61 replies to this topic

[computeTHIS]

A lot of literature describes "growth factors" for tendon (or connective-tissue) healing, such as this article: http://www.ncbi.nlm....ubmed/21987365. I have an ankle sprain, whose tendons have healed very slowly over the last 2 years.

Are there any useful meds or supplements that do this? I'm not exactly sure which "growth factors" are useful, am I looking for something similar to anabolic steroids?

[zorba990]

Nitric Acid Patch?
http://bjsm.bmj.com/...t/41/4/227.full

[Healthy Tony]

A lot of literature describes "growth factors" for tendon (or connective-tissue) healing, such as this article: http://www.ncbi.nlm....ubmed/21987365. I have an ankle sprain, whose tendons have healed very slowly over the last 2 years.

Are there any useful meds or supplements that do this? I'm not exactly sure which "growth factors" are useful, am I looking for something similar to anabolic steroids?

I would think that HGH would help with this; however, I have yet to find any conclusive research on the matter. I have been experiencing a similar issue with my sprained wrist, so if I find any useful info for you I'll be sure to post it here.

[MrHappy]

Vitamins, b(group) e, a, c, k2, magnesium, essential fatty acids, protein co-factors + HGH. You can use alpha-gpc to naturally raise HGH, also. Exercise is apparenty needed with that.

[mpe]

Vitamins, b(group) e, a, c, k2, magnesium, essential fatty acids, protein co-factors + HGH. You can use alpha-gpc to naturally raise HGH, also. Exercise is apparenty needed with that.

I agree, I think the AgeForce Power Patch would be a good source of HGH for this purpose. I only mention them by name as they are the only transdermal patch supplier of HGH i know of.

Edited by mpe, 05 December 2011 - 12:43 AM.

[rwac]

Before going to the steroids, you should start taking gelatin (jello). It's great for connective tissue.

Edited by rwac, 05 December 2011 - 12:46 AM.

[Lufega]

Have you tried using a castor oil pack to lower inflammation ? It's cheap and effective.

[Healthy Tony]

From my research it seems that all of the following should help with tendon repair: HGH, Adequan, and Equipoise.

[platypus]

HGH is sold in transdermal patches, maybe putting one on the ankle could help?

[Ark]

Have you checked into Cissus works better then all other supplements for tendons.

[thedevinroy]

MSM makes tendons more stretchy, so that might help you from re-straining it.

Edited by devinthayer, 05 December 2011 - 08:45 PM.

[Luminosity]

IF there is pain and inflammation, consider:

You want to keep any inflammation down naturally if you can. There are natural anti-inflammatories. Which ones work for you varies from person to person. Boswellia/Boswellin is a good one, generally. Vitacost.com's store brand is top quality for the best price. Pancreatin is another. Start with one pill because it can irritate your system. Take it on an empty stomach and wait about twenty minutes to eat. Nature's Plus is the best brand. It is also available at Vitacost.com. Sasparilla is another. Nature's Way is one brand. I take four capsules at a time. Bromelain is another natural anti-inflammatory enzyme. Only Kal brand works. Take it on am empty stomach. Don't overdo because it can irritate your stomach. Start with one pill and work upward. You can take all of these pills together and I have.

Obviously, ice packs are another way of helping any inflammation. Menthol based ointments and liniments help dissipate any heat. York Zhou liniment is great but hard to find. There are plenty of them in any place that sells Chinese medicine as the drug store. Elevating the area is another technique. If you need to use an ace bandage for support of something like that, do it. If you need to use crutches or a wheelchair, do that. You can buy a wheelchair from Spin.com for about $200.00 delivered and use it at home if that helps. I'd recommend looking at the Guardian EasyCare 3000 lightweight collapsible model.

Increasing circulation safely through exercise can help, like, for instance, swimming. Eating well would help healing capacity. Try not to skip meals. Eating a steamed green vegetable everyday will help.

Obviously, there is physical therapy.

As far as supplements to help heal, MSM and Gelatin/Collagen come to kind. I would recommend taking plain powdered MSM dissolved in water on an empty stomach and waiting twenty minutes before eating or taking other supplements. If you can take a little vitamin C with it, that will help. Recommended brands are Source Naturals followed by Jarrow or UltraBotanicals.

I would recommend Type 2 collagen, specifically NeoCell Immucell type 2 capsules. That is the type of collagen recommended to rebuild joints. It is extracted from chicken cartilage. Even though it is in capsules, I would dissolve the whole thing in water, like in a clean empty pickle jar and leave it out on the counter for about eight hours stirring periodically to dissolve them in water. Store in the frig. Take on an empty stomach preferably with a little vitamin C. Wait twenty minutes to eat. Preferably take separate from the MSM. Vitacost seems to be the cheapest place to buy this supplement but they have poor indexing so you have to use the word "Immucell" to find it.

Many people here use Gelatin which is probably mostly types 1 and 3 collagen. This is probably extracted from pig and cow hides. You can try it if you want to. Great Lakes brand available at Amazon.com is popular. I would try the other one first, so you can compare.

Chin Koo Tieh Shang Wan is a Chinese Medicine that could help. Everyone is different so listen your body there. If it has too many negative side effects, look for another remedy. Shou Wu Chih is a Chinese tonic that might help. It isn't for everyone so if you have a feeling of pressure in your head or eyes, don't take it. I'd recommend HEI brand in the yellow box. I'd avoid Yang Cheng (?) in the orange box.

Black Dog Iron Hand Liniment is awesome but expensive.

If you are smoking, doing drugs or other things that run your health down, stop. Get enough rest and take care of yourself.

You want to help nourish the area, keep down any inflammation as naturally as possible, keep the area from getting strained, and direct blood and oxygen to that area. Then, hopefully the body will heal itself.

It may be there isn't one magic pill. It may help to be open to other solutions.

Edited by Luminosity, 06 December 2011 - 06:18 AM.

[computeTHIS]

Thanks guys! I haven't tried/taken anything for it yet. It doesn't have inflammation, just frequent soreness, particularly in my Achilles' tendon area. Is this something that hyaluronic acid could be useful for? If so, does anyone know how hyaluronic acid is supplemented?

From my research it seems that all of the following should help with tendon repair: HGH, Adequan, and Equipoise.

The latter 2 are primarily used for animals, from my reading. Are there human-equivalents, or many reports of human use of these things?

[moomoo]

Before going to the steroids, you should start taking gelatin (jello). It's great for connective tissue.

Also, high doses of Gelatine stimulate a huge hGH release. When I took it last it was a little scary. I felt like the Hulk (or The Thing) when the pulse hit. No aggression, but lots of flushed energy.

Try it. Needs to taken be without sugar IMO.

[Healthy Tony]

The latter 2 are primarily used for animals, from my reading. Are there human-equivalents, or many reports of human use of these things?

Equipoise is actually not all that uncommon for body builders to use as part of a juice stack. Adequan on the other hand is used primarily for horses and dogs; however, based on first person reports it works damn well for humans as well. Both seem to have a great success record from what I have read, but if you are looking for alternatives it seems that Deca is almost as good at healing tendons as Eq.

[Sartac]

Alflutop is another to look at. AAS seems rather drastic just for joint issues, mostly due to legality, but there's also throwing hormones out of whack. It may be feasible to take a lowish dose of anavar for this purpose, if you get a script or live in an area where such things are legal.

[computeTHIS]

Nitric Acid Patch?
http://bjsm.bmj.com/...t/41/4/227.full

That's a great article, I wonder what the most effective dose/delivery of NO is (since at some level its free-radical activity is toxic). I had no idea that oral nitric oxide was popularized in body building (from my search on the supplement).

Vitamins, b(group) e, a, c, k2, magnesium, essential fatty acids, protein co-factors + HGH. You can use alpha-gpc to naturally raise HGH, also. Exercise is apparenty needed with that.

Vitamins, alpha-gpc, and exercise have had limited results so far. It was possibly more effective for initial healing of the whole sprain. Protein co-factors + HGH are what I'm reading more into now.

Before going to the steroids, you should start taking gelatin (jello). It's great for connective tissue.

Also, high doses of Gelatine stimulate a huge hGH release. When I took it last it was a little scary. I felt like the Hulk (or The Thing) when the pulse hit. No aggression, but lots of flushed energy.

Try it. Needs to taken be without sugar IMO.

Duly noted, I definitely don't get enough jello in my diet.

Edited by computeTHIS, 07 December 2011 - 04:26 AM.

[Healthy Tony]

Alflutop is another to look at. AAS seems rather drastic just for joint issues, mostly due to legality, but there's also throwing hormones out of whack. It may be feasible to take a lowish dose of anavar for this purpose, if you get a script or live in an area where such things are legal.

It is fairly drastic to be honest... But when you have been living with pain for several months that is not improving despite exhausting the usual options, you start to think of more drastic solutions. I personally will probably be going with adequan + HGH, but if that doesn't work I will try a special AAS stack designed solely for tendon repair. That being said Anavar will not help with this most likely as that is a DHT analogue, and it too can mess up your hormones to some degree.

[computeTHIS]

Have you checked into Cissus works better then all other supplements for tendons.

It works by increasing the collagen turnover rate, is that correct? I'm curious what your experience with Cissus is, it deosn't seem to get much attention. Could you recommend some brands?

MSM makes tendons more stretchy, so that might help you from re-straining it.

MSM refers to methyl-sulfonyl-methane, is that right? Can you give sources for it's effects on the tendons? So far, I just find its use related to osteoarthritis treatment.

Alflutop is another to look at. AAS seems rather drastic just for joint issues, mostly due to legality, but there's also throwing hormones out of whack. It may be feasible to take a lowish dose of anavar for this purpose, if you get a script or live in an area where such things are legal.

It is fairly drastic to be honest... But when you have been living with pain for several months that is not improving despite exhausting the usual options, you start to think of more drastic solutions. I personally will probably be going with adequan + HGH, but if that doesn't work I will try a special AAS stack designed solely for tendon repair. That being said Anavar will not help with this most likely as that is a DHT analogue, and it too can mess up your hormones to some degree.

Please do report your experience on it, those would almost definitely be my last resorts - thinking of costs and possible side effects.

[thedevinroy]

Here's a good article on MSM: http://www.all-natural.com/msm.html. I guess you're supposed to take it with VItamin C. This catalog page promotes it as a flexibility enhancer: http://www.joyfulliv...rtendonitis.pdf. Pubmed has no studies whatsoever.

Your best bet is to find someone whose used it straight. Ask if it's made a difference for them.

[thedevinroy]

Thought you might find this interesting: http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/11899264

Consider regular old nerve growth factor supplements to correct your glutamate receptors. Ashwagandha makes me hurt less. Dunno why... but it made my toothache go away. I had an absess, too. Gone.

[Ark]

Have you checked into Cissus works better then all other supplements for tendons.

It works by increasing the collagen turnover rate, is that correct? I'm curious what your experience with Cissus is, it deosn't seem to get much attention. Could you recommend some brands?

MSM makes tendons more stretchy, so that might help you from re-straining it.

MSM refers to methyl-sulfonyl-methane, is that right? Can you give sources for it's effects on the tendons? So far, I just find its use related to osteoarthritis treatment.

Alflutop is another to look at. AAS seems rather drastic just for joint issues, mostly due to legality, but there's also throwing hormones out of whack. It may be feasible to take a lowish dose of anavar for this purpose, if you get a script or live in an area where such things are legal.

It is fairly drastic to be honest... But when you have been living with pain for several months that is not improving despite exhausting the usual options, you start to think of more drastic solutions. I personally will probably be going with adequan + HGH, but if that doesn't work I will try a special AAS stack designed solely for tendon repair. That being said Anavar will not help with this most likely as that is a DHT analogue, and it too can mess up your hormones to some degree.

Please do report your experience on it, those would almost definitely be my last resorts - thinking of costs and possible side effects.

I tend to use USPlabs Super Cissus, it works great for sports related injuries I get mine from Amazon.com or Nutraplanet.com (they sometimes have it on sale)

Also i'd look into stacking it with S-Adenosyl methionine and make sure you get one in a blisterpack as it's very unstable and easyly turns rencid.

[Luminosity]

You want to know more about MSM. It is harmless and inexpensive. I would just get some plain MSM powder, preferably Source Naturals or Jarrow and take it. Directions below. Vitacost is the cheapest place I know but a lot of people here like iHerb or Swansons.

I'm glad inflammation doesn't seem to be the problem. I continue to believe that the rest of my advice would be helpful:

Increasing circulation safely through exercise can help, like, for instance, swimming. Eating well would help healing capacity. Try not to skip meals. Eating a steamed green vegetable everyday will help.

Obviously, there is physical therapy.

As far as supplements to help heal, MSM and Gelatin/Collagen come to kind. I would recommend taking plain powdered MSM dissolved in water on an empty stomach and waiting twenty minutes before eating or taking other supplements. If you can take a little vitamin C with it, that will help. Recommended brands are Source Naturals followed by Jarrow or UltraBotanicals.

I would recommend Type 2 collagen, specifically NeoCell Immucell type 2 capsules. That is the type of collagen recommended to rebuild joints. It is extracted from chicken cartilage. Even though it is in capsules, I would dissolve the whole thing in water, like in a clean empty pickle jar and leave it out on the counter for about eight hours stirring periodically to dissolve them in water. Store in the frig. Take on an empty stomach preferably with a little vitamin C. Wait twenty minutes to eat. Preferably take separate from the MSM. Vitacost seems to be the cheapest place to buy this supplement but they have poor indexing so you have to use the word "Immucell" to find it.

Many people here use Gelatin which is probably mostly types 1 and 3 collagen. This is probably extracted from pig and cow hides. You can try it if you want to. Great Lakes brand available at Amazon.com is popular. I would try the other one first, so you can compare.

Chin Koo Tieh Shang Wan is a Chinese Medicine that could help. Everyone is different so listen your body there. If it has too many negative side effects, look for another remedy. Shou Wu Chih is a Chinese tonic that might help. It isn't for everyone so if you have a feeling of pressure in your head or eyes, don't take it. I'd recommend HEI brand in the yellow box. I'd avoid Yang Cheng (?) in the orange box.

Black Dog Iron Hand Liniment is awesome but expensive.

If you are smoking, doing drugs or other things that run your health down, stop. Get enough rest and take care of yourself.

You want to help nourish the area, keep down any inflammation as naturally as possible, keep the area from getting strained, and direct blood and oxygen to that area. Then, hopefully the body will heal itself.

It may be there isn't one magic pill. It may help to be open to other solutions. I would be leery of taking hormones or anything illegal.

Also, some cultures eat tendons. I think they are an ingredient in Pho. I was just at a Chinese restaurant today and they had a beef stew hot pot/casserole with tendon in it. That would probably help you.

[computeTHIS]

You want to know more about MSM. It is harmless and inexpensive. I would just get some plain MSM powder, preferably Source Naturals or Jarrow and take it. Directions below. Vitacost is the cheapest place I know but a lot of people here like iHerb or Swansons.

I'm glad inflammation doesn't seem to be the problem. I continue to believe that the rest of my advice would be helpful:

Increasing circulation safely through exercise can help, like, for instance, swimming. Eating well would help healing capacity. Try not to skip meals. Eating a steamed green vegetable everyday will help.

Obviously, there is physical therapy.

As far as supplements to help heal, MSM and Gelatin/Collagen come to kind. I would recommend taking plain powdered MSM dissolved in water on an empty stomach and waiting twenty minutes before eating or taking other supplements. If you can take a little vitamin C with it, that will help. Recommended brands are Source Naturals followed by Jarrow or UltraBotanicals.

I would recommend Type 2 collagen, specifically NeoCell Immucell type 2 capsules. That is the type of collagen recommended to rebuild joints. It is extracted from chicken cartilage. Even though it is in capsules, I would dissolve the whole thing in water, like in a clean empty pickle jar and leave it out on the counter for about eight hours stirring periodically to dissolve them in water. Store in the frig. Take on an empty stomach preferably with a little vitamin C. Wait twenty minutes to eat. Preferably take separate from the MSM. Vitacost seems to be the cheapest place to buy this supplement but they have poor indexing so you have to use the word "Immucell" to find it.

Many people here use Gelatin which is probably mostly types 1 and 3 collagen. This is probably extracted from pig and cow hides. You can try it if you want to. Great Lakes brand available at Amazon.com is popular. I would try the other one first, so you can compare.

Chin Koo Tieh Shang Wan is a Chinese Medicine that could help. Everyone is different so listen your body there. If it has too many negative side effects, look for another remedy. Shou Wu Chih is a Chinese tonic that might help. It isn't for everyone so if you have a feeling of pressure in your head or eyes, don't take it. I'd recommend HEI brand in the yellow box. I'd avoid Yang Cheng (?) in the orange box.

Black Dog Iron Hand Liniment is awesome but expensive.

If you are smoking, doing drugs or other things that run your health down, stop. Get enough rest and take care of yourself.

You want to help nourish the area, keep down any inflammation as naturally as possible, keep the area from getting strained, and direct blood and oxygen to that area. Then, hopefully the body will heal itself.

It may be there isn't one magic pill. It may help to be open to other solutions. I would be leery of taking hormones or anything illegal.

Also, some cultures eat tendons. I think they are an ingredient in Pho. I was just at a Chinese restaurant today and they had a beef stew hot pot/casserole with tendon in it. That would probably help you.

Thanks Luminosity, I +1ed most of that from your previous reply. For the time being, I'm going to focus on some simple things like collagen supplementation and stuff that raises HGH levels (I suspect it's been low). I'm also seeing a doctor about it, I'll try more things if it doesn't improve much. I've tried different light therapy regimens with no success so far, which is what leads me to believe that HGH levels could use elevation.

[Luminosity]

O.K.

A simple regimen would be MSM + C, and collagen + C

if you like you could later add Chin Koo Tieh Shang Wan and/or Shou Wu Chih

I would not have thought light therapies would have been the way to go. HGH doesn't seem to be a good bet either, not to mention the risk of messing with your hormones if you actually take HGH. There are many reasons why something doesn't heal. Low HGH is only one possibility. The modern diet is low in collagen and MSM among other things.

I don't want to browbeat you so I will leave it at that.

Edited by Luminosity, 09 December 2011 - 06:55 AM.

[nidhogg]

If you decide the HGH route i'd suggest GHRP6 & MOD GRF1-29 over plain simple HGH. First of all its plenty cheaper(unless you are covered by ensurance) aswell as widely available. Second, exogenous HGH desensitizes the somatotropic cells in long term which appear to be permanent. Then there is the problem with elevated cortisol and prolactin levels, none which are a problem with GHRP & MGRF.

Cissus is a good choice aswell although i dont think it increases procollagen synthesis in tendons, it helps to a certain degree.

Then theres always anabolic steroids :P

[JChief]

You might look into a popular Traditional Chinese Medicinal supplement called Deer Antler Velvet. I trust this source and has the CoA available on the page which I like. Here's a summary. Supposedly good for bone, blood and joints.

I am also researching collagen. Dr. Bernd Friedlander developed a formula that is proclaimed to be the "best on the market" and supposedly helps decrease healing time for both soft tissue and bone. Enzymatically cold processed 4-8 times from grass-fed beef hide. I am trying to dig up more research on this.

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/11071580

[thedevinroy]

Thought you might find this interesting: http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/11899264

Consider regular old nerve growth factor supplements to correct your glutamate receptors. Ashwagandha makes me hurt less. Dunno why... but it made my toothache go away. I had an absess, too. Gone.

More along the lines of glutamate antagonistic herbal nootropics...

Gotu Kola
Huperzia
Cat's Claw

Haven't tried Cat's Claw, but the other two are great for neurological pain. Picamilon, too, but that's the GABAergic channel. Actually, Gotu Kola is GABAergic as well. Ashwagandha balances monoamines and has COX-2 inhibitors, so that is pretty awesome as a nervine... though unrelated to glutamate. Plus, it is a GDNF agonist... great for nerve damage.

Edited by devinthayer, 09 December 2011 - 03:25 PM.

[AgeVivo]

pizza, pasta, strawberies

[Raptor87]

http://www.longecity...__fromsearch__1
http://www.longecity...uction-methods/

I've read a few anecdotes from bodybuilders who claim that GH makes their tendinitis worse. The best steroid for tendon and ligament problems would be nandrolone/deca durabolin