1755 replies to this topic

[smithx]

Can you please review the conditions of this group order?

- What is the price per gram?
- How many grams are on order so far?
- Will the price per gram decrease if more people add to the order?
- Is the minimum order quantity 1 gram?
- Will the orders be shipped by GenScript or will you receive them from GenScript and then ship them to group buy participants?

Thanks for the information and clarifications!

[Lister]

Thanks for working it out guys.

[grass]

Long time lurker, first time poster.

Have been doing a lot of reading here about AGAG peptide and am interested in learning more about it and trying some.

From my reading here, I believe I understand the pricing and shipping details and am ready to give it a go.

I will PM you Dreamer.

[Dreamer]

The price is $253/gram aliquoted to 100mg plus shipping and PayPal charges and will be shipped by GS from NJ USA, as has been previously posted here. I doubt that the price will change at this point since we have already agreed on terms and issued a purchase order which they have accepted and put into production. It is just that production is at a stage that we can add some if we do it by Monday morning according to GS.

If you are interested in getting some peptide, please PM me with your name, shipping address and email address along with quantity wanted.

[smithx]

Thanks for your reply Dreamer. Could you please reply to my other questions as well?

- How many grams are on order so far?
- Is the minimum order quantity 1 gram?
- Will the orders be shipped by GenScript or will you receive them from GenScript and then ship them to group buy participants?

And one more question:
- What is the percent purity which Genscript is agreeing to produce for this order?

Thanks again.

Edited by smithx, 05 July 2013 - 09:13 AM.

[Dreamer]

Please review past posts including my llast one as all the answers are there.

[smithx]

Dreamer, I looked through the posts and found that apparently orders will be shipped by Genscript directly to participants. Can you confirm this?

You state the purity will be >98%. Are they committing to 98% purity for the order? Will a Certificate of Analysis be sent by them with each order?

Thanks.

Edited by smithx, 05 July 2013 - 09:18 PM.

[Dreamer]

You sound like an attorney, smithx.

Is your interest due to your desire to join the group order or something else? Please clarify.

As you have "discovered" from my previous posts, GS will ship directly to each individual from their NJ facility and the peptide specification is >98% purity.

Since I already posted that GS will ship directly from their NJ facility, if I say it again, does that "confirm" it and make it better?

Since I already stated that they quoted purity at >98%, if I say it again, does that confirm that they have committed to that specification and make it better?

I just want to understand what you are looking for.

Edited by Dreamer, 06 July 2013 - 12:02 AM.

[smithx]

I am interested in joining a group buy, and as you will see if you look back through the thread, I am the person who initially contacted GenScript, got pricing, and suggested a group buy using their product (a year or more ago).

I just want to make sure that if I do join this particular group buy that I get what I would hope to get!

So far you've answered all the questions except this one: "Will a Certificate of Analysis be sent by them with each order?"

I have one other question: Are you willing to post the invoice from GenScript showing the actual amount you are paying them, so that we can verify you are not making a profit from this group buy? You can blank out your name/address for privacy purposes if you're willing to post it.

Thanks again.

Edited by smithx, 06 July 2013 - 10:45 PM.

[hav]

So far you've answered all the questions except this one: "Will a Certificate of Analysis be sent by them with each order?"

Hi, Smithx. Genscript attaches a little sticker on each vial that lists the COA results for that specific batch. Here's the one from my post following my first order that shows what it looks like. The one from Jan 2013 looked the same except that the purity was 98.2% for that batch.

Thanks to all you guys, btw, for doing this. Although I'm not participating in this buy because my current supply will take me into next year, my only suggestion for the future is that you consider using the forums and PMs exclusively for communication instead of e-mail. I think it's what this forum is best at and would be more effective than e-mail in keeping everyone in the loop in an open and transparent manner. It would also be better for me, personally, since my e-mail url is public on my commercial web site and used for business purposes... sometimes it takes a while to sift personal stuff out of all the commercial spam mail.

Howard

[smithx]

I find it somewhat disturbing that Dreamer never responded regarding whether he would be willing to post his invoice so that we can verify he isn't making a profit off this group buy.

It does seem as though he came along, took control of it from daouda, represented that people would pay GenScript directly, and then without any notification just got everyone to pay him directly.

He may very well have organized this out of an altruistic motivation, or just so he could get a lower price on his order along with everyone else. But by not posting the invoice and being high-handed about the whole thing, he invites suspicion.

[zen]

I find it somewhat disturbing that Dreamer never responded regarding whether he would be willing to post his invoice so that we can verify he isn't making a profit off this group buy.

Just FYI, Dreamer shared the quotation document he received from GenScript with everyone involved via email. He never promised that he will be posting these documents on the public forum so I do not see any problem here.

[poonja]

I, for one, would not be disturbed if someone made a reasonable return for taking the time and trouble to help me.

[solarfingers]

I find it somewhat disturbing that Dreamer never responded regarding whether he would be willing to post his invoice so that we can verify he isn't making a profit off this group buy.

It does seem as though he came along, took control of it from daouda, represented that people would pay GenScript directly, and then without any notification just got everyone to pay him directly.

He may very well have organized this out of an altruistic motivation, or just so he could get a lower price on his order along with everyone else. But by not posting the invoice and being high-handed about the whole thing, he invites suspicion.

If you are that concerned that Dreamer might get one over on you, you could just go and order it directly from Genscript yourself... If I were Dreamer I would certainly be turned off by doing this kind of thing again being that so many people are bugging him... Nobody is twisting anyone's arm to get into a group buy.

Thank you Dreamer.

[smithx]

That's good. I would have participated in the group buy if he'd responded to my request asking for it, but instead he ignored it.

I'm glad he at least did that for the people who participated before asking.

And no, I don't mind the idea of someone making a profit, as long as they state that's what they're doing.

I find it somewhat disturbing that Dreamer never responded regarding whether he would be willing to post his invoice so that we can verify he isn't making a profit off this group buy.

Just FYI, Dreamer shared the quotation document he received from GenScript with everyone involved via email. He never promised that he will be posting these documents on the public forum so I do not see any problem here.

[1todd960]

I find it somewhat disturbing that Dreamer never responded regarding whether he would be willing to post his invoice so that we can verify he isn't making a profit off this group buy.

Just FYI, Dreamer shared the quotation document he received from GenScript with everyone involved via email. He never promised that he will be posting these documents on the public forum so I do not see any problem here.

I must of been left out of that email notification. Bummer.

Anyway I'm just anxious to start testing the product. I found out yesterday I have nodes on my Thyroid. So it will be interesting to see if Epitalon has any effect.

Edited by 1todd960, 12 July 2013 - 02:06 PM.

[Dreamer]

You were not left out of that email notification, Todd. Check your emails of June 15.

For your thyroid, I suggest some nutritional supplements to correct the imbalances. It doesn't sound like an AGAG type of problem to me.

[solarfingers]

Does anyone live near Madison, Wisconsin?

You can also "Do It Yourself" (DItY)! We offer training and access to all of the peptide synthesizers in the facility. Create your own peptides at a reduced cost (and increased time commitment). Not recommended for researchers who plan on synthesizing less than 5 peptides in their academic career. Contact us to set up a training appointment.

University of Wisconsin Biotechnology Center

Peptide Synthesis Facility

425 Henry Mall Room 2340

Madison, WI 53706

Phone: (608) 263-9881

Fax: (608) 262-6748

http://www.biotech.w...ptidesynth/home

[solarfingers]

Dange! A DIY peptide synthesizer!

I wonder if Niner would appreciate this?

http://www.chem.uky....psyn/ASPPS.html

[niner]

Dange! A DIY peptide synthesizer!

I wonder if Niner would appreciate this?

http://www.chem.uky....psyn/ASPPS.html

Wow, my inner geek likes it. Using their price list, other than the $900 they allocated for a "100 MHz cpu", it looks like about three grand for the parts, and some significant effort to build it, so you'd need to make a lot of epitalon to pay for it. You still need to buy the reagents, one of which is a key intermediate in the synthesis of PCP, and is thus very hard to just go out and buy. You'd also need a way to purify the peptides, probably by prep-scale chromatography. More dollars for that....

It would be a lot cheaper and easier, I bet, to use traditional benchtop Merrifield (solid state) synthesis, since it's only a four-mer. This involves linking the first amino acid to the surface of a chemically reactive resin bead, then washing the beads, linking the next amino acid, washing, and continuing until you have all four. Then you cleave the peptide from the beads, and purify.

[solarfingers]

Wow, my inner geek likes it. Using their price list, other than the $900 they allocated for a "100 MHz cpu", it looks like about three grand for the parts, and some significant effort to build it, so you'd need to make a lot of epitalon to pay for it. You still need to buy the reagents, one of which is a key intermediate in the synthesis of PCP, and is thus very hard to just go out and buy. You'd also need a way to purify the peptides, probably by prep-scale chromatography. More dollars for that....

It would be a lot cheaper and easier, I bet, to use traditional benchtop Merrifield (solid state) synthesis, since it's only a four-mer. This involves linking the first amino acid to the surface of a chemically reactive resin bead, then washing the beads, linking the next amino acid, washing, and continuing until you have all four. Then you cleave the peptide from the beads, and purify.

Does the solid state method escape having to use reagents such as the key intermediate in PCP synthesis? Is the DIY method a solid phase methodology?

[mpe]

Is there any independent proof that AGAG actually causes telomere elongation ?

[niner]

Guys, I split out the discussion on thyroid cancer, biopsies, and MSM. It's a worthwhile conversation that deserves its own thread.

[solarfingers]

Is there any independent proof that AGAG actually causes telomere elongation ?

Abstract


Addition of Epithalon peptide in telomerase-negative human fetal fibroblast culture induced expression of the catalytical subunit, enzymatic activity of telomerase, and telomere elongation, which can be due to reactivation of telomerase gene in somatic cells and indicates the possibility of prolonging life span of a cell population and of the whole organism.

http://link.springer...A:1025493705728

Abstract


We previously showed that treatment of normal human diploid cells with Epithalon (Ala-Glu-Asp-Gly) induced expression of telomerase catalytic subunit, its enzymatic activity, and elongation of telomeres. Here we studied the effect of this peptide on proliferative potential of human fetal fibroblasts. Primary pulmonary fibroblasts derived from a 24-week fetus lost the proliferative potential at the 34th passage. The mean size of telomeres in these cells was appreciably lower than during early passages (passage 10). Addition of Epithalon to aging cells in culture induced elongation of telomeres to the size comparable to their length during early passages. Peptide-treated cells with elongated telomeres made 10 extra divisions (44 passages) in comparison with the control and continued dividing. Hence, Epithalon prolonged the vital cycle of normal human cells due to overcoming the Heyflick limit.

http://link.springer...038164.49947.8c

Edited by solarfingers, 15 July 2013 - 04:21 PM.

[hav]

Is there any independent proof that AGAG actually causes telomere elongation ?

I couldn't find any in vivo studies showing telomere lengthening for epithalon. But this study suggests its possible, if it triggers IL-2 like rapamycin does:

IL-2 increases human telomerase reverse transcriptase activity

These results indicate that IL-2 stimulation induces hTERT activation and that the mechanism of IL-2-induced hTERT activation involves transcriptional or posttranslational regulation through the pathway including PI3K/Akt, Hsp90, mTOR, and S6K in NK cells.

... and this study shows that epithalon in fact does that in rat brain cells, in vivo:
Synthesis of IL-2 mRNA in cells of rat hypothalamic structures after injection of short peptides

In situ hybridization on paraffin sections of the rat brain showed that synthetic peptides Vilon, Epithalon, and Cortagen modulated the expression of IL-2 gene in vivo in cells of some hypothalamic structures depending on the terms and routes of administration.

Unfortunately I don't have access to enough of the full-text, but the insinuation from the abstract and the 2 page preview is that you might have to inject it into muscles to see that effect.

Howard

[smithx]

The problem I have with the Epitalon studies is that they all come from the same lab. No other lab has replicated any of the results, as far as I know.

Is there any independent proof that AGAG actually causes telomere elongation ?

Abstract


Addition of Epithalon peptide in telomerase-negative human fetal fibroblast culture induced expression of the catalytical subunit, enzymatic activity of telomerase, and telomere elongation, which can be due to reactivation of telomerase gene in somatic cells and indicates the possibility of prolonging life span of a cell population and of the whole organism.

http://link.springer...A:1025493705728

Abstract


We previously showed that treatment of normal human diploid cells with Epithalon (Ala-Glu-Asp-Gly) induced expression of telomerase catalytic subunit, its enzymatic activity, and elongation of telomeres. Here we studied the effect of this peptide on proliferative potential of human fetal fibroblasts. Primary pulmonary fibroblasts derived from a 24-week fetus lost the proliferative potential at the 34th passage. The mean size of telomeres in these cells was appreciably lower than during early passages (passage 10). Addition of Epithalon to aging cells in culture induced elongation of telomeres to the size comparable to their length during early passages. Peptide-treated cells with elongated telomeres made 10 extra divisions (44 passages) in comparison with the control and continued dividing. Hence, Epithalon prolonged the vital cycle of normal human cells due to overcoming the Heyflick limit.

http://link.springer...038164.49947.8c

[solarfingers]

The problem I have with the Epitalon studies is that they all come from the same lab. No other lab has replicated any of the results, as far as I know.

True but what would be the point since the patent for age prevention using Epitalon would prevent anyone from profiting from such a study. Labs usually won't do testing unless there is some economic motive.

The question we should be asking, "Why the hell isn't he making mint off of his patents?"

http://www.khavinson.ru/patents

Edited by solarfingers, 15 July 2013 - 07:17 PM.

[hav]

Fwiw, I noticed a different patent covering the same 4 peptide building blocks as Epithalon in a modified order by some different folks:

Peptide-dependent upregulation of telomerase expression

CMX-2: a peptide compound having the formula [Ac] Asp Gly Glu Ala (SEQ ID NO: 14)

The examples in this patent mention a number of mouse studies with positive results but I couldn't find any of them by the author/inventors David S. Adams and/or Victor E. Shashoua in Pubmed... although I did find other studies by them out of CereMedix Research Laboratory a little west of Boston going back no more recent than 2004. I saw some old news stories about them building a factory in Scotland but nothing more recent.

And then there's this old thread which looks like deja vu all over again.

Howard

[solarfingers]

One thing that is noteworthy is that patents are not free... All those patents must have set Havinson back a few rubles. Why the cost if he had nothing to protect? Why is there no product on the market? It sounds to me like some nefarious force is holding it back... OK, I am just paranoid.

[solarfingers]

Eksp Klin Farmakol. 2006 Nov-Dec;69(6):13-6.
Comparative study of the effects of melatonin and epitalon on the
protracted memory under the shuttle labyrinth test conditions in rats
in the course of aging.
Vinogradova IA.
The influence of the chronic administration of melatonin (epiphyseal
hormone) and epitalon (a synthetic tetrapeptide increasing melatonin
production) on the learning process and the protracted memory has been
studied in LIO rats in the course of aging for 2 years under standard
illumination regime (12L :12D). The daily administration of melatonin
(Sigma, USA) with drinking water (in 10 mg/liter dose at night) in
rats beginning with the age of 4 months did not influence the learning
processes in young and adult animals but it was found to contribute to
optimization of the brain cognitive function in rats in the course of
aging, by improving the protracted memory process. Epitalon
administered in a daily dose of 0.1 microg per animal beginning with
the age of 4 months showed mnemotropic properties (decreasing the
extent of memory disorders) in old rats under conditions of the
shuttle labyrinth test. PMID:17209456