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Epitalon (Split from Astragalus thread)


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#1681 mikey

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Posted 08 November 2017 - 03:03 AM

Somehow I can't find the Khavinson paper wherein is discussed how much Epitalon was used twice per year; was it 10mg per day for 10 consecutive days, twice per year? 

I see some here are using Epitalon daily. Wouldn't we think Khavinson used the above protocol since (previous) studies confirmed that gave the most results? Why use more if it wouldn't yield extra results (and may perhaps cause harm)? 

 

 

Since they has never been shown to cause toxicity there is no reason that I am aware of not to use it continually.

 

The Russian government likely did a calculation and found that for the dollars saved on health care 10 mg of each for ten days every six months is financially prudent.

 

But this doesn't mean that they are doing this because this is the best pattern and that doing it more would not improve results (or cause harm). 

 

It can easily just be a pattern of use that is economically feasible. 

 

Like any special commodity, they have a limited supply of it and a limited capacity for production of it.

 

I do know that about a year or so ago they started to limit its distribution to all but Russian citizens because of supply problems. They cut supply of it off to one (non-Russian) group that I know of for this reason.



#1682 Moondancer

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Posted 08 November 2017 - 03:05 AM

So what would you recommend when it comes to dosing, Mikey? Another problem is of course that after reconstution you wouldn't want to keep the Epitalon too long in the fridge to avoid spoilage.

 

But the S. Petersburg institute also recommends most of their own patients/clients to take Epitalon for 10-20 consecutive days once or twice per year, don't they? You'd think they wouldn't do that if they felt this was the protocol that yields most results - after all most patients wouldn't hesitate too much to buy more Epitalon if that was the recommended dose.


Edited by Moondancer, 08 November 2017 - 03:16 AM.


#1683 aribadabar

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Posted 08 November 2017 - 03:09 AM

Does the Khavinson lineup have a kidney derived peptide?

 Yes, it's called Pielotax

 

pielotaks.jpg


Edited by aribadabar, 08 November 2017 - 03:11 AM.


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#1684 DeepBluC

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Posted 08 November 2017 - 03:35 AM

how many shekels are we talking here. for both epitalon and thylamin. that is the minimum for what is needed. is this thru pay pal????


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#1685 YOLF

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Posted 08 November 2017 - 04:13 AM

 

Does the Khavinson lineup have a kidney derived peptide?

 Yes, it's called Pielotax

 

pielotaks.jpg

 

Do we know what the amino acid sequence is?



#1686 TaiChiKid

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Posted 08 November 2017 - 05:13 AM

My bad, I thinnk that it was Logic that took PayPal..



#1687 calm--

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Posted 08 November 2017 - 10:01 AM

If we could request the size per vial, then I would like to have it as 20 x 10 mg thymalin. Sorry for the change. Just realize won't be able to finish 100 mg before it's spoiled.



#1688 aribadabar

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Posted 08 November 2017 - 02:51 PM

 

 

Does the Khavinson lineup have a kidney derived peptide?

 Yes, it's called Pielotax

 

pielotaks.jpg

 

Do we know what the amino acid sequence is?

 

 

It is not a synthetic version like Thymogen discussed above but a natural tissue extract so no, we/I don't.



#1689 aribadabar

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Posted 08 November 2017 - 02:54 PM

.


 


Edited by aribadabar, 08 November 2017 - 02:54 PM.


#1690 Moondancer

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Posted 08 November 2017 - 04:50 PM

Newest update for the group buy of Epitalon (+ Thymalin) (in random order):

 

  1. Meatsauce 
  2. Moondancer (incl.Thymalin)
  3. TaiChiKid (incl. 5 x 100mg Thymalin (if it is the two amino acid version) and 10 x 100mg epitalon -- Canada)
  4. Gramson (incl. Thymalin)
  5. Benko
  6. Mikey (incl. Thymalin -- 30 x10mg epitalon depending on costs)
  7. Katkay (incl. Thymalin -- US)
  8. DeepBluC (incl. Thymalin -- US)
  9. Brendan1 (incl. Thymalin -- may be interested depending on costs -- US)
  10. DareDevil (incl. Thymalin)
  11. Calm (no Epitalon; only Thymalin 20 x 10 mg  -- Indonesia).

​It seems we will certainly make the 2 grams-mark. If everyone please wants to say how much you want to order, perhaps we can go ahead and contact GenScript by now to see if they can offer a nice price? Meatsauce did you still want to contact GenScript to ask for potential prices and arrange for the group buy, or not? Thanks very much.

 

If I forgot anyone in the group order please let me know.

 

Meatsauce, do you accept payment via Paypal?



#1691 mikey

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Posted 08 November 2017 - 07:01 PM

 

 

 

Does the Khavinson lineup have a kidney derived peptide?

 Yes, it's called Pielotax

 

pielotaks.jpg

 

Do we know what the amino acid sequence is?

 

 

It is not a synthetic version like Thymogen discussed above but a natural tissue extract so no, we/I don't.

 

 

It may provide more beneficial effects, as other full-spectrum iterations do.

 

Remember, synthetic isolates provide a fraction of the full multiplicity of all the peptides in the combined effects.

I prefer that it is oral, also. 



#1692 Gramson

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Posted 09 November 2017 - 01:33 AM

 

Newest update for the group buy of Epitalon (+ Thymalin) (in random order):

 

  1. Meatsauce 
  2. Moondancer (incl.Thymalin)
  3. TaiChiKid (incl. 5 x 100mg Thymalin (if it is the two amino acid version) and 10 x 100mg epitalon -- Canada)
  4. Gramson (incl. Thymalin)
  5. Benko
  6. Mikey (incl. Thymalin -- 30 x10mg epitalon depending on costs)
  7. Katkay (incl. Thymalin -- US)
  8. DeepBluC (incl. Thymalin -- US)
  9. Brendan1 (incl. Thymalin -- may be interested depending on costs -- US)
  10. DareDevil (incl. Thymalin)
  11. Calm (no Epitalon; only Thymalin 20 x 10 mg  -- Indonesia).

​It seems we will certainly make the 2 grams-mark. If everyone please wants to say how much you want to order, perhaps we can go ahead and contact GenScript by now to see if they can offer a nice price? Meatsauce did you still want to contact GenScript to ask for potential prices and arrange for the group buy, or not? Thanks very much.

 

If I forgot anyone in the group order please let me know.

 

Meatsauce, do you accept payment via Paypal?

 

 



#1693 Gramson

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Posted 09 November 2017 - 01:38 AM

Hard to say quantity without a price, but I am ok with equal quantities of Epitalon and Thymalin for about $400. Less money is better though.

on the dosage question.

I know that bodybuilders do stuff in stages, so that there is no kidney overload.

I just had a physical, and my doctor said I had a lot of protein in my urine, a sign the kidneys are overworked.

 

So, this is probably the reason Khavinson has the regimen stated.

I would suggest taking a kidney/ liver cleanse, like milk thistle,for those of us perhaps doing more than the 10 mg for whatever.... six weeks ?, once a year.

 

I have been taking it regularly until now , since January.



#1694 mikey

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Posted 09 November 2017 - 01:51 AM

Chinese medicine might tend to strengthen kidneys w astragalus and gots kola. It appeared to work for but this purely anecdotal.

#1695 Moondancer

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Posted 09 November 2017 - 02:32 AM

Hard to say quantity without a price, but I am ok with equal quantities of Epitalon and Thymalin for about $400. Less money is better though.

on the dosage question.

I know that bodybuilders do stuff in stages, so that there is no kidney overload.

I just had a physical, and my doctor said I had a lot of protein in my urine, a sign the kidneys are overworked.

 

So, this is probably the reason Khavinson has the regimen stated.

I would suggest taking a kidney/ liver cleanse, like milk thistle,for those of us perhaps doing more than the 10 mg for whatever.... six weeks ?, once a year.

 

I have been taking it regularly until now , since January.

 

 

I'm not necessarily convinced about the 'more is better'-approach. There is no research that supports using higher amounts of Epitalon permanently, or even for weeks or months in a row. There has been research pointing out the detrimental effects of taking certain anti-oxidants that most considered healthy in larger doses for longer amounts of time. Why risk it? We are doing this to obtain health benefits, I assume, but why do some here think that using more is always better? 

I would be worried if I turn out to have a lot of protein in my urine. And this is only one issue that you did find out through a physical, what about other potential issues you may not find out about.



#1696 mikey

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Posted 09 November 2017 - 02:57 AM

 

Hard to say quantity without a price, but I am ok with equal quantities of Epitalon and Thymalin for about $400. Less money is better though.

on the dosage question.

I know that bodybuilders do stuff in stages, so that there is no kidney overload.

I just had a physical, and my doctor said I had a lot of protein in my urine, a sign the kidneys are overworked.

 

So, this is probably the reason Khavinson has the regimen stated.

I would suggest taking a kidney/ liver cleanse, like milk thistle,for those of us perhaps doing more than the 10 mg for whatever.... six weeks ?, once a year.

 

I have been taking it regularly until now , since January.

 

 

I'm not necessarily convinced about the 'more is better'-approach. There is no research that supports using higher amounts of Epitalon permanently, or even for weeks or months in a row. There has been research pointing out the detrimental effects of taking certain anti-oxidants that most considered healthy in larger doses for longer amounts of time. Why risk it? We are doing this to obtain health benefits, I assume, but why do some here think that using more is always better? 

I would be worried if I turn out to have a lot of protein in my urine. And this is only one issue that you did find out through a physical, what about other potential issues you may not find out about.

 

Aren't we promoting the right amount per individual, which can vary considerably? ...Rather than "more is better?"

 

My threshold for feeling the effects of niacin are ~12-standard deviations from normal, so I would never assume that someone else would thrive on some of the high potencies that are regular parts of my regimen.

 

I have made mistakes by being too eager to use high potencies. My body contains too much selenium, which is one metal that no one seems to know how to chelate out of the body. Fortunately, the mild elevation in mercury that I have right now is likely counteracted by selenium's protective effects.
https://www.ncbi.nlm...pubmed/20561558

 

As to worries about toxicity caused by Khavinson's peptides, can anyone provide a study that shows any deleterious effect from any of Khavinson's peptides.

 

I have used Epitalon for about three months once, with Thymulin brought in once.

 

Khavinson did answer a question about it thought:

 

What are the potential side effects of peptides?

All our peptide bioregulators consist of peptides, and peptides consist of amino acids. All of that is part of our food. All of our bioregulators can be find in products – meat, fish, plant based protein food. Note the difference, I do not call our products drugs or food supplements, these are the bioregulators, that is, natural products that take part in the life circulation process. They can be found in all types of food, even plants have peptides. I am often asked about animals such as elephants or cows that consume no meat, yet are huge and healthy. These animals also consume protein and peptides, but the type that can be found in plant based food. Our partners extracted peptides from beetroot, carrots or other vegetables. Peptides, or amino acids, are present everywhere. This is why any side effects are simply impossible, even in theory, as peptides are elements of food. Indeed, if you eat 10 kilograms of strawberries, you might feel sick. The same here: if you eat a kilogram of our bioregulators, you are going to have a protein overload. But this is not a side effect of the product, this is a side effect of one’s recklessness. 

________________________________________

 

Prudence should be the guide!

Michael


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#1697 EdanlosMe

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Posted 09 November 2017 - 12:00 PM

Sorry to chime in late

But I would also be interests in acquiring the Epitalon if possible

Thanks



#1698 Moondancer

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Posted 09 November 2017 - 06:09 PM

Newest update for the group buy of Epitalon (+ Thymalin) (in random order):

 

  1. Meatsauce 
  2. Moondancer (incl.Thymalin)
  3. TaiChiKid (incl. 5 x 100mg Thymalin (if it is the two amino acid version) and 10 x 100mg epitalon -- Canada)
  4. Gramson (incl. Thymalin)
  5. Edanlosme 
  6. Mikey (incl. Thymalin -- 30 x10mg epitalon depending on costs)
  7. Katkay (incl. Thymalin -- US)
  8. DeepBluC (incl. Thymalin -- US)
  9. Brendan1 (incl. Thymalin -- may be interested depending on costs -- US)
  10. DareDevil (incl. Thymalin)
  11. Calm (no Epitalon; only Thymalin -- 2x 100mg -- Indonesia).

​It seems we will certainly make the 2 grams-mark. If everyone please wants to say how much you want to order, perhaps we can go ahead and contact GenScript by now to see if they can offer a nice price?

If I forgot anyone in the group order please let me know.

 

Meatsauce, do you accept payment via Paypal?

 

Edanlosme, would you like to include Thymalin in your order? Do you know already how much Epitalon (and perhaps Thymalin) you would like to order?

 

 


Edited by Moondancer, 09 November 2017 - 06:10 PM.


#1699 Gramson

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Posted 09 November 2017 - 07:32 PM

Khavinson does mention high doses for people that are "critical" , whatever that means.

 

Again, I am saying that anyone that chooses to take more Epitalon than Khavinsons regimen ( it is not "recommended", it is what was done)., should take a kidney cleanse.

 

I choose to do this. I am 73, and VERY healthy. I doubt that any meaningful problems will develop in the time I may be around, but if they do, that is my choice.

 

I also am the last one left in my family, including relatives. My grandfather lost 9 brothers in the Somme in WW1, and the Germans got the women in London in WW2. I am the last one.

 

I also am the only person known to have a certain DNA type, and it is a family marker. When I am gone, that tree is gone too.

 

So, as I said, this is my choice.

as any males in history, including 1700's, lived to be 86, when others were dying in the 50's, this trip should be very interesting.

I have sent in my third TeloYear sample.

I am now 73/47

PS, the warnings are well taken, no problem.

 

 



#1700 aribadabar

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Posted 09 November 2017 - 07:39 PM

Khavinson does mention high doses for people that are "critical" , whatever that means.

 

 

I have sent in my third TeloYear sample.

I am now 73/47

 

 

If I have to venture a guess critical=terminal / in critical condition.

 

So TeloYears got back to you saying that you are 47yrs old biologically based on your telomeres length?



#1701 Moondancer

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Posted 09 November 2017 - 07:39 PM

Sorry but I believe there is reason to doubt the Teloyears tests (and not just the Teloyears test but several telomere tests currently out there). As I mentioned, another Reddit member had marvelous Teloyears results (his Teloyears results also pointed out he was decades younger than he in fact was), but he had sent his results at the same time to Titanova and according to their test results his telomere length was within normal ranges for his current age. Then another member here also had a Teloyears result that showed he was decades younger (<20 years, whereas he was 50 years old) and he didn't use any Epitalon. 

Just to say: I don't think we must take these test results of the current tests available (such as Teloyears and Titanova) as a guideline to decide whether we are healthy and even to draw conclusions about the (relative) state of our telomeres.


Edited by Moondancer, 09 November 2017 - 07:44 PM.


#1702 aribadabar

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Posted 09 November 2017 - 07:47 PM

Sorry but I believe there is reason to doubt the Teloyears tests (and not just the Teloyears test but several telomere tests currently out there). As I mentioned, another Reddit member had marvelous Teloyears results (his Teloyears results also pointed out he was decades younger than he in fact was), but he had sent his results at the same time to Titanova and according to their test results his telomere length was within normal ranges for his current age. Then another member here also had a Teloyears result that showed he was decades younger (<20 years, whereas he was 50 years old) and he didn't use any Epitalon. 

Just to say: I don't think we must take these test results of the current tests available (such as Teloyears and Titanova) as a guideline to decide whether we are healthy and even to draw conclusions about the (relative) state of our telomeres.

 

Agree, if one wants a reliable telomere measurement one needs to shell out quite a bit and send to Repeat Diagnostics or Life Length.

 

These new telomere startups' results can be used for entertainment purposes only, it seems.


Edited by aribadabar, 09 November 2017 - 07:48 PM.

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#1703 Moondancer

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Posted 09 November 2017 - 07:50 PM

I don't mean to downplay your results, Gramson, but I just think a bit of scepticism and realism is necessary, as based on such test results people reading here may think using large doses of something is the cure all and can actually reverse cellular aging. I see a concern in that. 

 

 

Edit to add: "Agree, if one wants a reliable telomere measurement one needs to shell out quite a bit and send to Repeat Diagnostics or Life Length.

These new telomere startups' results can be used for entertainment purposes only, it seems." Aribadabar
 
Actually Aribadabar's advice is much better. It seems the telomere tests of Repeat Diagnostics and Life Length can only be ordered via a physician btw, so you'd have to find a physician willing to participate (Life Length offers to find one for you if you look at their website). How much do these tests cost? I can only find a price of $1000 for a Life Length test but that info is dated early 2015.

Edited by Moondancer, 09 November 2017 - 08:06 PM.


#1704 meatsauce

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Posted 10 November 2017 - 05:53 PM

 

Newest update for the group buy of Epitalon (+ Thymalin) (in random order):

 

  1. Meatsauce 
  2. Moondancer (incl.Thymalin)
  3. TaiChiKid (incl. 5 x 100mg Thymalin (if it is the two amino acid version) and 10 x 100mg epitalon -- Canada)
  4. Gramson (incl. Thymalin)
  5. Benko
  6. Mikey (incl. Thymalin -- 30 x10mg epitalon depending on costs)
  7. Katkay (incl. Thymalin -- US)
  8. DeepBluC (incl. Thymalin -- US)
  9. Brendan1 (incl. Thymalin -- may be interested depending on costs -- US)
  10. DareDevil (incl. Thymalin)
  11. Calm (no Epitalon; only Thymalin 20 x 10 mg  -- Indonesia).

​It seems we will certainly make the 2 grams-mark. If everyone please wants to say how much you want to order, perhaps we can go ahead and contact GenScript by now to see if they can offer a nice price? Meatsauce did you still want to contact GenScript to ask for potential prices and arrange for the group buy, or not? Thanks very much.

 

If I forgot anyone in the group order please let me know.

 

Meatsauce, do you accept payment via Paypal?

 

Yes I will contact them.  And no I can't take paypal right now but I can take venmo or a bank to bank transfer via email that is free.


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#1705 EdanlosMe

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Posted 10 November 2017 - 06:13 PM

Sorry. Cannot participate if PayPal not accepted.



#1706 Gramson

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Posted 10 November 2017 - 07:25 PM

the other telomere tester is no longer in business, and any search for it, is redirected to TeloYears.

These tests are only indicators of telomere length. Telomere length also does not mean one is actually genetically younger, it only means that the indicators say that the TELOMERES are longer.

 

I also did NOT say that I am healthier because my TeloYear test said so. I said I was very healthy. period.

Too many people here are assuming things in my statements.

 

I understand that for many, English is a second language.... but insulting language is a bit much.

 

I am out.


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#1707 aribadabar

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Posted 10 November 2017 - 07:44 PM

the other telomere tester is no longer in business, and any search for it, is redirected to TeloYears.

These tests are only indicators of telomere length. Telomere length also does not mean one is actually genetically younger, it only means that the indicators say that the TELOMERES are longer.

 

I also did NOT say that I am healthier because my TeloYear test said so. I said I was very healthy. period.

Too many people here are assuming things in my statements.

 

I understand that for many, English is a second language.... but insulting language is a bit much.

 

I am not sure if the criticism was directed at me or Moondancer but I certainly meant no insult or disrespect.

 

"Terminal/in critical condition" was my attempt at interpreting Khavison's use of  the term "critical", not that you are in a bad shape.

 

Yes, English is my second language so I may have mis-articulated my question - I meant to simply ask if the TeloYears' test results (73/47) meant that your current telomeres length correspond to those of a 47-year old?

Nothing else has been intended or implied on my part.

 

I certainly appreciate your reports and I apologize if I somehow offended you.


Edited by aribadabar, 10 November 2017 - 07:51 PM.


#1708 Moondancer

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Posted 10 November 2017 - 08:35 PM

His reaction was against me. Although I have no clue why my comment caused such agitation. I apologize if anything I said apparently was interpreted wrong. I just feel it is right to put things into a perspective, I didn't insinuate anything about Gramson with that. I just mentioned anyone can read these posts and jump to conclusions about using substances in large amounts and that I personally believe some caution is warranted - both with regard to results of a test such as a Teloyears test, and with regard to using substances in large amounts when there is no research available to support that. I thought this forum was an open source to be critical and try to discuss research; of course if there is no research available that becomes difficult. But I did not realize it would be taken so personally. 



#1709 Moondancer

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Posted 10 November 2017 - 08:50 PM

In fact, admittedly I too was jumping to conclusions based on Gramson's Teloyears results, and without a doubt presumptuous conclusions. And I can't imagine that I was the only one jumping to conclusions: there are a lot of 'lurkers' here, and we are all spending our pennies on this so I did feel a word of caution with regard to such remarkable test results would not be interpreted as a personal attack. To give an example: I read about a 19 years old injecting large amounts of (what he believed to be) Epitalon after reading such reports online.

 

I felt some caution was warranted, after I started to read more about telomere testing (which is still in its infancy it appears), as well as some reports that test results from different companies differed substantially. As well as reports of others also getting remarkable results from Teloyears that mentioned their telomeres were in the age range of persons decades younger. I am sorry if that was formulated so poorly that it apparently came across as a personal attack.

 

I believe Aribadabar's advice that Life Length may be a more reliable source to get a telomere test was very good. They seem to have a more solid reputation, and in research I see Life Lenght was used to run a telomere test on a few occasions.


Edited by Moondancer, 10 November 2017 - 08:58 PM.


#1710 TaiChiKid

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Posted 11 November 2017 - 12:12 AM

A very reliable source of telomere testing is RepeatDx.com.  They are an offshoot of the Cancer Agency, from which Peter Landsdorp and Michael West did their famous experiment with the six calves.  Dr. Landsdorp is an M.D. PhD in immunology and an expert of isolating telomerase, whcih was one reason he was involved with in the experiment, which made the front cover to Time magazine.  I was luck enough to meet him and ask questions about telomerase and hematopoietic stem cells back in 2000.

 

Unfortunately, RepeatDx.com only accepts blood draws taken by a physician who is at least acquainted with telomere testing.  They take samples from all over the world.

 

If you read the 'NEWS' section of their website, you will see that longer telomeres are associated with an increased chance of lung cancer.


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