1755 replies to this topic

[Dreamer]

Sorry, no, by MSM I am referring to MainStream Medicine, which we stay away from. We don't believe they have anything to offer us in terms of health care.

And, yes, we use MSM the supplement daily, about 3 or so teaspoons each day or about 15,000 to 18,000 mg. Kinda bitter tasting, but we feel very beneficial. We generally take it with our magnesium bicarbonate water along with potassium a couple times each day. Actually, we take the mag bicarb in the evening and bicarbonate then magnesium chloride in the morning with the MSM and Potassium. Best of both worlds?

[solarfingers]

It arrived in 4 small plastic vials which were shipped in a FedexExpress envelope overnight. 50mg is a very small quantity. It looks crystalline and is clinging to the sides. I put 1ml of my boiled water in the vial and shook it up. I emptied this into a large clear plastic bottle I bought at the Dollar Tree. I put another 1ml in the vial, shook it and emptied it into the vial... The bottle says it contains Epitalon 99.1% pure. I mixed 50mg (1 vial) into 13 ml of 13.5% wine and 12 ml of water... Should be close enough and provide 25 - 2mg/ml dosages...

The water was at room temperature when I worked with it...

Edited by solarfingers, 24 July 2013 - 02:39 AM.

[Dreamer]

That sounds like it is pretty well diluted, lots of drops per mg of peptide, especially if taking sublingually, at least for me. I can only handle about 6 drops each time under my tongue and then it gets away.

How many drops per ml is that going to be?

I usually mix up a 50mg batch with about 8 ml water/alcohol.

Just curious and trying to learn.

[1todd960]

That sounds like it is pretty well diluted, lots of drops per mg of peptide, especially if taking sublingually, at least for me. I can only handle about 6 drops each time under my tongue and then it gets away.

How many drops per ml is that going to be?

I usually mix up a 50mg batch with about 8 ml water/alcohol.

Just curious and trying to learn.

I think your pretty much inline with what should work. The way I see it 50mg/3mg per day should last approx 17 days. So for me i'll put 8.5ml water/8.5ml wine for each 50mg vial. 1 ml per day dosage should be the same as 3 mg. Trying to keep the math simple and since I have 1/2 ml syringes it should be easy to measure and mark a bottle for future use. 12 drops to a ml per wiki.

Edited by 1todd960, 24 July 2013 - 05:29 AM.

[pleb]

whatever you do when your reconstituting peptides is don't shake it you should swirl it gently or just leave it over night in the fridge, shaking can destroy it,any peptide, even squirting water in the vial with a syringe can effect it it should go in gently on the side of the glass,

beside the telomere lengthening in vitro with cells Khavinson reported that Epitalon decalsified the pineal gland in vivo with chickens, ,,

[solarfingers]

That sounds like it is pretty well diluted, lots of drops per mg of peptide, especially if taking sublingually, at least for me. I can only handle about 6 drops each time under my tongue and then it gets away.

How many drops per ml is that going to be?

I usually mix up a 50mg batch with about 8 ml water/alcohol.

Just curious and trying to learn.

I counted about 21 drops per 1 ml... I'm thinking all droppers will not be the same. There is 2mg of Epitalon in each ml so I only will take 1 ml a day. I'm using a baby's medicine dropper and it is measured out in ml holding the liquid very well without dripping.

Is placing it under the tongue crucial? If so I am quite hosed. Perhaps I will have to break it into a couple of dosages.

My impression is that people are taking the higher range which is probably not necessary to get the desired effects over time. Of course if I see no improvement after the first month I may up the dosage.

Edited by solarfingers, 24 July 2013 - 10:33 AM.

[solarfingers]

whatever you do when your reconstituting peptides is don't shake it you should swirl it gently or just leave it over night in the fridge, shaking can destroy it,any peptide, even squirting water in the vial with a syringe can effect it it should go in gently on the side of the glass,

beside the telomere lengthening in vitro with cells Khavinson reported that Epitalon decalsified the pineal gland in vivo with chickens, ,,

I didn't shake it vigorously and I hope I did it no harm. That is a crucial bit of information that I wish would have been stressed earlier.

So:

1) Mix with water
2) Water should be free of bacteria (Boiling for 10 minutes is sufficient. Allow water to cool to room temperature before mixing).
3) Mix with alcohol so that there is ~7% alcohol per mixture
4) Gently swirl the peptide in solution as to not damage it
5) Put unused Epitalon in the freezer till use
6) Place mixed Epitalon in the refrigerator

I just knew my peneal gland was shriveling up... Thanks for giving me hope!

I didn't have any vivid dreams last night but boy did I wake up fresh this morning....

Edited by solarfingers, 24 July 2013 - 10:25 AM.

[pleb]

NO that's pineal gland not penal gland LOL yes the list at the end is correct i don't even bother swirling it now just put it i the fridge over night until its clear,,
add the water gently so it runs down the glass in the vial,

Edited by pleb, 24 July 2013 - 11:06 AM.

[Dreamer]

Is placing it under the tongue crucial?

For me, it is. If I get too much at a time, it seems to excape from under my tongue and then mix with saliva, even stimulating saliva so that I just end up swallowing it. It doesn't seem to be absorbed as well as when under the tongue.

So I place 6 drops under my tongue for a few minutes and it is well absorbed. Then repeat once more. That works for me. YMMV.

[pleb]

it passes through the mucus membrane
most peptides cant be taken orally as they are either to large to pass through the membrane or destroyed in the stomach and have to be injected, epitalon is small enough so no problems,

[AdamI]

I have shaked my AGAG as a madman :( And I have taken alot otaly now for a year...

[Dreamer]

it passes through the mucus membrane

Although there are plenty of mucus membranes in the mouth, I believe the best place for something to be absorbed is under the tongue which is what sublingual refers to.

[solarfingers]

NO that's pineal gland not penal gland LOL yes the list at the end is correct i don't even bother swirling it now just put it i the fridge over night until its clear,,
add the water gently so it runs down the glass in the vial,

LOL! Dange! I would elaborate but that would be too much information... What do you expect when I wake up at 3 am?

The only reason for swirling is to get all of it in solution from the vial. I didn't agitate it before it went in the refrigerator.

Edited by solarfingers, 24 July 2013 - 01:54 PM.

[solarfingers]

Is placing it under the tongue crucial?

For me, it is. If I get too much at a time, it seems to excape from under my tongue and then mix with saliva, even stimulating saliva so that I just end up swallowing it. It doesn't seem to be absorbed as well as when under the tongue.

So I place 6 drops under my tongue for a few minutes and it is well absorbed. Then repeat once more. That works for me. YMMV.

So perhaps a better ratio would be:

50 mg of Epitalon
13 drops of 13.5% AVOL wine
12 drops of water

That would yield 1 drop with 2mg and 25 dosages...

The higher the purity, the more absorption sublingually?

it passes through the mucus membrane
most peptides cant be taken orally as they are either to large to pass through the membrane or destroyed in the stomach and have to be injected, epitalon is small enough so no problems,

Is the Epitalon peptide destroyed in the stomach or does it end up in the blood stream?

[pleb]

If you swallow it is destroyed if it reaches the gut but i assume as its in your mouth its passes through the mucus membrane and into the blood stream,

[solarfingers]

If you swallow it is destroyed if it reaches the gut but i assume as its in your mouth its passes through the mucus membrane and into the blood stream,

Well this morning I held it under my tongue as long as I could but I am concerned that being so diluted that little would get into the blood stream. I wonder if swishing it around in the mouth afterwards before swallowing would allow even more to pass through the mouth's membrane...

[Dreamer]

It is my understanding from my research, that the best place for absorbtion in the mouth is the underside of the tongue and under the tongue.

I know that if it gets out from there, it seems to be mixed with saliva and even stimulate more saliva to enter the mouth and it seems to me that I have to then swallow, that it is not absorbed as when held under the tongue.

Medications that are to be taken sublingually specify "under the tongue" as far as I know.

Six drops is about the max I can hold under my tongue after I clear my mouth of any saliva then placing the drops under my tongue. It seems to be all gone in 2 to 3 minutes, nothing left. So that's what I do. YMMV.

[solarfingers]

This is interesting...

The delivery of drugs via the mucous membranes lining the oral cavity (i.e., sublingual and buccal), with consideration of both systemic delivery and local therapy, is reviewed in this paper. The structure and composition of the mucosae at different sites in the oral cavity, factors affecting mucosal permeability, penetration enhancement, selection of appropriate experimental systems for studying mucosal permeability, and formulation factors relevant to the design of systems for oral mucosal delivery are discussed. Sublingual delivery gives rapid absorption and good bioavailability for some small permeants, although this site is not well suited to sustained-delivery systems. The buccal mucosa, by comparison, is considerably less permeable, but is probably better suited to the development of sustained-delivery systems. For these reasons, the buccal mucosa may have potential for delivering some of the growing number of peptide drugs (Emphasis mine), particularly those of low molecular weight, high potency, and/or long biological half-life. Development of safe and effective penetration enhancers will further expand the utility of this route. Local delivery is a relatively poorly studied area; in general, it is governed by many of the same considerations that apply to systemic delivery.

http://www.ncbi.nlm..../pubmed/1619560

So it appears that some may actually make it through the buccai mucosa membrane. How effective this is I could not tell but anything is better than it going to the gut. My thinking is if you swish your mix/saliva inside your mouth after it waits under your tongue, you may get a little more absorption out of it before it passes to the stomach.

Edited by solarfingers, 24 July 2013 - 02:50 PM.

[Dreamer]

Thanks for the research and link.

It seems to me that the best way to ensure maximum quick delivery is under the tongue. I believe the article cited confirms that.

I will continue with what I have been doing.

thanks again for the link.

Edited by Dreamer, 24 July 2013 - 03:02 PM.

[JASOG888]

whatever you do when your reconstituting peptides is don't shake it you should swirl it gently or just leave it over night in the fridge, shaking can destroy it,any peptide, even squirting water in the vial with a syringe can effect it it should go in gently on the side of the glass,

I know that's true for hGH reconstitution, but I don't think its valid for all peptides, especially for a simple peptide like epitalon. If you have a source or link saying otherwise, I would be interested in seeing it, and would happily stand corrected

[pleb]

do i have a source or link no i have other users and manufacturers advice, look on any site selling peptides,they all say the same including sciwalk who introduced epitalon to the longecity forum

[1todd960]

Better to be safe then sorry. I'll treat these peptides as if they are the same as any other peptides.

[sciwalk]

In general you should not violently shake mixed pep-tides as it can cause some damage, especially to large chain pep-tides. This damage is far less too nil on small chains like AEDG. Regardless, there is no need to shake a vial, simply rolling it between your fingers, after adding the dis-solvent, is enough. But don't fret, having shaken the AEDG will not have likely caused much, if any, damage to the pep-tide.

[qwestor]

for those who are familiar comfortable practiced in sub-Q injecting of peptides are there any bars or downsides to doing likewise w epitalon

if so... what would they be

if not...what would b the preparatory diluents n volumes n protocols

[blood]

Anyone measuring their % short telomeres prior to commencing epitalon?

[poonja]

Yes

Yes. I took a sample prior to beginning research with AGAG. Will test again after 6 mths.

Yes. I took a sample prior to beginning research with AGAG. Will test again after 6 mths.

[researchist]

What is the most cost effective way to measure telomere length?

[Gurdjieff]

for those who are familiar comfortable practiced in sub-Q injecting of peptides are there any bars or downsides to doing likewise w epitalon

if so... what would they be

if not...what would b the preparatory diluents n volumes n protocols

I bought some clinical grade epitalon for injection from Clinical Grade Peptides. Their web site contains full details on diluents, volumes and protocols (see the relevant buttons on their help page).

I have been injecting it for three weeks now, twice daily, and have a week's supply left. Then I intend to switch to sub-lingual Epitalon (I joined the group buy). Injecting hasn't been too bad, but I wouldn't want to face doing it twice daily for months or years.

I haven't had any significantly noticeable effects yet, although my facial skin seems healthier, and it seems to give me a slight 'mental clarity' boost soon after injection.

Apart from its longer-term effects, I hoped it would have a similar effect on me as a Neways supplement called Emperor's Formula which contains Astragalus. This supplement markedly decreases my recovery times from exercise, seems to facilitate more intense exercise, increases mental clarity, and removes the bodily aches and pains that started up as I got older (I am 60 now). Every time I stopped taking it over the last two and a half years, the aches and pains started again. But it is expensive, I don't like buying these kinds of things from social marketing companies, and I intuited that it is probably not best to take it for many years (I should add that two friends who tried it on the basis of my experience did not notice these effects on them). But the Epitalon has not had the same short-term effects on me. I am now trying C60 since it is reported anecdotally on this site to have similar effects, and I might cycle it with the Emperor's Formula.

[jabowery]

What about a KickStarter project to try to take an M-Prize award with epitalon?

[researchist]

jabowrery, what is the dosage you inject?