1755 replies to this topic

[sciwalk]

Well, something like that I can most certianly mention to my physician at my next visit, next week, but I highly doubt I have a gallbladder problem. That would show in other ways, changed bowl movements, abdominal pains, diarrea and the like. I am more regular then I have ever been in my life. In fact, before, quite often, I would have diarrea and other bowl problems to the extent that my physician worried about Crohn's disease (I didn't). But with my improved diet, life style and supplements I can definately say I am regular as can be, without pain or other issues in that area of my body. I also still eat dairy, whole milk, lots of yogurt, cheese and no problems there with desire or digestion at all so not an issue of fat. Probably just mental, I just, for whatever reasons, have taken an objection to meat. One of the reasons I decided to take AGAG, along with other changes in my life, were to improve my quality of life. I know very well that meat (what I have available to me) can be very questionable. So I am sure on some subconcious level I am creating a strong avoidence for it. But, hey, I need to throw the info out there so I can watch things as they develop. Info to track back on.

[AdamI]

Aren't humans designed to eat meat primarely? Doesn't seem to be good thing you don't want proteins anymore...Do you have a stronger desire for nuts now then maybe?

[zorba990]

I don't find any reason to suppose that high quality meat like grassed buffalo is in any way detrimental to my health. Dairy, on the other hand has quite a few strikes against it IMHO, although grassed whey protein is something I consume quite a bit of as well so I'm a bit hypocritical about dairy in that respect. I do best on meat, vegetables and fruit as far as controlling calories for mild CR (1500-2000 Kcals max depending on workout schedule). I can eat all that carby grain stuff but I prefer not too -- its just too easy to overdue it for me and I like to have my body fat around 10% or lower as I think this limits the amount of fat soluble toxins that are carried around (my opinion -- no references).

I may have to take back what I said about topical skin application of Epitalon, because now that I've stopped for a week I'm starting to see some differences. The dreams are continuing even after having stopped taking it orally so I think some amount of the pineal optimization persists for a while.

[levianthan]

can this thing be injected subcutaneously?like other peptides??in that case what would be the ideal dose??

[levianthan]

there seem to be other peptides other than epithalon which could have anti aging properties

Effects of Short Peptides on Lymphocyte Chromatin in Senile Subjects

Authors: Khavinson V.K.1; Lezhava T.A.1; Malinin V.V.1

Source: Bulletin of Experimental Biology and Medicine, January 2004,
vol. 137, no. 1, pp. 78-81(4)

Publisher: Kluwer Academic Publishers
< previous article | next article > View Table of Contents

Abstract:
Effects of synthetic short peptides (Vilon, Epithalon, Livagen,
Prostamax, and Cortagen) on activity of ribosome genes, parameters of
common heterochromatin melting, polymorphism of structural
heterochromatin (C segments) of chromosomes 1, 9, and 16, and
variability of facultative heterochromatin were studied in leukocytes of
subjects aged 75-88 years. All the studied peptides induced activation
of ribosome genes, decondensation of densely packed chromatin fibrils,
and release of genes repressed as a result of age-specific condensation
of the cellular euchromatin regions (deheterochromatinization of
facultative chromatin). Treatment with Epithalon, Livagen, and Prostamax
led to decondensation of chromosome 1 pericentromeric structural
chromatin, while Epithalon and Livagen treatment led to changes in
chromosome 9 as well. Hence, short peptides activate heterochromatin and
heterochromatinized regions of cell chromosomes in senile subjects.

Keywords: short peptides; aging; heterochromatinization; chromatin
activation

Language: Unknown

Document Type: Research article

DOI: 10.1023/B:BEBM.0000024393.40560.05

Affiliations: 1: St. Petersburg Institute of Bioregulation and
Gerontology, North-Western Division of Russian Academy of Medical
Sciences; Department of Genetics, Tbilisi State University., Email:
vvm@gerontology.ru

[smithx]

On the one hand, decondensation of densely packed chromatin might be good if it allows necessary genes to be expressed which are not being expressed.

On the other hand, if the chromatin is densely packed for a reason (as it often is), unpacking it would expose the DNA, which could make genes which are being suppressed get expressed instead. Exposed DNA is also more likely to be damaged, which could lead to various problems including cancer.

Hard to say if this would be good or bad.

[levianthan]

dont know if this has been posted before:

Epithalon Decelerates Aging and Suppresses Development of Breast Adenocarcinomas in Transgenic HER-2/neu Mice

http://www.ingentaco...000002/00457439


''Epithalon prolonged the average and maximum lifetimes of mice by 13.5 (p<0.05) and 13.9%, respectively. The peptide prolonged the average lifetime of animals without neoplasms (by 34.2%, p<0.05). Epithalon decelerated the development of age-related disturbances in reproductive activity and suppressed the formation of neoplasms.''

[sciwalk]

can this thing be injected subcutaneously?like other peptides??in that case what would be the ideal dose??

Yes, it can, but as it can be taken sublinqual there hasn't been anyone yet trying that. The way it is packaged and its purity, one could use it for Sub-q I suppose. I had thought about it a few times, I mean, I have everything to do that as I currently am taking Melanotan II, but just haven't tried. I don't know that you could or would feel anything different at the time of dosing but I guess you would be able to reduce the amount per dose.

[sciwalk]

This was a copy of the previous post because it did not appear to work when I first submitted it. I am writing this its place because I don't have a way to delete my own posts (mods, what up with that?).

Just to update, I will no longer be, "trialing". I am just going to continue to take it for the next year. I hope by the end of a year I should have the money and find a place that I can get my telomeres checked. I have no doubt in my mind that it has an effect on me but it would be nice to have something like a telomere check to back it up.

Add to things I have found, I heal way faster now and my hair is starting to get a bit crazy. I may just have to let it grow long. I have been keeping it really short for the past several years because, well, because I could cut it short and be able to just leave it. I would not need to get it cut for 3 months but now, 2 weeks tops. (finger nails and toe nails also).

Edited by sciwalk, 12 June 2012 - 12:49 PM.

[Logic]

there seem to be other peptides other than epithalon which could have anti aging properties

Effects of Short Peptides on Lymphocyte Chromatin in Senile Subjects

Authors: Khavinson V.K.1; Lezhava T.A.1; Malinin V.V.1

Source: Bulletin of Experimental Biology and Medicine, January 2004,
vol. 137, no. 1, pp. 78-81(4)

Publisher: Kluwer Academic Publishers
< previous article | next article > View Table of Contents

Abstract:
Effects of synthetic short peptides (Vilon, Epithalon, Livagen,
Prostamax, and Cortagen) on activity of ribosome genes, parameters of
common heterochromatin melting, polymorphism of structural
heterochromatin (C segments) of chromosomes 1, 9, and 16, and
variability of facultative heterochromatin were studied in leukocytes of
subjects aged 75-88 years. All the studied peptides induced activation
of ribosome genes, decondensation of densely packed chromatin fibrils,
and release of genes repressed as a result of age-specific condensation
of the cellular euchromatin regions (deheterochromatinization of
facultative chromatin). Treatment with Epithalon, Livagen, and Prostamax
led to decondensation of chromosome 1 pericentromeric structural
chromatin, while Epithalon and Livagen treatment led to changes in
chromosome 9 as well. Hence, short peptides activate heterochromatin and
heterochromatinized regions of cell chromosomes in senile subjects.

Keywords: short peptides; aging; heterochromatinization; chromatin
activation

Language: Unknown

Document Type: Research article

DOI: 10.1023/B:BEBM.0000024393.40560.05

Affiliations: 1: St. Petersburg Institute of Bioregulation and
Gerontology, North-Western Division of Russian Academy of Medical
Sciences; Department of Genetics, Tbilisi State University., Email:
vvm@gerontology.ru

Yep; very interesting stuff and I have seen the other peptides for sale too.

Anybody have any idea what it costs to go to the St. Petersburg Institute of Bioregulation and
Gerontology for treatment?

[sciwalk]

Depends on where you live, but wouldn't that be cool?!!!
I think you would have to plan on staying for a loooooong time or return multiple times though. But, still, that would be cool, just to go there.

[zorba990]

Having taken epitalon for a while, I'm satisfied that the effect is beneficial. Moving forward, rather than taking it exogenously, I am going to try and see if I can boost it's natural synthesis through taking the constituent amino acids, in conjunction with other pineal inductance techniques like meditation. I'm going to start this when my present supply of epitalon runs out sometime in August.

Aminos sourced from purebulk are currently:

L-Alanine 250g $9.25
L-Glutamine (converts to glutamic acid in the brain) 250g $21.50
L-Aspartic Acid 250g $6.25
L-Glycine Powder 250g $12.00

I'll report any subjective similarities when I've taken it for long enough.

[Logic]

Depends on where you live, but wouldn't that be cool?!!!
I think you would have to plan on staying for a loooooong time or return multiple times though. But, still, that would be cool, just to go there.

Yep; it would be! And I think one can go there as a 'patient' Sciwalk.

Quote:
Presently St. Petersburg Institute of Bioregulation and Gerontology of the North-Western Branch of the Russian Academy of Medical Sciences is the only research institution in the North-Western region of Russia, which is engaged in research on ageing, and at the same time is an active clinical diagnostic center in gerontology and geriatrics.

I suppose I should stop being lazy and contact them myself to find out.

@ Zorba990

Your plan sounds interesting as I feel a little uneasy about taking something the body should be producing itself. (Steroid effect)
Are those the amino acids reqd by the pineal gland? Links?

[zorba990]

@ Zorba990

Your plan sounds interesting as I feel a little uneasy about taking something the body should be producing itself. (Steroid effect)
Are those the amino acids reqd by the pineal gland? Links?

These are the aminos that epitalon is made from. Companies like genscript stitch them together to make the peptide. But, presumably, you own body will do the same given the right circumstances as long as competing aminos have not filled up the brain transport system. So it needs to be taken away from other amines that might compete. (You can read about this system in Colgan's Optimum Sports Nutrition). All four of epitalon's aminos should work as Alanine and glycine as unassigned and don't seem to need a transport system, and Glutamine is 'small neutral' while Glutamine/Glutamic Acid is in the 'acidic' system.

Maybe there is another co-factor needed for the 'stitching". Maybe only one amino is needed like Beta-Alanine is for Carnosine synthesis. I don't know. But all four amines are cheap and available so it seems worth a try. Also might be worth a try to try each one individually in the absence of other proteins. All this will take many months to figure out. But there it is if anyone else wants to self experiment.

Here's a starter reference:
http://sciencelinks....104A0648582.php

Edited by zorba990, 13 June 2012 - 10:57 PM.

[levianthan]

from a brief search i found the sequences of some other peptides like epithalon

cortagen:Ala-Glu-Asp-Pro

livagen: Lys-Glu-Asp-Ala

vilon: Lys-Glu

prostamax:Lys–Glu–Asp–Pro

thymogen:Glu-Trp

anyone willing to try them?? :P

Edited by levianthan, 13 June 2012 - 11:28 PM.

[Logic]

Thx Zorba990. I'll def look into finding em here.

Levainthan: I would!

The problem seems to be that South African customs takes a dim view of anyone trying to import suppliments.

[sciwalk]

Having taken epitalon for a while, I'm satisfied that the effect is beneficial. Moving forward, rather than taking it exogenously, I am going to try and see if I can boost it's natural synthesis through taking the constituent amino acids, in conjunction with other pineal inductance techniques like meditation. I'm going to start this when my present supply of epitalon runs out sometime in August.

Aminos sourced from purebulk are currently:

L-Alanine 250g $9.25
L-Glutamine (converts to glutamic acid in the brain) 250g $21.50
L-Aspartic Acid 250g $6.25
L-Glycine Powder 250g $12.00

I'll report any subjective similarities when I've taken it for long enough.

Trial and error is the root of discovery, but, in this case I think this will not help. The problem in the first place is not a lack of amino acids, the problem is the lack of production of these substances by the Pineal gland. Adding more of the amino acids won't reslove those age related issues, however, after having lengthened the telemores and improved your bodies condition over all through whatever other means, there is the hope that the Pineal gland and other body functions can restore back to a more youthful state and things like AGAG or TA-65 will no longer be needed, at least for some time.

[zorba990]

Trial and error is the root of discovery, but, in this case I think this will not help. The problem in the first place is not a lack of amino acids, the problem is the lack of production of these substances by the Pineal gland. Adding more of the amino acids won't reslove those age related issues, however, after having lengthened the telemores and improved your bodies condition over all through whatever other means, there is the hope that the Pineal gland and other body functions can restore back to a more youthful state and things like AGAG or TA-65 will no longer be needed, at least for some time.

The pituitary produces less GH as we age, but it can easily be prompted to release more using the right aminos with the right timing. I suspect the same is true of the pineal, but no one has bothered to experiment much since it was unknown how powerful the effects of other pineal secretion were (other than melatonin). In fact, since the pineal sits outside of the BBB it should be even easier to influence it ( and so you can probably discount some of what I wrote above about classes of aminos since the BBB transport doesn't come into play ).

[YRb4t]

still same study as before right? The mice only get treatment 5 days every month instead of every day. They also get that very low dose per kg of Epitalon of only 0,000004 gram per kilo. For an adult of 75 kg that is only 0,3 mg...

http://www.fasebj.or...t/22/3/659.long

((4 * 3) \ 37) * 75 = 24 mcg

Here in Ukraine sold peptides in the 100 mcg dose in one tablet (not epithalon) at the same time, in my experience they can not be used for more than 10 days, and in large doses because otherwise they strongly inhibit the thymus.

After their application is advisable to use the peptides of the thymus. It is also not advisable to use the peptides more than 1 course(10 days) in half a year in such doses (100 mcg ) as after a single use, they continue to operate up to 4 - 6 months gradually reducing its influence.

In addition epithalon much more efficient, including the average life expectancy. But these studies were not published in English

For example:

http://gerontology-e...20f4f1d9c0.html

Effects of synthetic peptides and Vilon epithalon on life expectancy and correlates of biological age in female CBA mice were studied in parallel in comparison with the action of melatonin (Anisimov et al., 2001a, 2001b). Experimental animals with the age of six months during the entire subsequent life courses for 5 consecutive days per month did subcutaneous injection Vilon epithalon or a single dose of 0.1 mcg per animal. Animals of the control group in the same way received injections of 0.1 ml of 0.9% isotonic solution of NaCl. An additional group of animals on the same lines were injected with water, melatonin (20 mg / l). The animals observed until their natural death.
---
Average life: control 685, melatonin 722, epithalon 721
The last 10%: control 737, melatonin 793, epithalon 842
The maximum life: control 740, melatonin 867, epithalon 1053

Month for a mouse is approximately 2 - 3 years for a person


Sorry for bad English (translate.google.com)

Edited by YRb4t, 23 June 2012 - 11:06 AM.

[AdamI]

Didn't get what you mesnt, soo AGAG one should avoid taking more than 100 mg in a 6 month period? Or was that some other peptide?
Since AGAG exist naturaly in the body it sounds strange one can developed resistance or something

[YRb4t]

Didn't get what you mesnt, soo AGAG one should avoid taking more than 100 mg in a 6 month period? Or was that some other peptide?
Since AGAG exist naturaly in the body it sounds strange one can developed resistance or something

Judging by the Russian research (not Khavinson), one of the main function of the thymus is the neutralization of antigenic peptides.
There is also a study from the Khavinson that show a possible negative effect of peptides on the thymus. The point here at the doses and the degree of purification.
Yes, they are present in the body but not in such high doses, but much much smaller. In addition to the influence of a very strong and powerful it is connected with a direct effect on the genes.
Therefore, compliance with the appropriate dose may be very important.
A high dose of peptide as well as their poor cleaning can have a negative effect on the thymus.
It is important to order the peptides with the highest cleaning.

There are other dangers of peptides in high doses. Russian scientists involved in these peptides, are peptides found that including affecting stocks of stem cells.
Wasteful use of peptides able to spend this reserve.
In my opinion, in those studies in which epithalon no significant prolongation of life is connected with its negative effect on the thymus. With the simultaneous use of thymic peptides, many research results from epithalon would be more effective.

I think from my own experience of the peptides that they should use the following scheme:
1. Use no more than 100 micrograms per day (not milligrams!).
2. When used in such doses (100 micrograms), the result comes very fast. Therefore, the use of high doses may be justified.
3. The course at a dosage of 100 micrograms should be no more than 10 days. Only under such conditions, the thymus is suffering the least.
4. After the application rate of 100 micrograms per day for no more than 10 days required the use of thymus peptides from 3 to 10 days, for example Timogen. This applies to all peptides.
5. Peptides Use no more than 2-3 courses per year.
6. The older the better use of peptides, the sooner they apply the worse. It is recommended to use them starting at age 40.
7. When applicable in smaller doses can elongate the length of the course and the use of thymic peptides becomes less important.

As for the peptides of the thymus, Vilon bad effect on the thymus, it is best affects of the thymus, extract thymus Timalin, or any of its counterparts, the extracts of the thymus.

Sorry for bad English (translate.google.com)

Edited by YRb4t, 23 June 2012 - 04:31 PM.

[AdamI]

Soo what negative effect does these studies say can happen if one take AGAG over a longer period and high doses?
That one just get some kind of immune from it? If soo, it's hardly something that would affect a person particularly much anyway

[platypus]

The pituitary produces less GH as we age, but it can easily be prompted to release more using the right aminos with the right timing.

Is that really true with oral amino-acids? I thought one needed to do high doses of intravenous to get a real effect? BTW Ageforce sells HGH in a transdermal patch.

[zorba990]

The pituitary produces less GH as we age, but it can easily be prompted to release more using the right aminos with the right timing.

Is that really true with oral amino-acids? I thought one needed to do high doses of intravenous to get a real effect? BTW Ageforce sells HGH in a transdermal patch.

Yes. Check Colgan's Optimum Sports Nutrition for references. I wouldn't use any of the HGH products directly. Cheaper and easier to mix your own from somewhere like pure bulk. Timing is everything as taking with other proteins can negate the effect.

There are many cr*p supplement products out there. In particular, ignorance of using the best ammonia scavengers (see Colgan on this).

[YRb4t]

Soo what negative effect does these studies say can happen if one take AGAG over a longer period and high doses?
That one just get some kind of immune from it? If soo, it's hardly something that would affect a person particularly much anyway

Studies that show any negative impact epithalon in large doses and prolonged use, I could not find.
Moreover on the basis of one study Khavinson have reason not to worry about the negative effect on the thymus epithalon.
I have about this study:
http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/12096446
Here it is in Russian:
http://www.medline.r...om3/art41.phtml
From this it follows that the culture of rat tissues as well as other epithalon Artificial peptides not only worsened the impact on the thymus cells of young rats aged 1 and 21 days but improved somewhat.
http://www.medline.r...g/t79pic1-1.gif
http://www.medline.r...g/t79pic3-1.gif
However, the thymus tissue of older animals aged 24 months epithalon as well as other artificial peptides did not have any improvements but did not provide any deterioration except peptide Vilon. Have a negative effect on the thymus:
http://www.medline.r...g/t79pic6-1.gif
However, it should be noted that this study was conducted in vitro, from my own experience I have used many different artificial peptides all of which are bad for the thymus. In addition, this study was conducted on animals and not humans.
We see a negative effect on the thymus peptide Vilon but peptide experiments Vilon prolongs life. The reason is
that the body responsible for the immune system and various organs of the peptide Vilon good for the spleen, which is responsible for immunity.
That is why there are reasons not to worry because the pineal gland is also responsible for the immune system (immune system regulates the whole body) and the possible negative effects on the thymus may be compensated.
But there are worries for example, in case we apply the peptides with impurities. So for example from the same study the use of extracts of (a suspension of peptide) inhibited thymus, all extracts except the extract of the thymus. Extracts of different impurity content.
http://www.medline.r...g/t79pic5-1.gif

Note also that a strong therapeutic effect of the peptides, they are able to quickly heal a sick body to which they apply. Compare with the therapeutic action of peptides can be applied only to stem cells

Sorry for bad English (translate.google.com)

Edited by YRb4t, 24 June 2012 - 05:37 AM.

[Logic]

I got a reply from St.Petersburg Institute of
Bioregulation and Gerontology to my question about getting treatment there:

Thank you for your message and the interest displayed to the bioregulation therapy developed at the Saint Petersburg Institute of Bioregulation and Gerontology.

We make a peptide based programme of treatment (prevention, correction) on the basis of a screening diagnosis which takes about 4 hours and includes differentt blood tests and examination by a therapist, cardiologist, urologist, neurologist, Ultrasonic specialist, ophthalmologist and other doctors if necessary.

The Consilium of doctors discusses the medical case and develops an individual programme of treatment (injections and capsules) with respect to priorities.

Diagnosis and treatment costs from 2 to 3 thousand US dollars.

Moreover, we can offer a genetic passport (molecular genetic analysis) which shows a predisposition to various diseases (infarction, stroke, Alzheimer disease, cancers, etc.). This knowledge allows to prescribe a bioregulation therapy to supress corresponding genes expression, hence the disease.

Hope i answered you questions.
Kind regards,
Olga Mikhailova

-----------------------------
Olga Mikhailova, Ph.D.
Executive Director
St.Petersburg Institute of
Bioregulation and Gerontology
Academic Secretary of the Gerontological
Society of the Russian Academy of Sciences
3, Dynamo Pr., 197110, St.Petersburg, Russia
Phone/fax: +7 (812) 235-18-32
Mobile: +7(921)936-68-91



Im gonna ask how long one would have to stay in St. Petersburg and what the genetic passport costs and how long that takes.
Any other questions you would like answered before I reply?

[tintinet]

How much is continuing therapy, after a visit, per year? Are return visits required for therapy?

[sciwalk]

I have had something interesting happen to me while I was actually off AGAG this past weekend. Ahhh, rather then post it again, I will give a link to my subject on the other site. http://banontime.com...c.php?f=21&t=90

Russia sure seems a lot more open to alternative therapies and treatments then the "Western" countries.

[zorba990]

I have had something interesting happen to me while I was actually off AGAG this past weekend. Ahhh, rather then post it again, I will give a link to my subject on the other site. http://banontime.com...c.php?f=21&t=90

Russia sure seems a lot more open to alternative therapies and treatments then the "Western" countries.

That actually doesn't sound good -- as it sounds more like a dependency has developed.

[sciwalk]

Lets see, before AGAG, sick most every time my kids are sick. On AGAG, not. Back off AGAG, sick when my kids get sick. Yup, just like a dependency! ????