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I request your assistance to correctly make my first trial of nootropics

nootropics stack

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#1 ODAN

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Posted 09 December 2011 - 09:57 PM


Greetings everyone !


I am a 22 years old with ADD with a passion for science, I am currently trying to get back into my studies to earn my bachelor degree and eventually become a biologist.


I spent the last month learning about nootropics in this forum, I loved it. This is such an interesting subject.



Before talking about nootropics, here's a few things about my diet.


I drink a bowl of green tea in the morning, and a bowl of green rooibos in the evening. I intend to add a bowl of Hibiscus tea to my 12 o'clock lunch, as soon as it arrives.


I drink a few different 100% fruit juice and one smoothie of fruits everyday.


I eat nuts. Everytime I eat something, I eat a mouthful of them. Don't know why, probably learned somewhere it was pretty good for you and took on the habit.


I use diligently the Vimmortal supplement. For future reference, in one serving of 6 capsules, two for each lunch of the day, there is 100mcg of Vitamin B9, 24mcg of Vitamin B12, 550mg of Choline.


I don't know what else is there to say about my diet, I'd say it's pretty good. Lots of fruits and vegetables, meat. I'm trying to cut down a bit my bread consumption as too much gluten can be harmful for you. I brush my teeth and floss regulary right after eating, well, ahah. I've got a pretty balanced diet.


What else could I add ? Well I exercise everyday. Not enough perhaps, but I do a bit of biking everyday, running errands most of the time.

I constantly run an air purifier, a blueair, in my bedroom, where I spend most of my time. I also got an Areca plant there.

Oh, and I am 1m76 tall and weight 71kg, which is my ideal BMI.

So yes, as you can see I'm not planning for a magical longevity pill to fall on my lap, I'm doing my best to enhance my chances ahahah



Now, let's talk about them nootropics.


Here's what I got in my sights:

Piracetam + Uridine + ALCAR + Lion's mane + Fish oil



What do you think ? Could I (safely) add anything to it ?


Uridine + ALCAR (http://www.longecity...nisms-of-alcar/) pretty much erase the need for a choline supplement, what's more I got the Vimmortal supplement so everything choline related seems pretty much covered.

However, what about the B9 and B12 ? Should I get more supplement of it, despite Vimmortal ? Mr.Happy did quote a study that essentially showed that we need to have sufficient amounts of B9 and B12 if we are to use Uridine, or there would be trouble. I don't like trouble. Thing is, I have no idea if I am getting sufficient B9 and B12 from my diet and Vimmortal, if I am to use Uridine on top of it.

What about DHA, EPA, E ? I probably skipped their effect combined with Uridine, but apparently, they are important. Could you lighten my bulb please, Mr.Happy ?


Piracetam for obvious reasons. If it failed after a few weeks of trial and error, I'll try Aniracetam.


Lion's Mane for its NGF properties, I intend to take the Fungi Perfect liquid version.


Fish oil because all the cool kids are doing it and I don't want to be left behind. However there are small risks of mercury poisoning and I already got my fillings to worry about. From the little I know, big fishes that eat the little fishes are much more likely to poison you with mercury. Thing is, I hardly think we can make fish oil with the livers of plankton, if they even have one. The safest bet would be fish oil made with fishes that are kept in captivity. Salt water or not, if they're kept close to land and can't wander too far, they should carry much less risks.

Anyone know a fish oil made from fishes grown in captivity, or with very low risk of mercury poisoning ?



Lastly, my researches have been all about understanding nootropics and brain chemistry, while putting aside their method of consumption, what size, how many times a day, and so on.


If someone could teach me about those, I'd be very grateful. I can find information about this on the forum, but I'd like to know a bit more personal approach. I can find how much piracetam one should take every day easily. But I can't find how much piracetam one should take if he's taking Uridine and ALCAR at the same time.

I'll need your help on this one.


Well, that's pretty much it. There's a few other things that seem interesting that I'll study, like BCAA, L-Glutamine with Ginkgo or Gotu Kola or Valerian root, Ashwagandha, Huperzine A, Bacopa,
Citicoline, Berocca, Tyrosine, Malic acid, Idebenone, R-ala. If you feel like teaching me about one of those because it might synergize well with my current list, feel free to do so.


Thank you everyone, you've been a great, great help to me. I couldn't have learned so much without you all.

#2 ODAN

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Posted 09 December 2011 - 10:41 PM

Addendum: It seems Centrophenoxine can be used to clean the body of Lipofuscin. Is it something I should look into, as a 22 years old man ? If so, how should it be used ? Is it something you can, say, take for two month to clean up a bit, then take a break of 4 months, then take it for two months again ? Could I take it with my current list of Nootropics ? Thanks.

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#3 MrHappy

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Posted 10 December 2011 - 12:53 AM

You could take flaxseed oil instead of fish oil. I take up to 10 caps a day.
Vimmortal should cover your vitamin needs, but I'd consider additional zinc.

#4 SuperjackDid_

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Posted 10 December 2011 - 06:37 AM

Piracetam for obvious reasons. If it failed after a few weeks of trial and error, I'll try Aniracetam.


i think you can stick with Piracetam ,add Pregnenolone + adaptogen :)

Piracetam efficiency depend on balance of hormones


i have experment with many nootropics but i'm back for quest about Piracetam efficiency .

like someone on board said ,Piracetam surpass his expectation !me too.

#5 ODAN

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Posted 10 December 2011 - 11:04 AM

Vimmortal apparently has 11mg of Zinc, which is 73% of DV, should I take more anyway ?


Excellent, I'll check out the flaxseed oil ! Thanks



I'll check out what Pregnenolone and Adaptogen are. So Piracetam depend on a balance of hormones ? I remember a thread where people on low-carb diet suffered quite a great deal under the effect on piracetam. Once they ate some carbs again, piracetam stopped having such ill effects. Perhaps it's related ?


Man, I wish I was educated enough to dwell into this. Ahahah, I'd better educate myself for my bachelor degree before my biology one.



Alright, time to research some more today. Thanks guys

#6 ODAN

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Posted 12 December 2011 - 03:59 PM

Here's what I decided so far.

I'll replace the fish oil by flaxseed oil as Mr.Happy recommended, for DHA/EPA ALA, I am thinking about eating spirulina, what do you guys think ? I'm not too fond of the idea of DHA/EPA ratios and whatnot, I'd rather eat a food that contain it and let my body do its job on this one.

Wow Nootropix, nice one on the Pregnenolone ! I haven't finished my research on it but boy does it show promise ! Thanks a lot !


However, why an adaptogen ? This just gave me an enormous amount of study to do ahah, it seems to be a very wide topic. I understand the Pregnenolone, but why the adoptogen ? Do you have an advice as to which to take ?

#7 ODAN

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Posted 23 December 2011 - 11:20 AM

Alright ! New things added to the list ! Ashwaganda and Rhodiola !

For the Pregnenolone, I'm 22, I don't think I need an hormone precursor yet, do I ?


However, it may perhaps be useful, I've seen a person on the forum whose Piracetam effects were incredibly dwindling. A few doses of Pregnenolone and back to its original effects it was ! It does seem like you said, Nootropix.


But again, I'm 22. Do you think I really should supplement this on the long term ?


I believe it would be better, as a 22 years old man, to take Pregnenolone the day I feel terrible taking Piracetam and no matter what I do, I can't get Piracetam to have its old effects on me.


I'd really like your opinion on this.


For Rhodiola, I believe I'll get it here http://www.shi.se/arctic_root.htm.

Here's the list so far


Piracetam + Uridine (Sublingual) + ALCAR + Lion's mane [FUNGI PERFECT LIQUID ORAL] + Vimmortal + Flaxseed oil for omega + Spirulina for EPA, DHA, ALA, everything under the sun + Ashwaganda + Rhodiola [ARCTIC ROOT Swedish Herbal Institute]


Alright I'll start to dwell a bit in doses.

For Piracetam and Alcar, I'll go with Chrono's words.


I would recommend 800-1200mg piracetam, twice a day (5 hours apart). Some people recommend an "attack dose" of double this for a few weeks, but I don't think it's entirely necessary. I would recommend 1g of ALCAR with each dose of piracetam.

#8 ODAN

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Posted 23 December 2011 - 11:40 AM

Gotu Kola seems interesting as an NGF too. If anybody would recommend me Gotu Kola instead of Rhodiola or Ashwaganda, I'm all ears. Or hell, if there's no reason not to take all of the adaptogens together, I'd like to know about it ahah

Right now, having done almost no research on Gotu Kola, I will keep it on the side in case Ashwaganda or Rhodiola is unbearable for me.

#9 ODAN

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Posted 23 December 2011 - 11:46 AM

I am also putting on the sidelines Metformin, I'm interested and will learn more about it. But again, my body is not a sink, if I have to take a nootropics shotgun approach, I might as well just take the regular shotgun approach, ahahahah

http://www.longecity...ension-drug-r32

#10 ODAN

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Posted 23 December 2011 - 01:45 PM

Alright, another addendum, the Uridine will come from Ecological Formula. I'll just edit the first post to avoid spamming.

Uh. Seems like there's a time limit to edit stuff. Well, alright then.


Piracetam + Uridine (Sublingual) [ECOLOGICAL FORMULA] + ALCAR + Lion's mane [FUNGI PERFECT LIQUID ORAL] + Vimmortal + Flaxseed oil for omega + Spirulina for EPA, DHA, ALA, everything under the sun + Ashwaganda [JARROW] + Rhodiola [ARCTIC ROOT Swedish Herbal Institute] + Bacopa


Addendum: Rhodiola will be cycled 5 days on and two days off per week and then 1 month off every three months.

I add Bacopa to the stack, and take it with Ashwaganda before sleep.


For the order, I'll probably take Piracetam + Uridine + ALCAR for a few days, if nothing happens, I'll add Lion's Mane, then Rhodiola in the morning, then Ashwagandha in the evening, then Bacopa in the evening.


I'm already taking Vimmortal, Flaxseed oil and Spirulina, I feel fine ! Ahahah

Edited by ODAN, 23 December 2011 - 03:36 PM.


#11 gamesguru

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Posted 23 December 2011 - 03:55 PM

i would consider some herbal extracts: green tea, bacopa, gingko, ashwagandha, hawthorn, and many others depending upon the relative strengths of your organ systems.

piracetam, fish/flax oil, uridine, alcar, lion's maine, rhodiloa, spirulina, and Vimmortal are all good ideas.

#12 ODAN

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Posted 23 December 2011 - 03:59 PM

Hehehe, indeed indeed, thank you. I actually am an enormous tea drinker ! I drink a bowl of green tea, one of Hibiscus and one of green Rooibos everyday !


I think I actually got my stack made here. Now, I need to know the doses and the brands. I'm halfway there after two months of research, I'm pretty happy ahahah


Thanks again for the answer !


Addendum: Piracetam + Uridine (Sublingual) [Bulk powder] + ALCAR + Lion's mane [FUNGI PERFECT LIQUID ORAL] + Vimmortal + Flaxseed oil for omega + Spirulina for EPA, DHA, ALA, everything under the sun + Ashwaganda [JARROW] + Rhodiola [ARCTIC ROOT Swedish Herbal Institute] + Bacopa [AyurSanté]


The bacopa of AyurSanté is 40% Saponnins containing Bacosides and each capsule is 600mg.


Regarding time and doses:


800-1200mg piracetam twice a day (5 hours apart). With 1g of ALCAR with each dose of piracetam.

Uridine powder taken sublingualy 250mg

Lion's mane: 20 drop twice per day

Rhodiola: 2 capsules of 180mg in the morning

Ashwaganda will be one pill of Jarrow every evening, 225mg

Bacopa will be one pill every evening, 600mg


Hmm, hmm. I believe I'm pretty much done

Edited by ODAN, 23 December 2011 - 07:34 PM.


#13 ODAN

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Posted 23 December 2011 - 09:28 PM

Ah and here we are, probably the last obstacle.


I searched and could not find a brand that was convincingly over every other in regard to ALCAR and Piracetam.


Does anybody have a recommendation ?


Right now, I have Relentless Improvement and Cerebral Health in my sights. Wait, scratch that. The prices of Relentless Improvement are blown in the water by Cerebral Health bulk prices.


http://www.cerebralh...supplements.php


I'd really like some input on that one. Anybody got a good brand of Piracetam or ALCAR in bulk ?


I'll wait for advices until I receive an answer to an e-mail I sent to all European distributor of Arctic Root by the Swedish Herbal Institute to inquire their prices.


I'll also research on my side until then.


If nothing comes up then, Cerebral Health it is.

Thanks for all the help so far guys

#14 MrHappy

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Posted 24 December 2011 - 12:55 PM

Caffeine doesn't go well with uridine, just to let you know. :)

Also, maybe this is worth reading:
http://www.longecity...673#entry492673



#15 ODAN

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Posted 24 December 2011 - 01:06 PM

Hehehe, thank you MrHappy, I was already following your thread ! I already have a water filter, a Berkley, that also filter Fluoride. What's more, I avoid Bisphenol-A that way, as my bottles are Sigg BPA-free bottles.

I drink only green-tea as far as caffeine-like stuff goes, and it's theine. And I already drink milk and apple juice, to limit absorption of Fluor and Aluminum in my Green tea =)


Health health health, ahahah, thanks again

#16 nito

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Posted 24 December 2011 - 02:48 PM

Hehehe, indeed indeed, thank you. I actually am an enormous tea drinker ! I drink a bowl of green tea, one of Hibiscus and one of green Rooibos everyday !


I think I actually got my stack made here. Now, I need to know the doses and the brands. I'm halfway there after two months of research, I'm pretty happy ahahah


Thanks again for the answer !


Addendum: Piracetam + Uridine (Sublingual) [Bulk powder] + ALCAR + Lion's mane [FUNGI PERFECT LIQUID ORAL] + Vimmortal + Flaxseed oil for omega + Spirulina for EPA, DHA, ALA, everything under the sun + Ashwaganda [JARROW] + Rhodiola [ARCTIC ROOT Swedish Herbal Institute] + Bacopa [AyurSanté]


The bacopa of AyurSanté is 40% Saponnins containing Bacosides and each capsule is 600mg.


Regarding time and doses:


800-1200mg piracetam twice a day (5 hours apart). With 1g of ALCAR with each dose of piracetam.

Uridine powder taken sublingualy 250mg

Lion's mane: 20 drop twice per day

Rhodiola: 2 capsules of 180mg in the morning

Ashwaganda will be one pill of Jarrow every evening, 225mg

Bacopa will be one pill every evening, 600mg


Hmm, hmm. I believe I'm pretty much done


20 drops lions mane a day sounds alot, is it not meant to be like 2 drops a day?

#17 ODAN

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Posted 24 December 2011 - 02:54 PM

I have not a single idea. This is what they say "Our Certified Organic mushroom extracts can be consumed directly or mixed into your favorite hot or cold beverage. Suggested use: 15 - 30 drops, twice per day."

http://www2.mailorde...ITEM=1&MITEM=1I


I thought it was a lot, too. I don't know how long each bottle will last like this =/


But, well, perhaps I didn't read it well ?

#18 absent minded

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Posted 26 December 2011 - 02:00 AM

what about brewer's yeast as a source of uridine?

#19 MrHappy

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Posted 26 December 2011 - 05:09 AM

It's not a great source.



#20 ODAN

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Posted 26 December 2011 - 09:34 AM

Thanks guys, well, I think I won't take Rhodiola after all. Seems like it's a "booster" of sort. I'll take one box to test it out but I'll use a booster when I need it, not everyday ahah


Man I'm still having trouble with that Piracetam and Alcar. I'll keep searching, but if anybody got a recommendation, I'm very much all ears ahah


Once I get the ALCAR and the Piracetam, I'll purchase everything and ship it home, try it, and tell you of my experience.

#21 ODAN

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Posted 26 December 2011 - 01:14 PM

So. I think I understood that Bulk powder was better than capsules because there were no additives.

I can't find bulk piracetam except on Cerebral Health. So, I might as well get Piracetam and Alcar from them.


Is there objections ?

#22 NeuronicObserver

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Posted 27 December 2011 - 12:34 AM

I am buying mine from TheBulkSource on Amazon. They sell ALCAR and Piracetam powder in 100g, 200g, 500g or 1000g bags. Their prices are the lowest I've seen, yet their Ebay account has a good rating. The one issue is that I have not seen any lab test verification on the purity, but they claim it is 100% pure.

#23 csrpj

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Posted 27 December 2011 - 10:56 AM

maybe introduce different parts one-at-a-time (for example: a few weeks of uridine+alcar+dha/epa+etc, then add an adaptogen, then piracetam, etc)... other you won't know what is working and what isn't (or what could be harming)

#24 ODAN

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Posted 27 December 2011 - 12:37 PM

Indeed indeed, my intention is to do just that, friend. But it's true that perhaps I should take uridine after I take piracetam + alcar. I originally intended to take piracetam + alcar + uridine.


Wisdom calls to listen to you, and I will. Thank you.

#25 kevinseven11

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Posted 28 December 2011 - 04:34 AM

Your body seems to not absorb flax seed aswell so id take Cod Liver oil over that. DHA is the fatty acid you want for your nootropic benefits. Cod Liver contains the most.
Alot of these nootropics will decrease your libido whether from hormone changes or any other mechanism (Probably unknown) so Id advise you to add either Cordyceps (C. sinensis)
or Mucuna Pruriens to increase your testosterone and or libido. These nootropics/libido enhancers are needed by some (active men) and unneeded by most.
Edit: Also any choline source is anti dopamine, so thats another reason to include mucuna.

Edited by kevinseven11, 28 December 2011 - 05:09 AM.

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#26 MrHappy

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Posted 28 December 2011 - 05:17 AM

Kevin, uridine acts as a dopamine modulator, so no dopa supps needed. :)



#27 kevinseven11

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Posted 28 December 2011 - 05:37 AM

Ah Thanks mr happy, Somehow I missed that. Dopamine from Uridine will lower prolactin (that was increased by choline) and low prolactin = increased testosterone, so all is well. Are there any posts on this forum that highlight all there is to know about Uridine?

#28 MrHappy

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Posted 28 December 2011 - 05:43 AM

Sure.. these 2 come to mind. :)

http://www.longecity...ne-uridine-dha/
http://www.longecity...r-dha-vitamins/


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#29 ODAN

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Posted 28 December 2011 - 10:27 AM

Thanks for the replies ! Well, I see. It seems I will have to eat fish oil then. However, do you know of a brand that test for mercury and PCBs ?

I remember reading somewhere that Salmon was a better source than Cod, was it right ? Gotta read more on the subject. Ahahah, and I thought I was done.


I believe I'll go for Cerebral Health for the piracetam and the alcar, by the way.


Ah, and I don't mind the decrease in libido, for now. :ph34r:

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#30 ODAN

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Posted 28 December 2011 - 02:10 PM

Alright, got my source of fish oil. I'll go for Nordic Natural.


Alright, I'm about to pull the trigger.


Piracetam [Bulk powder: Cerebral Health] + Uridine (Sublingual) [Bulk powder from Ebay] + ALCAR [Bulk powder: Cerebral Health] + Lion's mane [FUNGI PERFECT LIQUID ORAL] + Vimmortal + Fish oil [Nordic Natural] + Ashwaganda [JARROW] + Bacopa [AyurSanté]





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