1755 replies to this topic

[TaiChiKid]

I would like to report on an alternate way to take Epitalon using DMSO as a topical carrier, good because it uses no needles!  On scanning all the Epitalon posts, I found one by Longecity member 4ever_young who reported good results.  I wrote him to ask his method, which was basically to dissolve 100mg of Epitalon powder in DMSO, then use a measured amount ot apply topically.

 

This method rang a bell with me since some friends had developed and commercialized a treatment for macular degeneration using the same idea: use DMSO to carry a marker dye into the eye where the macular degeneration could be vaporised with a laser without much surrounding damage.

 

I began to look up how DMSO worked by Googling "how does DMSO penetrate the skin?" and found a whole site dedicated to the subject with scientific references.  this site is at DMSO.org/articles/information/herschler.htm for those wanting to explore this possible method of using Epitalon without having to inject it, and avoiding the specter of using pre-mixed Epitalon/water with possible bacterial contamination which some have been reporting.  It also turns out DMSO is a bactericide.

 

the nice thing is that DMSO mixes nicely with polar molecules, such as Epitalon which is four amino acids terminated by a -OH, and is therefore polar.

 

Last night I dissoled 100mg of Epitalon powder into 3mL of 70% DMSO, pharmaceutical grade, which I got prescribed to me from my MD.  I applied 0.1mL to my wrist using a 1mL tuberculin syringe -without the needle- and rubbed the tiny amount of solution into my wrist in the evening.  You can noticethe effect of DMSO seconds after it touches your skin because you taste garlic in your mouth..

 

Noticed very good sleep, and also increase uring flow the next morning.  (DMSO is a diuretic.)

 

For those of you who would like to try an Epitalon without needles experiment.

[aconita]

DMSO 90% gives the highest absorption.

 

Adding urea increases absorption, eliminates the garlic taste and the possible skin irritations.

 

DMSO doesn't go well along plastic of any kind, some do better than others but I would personally avoid contact with plastic for good measure, use glass instead.

 

It is bactericidal but very mildly so, as far as I know there are no data about its preserving proprieties when it comes to peptides, possibly good enough but better play safe and avoid relying too much on it (don't store for long).

 

You don't need to rub DMSO in, actually is better you don't, eventually just spread it and live it alone.

 

If epitalon is contaminated the topical route isn't going to spare you from getting the contaminants (heavy metals, for example), if gets in it gets in with all the goods and bads.

 

Usually epitalon protocol is 10 days at 10mg/day once or twice a year, subq isn't such a big deal for that short amount of time and most likely a more effective route of administration.

 

I doubt 0.1ml DMSO can exert any perceivable diuretic effect.

 

By the way a drop kept under the tongue for 15 minutes (sublingual) would be a much smarter option, DMSO/ethanol 50/50 would better guarantee shelf life without hindering absorption.

[TaiChiKid]

There may be two advantages to using DMSO vs jabbing:  1) DMSO and its attached molecule penetrates most major organs, and 2) The half-life is 72 hours:  the importance of the half-life is that almost 1/4 of your original amount may still be doing its magic a week later.  A dose lasts longer..

[TaiChiKid]

Hi Aconita, glad to get your input.

 

You said: " If epitalon is contaminated the topical route isn't going to spare you from getting the contaminants (heavy metals, for example), if gets in it gets in with all the goods and bads."

 

True:  I was comparing the reconsituted Epitalon that was referred to as being 'convenient to use.'   Anytime you trust someone to add 'BAC water' to your powder, you are risking that the company has contaminated the Epitalon with tainted water.

 

You also said:  "Usually epitalon protocol is 10 days at 10mg/day once or twice a year, subq isn't such a big deal for that short amount of time and most likely a more effective route of administration."

 

My comment:  It depends on how much Epitalon is absorbed by each organ by using sub-Q administration vs using DMSO.  In the method using DMSO, there are enough molecules per mole of DMSO that they can each combine with the heavier weight molecules of Epitalon.  Clearly the DMSO gets in the bloodstream very very quickly, because you can taste it within seconds after administering the DMSO-Epitalon topically.  The combination then penetrates most organs (see the site I gave which originated from Dapt. of Surgery U. of O).  But if you administer sub-Q or IV, who knows how long before the Epitalon gets modified by the liver or otherwise degraded?

 

There is also the post about half-lives that I added directly after my original idea.  You might require a much lower dose if my reasoning is correct..

 

 

[YOLF]

Hmmm... 72 hours seems like a long time to increase the permeability of your tissues... be sure you have already been meticulous with understanding the finer workings of your diet and metabolism or it could get pretty bad. DMSO, though it has been talked about here at length is largely used just for preclinical work and is later replaced with other things.

[TaiChiKid]

The idea with the permeability was to get the Epitalon into all the organs, where it presumably lengthens telomeres.  DMSO used to be used for sports injuries in people, but pharma doesn't like the no profit scenario, so thought of reasons to kill its application:  make you buy MSM.  I believe it is still used in veterinarian medicine though.

[YOLF]

The idea with the permeability was to get the Epitalon into all the organs, where it presumably lengthens telomeres.  DMSO used to be used for sports injuries in people, but pharma doesn't like the no profit scenario, so thought of reasons to kill its application:  make you buy MSM.  I believe it is still used in veterinarian medicine though.

I know similar hasn't been demonstrated in adults, but DMSO wasn't good for neurodevelopment. I forget the exact reasons, but I'd worry that chronic use could harm adults in similar ways not yet described. The fanatical devotion some have to it makes me worry, and it's a big risk to take if it causes brain damage. 

 

What do you think about allantoin? EDTA? EDTA probably has side effects other than studied at 750mg/kg in rats or 10-20g in humans for cytotoxicity and non cancerous, mild genotoxicity, but they aren't long lasting and generally worth it, though I still don't take anywhere near whole 500mg capsules and see some great benefits from enhanced tissue penetration of supplements taken in combination with it.

 

How much DMSO are you using at a time? I worry that pharma didn't publish the reason why they stopped using it to avoid lawsuits. Or maybe patients just don't like garlic breath and that weird tongue symptom everyone talks about? DMSO is almost 40% methyl groups. That can't be good for the liver and might have caused the developmental brain damage in children as neurosteroids are dependent on some liver functions. Regular use could downregulate a neurosteroid pathway similar to how antihistamine induced cognitive decline (or early dementia) went unnoticed for 80+ years. I'm not an expert on it, but I'm seeing the beginning of a predictable pattern here.

 

As for the duration of the permeability, shorter duration means more control and I would think that reduces overall risk of suffering side effects.

[TaiChiKid]

Hi Yolf, I dissolved 100mg of Epitalon in 3mL of DMSO, and plan to take 0.1mL once a week which is only a few drops.  Also I think with all theother telomere lengthening compounds I have tried before, that there is a limit to telomere lengthening, and that once you reach that limit you are likely wasting time and money..

Oh, DMSO is a byproduct of wood manufacturing, so cannot be profitable for pharma.  You can buy gallons of it for practically pennies.

[YOLF]

Hi Yolf, I dissolved 100mg of Epitalon in 3mL of DMSO, and plan to take 0.1mL once a week which is only a few drops.  Also I think with all theother telomere lengthening compounds I have tried before, that there is a limit to telomere lengthening, and that once you reach that limit you are likely wasting time and money..

Oh, DMSO is a byproduct of wood manufacturing, so cannot be profitable for pharma.  You can buy gallons of it for practically pennies.

Doesn't sound like a terrible amount, but the down regulation, if it occurs would be subtle due to the long half life.

 

Telomeres are likely just more complicated, there is probably a ceiling, but smaller animals can have much longer telomeres and some human phenotypes are likely to have longer telos than others. It may be beneficial to most to reach that ceiling, but I suppose it could slow or limit the amount of "flapping around" that DNA ends can do? Telomeres reach their peak length at around 17 iirc. I'd look at how far you are from there, and how long you have to take the stuff to get there adjusted for the rate of accelerating loss during dosing, and then assume you could go beyond that to some extent.

[aconita]

DMSO wasn't good for neurodevelopment. I forget the exact reasons

 

http://journals.plos...al.pone.0107447

[mike888]

I would like to draw attention to Professor Khavinsons statement in an interview regarding his own use of peptides:

 

SR: How long you think you are going to live?

VK: My father died at 92, my mother is still alive at 92, I have developed a special complex from the pineal gland, from thymus, from brain, from vessels and from heart which I take as injections, not as food supple-ments, for 10 days every year. I think I am physically and mentally not more than 45 years old even though chronologically I am 66 years old at present.

[PeaceAndProsperity]

http://journals.plos...al.pone.0107447

Ouch that's really scary... just when you think you've found a miracle chemical then it turns out to be potentially neurotoxic..

 

[PeaceAndProsperity]

I would like to draw attention to Professor Khavinsons statement in an interview regarding his own use of peptides:

 

SR: How long you think you are going to live?

VK: My father died at 92, my mother is still alive at 92, I have developed a special complex from the pineal gland, from thymus, from brain, from vessels and from heart which I take as injections, not as food supple-ments, for 10 days every year. I think I am physically and mentally not more than 45 years old even though chronologically I am 66 years old at present.

He looks good for his age of 70 years 8 months 25 days (exact calculation for today; most photos found on Google are of his younger self) but he does not look 40. He looks like a young looking late-50s to 60 year old.

 

[mike888]

The interview was taken when he was 66 years old. He was not talking about his appearance

 

 I think I am physically and mentally not more than 45 years old 

 

Would be interesting to compare him with Ray Kurzweil, Engineering director of Google, who made similar claims :-)

 

[PeaceAndProsperity]

The interview was taken when he was 66 years old. He was not talking about his appearance

 

 I think I am physically and mentally not more than 45 years old 

 

Would be interesting to compare him with Ray Kurzweil, Engineering director of Google, who made similar claims :-)

Ray Kurzweil looks terrible. He looks like an evil, greedy goblin merchant.

 

Some people age well. Look at Putin when he was young, he looked like the product of a nuclear disaster. Now as he's aged he looks more human and not bad at all.

 

[Nate-2004]

 

DMSO wasn't good for neurodevelopment. I forget the exact reasons

 

http://journals.plos...al.pone.0107447

 

 

Well damn. That's not good. Especially since I have ET. Ugh. Just wasted $9 on urea then.

[ceridwen]

I think it is a cost benefit analysis. Does the Epitalon counteract the DMSO by doing more good. I took DMSO today but see this as a calculated risk.

[aconita]

Most neurotoxic effects reported in the link I provided are from in vitro research, in vivo might be another story,  anyway better to keep that in consideration before bathing in DMSO all day long....

 

There are no reports of adverse effects of DMSO from users and it's around since quite a while...

 

It is an FDA approved medication for interstitial cystitis (injected)....

 

Used with a grain of salt isn't likely to be harmful and for some purposes is valuable indeed, eventually I would be concerned about an everyday use for prolonged lapses of time, some now and than in tiny amounts might even exert an hormetic response...we just don't know.

 

For sure in vitro often is very different than in vivo.

[PeaceAndProsperity]

FULL BODY REJUVENATION INCOMING!!!

Well damn. That's not good. Especially since I have ET. Ugh. Just wasted $9 on urea then.

ET as in essential tremor?

 

[aconita]

Just wasted $9 on urea then

 

Not really, even if you decide not to use DMSO anymore urea is quite handy, you can add it to most topical formulations for skin amelioration, up to about 10-15% hydrates and soften skin, around 20-25 or even above exfoliates skin but very gently, isn't a peeling agent, just exfoliates dead skin.

 

It probably works much better than most expensive cosmetics on the market.

[YOLF]

Khavinson's protocol sound like he's concentrating on brain and hormone health. I'm not sure if the Khavinson lineup will work for total cosmetic age reversal purposes beyond that of just being healthier unless used synergistically with other things. Though, I'm not totally familiar with the lineup or how it works. I would think that if cosmetic benefits could be expected, Khavinson would look 20, as it is, he looks younger in some respects, though whoever is doing the medicine, we're pretty limited on AGEs removal and removal of damaged lysosomes etc... at least in terms of facts on paper.  But we're getting good at alot of things too. Expectations should be in line with the available capacities and combinations.

 

Kurzweil looks somewhat younger or at least healthier too, though I'm not sure how much you can expect until some of the harder age reversal targets get addressed or people start promoting things that are somewhat more obscure and abandoned now. 

 

Putin doesn't look to have aged much in the last 20 years, but he's not aging backwards either... maybe Khavinson is a body double. Putin started going bald early, but he doesn't look like he went swimming in a reactor or anything. His skin is and was pretty healthy, perhaps he got the Khavinson protocol starting young?

[Nate-2004]

FULL BODY REJUVENATION INCOMING!!!

Well damn. That's not good. Especially since I have ET. Ugh. Just wasted $9 on urea then.

ET as in essential tremor?

 Yes

[Gramson]

hello all

been a while since I posted. An interesting development has occurred.

 

I have been taking Epitalon sub q for about three years now, and last February 2017, I sent for a telomere length report with TeloYears ( $89).

After a while, I called to see why the report was late. A officer of TeloYears called me, and asked if I was taking anything for Telomere length. I said Epitalon. He seemed incredulous. 

For some reason, the report came back that I am 7! genetically, and I am 73 years old.

 

Strange.

 

I took another course of Epitalon, and the report just came back that I am 47 genetically, and that I am the youngest genetitally tested 73 year old.

 

photo attached.

 

 

I

 

 

pf4363@gmail.com

Edited by Gramson, 10 September 2017 - 05:18 PM.

[jabowery]

...I have been taking Epitalon sub q for about three years now,..

I took another course of Epitalon, and the report just came back that I am 47 genetically, and that I am the youngest genetitally tested 73 year old...

What was your source of Epitalon and did you change sources between the two courses?  What dosage/protocol did you follow?

Edited by jabowery, 10 September 2017 - 05:30 PM.

[Gramson]

I use Ceretropics for Epitalon. I have been taking 2mg a day for about three years, and three vials a year.

Since this January 2017, I am taking 10MG a day. I have taken three vials, and just ordered 5 from a new supplier, Nootropic source.com

ceretropics is 123$ per vial, and many problems with credit cards. Apparently someone, a competitor maybe, keeps reporting them for questionable activities. I don't really know though.

 

NootropicSource offers discounts, to about $85 per 100MG. Sign up for newsletter, then wait for e mail with 10% off.

 

The smaller bottleis easier to measure and mix for 10MG.

Attached Thumbnails

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[AdamI]

 

So the test is far from accurate then, because last time u did it, it said 47?

[mikey]

hello all

been a while since I posted. An interesting development has occurred.

 

I have been taking Epitalon sub q for about three years now, and last February 2017, I sent for a telomere length report with TeloYears ( $89).

After a while, I called to see why the report was late. A officer of TeloYears called me, and asked if I was taking anything for Telomere length. I said Epitalon. He seemed incredulous. 

For some reason, the report came back that I am 7! genetically, and I am 73 years old.

 

Strange.

 

I took another course of Epitalon, and the report just came back that I am 47 genetically, and that I am the youngest genetitally tested 73 year old.

 

photo attached.

 

 

I

 

telo1.jpg

 

pf4363@gmail.com

 

Somehow this read as "For some reason, the report came back that I am 7! genetically."

 

What is "7!"

 

Thank you!

[Gramson]

No , not at all. Apparently my first report SHOULD have been around 50, as they called me on the low score, but perhaps thought something was wrong with their equipment after calling me, and reported as 71. BUT, another person might have finalized the test, and did something wrong. THey DID call me asking what I was taking.

 

The 47 would be accurate, and what I was expecting, due to that phone call.

 

anyway, get a test before starting a program, if possible, to see if you show gains.

[aconita]

...and don't tell them your real age!

[Advocatus Diaboli]

aconita is spot on. Also, don't tell your real name either. Maybe get someone to order it for you and shipped to their address. With a real name and address it's easy enough to find someone's age.