64 replies to this topic

[Ron]

To put microwaving in the same category as deep frying seems a little silly too. I assume it's because of the "nutrient killing" theory? There's actually a lot of research showing the opposite (microwaves preserve nutrients better than many other means of cooking).

[#1hit]

I'll guess that it's because he encourages more raw, whole foods. And that all of your carbs should be primarily vegetables. Naturally, he considers this an upgrade to a high-cooked Paleo diet. He considers it an "upgrade" because it's paleo philosophy + "latest scientific research."

What I don't get is where the "latest scientific research" is and how does it cotribute to change (in what) the paleo classical diet. And, overall, why that "latest scientific research" supports a paleo diet (which I didn't know of until I visited the site yesterday).

I wish I had more time to give a more detailed response, but I would suggest watching the 30 minute video on mycotoxins before reading about his diet, as it gives the second core elements of the diet, avoiding toxicity. Also, check out the bulletproof booklist. Much of his philosophy is shaped by the ideas in those books.

To me the most important takeways from his blog are

A) eat only grass fed meats, dairy, and eggs
B) get your vitamin d levels in the 50-60 range (I forget the scale its measured in).

Good luck!

[Xhenaro]

Adding 20 points with duel-n-back? Looks like he didn't read the follow-up studies. Probably lots of good tips on his site but I would take them with a grain of salt.

Could you elaborate about the dual-n-back thing? I am actually kinda trying to get information about it...

[JLL]

Could you elaborate about the dual-n-back thing? I am actually kinda trying to get information about it...

There's some criticism of the original study here:

http://www.gwern.net...B FAQ#criticism

But it seems like there have been some positive studies after the first one as well, so I'm not sure what the current understanding is.

[Esoparagon]

When someone experiments on themselves and finds something that works like this guy and the more famous Timothy Ferris, it's more akin to broscience than anything else. Sure, it's interesting and could help many people but you got to take it with a grain of salt so to speak.

[Dave Asprey]

The bulletproof diet is different from Paleo in that I designed it to control inflammation from every source I could find, which is why some foods are placed where they are.

The discussion about blueberries here is an example. Too much fructose. I'm aware of the health benefits of blueberries but I believe bilberry or blueberry extract is a better way to go, or perhaps something like astaxanthin may confer the same benefits.

I also update the diet roughly every 6 months based on new research. Coming up, there is more detail on low toxin starches, for example. I'm also shifting nuts further to the right because of existing concerns about omega 6, but also because the contamination of nut crops by increasingly aggressive mycotoxin forming molds like fusarium is getting worse.

Anyway, I appreciate the discussion, and I'll do my best to swing by here on occasion and answer questions. If any of you are in the Bay Area, I would invite you to come to a www.SVHI.com meeting for free in Palo Alto. This coming week, we have a physician who practices electrical medicine presenting.

Be well,
Dave

[Dave Asprey]

Thanks for bringing up my site in this thread. I'm kind of honored actually. Here's my attempt to answer most questions and reply to most criticisms in a single post.

It's not that obvious from my site but I’m a “real” anti-aging guy.

I’ve been either a board member of or President of a nonprofit anti-aging group for nearly a decade. Check out www.svhi.com (we recently changed the name from smartlifeforum.com). We just finished putting more than 10 years worth of video lectures from leading health and antiaging people on the web, including Aubrey de Grey and many others.

I’m an advisor to the international aging research portfolio http://www.facebook.com/AgingPortfolio which does an amazing job of pulling together antiaging research from around the globe, including funding sources.

I also started a nonprofit called Waste Nothing that convinced cloud providers to donate excess compute capacity for antiaging research. The economic model didn't work out, but we did donate a lot of capacity to a protein folding simulation in support of the Methuselah Foundation.

Edited by Dave Asprey, 08 February 2012 - 10:29 PM.

[Dave Asprey]

Hi guys,
Thanks for bringing up my site in this thread. I'm kind of honored actually. Here's my attempt to answer most questions and reply to most criticisms in a single post.

It's not that obvious from my site but I’m a “real” anti-aging guy.

I’ve been either a board member of or President of a nonprofit anti-aging group for nearly a decade. Check out www.svhi.com (we recently changed the name from smartlifeforum.com). We just finished putting more than 10 years worth of video lectures from leading health and antiaging people on the web, including Aubrey de Grey and many others.

I’m an advisor to the international aging research portfolio http://www.facebook.com/AgingPortfolio which does an amazing job of pulling together antiaging research from around the globe, including funding sources.

I also started a nonprofit called Waste Nothing that convinced cloud providers to donate excess compute capacity for antiaging research. The economic model didn't work out, but we did donate a lot of capacity to a protein folding simulation in support of the Methuselah Foundation.

Here's the thing about my site, as slimy as it comes across to the “real” anti-aging crowd. People read it. People who would never in 1000 years read Imminst. The audience at Longecity is moderately educated, high-income, childless men aged under 25 and over 65. In other words, young people who want to be immortal, and old people who don’t want to die. I get that, and I’m one of those guys who would have been here when I was 22 if the site had existed.

The only problem is that antiaging will never be mainstream if the most this forum can do in years of operation is to appeal to a narrow segment of the population that is extremely loyal. In one year of operation, BulletproofExec has become #39,000 ranked in the US – compared to about 20k for Longecity after many years.

In other words, people are talking about anti-aging. People who would never know about it otherwise. One of the reasons I started the blog is to bring what we know to a more mainstream audience. If that means I have to be “slimy” to do it, I don't really care. Read the comments on my site about how people's lives are transformed and it's hard to argue that the site has not done at least some good.

[Dave Asprey]

Here's the thing about my site, as slimy as it comes across to the “real” anti-aging crowd. People read it. People who would never in 1000 years read Imminst. The audience at Longecity is moderately educated, high-income, childless men aged under 25 and over 65. In other words, young people who want to be immortal, and old people who don’t want to die. I get that, and I’m one of those guys who would have been here when I was 22 if the site had existed.

The only problem is that antiaging will never be mainstream if the most this forum can do in years of operation is to appeal to a narrow segment of the population that is extremely loyal. In one year of operation, BulletproofExec has become #39,000 ranked in the US – compared to about 20k for Longecity after many years.

In other words, people are talking about anti-aging. People who would never know about it otherwise. One of the reasons I started the blog is to bring what we know to a more mainstream audience. If that means I have to be “slimy” to do it, I don't really care. Read the comments on my site about how people's lives are transformed and it's hard to argue that the site has not done at least some good.

[Dave Asprey]

With respect to the Bulletproof Diet, I created the basic tenets of this long before Paleo was a word that referred to nutrition. The research I refer to that my diet will be published later this year by Wiley in my 1st book on nutrition. It is a hands-on guide to using epigenetics to have healthier, smarter, better babies. I had to cut the references down from 1300 to 900 for length.

The bulletproof diet is different from Paleo in that I designed it to control inflammation from every source I could find, which is why some foods are placed where they are.

The discussion about blueberries here is an example. Too much fructose. I'm aware of the health benefits of blueberries but I believe bilberry or blueberry extract is a better way to go, or perhaps something like astaxanthin may confer the same benefits.

I also update the diet roughly every 6 months based on new research. Coming up, there is more detail on low toxin starches, for example. I'm also shifting nuts further to the right because of existing concerns about omega 6, but also because the contamination of nut crops by increasingly aggressive mycotoxin forming molds like fusarium is getting worse.

Anyway, I appreciate the discussion, and I'll do my best to swing by here on occasion and answer questions. If any of you are in the Bay Area, I would invite you to come to a www.SVHI.com meeting for free in Palo Alto. This coming week, we have a physician who practices electrical medicine presenting.

Be well,
Dave

Edited by Dave Asprey, 08 February 2012 - 10:34 PM.

[Mind]

Thanks for all the information Dave. I (we) realize Longecity does not have a widespread audience, but someone has to fill this niche. We have grown slowly and I am ok with that. All paths will lead to unlimited life extension in coming decades and we will be here waiting with open arms.

[Dave Asprey]

Mind, sorry for the multiple posts. Some kind of browser issue there; now it won't let me delete them. I totally appreciate Longecity and the fact that other "real" experts collaborate here. Don't change anything! Just trying to get these ideas out to people who are too busy or distracted to actually realize what's out there.

[VesperLynd]

I am curious about the reference to blueberry extract vs. blueberries themselves...would not the extract be highly concentrated and therefore pure sugar? (not sure of ratios of various - oses.)

Thanks, VL

[niner]

I am curious about the reference to blueberry extract vs. blueberries themselves...would not the extract be highly concentrated and therefore pure sugar? (not sure of ratios of various - oses.)

No, the extraction is done in a way that gets little or no sugar into the final product. In theory, you only get the "good stuff", but you lose fiber, and undoubtedly other things that may or may not be beneficial. Blueberries don't have much sugar, so they are one of my staple fruits.

[Tomas E]

I thought raspberries, have more fibers, better minerals/vitamins, less calories and even less sugar then blueberries. Or does blueberries have something raspberries dont?

[donjoe]

Here's the thing about my site, as slimy as it comes across to the “real” anti-aging crowd. People read it. People who would never in 1000 years read Imminst.
[...]
The only problem is that antiaging will never be mainstream if the most this forum can do in years of operation is to appeal to a narrow segment of the population that is extremely loyal. In one year of operation, BulletproofExec has become #39,000 ranked in the US – compared to about 20k for Longecity after many years.

Oh get over yourself. Aubrey de Grey and websites like this have done much more than you to get the public interest trend started. Then you come along, late to the show, just riding a pre-existing trend and have the audacity to claim credit for other people's work?!

In other words, people are talking about anti-aging. People who would never know about it otherwise. One of the reasons I started the blog is to bring what we know to a more mainstream audience.

No it's not. Other sources were already doing a much better job anyway. The one and only reason you started your blog was to bring "what you know"(?) to a very specific audience: to people who don't know enough to be sceptical of your claims and who can be easily convinced to shell out hundreds and thousands of dollars for your precious seminars and your (probably useless) little electric gadgets.

This coming week, we have a physician who practices electrical medicine presenting.

Oooh, "electrical medicine", sounds fancy. Except there's no such thing, mr. Moneygrubbing Liar.

As for the pseudo-scientific nonsense you're using to sell people your "special coffee": http://cooking.stack...nge.com/a/19931

Feel free to go away now, you shameless quack.

[Dave Asprey]

Donjoe, most every anti-aging physician I respect has been labeled a quack by professional skeptics who spend more time pointing fingers than doing their own science. One of my goals is to get listed on quackbusters, which is tough since I'm not an MD. As for the shameless accusation, I accept it. I have no shame about what I'm trying to do.

Check out http://www.svhi.com - a 19-year old anti-aging education nonprofit group. I've been on the board for nearly 10 years and chairman for about 5. Aubrey has spoken at our group. Steve Fowkes, author of Smart Drugs II, is a member and advisor and friend. The videos are online. For free. But the traffic isn't that high, and we can do better. Thus, the other site.

It's clear you think I'm a scammer. Those who know me understand my motives. Listen to my podcasts and look for the scam - there isn't one. Integrity matters, which is why you target it with these impolite comments. Fortunately, consistent integrity is easy to spot.

Have a great day.

Everyone else, I still love the conversations and knowledge here! It was a post here years ago that got me to try methylene blue for a couple months. You won't read this stuff anywhere else!

[nupi]

I am still at a loss why bulletproof coffee (the stuff with ECOO in there) should be any more helpful than any other diet including Caffeine and MCTs (which more likely than not does not include ruining a perfectly good espresso).

[Dave Asprey]

nupi, there are a bunch of answers to it. Butyric acid heals the gut and turns off inflammation in the brain. Mycotoxins in most coffee contributor information in the brain and elsewhere. It is not the caffeine that does this; it is the di-terpines. I use my pharmaceutical purity MCT because I'd have to eat 6 times more coconut oil to get the same amount of C8 and C10, and I don't cut it with glycerin from questionable sources like the cheap stuff.

[Mind]

Here's the thing about my site, as slimy as it comes across to the “real” anti-aging crowd. People read it. People who would never in 1000 years read Imminst.
[...]
The only problem is that antiaging will never be mainstream if the most this forum can do in years of operation is to appeal to a narrow segment of the population that is extremely loyal. In one year of operation, BulletproofExec has become #39,000 ranked in the US – compared to about 20k for Longecity after many years.

Oh get over yourself. Aubrey de Grey and websites like this have done much more than you to get the public interest trend started. Then you come along, late to the show, just riding a pre-existing trend and have the audacity to claim credit for other people's work?!

In other words, people are talking about anti-aging. People who would never know about it otherwise. One of the reasons I started the blog is to bring what we know to a more mainstream audience.

No it's not. Other sources were already doing a much better job anyway. The one and only reason you started your blog was to bring "what you know"(?) to a very specific audience: to people who don't know enough to be sceptical of your claims and who can be easily convinced to shell out hundreds and thousands of dollars for your precious seminars and your (probably useless) little electric gadgets.

This coming week, we have a physician who practices electrical medicine presenting.

Oooh, "electrical medicine", sounds fancy. Except there's no such thing, mr. Moneygrubbing Liar.

As for the pseudo-scientific nonsense you're using to sell people your "special coffee": http://cooking.stack...nge.com/a/19931

Feel free to go away now, you shameless quack.

I think what Dave is doing is great. I don't mind that he makes a living off of his website or seminars. I find that most of the information he has compiled is high quality. He is inspiring new generations to not accept aging and death as inevitable. Keep up the good work Dave and thanks for taking time to answer questions here at LongeCity.

[alecnevsky]

I tried to follow the bulletproof diet less than a month ago in my ketosis induction stage and found it very difficult with respect to exclusion of whole milk and cheese in particular. It was revealed to me then that I could achieve ketosis much easier by including cheese and other dairy products Dave somewhat discounts. Ideally, I'd like to have known that before obsessing over mycotoxins etc. and going into a full-blown keto-flu with little alternatives but chugging MCT oil.

So if I were to make a suggestion: The Bulletproof diet needs to present itself better in a context of other atkins/paleo/lchf schemes to its target audience (childless collegiate men in their 20s with little understanding of nutrition for example.) In fact, there was virtually nothing that stood out about ketosis induction on the site when I started following the diet abruptly (after seeing that frank CNN interview Dave gave on Modafinil which gave some credibility.)

Essentially, once I was on the site checking out brain hacks, I started following the diet and did not know or was prepared for the induction stage. (There is virtually nothing in the toolbox about electrolyte reinforcement during ketosis induction.) So it's a great dietary scheme to which I will likely return once I am fully keto-adapted but it's almost too extreme of a scheme to avoid referencing diets of similar nature. Obviously Dave does not want mainstream people or Joe Rogan bros leaving the site to go check out paleo blogs and boards and becoming overwhelmed but after feeling like death for a week that's exactly what I ended up doing. Anyway, I like the approach but the site needs more context.

[Dave Asprey]

Alec, fair point. I've been putting a lot of attention into making information on the site easier to find. I do right about the so-called induction flu, and it does say upgraded Paleo in that title at the top...a reference to the paleo guys. I also talked about supplements to use during that time, especially L glutamine. But it is not in an easy to accessible place, and that's my fault. Apologies for that.

The new design just went live and I'm hard at work on a book with full context for the diet. It's not just ATkins or Paleo - there are things in it (besides mycotoxins) that aren't well understood. More coming!!!!

Thanks for taking the time to post on your experience on it. It helps me improve a lot.

[alecnevsky]

Thanks Dave. Are you talking about the podcast where you recommend 80g/day for the gut? Otherwise, I heard that too much can just facilitate gluconeogenesis.

In regards to this search problem. I wish the text of the podcasts could be searchable. For example, I remember the suggestion of glutamine but cannot find the podcast associated with it. If the transcripts were in PDF or at least in one full page it would be viable to search, otherwise I am forced to leave the site and google the query.

[Dave Asprey]

Alec, the 80g/day is only a short term gut healing thing. I'vetalked about it on various podcasts and likely in the forums or comments - 10 grams when necessary to turn off brain fog and "bleah" that comes from going into ketosis when you're not used to it. If you are consuming high-protein to go into ketosis, you will feel like crap. If you are consuming high-fat, it is far less painful, but you still must oxidize the toxins stored in your own body fat.

Every transcript is available as a.pdf when you downloaded from the bio Hackert toolbox, which is free on the site. I'm really hoping the new layout and the reorganization make it easier. I realize the new search functionality is not adequate, and I've asked my guys to fix it.

[alecnevsky]

Alec, the 80g/day is only a short term gut healing thing. I'vetalked about it on various podcasts and likely in the forums or comments - 10 grams when necessary to turn off brain fog and "bleah" that comes from going into ketosis when you're not used to it. If you are consuming high-protein to go into ketosis, you will feel like crap. If you are consuming high-fat, it is far less painful, but you still must oxidize the toxins stored in your own body fat.

Every transcript is available as a.pdf when you downloaded from the bio Hackert toolbox, which is free on the site. I'm really hoping the new layout and the reorganization make it easier. I realize the new search functionality is not adequate, and I've asked my guys to fix it.

My fault! I didn't look at the transcripts from the toolbox. Thank you for pointing that out to me as I am still in keto-retarded stage of my adaptation. I noted the Glutamine fix will search for it in the pdfs.

Edit: Does anyone know or can reference the science behind glutamine on ketosis? I am afraid of getting thrown off since it's an amino acid.

Edited by alecnevsky, 08 April 2013 - 07:18 AM.

[Raza]

I've been reading the bulletproof executive and trying some of the things recommended there, as well as taking a fair amount of inspiration from the bulletproof diet. Some of the hacks there have done good things for me, others didn't seem to work for me, but overall I would rate the site fairly high as a source of ideas and information. The flashy, self-celebritizing presentation turned me off initially, but I've come to realize there's a lot of substance underneath and the commercial/informative motivation balance behind the site is actually a lot better than a many places on the net. I was a bit disappointed off to hear about a paywalled section to the site coming up, but that still beats having commercial interests (not-so) covertly integrated in the deceptive selection and presentation of health info as is so common in this industry.

@Dave - Is there an update in the works to the Bulletproof Diet main page? Reading recent stuff, it seems quite a few of your opinions have updated from when it was written, and it'd be good to have all of those in one place.

Edited by Raza, 17 April 2013 - 09:24 AM.

[alecnevsky]

UPDATE: Haven't gotten my labs yet (hdl/ldl etc.) but my systolic blood pressure reading jumped up like 15-20pts (not percent) and RHR by roughly 6 bpms ever since I've been inducted into nutritional ketosis (6-8 weeks) and been drinking sea salt. First, I am thinking, in view of all anecdotal evidence, how in the bloody hell is this possible considering I lost 10lbs of essentially fat.

Then I realize that I've been chugging sea salt -- in fear of dehydration from ketosis more so than by Dave's suggestions here. In fact, this should be in no way misconstrued that I am trying to blame anyone. What I am trying to do is figure out whether 1) I am warranted in attributing the increase in blood pressure/rhr to sea salt (2-4g day) or 2)the presumably high levels of cholesterol that I may soon receive in the mail., or maybe, 3) that the sea salt I was drinking was shit quality or 4) the keto components of my diet are inferior.

The reason I am thinking sea salt is b/c I just cannot fathom that losing 10lbs of glucose-collected fat, feeling great mentally and physically, despite being largely sedentary for the exam period, would lead to high cholesterol levels. Unless I have major visceral fat, it's just inconceivable to me that at 6-7% body fat I would have high LDL which would motivate high blood pressure reading. Is it the salt?

I will update on blood results later.

Edited by alecnevsky, 28 May 2013 - 07:37 AM.

[Hebbeh]

Of course it's the salt. Why the hell are you chugging salt??? Ketosis does not cause dehydration and salt does not prevent dehydration even if it did (which it doesn't) Salt is a electrolyte expelled in sweat and urine and even athletes that sweat a lot don't chug salt. Not a good idea...ditch the salt.

[zorba990]

Heard of him. Did know that he follows a modified paleo diet. His diet looks pretty decent for health and he obviously, anecdotally, reports he feels great.

I never heard of the bullet proof coffee, but I do put butter in my coffee from time to time. I thought I was weird. Now I feel like a genius, lol.

Does anyone know where to get whey protein concentrate (WPC) from raw milk (as reccomended by Bulletproof and Mercola)? The Obama adminstration and FDA are on the warpath to make sure no one ever touches, eats, drinks, or consumes raw dairy products, so I was surprised that WPC from raw milk is available.

Protein factory, "Native Whey" seems close.

[alecnevsky]

Of course it's the salt. Why the hell are you chugging salt??? Ketosis does not cause dehydration and salt does not prevent dehydration even if it did (which it doesn't) Salt is a electrolyte expelled in sweat and urine and even athletes that sweat a lot don't chug salt. Not a good idea...ditch the salt.

Lol. Thanks. I was very keto-sick first 2-3 weeks coming off my daily 2-3 bottles of gatorade and multiple cliff bars. It was not a "smooth" adaptation. The electrolyte balance is what I was trying to correct, given that we apparently expel much more electrolytes via urine when ketotic. I wonder if I overcorrected.

I am still trying to figure out what's what here: I concede butter and coffee but not sure what the deal is with the salt.

http://www.bulletpro...alt-and-coffee/


The above would suggest I am not eating enough salt...

Edited by alecnevsky, 28 May 2013 - 11:49 PM.