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Positive Results from Uridine, ALCAR, DHA, Vitamins

uridine depression bipolar ocd

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#31 JChief

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Posted 15 December 2011 - 06:03 AM

Damn almost been up 24 hours trying to finish this paper due in less than 24 hours. I've been drinking relentless energy drink, had 350mg modalert, at least 200 mg TAU, b comples, 750 mg CDP Choline, 2000mg DHA, a few liters of water. Mealwise in these 24 hours? 1 burger :/
Somethings killing my apetitite. But i can't believe im still productive. I only had 4 hours of sleep. This can't be good for my health.


I can promise that energy drink isn't good for your health ;) Studies on modafinil (even those on healthy weight individuals) indicate that it has an appetite reducing/weight loss effect. That's it.

Edited by JChief, 15 December 2011 - 06:04 AM.


#32 nito

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Posted 15 December 2011 - 07:51 AM

Damn almost been up 24 hours trying to finish this paper due in less than 24 hours. I've been drinking relentless energy drink, had 350mg modalert, at least 200 mg TAU, b comples, 750 mg CDP Choline, 2000mg DHA, a few liters of water. Mealwise in these 24 hours? 1 burger :/
Somethings killing my apetitite. But i can't believe im still productive. I only had 4 hours of sleep. This can't be good for my health.


I can promise that energy drink isn't good for your health ;) Studies on modafinil (even those on healthy weight individuals) indicate that it has an appetite reducing/weight loss effect. That's it.



Yea i usually don't usually like energy drinks, only drink it when i need to study hard. Still waiting for the UMP to arrive from supernaturals or what they are called. I payed almost $50 more than 15 days ago. This is ridiculous!

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#33 MrHappy

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Posted 15 December 2011 - 12:59 PM

Settle, petal.. :)

I think stock levels have been decimated in the last month. Add time for the ships to cut through the fog to the UK and you're still way ahead of expected delivery windows. :P



#34 JChief

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Posted 15 December 2011 - 03:48 PM

Yeah I wouldn't worry too much nito - Happy didn't have an issue. I'm sure there's a good reason. Sucks though having to wait!

#35 JChief

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Posted 16 December 2011 - 12:35 PM

What a potent mood stabilizer this combo might be for many people. I was reading a study called New Therapeutic Targets for Mood Disorders (full study) that reviewed 1) glycogen synthase kinase-3 (GSK-3) and protein kinase C (PKC); 2) the purinergic system; 3) histone deacetylase (HDAC); 4) the melatonergic system; 5) the tachykinin neuropeptides system; 6) the glutamatergic system; and 7) oxidative stress and bioenergetics.

While we know that racetams (which I noticed mood enhancement from) have an effect on the glutamatergic system (see this study as one example), I have found that PKC activity was implicated in omega-3 fatty acids:

http://www.nature.co...0837a.html#bib9
http://www.ncbi.nlm..../pubmed/1858866
http://www.ncbi.nlm..../pubmed/1352441

I feel great. I don't know what else to tell you! What. a. combo.


Why uridine? Because a couple years ago there was a study done at Harvard that indicated this natural substance (found in tomatoes, sugar cane, mothers milk etc) seems to help balance neurotransmitters in the brain and had the same antidepressant effect of popular SSRIs (prescribed for depression & anxiety)

http://www.wdam.com/....asp?S=13603594
http://cds.ismrm.org...iles/001482.pdf
http://www.lieberton...9/cap.2010.0054
http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/18540779

Edited by JChief, 16 December 2011 - 12:39 PM.


#36 JChief

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Posted 16 December 2011 - 01:04 PM

I wanted to let you all know I am going to be adding creatine to my regimen in a couple days. I work out and want to see if it helps reduce muscle soreness or any other workout-related benefit and will also see if it affects my mood in any way. I plan to take 5g per day. I will update this thread with any developments.

#37 MrHappy

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Posted 16 December 2011 - 01:24 PM

Exactly.. can't recommend it enough, as many other threads already show.. <brazen grin>.

That's a good collection of research, JChief! You've been busy. :)
I'm thinking it could be good idea to create a descriptive thread title and/or a 'sticky'. eg. "Fix for: Depression, Anxiety, OCD, Brain Fog, Neurodegenerative Diseases HERE + NGF, BDNF"
- It could stop me from sounding like a 'broken record'.
Perhaps after a few more people have weighed in with positive results, we could ask Chrono to add it to the thread index or something.

On another positive note, my TAU finally just arrived, so I'll have something to test while I'm away for the next few weeks.
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#38 MrHappy

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Posted 16 December 2011 - 01:28 PM

I used creatine some years ago. It's interesting - your muscles appear to suck in a lot of water-weight or something. Your recovery time becomes much better. I put on about 20 pounds of muscle/water in the first month alone and I was hitting the weights at least 4 nights a week.

#39 matter_of_time

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Posted 17 December 2011 - 10:45 AM

if you take a smaller amount of creatine (1-3 gr) you will not gain any weight and you will notice the same performance enhancement. This works for me very good, so don't preload enormous amounts of creatine and dont take more then 3 gr of creatine.

#40 matter_of_time

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Posted 18 December 2011 - 09:09 AM

Look what I found today:
http://www.ergo-log....notheavier.html

#41 satsumass

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Posted 21 December 2011 - 02:41 AM

Just wanted to add my experience to this thread. I'm bipolar II, mostly depressed although ahve been feeling pretty good the last two months due to increased exercise and DHEA, but still having some trouble with mood, insomnia, and some obsessive-compulsive tendencies (and a lot of mental "chatter", which also correllates to hypomanias or mixed states).

Maybe this is just placebo effect but i'm on second day of 25mg triacetyluridine 3x a day, along with 1250mg of DHA (and 2000mg EPA), along with my regular meds and supplements, but I feel a noticable reduction in obsessiveness and reduction in level of mental chatter. I have been having insomnia issues but slept a little bit better last night...most noticable thing was the reduction in chatter and obsessive/compulsive thinking behavior. Again may be placebo but wanted to add my experience. I will update as things go along. Also mood feels stable and "normal". Was just prescribed a SSRI a few days ago but haven't gotten it filled yet...in just two days i'm reevaluating the need for it after addition of Triacetyluridine

How are the other people trying TAU doing? Can you post updates?

#42 MrHappy

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Posted 21 December 2011 - 04:15 AM

My wife is still not taking SSRIs and she swears by the uridine combination. From the outside, I can comment on a distinct lack of obsessive behaviour, a consistently positive mood and general outlook.

I also have personally noticed a significantly enhanced feeling of wellbeing, as well as overall cognitive improvements.

Keep us posted! :)



#43 canz

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Posted 21 December 2011 - 05:45 AM

I too have ordered some TAU from Swansons (Cardiovascular Research lmtd.) and am waiting on it. I have a history of anxiety and depression and through exercise and nutrition have hacked away at it, but it still rears it's ugly head from time to time. I used to be on SSRIs and was tired of being an empty shell of a person.....the withdraws from that stuff was HORRIBLE. I'm going to start out with 25mg once daily in the morning with DHA/EPA and go from there. I want to find the minimum effective dose and go from there. I've been keeping up with all of the threads about uridine and that coupled with my own research is what convinced me to give it a try. Once I get mine and have evaluated it for a couple weeks I'll give an update.

#44 JChief

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Posted 21 December 2011 - 06:56 AM

My update is that TAU @ 100mg w/ food ONCE per day in the AM works all day and keeps moods stable and "normal" as you said. It's so hard to describe because when someone says they feel "good" the inclination is to think "euphoria" and it's not like that. But I just feel good is all I can say. After some experimenting and self-evaluation I came to find that after running off of a lower amount of sleep and working overnight shift and then coming home in the morning and staying up until noon or past that will enduce a hypomanic state. I will think of some of the funniest things and I swear my creative abilities go through the roof. But I recognize that its not healthy. My father is bipolar. I was diagnosed as bipolar but I've been diagnosed with a lot of things in my teens. The bipolar was because of my unstable emotions after going on a benzo binge and adderall that the doctor didn't know about etc. It was impossible for him to give me an accurate diagnosis. I have never ever been truly manic or severely depressed. But I feel that racetams can induce hypomania on occasion and lack of sleep can induce it like clockwork. This returned a few days ago after I ran out of TAU for a few days while waiting for my order to arrive. I started back in yesterday and after my 100mg dose I feel right as rain again. I feel that I could fall under the label of Cyclothymia "similar to bipolar II disorder in that it presents itself in signature hypomanic episodes. Because hypomania is often associated with exceptionally creative, outgoing, and high-functioning behavior, both conditions are often undiagnosed." I never have the deep depression but there are other symptoms of the down cycle. Maybe this is why I respond so well to uridine? I dunno. But I am going to continue to take it because I think its amazing and I don't feel like I'm "on" something either. It's a beautiful thing. And like I said before it also seems to help with sleep in some way and reduced my OCD tendencies. It allows me to settle down and focus on things better. All I can say is wow. I cannot believe a cheap supplement has this much power!

#45 JChief

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Posted 21 December 2011 - 07:40 AM

I too have ordered some TAU from Swansons (Cardiovascular Research lmtd.) and am waiting on it. I have a history of anxiety and depression and through exercise and nutrition have hacked away at it, but it still rears it's ugly head from time to time. I used to be on SSRIs and was tired of being an empty shell of a person.....the withdraws from that stuff was HORRIBLE. I'm going to start out with 25mg once daily in the morning with DHA/EPA and go from there. I want to find the minimum effective dose and go from there. I've been keeping up with all of the threads about uridine and that coupled with my own research is what convinced me to give it a try. Once I get mine and have evaluated it for a couple weeks I'll give an update.


Yes please do post your updates. I used to be on SSRIs for awhile. Sexual side effects aside it was a "numb" experience for me. I'd have bouts of euphoric feelings but it was all a mirage. That wasn't me and I'm glad I don't have to rely on them to function. I fail to remember why they were even prescribed to me to begin with over a decade ago. I hope others get the same effects with less side effects on a similar combo as what I or Happy is taking.

#46 MrHappy

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Posted 22 December 2011 - 08:19 AM

FWIW, I've been toying with TAU on my holiday and I also happened to settle on around 100mg, once a day.

I think UMP is going to be a lot more cost-effective longterm, particularly sublingually.



#47 JChief

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Posted 22 December 2011 - 08:44 AM

Yes it would be more cost effective assuming sublingually works just as well. I remember you saying it had a more activating effect (or perhaps that was Hebbeh) but I've not tried UMP variety yet. TAU from Swanson's was fairly cheap and I buy along with other supplements and save on shipping. 2 bottles of TAU per month isn't too bad to deal with anyway. $25/mo or thereabouts. I would like to compare the differences at some point but I am happy with the results as it is so I'm in no rush hehe

#48 nupi

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Posted 22 December 2011 - 08:51 AM

I am starting to wonder if we could just drink formula? There should be other potentially useful stuff in there, too :P

#49 MrHappy

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Posted 22 December 2011 - 09:47 AM

<chuckle>

I asked exactly the same question, Nupi! :)

After finally locating the ingredients, I came to the conclusion that the ratio of ingredients would have you gaining a fair amount of weight at a much larger expense than separate supplements.
http://www.longecity...ll-in-one-noot/



#50 protoject

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Posted 28 December 2011 - 11:17 PM

I'm not noticing the same benefits as you are and I have similar problems. I'm using uridine/tau, citicoline and omega-3, and one cap of oxiracetam. Yesterday it seemed things were getting better but as usual everything bad came back again today. Really sucks, I often feel like I'm wasting my time and money with these matters, and that there are no conceivable answers for me, and I'll be stuck in a pit of depravity for my entire life. But for now I'll keep my head up and keep looking for the answers. hopefully this ends up being beneficial, I just think I'm really figuratively at the end of my rope here.... unfortunately. Glad it's working out for you though.


Thanks. What issues were you coping with currently? Just OCD-like behavior or mood swings/depressive symptoms? If it's mood issues/depressive symptoms I would recommend switching from citicoline to ALCAR (500mg on empty stomach morning and afternoon works fine for me) and maybe give the oxi a rest for a few days and see if just DHA+uridine+ALCAR+multivitamin helps. If you want to stick with citicoline (I remember you saying it has worked well for you in other posts) and you started your uridine regimen recently it just may be an issue of giving it more time. Have you surpassed the two week mark? I have not taken piracetam for several days now. I still feel great. And for some odd reason I don't really feel the need right now. I like how I feel without. Main reason being, I liked how piracetam would keep me mentally sharp, but uridine/ALCAR/DHA and perhaps the added vitamins do this just the same. So perhaps swapping CDP for ALCAR, giving oxi a rest for a bit, and/or giving it more time may be an option. Another suggestion might be to up your TAU dose. I am taking 100mg TAU per day with my first meal of the day currently. Let me know your thoughts on this.

I wanted to also let everyone know that I am pretty convinced now that this combo works well for those that aren't getting adequate sleep. I feel I need to sleep just a little bit less than before. And it doesn't seem to catch up to me later. Here it is 4am and I was only able to sleep for about 5 hours during the day because I am working the night shift again. While this isn't something I want to keep doing long term I change my sleep schedule so that I can be up during the day on the weekends and then go back to sleeping during the day 4 days during the week. Before I started uridine I would require racetams to stay sharp in spite of feeling sleepy but I am awake, alert without a racetam. :)


Thanks for the concern. As it stands after some dosage adjustment with certain supplements [I lowered my dose of citicoline as well as galantamine], also becoming more consistent with Fish oil [which for me was a bit controversial because the fish oil makes me kind of sleepy/spacy. This is a good thing at night and a bad thing during the day. Anyway I am actually going to be trying a high EPA supplement soon because I do believe that it's the DHA that is making me sleepy and EPA is supposedly better for adults anyway. Also this new Fish Oil supplement that I'm getting has a very low amount of anything else in it, whether it's DHA, other fatty acids, etc.. it's mostly just EPA. I've seen some EPA studies that help people in terms of depression , bipolar etc]

I actually agree with your idea of increasing TAU because it does seem to help. Increasing uridine-5-monophosphate [UMP] did not give the same effect. I want to buy TAU in bulk because I've seen that in studies they use quite a bit and it would be great to see what effect it would give in the gram dosages. I've also stabilized the Oxiracetam dose at about 1.5 g, though I did run out recently and I am going to try Nefiracetam.

Alcar, I can't seem to handle. I used to use it a lot last year and it helped with certain things but overall it would make me get more anxiety and not sleep. it was great for workouts yet I would seem to crash. I am reconsidering small doses of alcar again though because I've heard of some people using it in conjunction with cholinergics.. [one dude in particular on the forum, cant remember who but he made this awesome proposition about how it worked]

Quick Breakdown: Will be switching from EPA/DHA 2:1 supplement to mostly EPA. reason: lots of studies on EE-EPA out there, also heard a lot of anecdotal reports of it being a lot more "clear minded" and energizing / less depressing than DHA [yeah i know it sounds wierd but honestly some people do get slowed down by DHA]. Will be switching Oxiracetam to Nefiracetam [not because I have any problem with oxi but because Nefiracetam I have never tried].

This stuff is all hard to figure out sometimes , especially when the supplements do help you with one thing but not another. For example with all this supplementation my memory appears to have improved, my logic is stronger and I function better on the job. My family and friends have noticed a definite difference even if they didn't know what was going on. It's just that, this difference is not strong enough for me yet to say my journey is over. Hopefully we can all find the answers using the information and the technologies available to us.

To answer your question, my problems are the following [off the top of my head..]
OCD and anxiety- I obsess over certain concepts, places, things and events to the point that it is disabling. The thought or the feeling automatically and invasively takes over my entire mind, pretty much. Of course I can observe it happening to a degree and have learnt some thinking techniques to make sure the problem doesn't become larger but it still is a big concern. There's also a compulsive quality, because it's like I can only think about a limited number of things. Now, I also have other problems such as..

ADD- it's quite hard for me to remember things, to focus, to start something and finish it. My mind always goes off in too many directions and I get extremely distracted. Impulsive, have experienced addictions [non-drug and drug]

Depression- Majority of the time I feel lack of motivation, lack of pleasure or reward, lack of interest, lack of energy.

and sleep problems.

There's actually a bit more like for example I appear to fall into a schizotypical category [I'm dosing sarcosine as well]. However I notice over the years certain symptoms of all of these categories have mostly disappeared, yet the problems have not disappeared enough for me to feel like I can exist normally.

It's just a real pain in the butt trying to find out how to fix oneself at times, especially when you don't even know if you're anywhere even close to the answer. But I am sure that a number of you will agree that after a few years of experience you start moving closer to the answer, as I have seen definite results especially in the past few months. Glad to be here rather than where I was a year ago.

Lately I've been sleeping better, which I attribute to the galantamine as well as the omega3s. And again lately my thinking has been a lot more logical and less fuzzy, and I am able to endure through labor better than I was before. I notice that although my energy level is not completely improved, that at times I actually have a lot more energy than I ever would have a year ago, and i can work long hours without complaining. [unless I have missed sleep].

To answer another question: at the moment I am not taking any full spectrum B vitamin supplement. I take b12 and folate [low dose folate]. I am considering Vimmortal because it looks like a perfect combo in terms of B vitamins. However in the mean time I just eat a lot of Vitamin rich foods. Lots of mushrooms and tomatoes for the b's.

Thanks for listening and asking guys, it's good to have a community interested in the same things, sometimes I'm actually hesitant about posting because I want to do something smart and succeed a little bit before posting, but I guess we all have our own path and you have to make mistakes to succeed.

......So... Does anyone know where to get bulk TAU?

#51 manic_racetam

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Posted 28 December 2011 - 11:34 PM

..........
......So... Does anyone know where to get bulk TAU?


Companies in china list it as $380USD / kilo. 1 kilo min order. That seems really cheap... anyone want to start a uridine company? lol

EDIT:

At 100mg per morning a kilo would last 27 years LOL!!

Edited by manic_racetam, 28 December 2011 - 11:36 PM.


#52 protoject

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Posted 28 December 2011 - 11:57 PM

..........
......So... Does anyone know where to get bulk TAU?


Companies in china list it as $380USD / kilo. 1 kilo min order. That seems really cheap... anyone want to start a uridine company? lol

EDIT:

At 100mg per morning a kilo would last 27 years LOL!!



Yes but some studies on bipolar patients use up to 18 grams

maybe the company would be willing to give us a smaller M.O.Q. than a Kg... sheesh

I think UMP is cheaper isn't it? But will it have the same effect as TAU is the question

#53 manic_racetam

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Posted 29 December 2011 - 01:25 AM

I too have ordered some TAU from Swansons (Cardiovascular Research lmtd.) and am waiting on it. I have a history of anxiety and depression and through exercise and nutrition have hacked away at it, but it still rears it's ugly head from time to time. I used to be on SSRIs and was tired of being an empty shell of a person.....the withdraws from that stuff was HORRIBLE. I'm going to start out with 25mg once daily in the morning with DHA/EPA and go from there. I want to find the minimum effective dose and go from there. I've been keeping up with all of the threads about uridine and that coupled with my own research is what convinced me to give it a try. Once I get mine and have evaluated it for a couple weeks I'll give an update.


Keep us posted canz. I still haven't decided on this Uridine yet, but it would be interesting to hear about the effects it has on you. I feel there are a lot of similarities in our problems and I would value your opinion on this one.

#54 manic_racetam

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Posted 29 December 2011 - 01:26 AM

..........
......So... Does anyone know where to get bulk TAU?


Companies in china list it as $380USD / kilo. 1 kilo min order. That seems really cheap... anyone want to start a uridine company? lol

EDIT:

At 100mg per morning a kilo would last 27 years LOL!!



Yes but some studies on bipolar patients use up to 18 grams

maybe the company would be willing to give us a smaller M.O.Q. than a Kg... sheesh

I think UMP is cheaper isn't it? But will it have the same effect as TAU is the question


We could probably get a sample for a first time purchase. I'll check it out. In one of those moods it looks like

#55 nupi

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Posted 29 December 2011 - 07:35 AM

SigmaAldrich quoted me approx 80 EUR for 5g of UMP last week :P. Can we get a third party CoA on that?

#56 MrHappy

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Posted 29 December 2011 - 08:29 AM

I'd be suggesting around 75-100mg of TAU, orally or 200-300mg of UMP, sublingually.

It's also rather important to take the other cofactors, B & E vitamins especially.

Nicotine and caffeine will also compete with uridine - so it's a good idea to taper off them, but uridine will also assist in discontinuing them, according to the literature.

Hopefully that helps anyone who has been slower to see the same results.

Combining this with another beneficial therapy like EFT/CBT/EMDR could be a good idea, too. For some people, it's quite often not only a physiological issue - during 'down' phases, learned patterns of a debilitating perception of self-worth can build up over time. These need to be forgiven and let go. Learning to forgive and love yourself again is pretty important to feeling good overall, I feel.. <chuckle>

:)


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#57 canz

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Posted 29 December 2011 - 10:36 AM

I too have ordered some TAU from Swansons (Cardiovascular Research lmtd.) and am waiting on it. I have a history of anxiety and depression and through exercise and nutrition have hacked away at it, but it still rears it's ugly head from time to time. I used to be on SSRIs and was tired of being an empty shell of a person.....the withdraws from that stuff was HORRIBLE. I'm going to start out with 25mg once daily in the morning with DHA/EPA and go from there. I want to find the minimum effective dose and go from there. I've been keeping up with all of the threads about uridine and that coupled with my own research is what convinced me to give it a try. Once I get mine and have evaluated it for a couple weeks I'll give an update.


Keep us posted canz. I still haven't decided on this Uridine yet, but it would be interesting to hear about the effects it has on you. I feel there are a lot of similarities in our problems and I would value your opinion on this one.


I started yesterday with 25mg in the morning with my fish oil and multi vitamin. I don't take a choline source because it gives me brain fog and depression. I had a shitty day for the most part yesterday, but then in the evening I was in a great mood. I was just overall happy, didn't mind talking with people and shared a few laughs (which in my current environment is not usual). On the walk back to my room (about 1/2 mile) I contemplated my thoughts and decided that I was in a great mood and had didn't feel sluggish physically at all. Today I took another 25mg in the morning. My mood is not as it was last night, but I'm not having a mentally shitty day as I did yesterday morning. I understand that it takes time for this to build up, and time for results to be felt consistently, but if what I experienced last night is a glimpse of what is to come this is definitely a promising suppplement for those that deal with minor mental issues. I may bump up to 50mg tomorrow.
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#58 manic_racetam

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Posted 29 December 2011 - 05:46 PM

SigmaAldrich quoted me approx 80 EUR for 5g of UMP last week :P. Can we get a third party CoA on that?


You think it would be the same price for 5g of TAU? Do you know what they include in the analysis?

#59 nupi

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Posted 29 December 2011 - 06:04 PM

Feel free to check for your own location at http://www.sigmaaldr...edSearchPage.do Generally, their stuff would be pharma grade, so checked for most things under the sun.

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#60 manic_racetam

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Posted 29 December 2011 - 09:06 PM

SigmaAldrich quoted me approx 80 EUR for 5g of UMP last week :P. Can we get a third party CoA on that?


Maybe I'm confused. Are you talking about ordering UMP from them? Or were you thinking of using them for getting a third party CoA on another source? Just wondering because 80 EUR for analysis sounds really good, but 80 EUR for purchase of 5g UMP sounds a bit expensive.





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