1755 replies to this topic

[Dreamer]

I have noticed that my Epitalion mix is starting to get small white particulates. Is this clumping due to too high of an alcohol content?

I have only noticed this incomplete dissolving of the peptide when the alcohol has been added before the peptide is completely dissolved. I have never experienced it coming back out of solution.

The one time I experienced incomplete dissolving, I continued taking that mix with no change in effects and nothing negative.

[solarfingers]

I have noticed that my Epitalion mix is starting to get small white particulates. Is this clumping due to too high of an alcohol content?

I have only noticed this incomplete dissolving of the peptide when the alcohol has been added before the peptide is completely dissolved. I have never experienced it coming back out of solution.

The one time I experienced incomplete dissolving, I continued taking that mix with no change in effects and nothing negative.

Yes, it is odd. I'm taking it just the same. I know that I read that too high an alcohol content would cause it to clump-up. It took over a week to do so however. I first mixed it with sterile water and added the alcohol last.

[hav]

Never seen white particles in my epitalon mix but I only mix enough at any one time to last a week. I do occasionally see residue along the outside tip of my dropper bottle, presumably from a little wetting that area and then drying.

I tried adding my usual 5mg - 2 drop dosage into another sub-q peptide I was taking last night and I didn't experience any out of the ordinary dreams. Or anything else different that I could perceive. Don't take melatonin and have never had any sleep issues. Will stick to epitalon under the tongue.

Howard

[BlueCloud]

If this is a valid, bonafide company (and not an individual who wishes to keep his private information out of the public) then why are the contacts not available? A REAL company would welcome calls for information.

Just a quick comment on this company ( Supersmart.com ). Yes they are valid. They have been around for a long time, and i have ordered various stuff from them many years ago ( nothing experimental, basic stuff, Aryuvedic herbs, choline, alcar, etc..), and the quality seemed on par with what I get from iHerb, Swanson's etc.. Not better, not worse.
I also believe they are french ( or belgian, or swiss ?) as their paper catalogue they used to send me years ago definitely seems redacted by native french speakers, not by some chinese-french translators. That's something I can spot very easily.
I remember that "SuperNutrition" didn't exist before, it's an entity they seem to have created later to market stuff like Pregnenolone, Dhea and other hormones wich are regulated in France, but the laws still allows for some tolerance in legaly buying small quantities as an individual. They probably set this semi-separate company because of the law regulations. So the "regular" supplements are sold by SuperSmart, and the more "experimental" stuff ( like Epitalon) is sold by SuperNutrition.
Being based in Luxembourg ( a french speaking tiny little country ) is not surprising, probably for tax reasons. Lots of european and foreign companies ( including Apple) register there mainly for the lower taxes.

I very rarely buy from them nowadays because i find them very overpriced. But so are all supplements sold in health stores in France, they are just ridiculously overpriced ( and add to that very little choice of brands)...

That said , i have zero intention of trying Epitalon or C60. This stuff is way too expensive and experimental for me. I think i'll patiently wait for the courageous and heroic guinea pigs ( ) of this forum to go through the experiments, and I want to see some more independant studies. I've been around these kind of forums for a long time, and every six months or so i see a new experimental substance appearing and everyone going " OMG ! THIS IS IT !!", just to see all the enthusiam deflate six months later for various reasons and the whole thing become completely forgotten one year later.. Hopefully Epitalon (and C60, and a few novel things) will hold their promises..

[solarfingers]

I found this on antiaging-systems.com's website, "Even dosing doesn’t need to be daily, these peptide bioregulators have been shown to act even after a simple course of 2 capsules daily for 10-days. Healthy individuals only being encouraged to repeat the course 6-months later, although of course depending on the need this course can be repeated every 3-months, 2-months or 1-month if necessary. But compared to a hormone replacement therapy this is interesting, since hormones would require almost daily application. But these peptide bioregulators aren’t hormones, they are acting on the gland concerned to ‘encourage’ it to become active and effectively ‘younger’ by triggering/ activating the DNA responsible."

I wonder if cycling Epitalion is the way to go since it is so expensive.... Higher dosages over a shorter period of time might prove to be more beneficial. This would make room for trying other peptides.

[Authentic]

I'm holding back using any more Epitalon. I tried using it every Sunday night only but that seemed to cause to insomnia 2 nights later, in a way that I haven't experienced before. I think it alters melatonin or other hormone production and if you use it just once per week there is a shortage created after the boost. I don't think I'm using language that really describes this well, but I hope you understand my meaning.

Whatever the health benefits, they are negated for me by the sleep cycle changes which is a negative health consequence. Now I have to figure out what to do with all this Epitalon I have left over :(

[hav]

I found this on antiaging-systems.com's website, "Even dosing doesn’t need to be daily, these peptide bioregulators have been shown to act even after a simple course of 2 capsules daily for 10-days. Healthy individuals only being encouraged to repeat the course 6-months later, although of course depending on the need this course can be repeated every 3-months, 2-months or 1-month if necessary. But compared to a hormone replacement therapy this is interesting, since hormones would require almost daily application. But these peptide bioregulators aren’t hormones, they are acting on the gland concerned to ‘encourage’ it to become active and effectively ‘younger’ by triggering/ activating the DNA responsible."

I wonder if cycling Epitalion is the way to go since it is so expensive.... Higher dosages over a shorter period of time might prove to be more beneficial. This would make room for trying other peptides.

I found that same quote relating to one of Khavinson's peptides that he calls Cerluten on his World Anti-Aging Store web site. It was discussed a little bit here. Couldn't find a stitch of published research on it or any specifics like what the aa chain consists of, how big or long it is, or if taking it orally actually does or is likely to do anything.

Howard

[solarfingers]

I just like the idea that the effects may be long lasting. I have noticed a positive change in my skin and a bit of reversal in my balding. I have been taking Propetia for over a year and I have only seen explosive growth since I started Epitalion a month ago.

[researchist]

Is the AGAG powder absorbable sublingually with no soluent?

[solarfingers]

Is the AGAG powder absorbable sublingually with no soluent?

I would think it would dissolve into siliva, but boy wouldn't that be hard to administer?

[sciwalk]

Yes, it is, very much so.

[Authentic]

could someone please post information to show that it is absorbable other than their opinion

[Dreamer]

There are quite a few citations that it is effective sublingually in solution which you can find.

Since it is the size of the peptide that determines what is absorbable sublingually, it stands to reason that if taken in powder form that it would be absorbable as it is in solution.

I take a couple powder forms sublingually and the do absorb.

[Authentic]

Dreamer I have searched for this before and wasn't able to find anything showing it's effectiveness sublingual.

Could you please post a few of the citations? All of the research I've seen was done by injection only. I've explain this concern before that dosing and effectiveness changes when switching from injection to oral delivery (whether sublingual or taken in regular pill form). I can't find anything at all for sublingual epitalon tests, effectiveness, research etc..

[Dreamer]

The information is out there for those that do their DD research. Just put more effort into your research and I'm sure you can find the information you seek.

I really do not have the time or inclination to do the research for you.

[Authentic]

I did the research. Dreamer, there isn't anything out there based on my research.

If you could please post anything that backs up your statements that "There are quite a few citations that it is effective sublingually in solution which you can find", otherwise please don't make statements like that. It sends me and others on a wild goose chase.

[solarfingers]

Well, it's not a citation but here's a product... http://www.super-nut...pplements--H644

Peptide absorption occurs across oral mucosa by passive diffusion and it is unlikely that there is a carrier-mediated transport mechanism. The principal pathway is probably via the intercellular route where the major permeability barrier is represented by organized array of neutral lipids in the superficial layers of the epithelium.

Is the oral route possible for peptide and protein drug delivery?

There's more... just Google, "sublingual peptide delivery"

[Authentic]

Thank you for posting that but the product link is just another product made with Sciwalk's Chinese epitalon :( There still is no actual research showing how much is actually absorbed sublingual or the dosage needed to get the same results as all of the animal tests that were done via injection. The link you gave sort of raises more questions than answers. I don't want to paraphrase it so I'll post it;

Delivery of peptide/protein drugs by conventional means such as solutions has some limitations. The possibility of excluding a major part of drug from absorption by involuntary swallowing and the continuous dilution due to salivary flow limits a controlled release. However these limitations can be overcome by adhesive dosage forms such as gels, films, tablets, and patches. They can localize the formulation and improve the contact with the mucosal surface to improve absorption of peptides and proteins. Addition of absorption promoters/permeabilizers in bioadhesive dosage forms will be essential for a successful peptide/protein delivery system.

[Dreamer]

You know, inauthentic, ever since you first posted here, you have failed to contribute anything positive. Instead, you attack everyone and everything possible to create confusion, doubt and distrust.

You have repeatedly attacked Sciwalk, the Topic Starter, in attempts to discredit him, you have attacked others as well as me for similar reasons and you now try to discredit the sublingual method of peptide delivery. You obviously have an agenda. My guess is that you are trying to "guide" us to something from which you can profit.

While you infer in your posts that you are quire knowledgeable in these matters, you demonstrate no grasp of the subject matter and cannot even figure out what your last post means. If you could, you would not have posted it.

I have posted a couple of times how I take the peptide sublingually and what works and does not work for me. I know it works because I have experienced the results.

As a result of your past and current behavior, I have absolutely no desire to enlighten you or provide you with any more information because I do not believe that you really wish to learn and be enlightened. With you, it's more about stirring the pot.

So, please do your own Due Diligence and research and stop asking others to do it for you and then dismissing what they provide to again create more doubt, confusion and distrust.

Since you claim to be so knowledgeable and capable, I'm sure you are able to do your own DD research to your own satisfaction. I don't think many here really care what you believe or don't believe so you really do not have to share your conclusions. I also don't believe anyone here is looking to you for information or guidance.

[Authentic]

Dreamer, you have made money from selling Epitalon to people on this forum. Whatever you say, that fact remains true.

You're very upset that you've been exposed, and you post false statements which you can't substantiate at all.

Please stop selling on this forum and posting false statements. It's downright trickery and you should be banned.

[researchist]

Is the AGAG powder absorbable sublingually with no soluent?

I would think it would dissolve into siliva, but boy wouldn't that be hard to administer?

How to administer: Weigh out your dose, pop it under the tongue. Let it remain there. I did wonder, if anyone knew a reason, why any of the more elaborate preferred methods of maintaining or administering allowed better utilization of the peptide or helped it maintain its potency beyond what simple keeping the powder cool and dry would do. All I had read indicated that it was absorbed sublingually and that it needed to be kept cool and dry. . What your not using can be frozen. Not that a nice titrated dropper system isn't nice. Injection would give better utilization however the main difference is that in a subcutaneous injection the does is captured and cant run off into the stomach. In both cases the fine capillaries would absorb it about the same rate. I don't have the figures on comparison between ingesting it and the other 2 methods but it stand to reason it might not be as efficient.

[researchist]

Dreamer, you have made money from selling Epitalon to people on this forum. Whatever you say, that fact remains true.

You're very upset that you've been exposed, and you post false statements which you can't substantiate at all.

Please stop selling on this forum and posting false statements. It's downright trickery and you should be banned.

Actually, I think this kind of attack is far more undesirable on this forum than anything you are accusing him of.

[Dreamer]

Your true colors are showing, inauthentic.

You don't have any facts to contribute so you attack some of the people and the most popular delivery method.

Please stop making baseless and defamatory claims about some of us here. You only provide more reasons to distrust you and pay you less attention.

I won't be responding to anymore of your stupid posts. I hope the moderators remove your ability to post here and perhaps on the other forums as well since you have nothing positive to contribute. Maybe they will be smart enough to block your IP address so you cannot post under another ID.

[Authentic]

When someone posts false information on this forum they do more damage than anything else.

I've already reported Dreamer & Sciwalk to the moderators.

(To any casual reader, please be very careful in making any decisions based on text you read that is posted by people who earn a profit by you buying epitalon)

Edited by Authentic, 18 September 2013 - 05:47 PM.

[solarfingers]

Authentic, I will buy from whoever I wish... You my friend can jump in the pond.

Thank you for posting that but the product link is just another product made with Sciwalk's Chinese epitalon :( There still is no actual research showing how much is actually absorbed sublingual or the dosage needed to get the same results as all of the animal tests that were done via injection. The link you gave sort of raises more questions than answers. I don't want to paraphrase it so I'll post it;

Delivery of peptide/protein drugs by conventional means such as solutions has some limitations. The possibility of excluding a major part of drug from absorption by involuntary swallowing and the continuous dilution due to salivary flow limits a controlled release. However these limitations can be overcome by adhesive dosage forms such as gels, films, tablets, and patches. They can localize the formulation and improve the contact with the mucosal surface to improve absorption of peptides and proteins. Addition of absorption promoters/permeabilizers in bioadhesive dosage forms will be essential for a successful peptide/protein delivery system.

How ignorant! Did you read the citations? Why didn't you Google it and see what a prevalent subject it is. I think your more biased than you wish to admit. I don't care what you think, nor does anyone else it seems.

[Authentic]

Solarfingers, do you agree that just like Sciwalk who makes Epitalon, Epitalon will make your wife happy, make your hair regrow, make you never get sick again, add color to your hair, make your skin decades younger, increase your strength and much more? Please don't answer that - I'm joking but Hugo really did make these claims.

Dreamer claimed very clearly that "There are quite a few citations that it (Epitalon) is effective sublingually in solution which you can find". But - there are no citations. He then did his usual personal attacks when I called him out on it. Epitalon might work wonders, but there is no true research to be found anywhere that it is effective when used sublingual. Dreamer says that he uses it sublingual and it "works" for him. That's great, but that's not scientific. Your link was helpful but it says that sublingual has "limitations" and that the "Addition of absorption promoters/permeabilizers in bioadhesive dosage forms will be essential for a successful peptide/protein delivery system."

I wish I had some product to sell you but I just don't. All I can do is poke holes in some ridiculous statements made here by people who do

[pleb]

I wish I had some product to sell you but I just don't. All I can do is poke holes in some ridiculous statements made here by people who do
----------------------------------------------------------------------
you mean the ridiculous statement, like every peptide or hormone made in china is rubbish

[sciwalk]

Osmosis

In order for a nutrient to be effectively absorbed sublingually, it needs to be able to travel across the buccal mucous membranes; by a process of diffusion known as osmosis which applies to all forms of absorption by the body; governing both intestinal and sublingual absorption. The distribution of water across cell walls depends on the osmotic difference in the blood between the intracellular and extracellular fluid. The distribution of water across blood vessel walls is determined by the in-vivo osmotic pressure of plasma and the total outward hydrostatic pressure. Unlike the cell membrane, the capillary wall is freely and rapidly permeable to small molecules. The diffusion of water accross a membrane that is only permeable to water depends on the molecular weight of the particle. Small particles that readily dissolve in water, rarely present a problem in permeation and diffusion, and so are able to move freely between the tissues of the body. Active transportation into cells leads to rapid metabolism of the substances. Molecules such as glucose (fructose) and amino acids are essential for cell metabolism and special mechanisms have evolved to facilitate their rapid diffusion and permeation across cell membranes.
Taken from : http://www.positiveh...on<br /><br />This was a discussion about, a question about, the ability for AEDG to be absorbed subliqual if placed in powder form under the tongue. As your saliva would dissolve it instantly the answer would be yes. There was never a question raised about it being able to be absorbed subliqual except by you, Authentic.
A very large protein in the order of 300 amino acids can be as small as 3nm. AEDG is only 4 amino acids and disolves in water, so much so, to the extent that 50mg can resolve into 1 - 2 drops of water.

As for your assertion that I am the supplier for Super Smart, I guess I need to ask you, where is your documentation? Or, I could simply tell you the truth, "No". But it does not really matter what I say as far as you are concerned, you will just argue the point and I am not here to argue with you, just to answer questions if someone asks and I have an answer.
Have a nice day!

[solarfingers]

Solarfingers, do you agree that just like Sciwalk who makes Epitalon, Epitalon will make your wife happy, make your hair regrow, make you never get sick again, add color to your hair, make your skin decades younger, increase your strength and much more? Please don't answer that - I'm joking but Hugo really did make these claims.

Dreamer claimed very clearly that "There are quite a few citations that it (Epitalon) is effective sublingually in solution which you can find". But - there are no citations. He then did his usual personal attacks when I called him out on it. Epitalon might work wonders, but there is no true research to be found anywhere that it is effective when used sublingual. Dreamer says that he uses it sublingual and it "works" for him. That's great, but that's not scientific. Your link was helpful but it says that sublingual has "limitations" and that the "Addition of absorption promoters/permeabilizers in bioadhesive dosage forms will be essential for a successful peptide/protein delivery system."

I wish I had some product to sell you but I just don't. All I can do is poke holes in some ridiculous statements made here by people who do

No, He owns stock in a company that does (did). It's making my hair grow. I'm not going to shoot it up no matter what you say, so...? Complaining and making accusations has its limitations. You have exceeded them here as well as my patience.

[Dreamer]

Thanks for that explanation, Sciwalk. It helps clarify things.

I also find that if one really wants more information on the sublingual absorbability of AGAG/AEDG that all one has to do is Google Epitalon sublingual absorption and one will find lots of information. It really isn't that difficult to find the information.