1755 replies to this topic

[AdamI]

Does Astragaloside IV really have those effects? I thought it wasn't proven...
AGAG has on the other hand proven that the Hayflick limit can be breached, soo it does something to the telomeres to last longer.

[mikey]

The data showed that at low concentration, γ-tocotrienol increased the number of viable cell. At γ-tocotrienol concentration of 80 µM the number of cell viable is maximum for young fibroblasts and 40 µM for middle and old fibroblasts. However, high concentration of γ-tocotrienol is cytotoxic.

Well, this is just the usual U-shaped curve. This paper basically says γ-tocotrienol is good for you at reasonable doses, and bad at a massive overdose. When they say "high concentration", they really mean it, like taking tens of grams orally.

Yes. Tocotrienols may be safer than mother's milk, which kills more than 100 babies a year from exposure to drugs in the milk, according to the Centers for Poison Control's annual reports.
https://aapcc.s3.ama...nual_Report.pdf

I find no recorded deaths attributed to tocotrienols and haven't heard reports of negative side-effects from taking them.

[PWAIN]

James, anywhere around 1mg to 4mg seems to be the go. I think it is around 4 drops per mg. The bottle that Hugo supplies has the levels marked. I added mint absinth to it and it dissolved after at first retaining a milky gritty texture. I thought it wasn't going to dissolve but then it just came good and was crystal clear (with a green tint from the mint colouring). The mint flavour seems to work for me because it masks out any other flavour and alerts me to the dose being applied.

[pleb]

I'm also taking it but i'm not sure if a study has been done on the correct amount for a person to take,
the Khavinson tests were done on cells in a lab and took foetus cells which had done 10 hayflick passages, treatment with Epitalon started at 44 passages, reversing the telomere shorting back from 44 to the length they were at 10,in a short time period, but the report was short on any other details regarding amounts,

Edited by pleb, 18 January 2013 - 03:46 PM.

[hav]

OK, I figured out how to (supposedly) buy AGAG (although I haven't yet purchased it), and I gather that if one doesn't like using needles, sublingual is the way to go - and that after openning a vial I will want to mix it with 95% sterile water, 5% ethanol solution, keeping track of how many mg per mL. I already have a magnetic stirrer. Is that necessary, or does this stuff readily dissolve?

Could anybody suggest a dosage of AGAG roughly equivalent to 40 mg Astragaloside IV in terms of some effect or another (e.g. telomerase activation, longevity increase, etc)?

Failing that, what would be a good serving size of AGAG for a longevity experiment on a 100 kg male primate?

Failing that, what would be a good serving size of AGAG for a longevity experiment on a 1 kg rat? (I'm familiar with non-linear scaling, so I would guess the 100 kg ape should get about 30 times the dose as a 1 kg rat.)

Not sure about the rat scaling but I started out last year with a 3mg/dose of Epithalon and later raised it to 5mg which is what I'm doing now. It dissolves quite rapidly in distilled water so a magnetic stirrer is not required. And wouldn't be very practical unless you were mixing a large number of doses which wouldn't keep very well unless they were for a group of subjects. What I do for my wife and I is mix 50 mg of Epithalon with 36 drips of distilled water then add 4 drops of 80 proof vodka. That yields a daily dose of 2 drops for each of us under the tongue for 5 days equal to 5 mg/day. Which we repeat every other week. I don't take it with AS4, however. I use an Astragalus extract standardized to 70% polysaccharides: two 500mg capsules twice a day (2 grams/day) on the same bi-weekly schedule with the Epithalon. If you read through the Astragalus thread one of the posters there, Greenpower, reported better telomere length test results for himself with the 70% extract than with AS4. I used to mix AS4 with the extract but have since dropped AS4 all together based on his results.

Howard

[James Phillip Turpin]

Interesting. When I read the first patent that lead to TA-65, I got the impression that it was an extract, and that although active ingredients might be identified, fractionation did not necessarily improve effectiveness. I am somewhat relieved to hear that simple extraction (rather than fractionation) is still the best way to go. I will likely switch to a full spectrum standardized astragalus extract, or even make my own from bulk herbs, after I finish what I have. My only concern would be that that the marketable molecules might be removed throgh fractionation if its not labelled full spectrum.

And thank you all for the dosage range information. That is quite valuable to know.

[sciwalk]

OK, I figured out how to (supposedly) buy AGAG (although I haven't yet purchased it), and I gather that if one doesn't like using needles, sublingual is the way to go - and that after openning a vial I will want to mix it with 95% sterile water, 5% ethanol solution, keeping track of how many mg per mL. I already have a magnetic stirrer. Is that necessary, or does this stuff readily dissolve?

Could anybody suggest a dosage of AGAG roughly equivalent to 40 mg Astragaloside IV in terms of some effect or another (e.g. telomerase activation, longevity increase, etc)?

Failing that, what would be a good serving size of AGAG for a longevity experiment on a 100 kg male primate?

Failing that, what would be a good serving size of AGAG for a longevity experiment on a 1 kg rat? (I'm familiar with non-linear scaling, so I would guess the 100 kg ape should get about 30 times the dose as a 1 kg rat.)


Thanks ahead of time for your help.

With what I have seen in reports so far, if you are 35 or under, 1mg a day is fine. If you are 45 to 35, 2mg, 45 and up - 3mg. But keep in mind that as you benefit your requirement will continue to go down. I am 51 in years now but after more then a year on AGAG I only need 1mg a day now and it seems I may be ready to decrease that again soon.

By the way, just a heads up folks, I no longer am personally handling sales of the AGAG. You now need to go through Biotrends directly and also let you know that it seems there will be a few changes.

1. The contact email for sales for them is sales@biotrendshk.com
2. They have not listed it yet so you need to let them know what you are after, "Epitalon", that is the name by which they will sell it.
3. They are going to sell it in single vials (50mg), no 100mg MOQ like I needed to do.
4. They can send through regular mail, takes longer but is much cheaper if someone wants to go that route.
5. In about 2 weeks they will stop the 4 for 3 vial offer.

Tad bit of update. Things are going great for me. I will continue taking the AGAG (Epitalon) through this whole year, it just helps me too much for me to consider going off, at least in the near future.

I finally tried some c60oo, made me feel like I was getting the flu and my joints hurt. I think I will let that one go.

Back in the gym again after nearly a month off. Feels great, have very little loss in strength, did not gain weight and was able to start bumping up weights right away. Feels great to be back in the gym, it is such a testosterone rush.

Hope everyone had a great New Years. We are just gearing up, over hear, for the Chinese New Year, that is always a hoot!

[James Phillip Turpin]

How much C60oo did you take? I tried olive oil alone at the half cup (118 mL) dose, to see if that would be a problem, and I eventually felt quite sick about 1.5 days later. Based on my single anecdotal experience, that amount of olive oil interacts with other foods, giving unpredictable side effects for subjects with a diverse diet. I believe it was the addition of pepperchinis that got me. I felt a little odd immedeiately after, but couldn't decided whether it was good or bad at first. I definitely would keep C60oo at smaller doses, even as low as 1 mL, although repeated ad lib, but mainly because of the olive oil being a bit uncomfortable at the doses given the rats, if scaled linearly. My experience with C60oo has been entirely positive, except for some unexpected social consequences related to changed behavior (i.e. more exercise). My girl friend didn't believe I was out jogging that long.
;-)

[Logic]

By the way, just a heads up folks, I no longer am personally handling sales of the AGAG. You now need to go through Biotrends directly and also let you know that it seems there will be a few changes.

1. The contact email for sales for them is sales@biotrendshk.com
2. They have not listed it yet so you need to let them know what you are after, "Epitalon", that is the name by which they will sell it.
3. They are going to sell it in single vials (50mg), no 100mg MOQ like I needed to do.
4. They can send through regular mail, takes longer but is much cheaper if someone wants to go that route.
5. In about 2 weeks they will stop the 4 for 3 vial offer.

Sorry to hear this Sciwalk; it was good doing buz with you and having you keep an eye on quality etc.

So the vails will be different. Will they be as easy to mix/use as yours?
Does their regular mail have tracking #s? This is important with the New South Africa''s penchant for losing and tossing away packages.

I would not give up on C60oo so fast: If I remember correctly; similar symptoms in others were short lived with overall improvements soon after.

[James Phillip Turpin]

I've had the problem with nerve tonics that they will fix the pain sensors before they fix the other problems that are causing the pain. That can give the impression that its causing pain ... which of course it is, because it fixes the pain sensor. Since C60 makes improves cognitive function of old rats, its is almost certainly a nerve tonic. Perhaps we ought to expect it to have short term, short lived side effects.

[sciwalk]

How much C60oo did you take? I tried olive oil alone at the half cup (118 mL) dose, to see if that would be a problem, and I eventually felt quite sick about 1.5 days later. Based on my single anecdotal experience, that amount of olive oil interacts with other foods, giving unpredictable side effects for subjects with a diverse diet. I believe it was the addition of pepperchinis that got me. I felt a little odd immedeiately after, but couldn't decided whether it was good or bad at first. I definitely would keep C60oo at smaller doses, even as low as 1 mL, although repeated ad lib, but mainly because of the olive oil being a bit uncomfortable at the doses given the rats, if scaled linearly. My experience with C60oo has been entirely positive, except for some unexpected social consequences related to changed behavior (i.e. more exercise). My girl friend didn't believe I was out jogging that long.
;-)

I take far more Olive Oil then that in my general diet every day. Olive Oil and I have a bit of a love affair, I cannot get enough of it. I use it for everything, even as a kind of butter on bread. I use it for salads, stir fry, just about all cooking I do.
I will try again and even if the symptoms return, I will give it some time, but, if it lasts more then a few days, I will stop again. It just reminds me of other things I have taken in the past that would have the same kind of effects. I could even have that happen taking something that I had taken before so started to do some checking and found that the ones that made me feel that way had a lot of junk in it. Maybe the c60oo I got is not pure enough or maybe my body just does not like it, creates a bit of an allergic reaction to it? We will see.
I tried to do reverse HPLC on some other c60oo, for someone else actually, and it would not work, or at least that is what appeared to be the case. We have been able to successfully do that on raw material but not after mixed with the Olive Oil. :S

Don't worry, I still have my eye on the AGAG, personally. It is just that the corp. has decided to do the sales directly and will probably be partnering with others in the near future.
The packaging is still relatively the same, different artwork. And, actually, the box has some directions on it now.
The shipping can still be the same like before, the Hong Kong Express with tracking, it is just that they are also offering to ship via regular mail if someone wants to lower that cost.

[Logic]

Don't worry, I still have my eye on the AGAG, personally. It is just that the corp. has decided to do the sales directly and will probably be partnering with others in the near future.
The packaging is still relatively the same, different artwork. And, actually, the box has some directions on it now.
The shipping can still be the same like before, the Hong Kong Express with tracking, it is just that they are also offering to ship via regular mail if someone wants to lower that cost.

I would be very interested in becoming the local supplier/agent/partner? for Biotrends??

Thx for the info and hope C60oo works for you. They synergise very nicely for me.

[hav]

The data showed that at low concentration, γ-tocotrienol increased the number of viable cell. At γ-tocotrienol concentration of 80 µM the number of cell viable is maximum for young fibroblasts and 40 µM for middle and old fibroblasts. However, high concentration of γ-tocotrienol is cytotoxic.

Well, this is just the usual U-shaped curve. This paper basically says γ-tocotrienol is good for you at reasonable doses, and bad at a massive overdose. When they say "high concentration", they really mean it, like taking tens of grams orally.

Yes. Tocotrienols may be safer than mother's milk, which kills more than 100 babies a year from exposure to drugs in the milk, according to the Centers for Poison Control's annual reports.
https://aapcc.s3.ama...nual_Report.pdf

I find no recorded deaths attributed to tocotrienols and haven't heard reports of negative side-effects from taking them.

Still thinking about this. It occurs to me that there might be some advantage to the 80 uM concentration effects if they could be achieved, perhaps even if only in parts of the digestive tract. At that point the toxicity plot shows shows an enhancement to cell growth for young and middle aged cells while 50% of older cells are being killed off... which suggests a selective toxicity to cells with critically short telomeres. That might be useful if you activate telomerase but worry you might be saving cells with critically short telomeres that might already be damaged. I also expect the effect would have the most positive impact on telomere assays that focus on the ratio of cells with critically short telomeres.

Howard

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[NanoDoom]

Greetings & salutations to the people pioneering AGAG.

I have read this thread with great interest.
I definitely would love to get my hands on some AGAG.

My understanding is that sciwalk does not sell AGAG anymore.

My budget is tight. Where would I go to obtain the cheapest product (which still is trustworthy...) ?
Would anybody in Europe happen to be selling this stuff yet?


Thanks.

Oh before I forget:
Has anyone tried mixing AGAG with DMSO for better absorption?
Seems it would be a better vehicle (if it doesn't destroy the peptide, that is)

[AdamI]

I think it would destroy the peptide. Sciwalk doesn't sell it but that is only because those that produce it now sells it instead.
I think you can find the email to order on he's website appliedyouth.com. Check the fourms section if u don't find it on the main page right away...

[sciwalk]

Greetings & salutations to the people pioneering AGAG.

I have read this thread with great interest.
I definitely would love to get my hands on some AGAG.

My understanding is that sciwalk does not sell AGAG anymore.

My budget is tight. Where would I go to obtain the cheapest product (which still is trustworthy...) ?
Would anybody in Europe happen to be selling this stuff yet?


Thanks.

Oh before I forget:
Has anyone tried mixing AGAG with DMSO for better absorption?
Seems it would be a better vehicle (if it doesn't destroy the peptide, that is)

No need for DMSO. It will not destroy the peptide but it is not just a peptide, it is a tetrapeptide. It is only a 4 amino acid chain and can absorb through the skin nearly as easy as DMSO.

Biotrends has started to sell Epitalon to a few different Labs (suppliers) but it only sells in very large quantities and the Labs are then having to package, store, advertise, ect... ect..., so what I have seen so far is an increase over my original pricing. But, please remember, I was selling it basically at cost and actually loosing money by packaging it, so, don't expect anyone to have it at my old pricing unless you are willing to buy in large bulk, like 20 grams bottles.

Now that I am here, might as well update. I am still taking Epitalon, 1.5mg a day, and still feeling great.
I can say that I personally don't think I am getting any younger looking, a few of my friends disagree they think I am, but, no matter, I feel great and that is what really counts for me (I am not looking to go hit the singles bars).
Lately, I have been really really busy and only able to hit the gym once or twice a week. There was one stretch that I was out of the gym for 3 weeks and thought I was going to die when I got back to exercise. But, completely the opposite, it was like I never left. I had not lost any energy, lifting capability or endurance. In fact, I was able to bump my weights a bit and was able to get more reps in on my 1 min speed reps.
I will continue through out the summer and again, stop taking it around Sept.
I am going to go in for a full physical and blood work at the end of the month. I will let you know what kind of results I see.

[NanoDoom]

Biotrends has started to sell Epitalon to a few different Labs (suppliers) but it only sells in very large quantities and the Labs are then having to package, store, advertise, ect... ect..., so what I have seen so far is an increase over my original pricing. But, please remember, I was selling it basically at cost and actually loosing money by packaging it, so, don't expect anyone to have it at my old pricing unless you are willing to buy in large bulk, like 20 grams bottles.

This sounds discouraging.

So, basically, I'd need to purchase a large quantity to even get my hands on AGAG currently?
I do not have the resources for this at all, sadly.

Or are you saying other vendors are selling AGAG in smaller quantities, where mortals like myself could purchase a gram or so?
If yes, could you possibly point me to such a vendor?
(If you don't want to do it here on the forum, maybe we can work it out via PM?)

Thanks.

[pleb]

i made a search after Hugo gave me details recently and came up with this i don't know if any other company are producing or selling it




Pure Epitalon™ (A,G,A,G), exclusively from BioLuma Research™
Four (4) units (bottles) of 100% safe and non-toxic food-grade Epitalon (Epithalon) A,G,A,G (Ala-Glu-Asp-Gly), 50mg ea. (200 mg total), freeze dried (powdered) protein peptide (>98% purity). May contain mannatol as a freeze drying agent and preservative. Manufactured under strict SFDA and (GMP) guidelines. Ships with care from Hong Kong (additional $25 international flat rate fee) via Express shipping (3-7 days). Tracking number will be sent to your email at the time of shipping.
For your independent and private research, our product is produced with highest integrity standards and is of the finest quality available in the world. Includes complete instructions for use and mixing. Each reconstituted drop contains ~.25mg of the highly coveted amino acid chain Ala-Glu-Asp-Gly.
This newly discovered rare and desirable protein peptide is costly and time consuming to produce. It is manufactured in small quantities and difficult to keep in stock. Current maximum availability is limited to one hundred (100) units (bottles) per month per country. If you wish to be guaranteed a slot for monthly auto-ship, please contact us to be added to the monthly reorder list, which receives 1st priority. When maximum availability for your country has been reached, if you fail to opt-in for auto-ship, the next individual in line will take your position. We will have to move you to the bottom of the list where you'll have to wait for the next available open slot.
Maximum order of four (4) units (bottles) per month when on auto-ship. Auto-ship orders receive a 10% discount and are not applied until the second consecutive monthly order.
BioLuma Research™: Life... Brighter. 699 US dollars plus 25 US shipping for 4 vials ,



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[NanoDoom]

i made a search after Hugo gave me details recently and came up with this i don't know if any other company are producing or selling it




Pure Epitalon™ (A,G,A,G), exclusively from BioLuma Research™
Four (4) units (bottles) of 100% safe and non-toxic food-grade Epitalon (Epithalon) A,G,A,G (Ala-Glu-Asp-Gly), 50mg ea. (200 mg total), freeze dried (powdered) protein peptide (>98% purity). May contain mannatol as a freeze drying agent and preservative. Manufactured under strict SFDA and (GMP) guidelines. Ships with care from Hong Kong (additional $25 international flat rate fee) via Express shipping (3-7 days). Tracking number will be sent to your email at the time of shipping.
For your independent and private research, our product is produced with highest integrity standards and is of the finest quality available in the world. Includes complete instructions for use and mixing. Each reconstituted drop contains ~.25mg of the highly coveted amino acid chain Ala-Glu-Asp-Gly.
This newly discovered rare and desirable protein peptide is costly and time consuming to produce. It is manufactured in small quantities and difficult to keep in stock. Current maximum availability is limited to one hundred (100) units (bottles) per month per country. If you wish to be guaranteed a slot for monthly auto-ship, please contact us to be added to the monthly reorder list, which receives 1st priority. When maximum availability for your country has been reached, if you fail to opt-in for auto-ship, the next individual in line will take your position. We will have to move you to the bottom of the list where you'll have to wait for the next available open slot.
Maximum order of four (4) units (bottles) per month when on auto-ship. Auto-ship orders receive a 10% discount and are not applied until the second consecutive monthly order.
BioLuma Research™: Life... Brighter. 699 US dollars plus 25 US shipping for 4 vials ,



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$699 for 200mg?
Wow... I guess this product is an exclusive for the Bill Gates of this world.

Thanks for posting, anyway.

[Freebytes]

Have there been any reports so far from the people that have tested it? Last time I asked, people told me to wait. It has been quite a long time (6 months to a year), and we still have not heard much. Any input on side effects, results, etc.?

[tintinet]

Have there been any reports so far from the people that have tested it? Last time I asked, people told me to wait. It has been quite a long time (6 months to a year), and we still have not heard much. Any input on side effects, results, etc.?

I'm not officially testing it, AFAIK, but I've taken it for a few months, off and on (when I remember to!). All I've noticed is vivid dreaming.

[Freebytes]

Tintinet, where would you recommend I search to find some? I am interested in trying it out.

[pleb]

freebytes look about 3 or 4 posts up as far as i know that's the only place that sells it at the moment,
i took it for the in Vitro Telomere lengthening as mentioned in Prof Khavinsons research, and another article by him
indicating it de-calcified the pineal gland in Chickens,

but i cannot find any research regarding in vivo testing on humans proving that it works on Telomere lengthening other than with cells in the lab,

and as it says the price from the company in the above post is now 3-1/2 to 4 times the price it was originally sold for, although sciwalk who originally supplied it has since said he sold it at a loss,,

i had no side effects at the amount suggested but not much effect any other way either certainly not the change in wrinkles and smoothing of the skin that sciwalk shows in his photos,

Edited by pleb, 12 April 2013 - 06:14 PM.

[Methos000]

So, essentially this stuff is currently Unobtainium? Unless I want to talk some Chinese chemical firm into manufacturing a large, very expensive order for me, or pay the incredible price I see above quoted from BioLuma Research...

Edited by Methos000, 13 April 2013 - 05:52 PM.

[pleb]

why do you say unobtainable, the company selling it and the price are on a post by me on the 9th of march.

unless you can get it manufactured for less,? I'm not buying any more because i think the price is to high, if there was proof it worked at telomere lengthening on actual human subjects then it may have been worth it
the firm manufacturing it is in Hong Kong, how the cost would compare to the rest of the mainland is any bodies guess,

Edited by pleb, 13 April 2013 - 05:59 PM.

[Methos000]

Not unobtainable in the strict sense maybe, but when you consider that each time I click on the BioLuma link i found I get a glimpse of a page with the text 'We do not ship to the USA' and then get redirected to the Wikipedia article on Bioluminescence...

The fact remains that there is no reliable retail source for this substance. If I was determined to get it at any cost, I'm sure that I could. As you say, without more evidence that actually does something worthwhile that other, cheaper supplements can't do, Epitalon will remain just a curiosity.

why do you say unobtainable, the company selling it and the price are on a post by me on the 9th of march.

unless you can get it manufactured for less,? I'm not buying any more because i think the price is to high, if there was proof it worked at telomere lengthening on actual human subjects then it may have been worth it
the firm manufacturing it is in Hong Kong, how the cost would compare to the rest of the mainland is any bodies guess,

[pleb]

Ah i didn't know they wouldn't send to the US, there are quite a few things that aren't obtainable here or illegal to sell, but we are not banned from importing them for our own use,

[Methos000]

Maybe we could convince sciwalk to get back in the business.

[pleb]

Sciwalk already owns part of the company that manufacture it,

the packaging and posting in small amounts has been passed on to the company that is mentioned, that's when the price went up,

[Methos000]

RevGenetics could have the exclusive retail business for this product in the US if they were interested.