  Missminni-initial request.Png   67.86KB   12 downloads

Edited by Anthony_Loera, 21 November 2011 - 08:14 PM.

[mikeinnaples]

*sigh* you are so missing the point that you aren't going to be able ot secure anything.

[Anthony_Loera]

No matter how you protect it, if you can see the image on yoUR SCREEN, IT CAN BE CAptured and ut in an image file and further manipulated with photo-shop et al.

Or you can simply make your own spreadsheet, write in the numbers by hand. Easy enough to get the logos off the web and put them in the spreadsheet. Then pdf the spreadsheet.
Or if you want to be clever and defeat steganographic watermarks, print the damn thing then scan it into an image file.

Maxwatt,

I appreciate the feedback, but Isn't that for me, as the copyright holder, to deal with securing the document... at my own manner and expense, rather than taking your word for it that ... (I will paraphrase, because it sounds much better this way inmho... ) I have no chance in hell to to protect my copyrighted document? Since you are an expert at copyright, can you explain to me what the Berne copyright convention is, and what it means regarding copyrighted works? (you should check the part where it is not necessary for a copyrighted work to state it's copyrighted)

I understand the difficulty, but without the documented attempt... it certainly will be much harder to defend copyrights legally at a later time, should I need to because someone 'edited' the document.

A

[Anthony_Loera]

*sigh* you are so missing the point that you aren't going to be able ot secure anything.

No offense, but you are missing the point of defending a copyrighted work in a legal setting, by securing the document as best we can.

A

[missminni]

the fact that the copy attached to my post was not altered in any way...makes it even more puzzling that it's removal was demanded.
I can understand wanting to get proper credit for origin of the document...but why now make it's very existence an offense?

Missminni,

Let's count how many times I have explained this to you shall we?
===============================================================================

1- IM - Sent 18 November 2011 - 03:17 PM

I am trying to delete copies of the copyrighted CoA for TA-65, and will replace them in the future with a COA that is more secure to prevent it's manipulation.

(A screenshot is posted called "Missminni-initial request.png")

2- Thread post at 10:48 AM:
http://www.longecity...post__p__486983

My issue is not about any relationship with anybody, it is about securing copyright for our property. It will be replaced by a link or document that is more secure, and help avoid this issue in the future.

3- Thread post at 1:08 PM:
http://www.longecity...post__p__487009

Guys,
it makes me sad that you are now attempting to find something nefarious in our actions to protect the CoA's from being edited like it was done here:
http://www.longecity...rmissioncredit/
Call me paranoid, but that is my objective. I had already expressed to Missminni we would replace the very information that we asked her to take out with something more secure to prevent editing, and had chrono finally take out.

===============================================================================

I have explained it 3 different times, and it appears that you don't understand or don't care to understand.

So here it is one last time:
The PDF needs to be secured, so that it is much less likely for folks to edit it or use it for nefarious purposes.

Do you now understand? Because I am running out of ways to communicate it to you.
A

Let me assure you that I understand perfectly. More than you wish I did.
If you think the repetition of your demands make them more compelling, be assured it is
only highlighting their inanity.

[Anthony_Loera]

be assured it is only highlighting their inanity.

And yet... you continue to disagree, even after you understand?

Well this now get's interesting, so now explain yourself.
Because other than animosity for me, I don't see a logical argument from you.

A

[missminni]

*sigh* you are so missing the point that you aren't going to be able ot secure anything.

No offense, but you are missing the point of defending a copyrighted work in a legal setting, by securing the document as best we can.

A

Anthony thou doth protest too much.
it is you who are missing the point.
So just in case you haven't gotten it yet...let me be ever so blunt...
This is totally about you protecting your ass because you are now selling TA65.
It's like the emperors new clothes. So obvious.

[missminni]

be assured it is only highlighting their inanity.

And yet... you continue to disagree, even after you understand?

Well this now get's interesting, so now explain yourself.
Because other than animosity for me, I don't see a logical argument from you.

A

no animosity on my part. I don't have a dog in this race...you do.
I'm just trying to keep people informed of the truth, even when it doesn't serve you.

[Anthony_Loera]

Missminni,

I think you would be correct... if we didn't provide you a secure document to replace the one that is not secure. But... you haven't even giving me a chance to fail, let alone succeed at this... you have already made up your mind about it. According to you, I am covering my ass because I want to replace your current document with a document that is more secure, yet has the same darn information about TA-65 and Cycloastragenol.

So what is really eating you up?
Because a fair person would note that the same information would be provided back to you again... yet you don't care to acknowledge that.

A

[GLR]

Anthony do you own the lab that produced the results posted in the disputed pdf?

[Methos000]

I just think all of this fighting is getting in the way of finding the best telomerase inducers.

With lives on the line, I wish everyone would be willing to put aside the past, and negotiate a way forward.

from what I understand, the best inducers are a
embodied in a healthy life style
Aspirin (why I don't know but I did read that at a lab that did telomere testing)
Vitamins, yoga, meditation,
and aerobic exercise all help to maintain telomere length.
It's common sense.
The fountain of youth is your brain.

All of those methods have been available for many decades (or centuries).
I suppose that no one has followed them strictly enough, since no one has been shown to have lived past 122 years.

If these are the best inducers, let's hope that we find a much better class of weapons for our anti-aging arsenals.

[missminni]

I just think all of this fighting is getting in the way of finding the best telomerase inducers.

With lives on the line, I wish everyone would be willing to put aside the past, and negotiate a way forward.

from what I understand, the best inducers are a
embodied in a healthy life style
Aspirin (why I don't know but I did read that at a lab that did telomere testing)
Vitamins, yoga, meditation,
and aerobic exercise all help to maintain telomere length.
It's common sense.
The fountain of youth is your brain.

All of those methods have been available for many decades (or centuries).
I suppose that no one has followed them strictly enough, since no one has been shown to have lived past 122 years.

If these are the best inducers, let's hope that we find a much better class of weapons for our anti-aging arsenals.

Perhaps you'll find some hints here....
http://en.wikipedia....i/Li_Ching-Yuen

[hav]

As the creator of a scientific work, the lab probably could have claimed a copyright. And Anthony probably could have bought it fom them. Little late for that after it's public domain publication. A secure document release is still a good idea, however. For self authentication. But even without it, i think an intentional alteration might constiitute fraud or perhaps false advertising or an unfair trade practice or libel. I can understand Anthony not wanting to find himself in the middle and wanting to take precautions.

Howard