1755 replies to this topic

[pleb]

perhaps i should have said medicine manufacturing facilities instead of pharma companies,
,

[Freebytes]

I would be interested in some additional input from people that have tried some of the AGAG that SciWalk gave at no charge a while back. The requirement for his donations was that people would provide their results, but I have yet to see anything from anyone. Who actually received these free doses, and what are your results, regimens, and subjective considerations of the product?

I am not at a point where I can purchase the product; however, I must say that I am concerned about the potential mercury and lead content of substances from labs. Is there any way we can get an analysis of these products to give us an indication of the amount of mercury? I am not sure of the costs of such analysis, but if it is affordable, it is something I would like to see.

[Kevnzworld]

Would it not be safer to take bio identical epithalamin, instead of a synthetic analog? or melatonin ?

" Epitalon reproduces the effects of Epithalamin including those related to its geroprotector activity."

"These effects are combined in the ability of Epithalamin to increase the lifespan in rats, mice, and fruit flies. Many of these effects are reproduced in clinical trials, which have demonstrated the geroprotector activity of Epithalamin in human"

I wonder if epithalamin's results are related to it's ability to increase melatonin production, which has been shown to do similar things.
In the past we have seen the results of other synthetic hormone analogs, and they've not produced the results of the molecules they were designed to mimic, and had unwanted side effects ( cancer ).
Premarin
Progestin
Synthroid

Lastly is the lab in China that is producing Epitalon licensed by Khavinson and the St Petersburg institute for bioregulation and gerontology ? ( the patent holders )

Edited by Kevnzworld, 14 November 2012 - 12:29 AM.

[bocor]

apparently based on this http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/20884126 st udy melatonin upregulates telomerase itleast in eye tissue...
this is intiguing as i thought it was an inhibitor maybe just in tumors

[Logic]

apparently based on this http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/20884126 st udy melatonin upregulates telomerase itleast in eye tissue...
this is intiguing as i thought it was an inhibitor maybe just in tumors

See here:
http://www.anti-agin...inhibit-the-expression-of-telomerase/

Do substances that de-activate telomerase in cancer cells have the opposite effect in healthy cells....?

If anyone has any newer info on supps that suppress telomerase in normal cells; please post!

Edited by Logic, 14 November 2012 - 07:58 AM.

[Logic]

I would be interested in some additional input from people that have tried some of the AGAG that SciWalk gave at no charge a while back. The requirement for his donations was that people would provide their results, but I have yet to see anything from anyone. Who actually received these free doses, and what are your results, regimens, and subjective considerations of the product?

I have a log here:
http://www.longecity...60oo-log-logic/
NB: That I am taking both C60oo and Epitalon at the same time.

But I do agree that the people who got Epitalon for free should be starting their own logs or, at the very least, posting here.

[sciwalk]

Would it not be safer to take bio identical epithalamin, instead of a synthetic analog? or melatonin ?

" Epitalon reproduces the effects of Epithalamin including those related to its geroprotector activity."

"These effects are combined in the ability of Epithalamin to increase the lifespan in rats, mice, and fruit flies. Many of these effects are reproduced in clinical trials, which have demonstrated the geroprotector activity of Epithalamin in human"

I wonder if epithalamin's results are related to it's ability to increase melatonin production, which has been shown to do similar things.
In the past we have seen the results of other synthetic hormone analogs, and they've not produced the results of the molecules they were designed to mimic, and had unwanted side effects ( cancer ).
Premarin
Progestin
Synthroid

Lastly is the lab in China that is producing Epitalon licensed by Khavinson and the St Petersburg institute for bioregulation and gerontology ? ( the patent holders )

Can you please specify precisely what your concern with the tetrapeptide is? You mention that bioidentical might be better then the AGAG but then we are talking about a tetrapeptide here (only 4 amino acids). The validity of improvement between such things in the case of even Progesterone and Estrogen are even still in question. I think it is a viable question and potential route of investigation for production of bioidentical but I don't see that happening unless the demand becomes larger. This is not a complex compound by any means and most certainly is not what I would categorize as a full blown hormone. There is a reason that it is called the sister to Melantonin. Melatonin you buy in the store or online to take as supplement is engineered and produced in the same way as AGAG. If it is just about the quality of the AGAG then all I can say is, each batch is tested with a reverse HPLC to verify purity. If someone has serious concerns despite what I say and what the in house test says, they can most certainly have it independently tested, it would be welcomed.

Khavinson, in his research, was not focused solely on Epithalamin. He was researching all of the substances produced by the pineal gland, including Melatonin. It is just that he found that Epithalamin, alone, had more positive reactions on more things then the others. In fact, it appeared to do, to some extend, what all the others do combined. However, for specific things and treatments, he found that certain combinations worked very well and that is what he has developed some of his treatments around

Khavinson's "patents" are for treatments that include Epitalone which is a name that he also Trade Marked and those Trade Marks and patents of treatment are for a hand full of EU countries. The process and production of Ala-Glu-Asp-Gly itself cannot be patented because it is a combination and process that is done in the making of many other peptides and was done far before he research with the peptide.

I also seriously hope to hear from others soon but I also have heard from some that they are concerned about their information being useless or being ridiculed because they are taking multiple other things along with the AGAG. I hope that they will come forward, good or bad, and I hope that others will not demean their responses.

Once again, I please ask that concerns or questions, with regard to the sales, production, ect... of the peptide be asked to me individually and I will respond as quickly and as well as I can but I prefer that those kinds of things are kept off of here because putting them here, I then have to repsond here which then causes people to think I am again trying to advertise or something. I don't mind at all if people just forget that I ever said I sell it. If someone knows about or has bought it from me before and would like some, contact me, but really lets not keep talking about me selling it or asking me questions about selling it here, OK? And, I will also stop reporting my results as that seems to be a problem for some. I will only continue my info on my trails on my on site.

[smithx]

Would it not be safer to take bio identical epithalamin, instead of a synthetic analog?

Is the structure of this compound online somewhere?

[pleb]

I also had a vial from Sci walk, and will post more when more positive results are visible but to expect miracles after just 4 or 5 weeks is asking a lot,
Sciwalks own post with the photos indicated 4 months for the differences to be clearly seen and a full year from the first photo to the third,
i have noticed small differences but even to me seeing my face in the mirror every day when shaving the differences are less than i noticed when taking C60 before i started Epitalon which i am taking for it's Telomere activation as per the Khavinson papers,
it is also difficult to say which one is doing what when taken in combination,
but from the point of view of perceived results i feel a lot better more like i did energy wise and not feeling tired than i have done for a long time, so i would say they are working well together at least for me,

Edited by pleb, 14 November 2012 - 09:16 PM.

[Logic]

I also had a vial from Sci walk, and will post more when more positive results are visible but to expect miracles after just 4 or 5 weeks is asking a lot,
Sciwalks own post with the photos indicated 4 months for the differences to be clearly seen and a full year from the first photo to the third,
i have noticed small differences but even to me seeing my face in the mirror every day when shaving the differences are less than i noticed when taking C60 before i started Epitalon which i am taking for it's Telomere activation as per the Khavinson papers,
it is also difficult to say which one is doing what when taken in combination,
but from the point of view of perceived results i feel a lot better more like i did energy wise and not feeling tired than i have done for a long time, so i would say they are working well together at least for me,

Thx for posting Pleb.
Could you expand on the physical changes you saw from C60oo and then Epitalon?
Any other changes you noticed? Sleep? Dreaming?

[Logic]

How does this not surprise me !
Quote:
" I decided to become a vested partner in their business" ( sciwalk )

So lets say you were wearing the same shoes...
There you are; looking/tested at a product that will sell by word of mouth. No agressive advertising reqd. (see free samples)

Pessimism is good. But WTF would you do in the same shoes.....................?
Watch trhe boat leave?
Choose who you choose to believe: Those motivated by money, or those motivated by Stalin (et al) saying: "I dont want to die. Do you want to die...?"

[Andey]

How does this not surprise me !
Quote:
" I decided to become a vested partner in their business" ( sciwalk )

So lets say you were wearing the same shoes...
There you are; looking/tested at a product that will sell by word of mouth. No agressive advertising reqd. (see free samples)

Pessimism is good. But WTF would you do in the same shoes.....................?
Watch trhe boat leave?
Choose who you choose to believe: Those motivated by money, or those motivated by Stalin (et al) saying: "I dont want to die. Do you want to die...?"

I think we are digging to deep in Hugos motives and personality in this topic. I think it would be fair if cleans up this topic from such posts (I didnt know is he able to do this)
Everybody can judge for youself about it )

[mikela]

I am on my second vial (50mg) of Epithalon. What I have noticed is that my pre cancerous splotches on my face (too many years of surfing in my youth) are disappearing over time. Normally, I need to go in for LN2 treatments about every 6 months. That never seems to make it completely go away. I take about 4 drops (1mg) every evening before bed. I used to take it in the morning, however, I found myself falling to sleep in the late afternoons. I sleep soundly at night with occasional vivid dreams but mostly very restful sleep. I am able to return to sleep readily if I wake at an odd hour. I do have quite a bit of energy during the day but I am not sure I can directly attribute that to AGAG. I am also taking alcohol based Astragalus; 2 mg in the morning and 2mg in the evening.

Mike

[Freebytes]

Has anyone here that has taken AGAG had any opportunity to examine their own telomeres before and after? Do we have any other anecdotal reports? Lastly, has anyone that has taken it experienced side effects?

I am going to be doing some things with C60oo, but after that, I am likely going to evaluate AGAG. I am trying to be as accurate and objective as possible. It will likely be another few months before I start on it, though, since I am going to start the C60oo later today, and that may last for a month or two before I move onto something else.

[Kevnzworld]

Has anyone here that has taken AGAG had any opportunity to examine their own telomeres before and after? Do we have any other anecdotal reports? Lastly, has anyone that has taken it experienced side effects?

I am going to be doing some things with C60oo, but after that, I am likely going to evaluate AGAG. I am trying to be as accurate and objective as possible. It will likely be another few months before I start on it, though, since I am going to start the C60oo later today, and that may last for a month or two before I move onto something else.

If C60, TA-65 ,Epitalon or anything else for that matter could actually extend healthy lifespan it wouldn't become apparent from short term supplementation. Many of the people on the C60 health thread who have been looking at this subject have gravitated to lower and intermittent dosing ( including me ). Until new and better studies are done, taking any of these things for life extension purposes remains a leap of faith.

[Logic]

How does this not surprise me !
Quote:
" I decided to become a vested partner in their business" ( sciwalk )

So lets say you were wearing the same shoes...
There you are; looking/tested at a product that will sell by word of mouth. No agressive advertising reqd. (see free samples)

Pessimism is good. But WTF would you do in the same shoes.....................?
Watch trhe boat leave?
Choose who you choose to believe: Those motivated by money, or those motivated by Stalin (et al) saying: "I dont want to die. Do you want to die...?"

I think we are digging to deep in Hugos motives and personality in this topic. I think it would be fair if cleans up this topic from such posts (I didnt know is he able to do this)
Everybody can judge for youself about it )

You miss understand me Andy; Hugo wanted to turn back the clock some and after going to a lot of trouble decided to reduce costs and perhaps make a little money in the process IMHO. All good...

Edited by Logic, 10 December 2012 - 02:37 PM.

[pleb]

Does anyone have any idea how long this stays active after it has been reconstituted with water and wine in the vial, is there a time limit before it becomes unusable,

Edited by pleb, 12 December 2012 - 10:05 AM.

[sciwalk]

What causes it to loose potency is via degradation through bacterial destruction. Bacteria loves protein. That is why you mix it with sterilized water and wine. There will be less chance of bacteria in distilled water and after mix with the wine you will have around a 5% alcohol content which again helps in stopping bacterial growth. I know that sounds kind of scary and a bit disgusting but do keep in mind that bacteria is literally every where. You would freak out if you knew how much bacteria is on your steak or in a glass of milk. This is not anything you need to worry about but is what eventually will break down the peptide. The alcohol will eventually give way and the peptide will start to break down after 60 days. We recommend that you try to use it up within 45 days but to be honest we have tested it with distilled water and 5% alcohol out to 90 days and still was at 87% purity.

[pleb]

Hi Hugo Thanks, i did know what the wine was for from reading about HGH which is reconstituted similarly,

but i had no idea about it's shelf life, after reconstitution, I'm about 45 days into my third vial after starting taking it alternative days,

it's still crystal clear in my fridge which is pretty cold so presumably still okay,

Edited by pleb, 12 December 2012 - 01:16 PM.

[sciwalk]

Good, yes, if you were to see any cloudiness then you know it is game over.
Sorry about the long explanation but I could not presume what you do or do not know, plus, good idea to put that information up for others that may not know.
That and the fact that I tend to ramble when I type.

[pleb]

Hi Hugo, Thanks don't worry about the rambling it was informative,

i think any other information on it's extending Telomere length would have to come from the Russian Papers published
apart from the one that I've seen it would be interesting to see what Prof Khavinson would suggest and his thoughts on dosing,

[niner]

Instead of using wine, what about using grain alcohol? That would introduce a lot less impurities than wine would, if all you're looking for is a bacteriostatic solution. There are other degradation modes for peptides besides bacterial contamination; generally, the more pure the solution, the longer it will stand up to these chemical modes of attack. I'd keep it cool and dark, too.

[pleb]

i don't think it is available over this side of the pond, i have read about people bringing it in from the states and having it confiscated by customs as its not allowed to be imported if its over 90%
but if any UK poster knows where it can be obtained over here please advise

Edited by pleb, 13 December 2012 - 09:35 PM.

[daouda]

What about Sake or Vodka? Less impurities than wine, closer to ethanol while still being drinkable?

[Dreamer]

I use vodka.

[sciwalk]

Any kind of drinkable alcohol will work but just keep in mind that you want, after mixing, the alcohol content to be between 4 to 10%. Optimal is 7%. The peptide is 100% water soluable and that is why you first want to mix with the water. After, add the alcohol to stave off degridation. I recommended table wine because it is generally between 8 to 18% alcohol. Then mixing 50/50 with the water will put you in the correct range (just want to simplify for people). If you want to use a higher grade alcohol, that is fine, but just make sure that you are adding more water as needed to bring the total alcohol content down as close as you can to 7%. If you go under 4% it will not help that much and the peptide will degrade faster. If you go over 10% then the peptide will start clumping together.
The peptide, in raw form, should be kept in the freezer.
Once a vial has been mixed, it should be kept in the refrigerator, so, yes, cold and dark.
The tests we ran on longevity of peptide was done with a wide range of alcohol contents, from as low as what you find in bacterostatic water (often around .10%) up to a full grain alcohol at 70%. We took each vial in and out of the fridge every day for a period of time to replicate normal use and tested the purity at 2 weeks, 4 weeks, 6 weeks, 8 weeks, 10 weeks, 12 weeks and then at 24 weeks. Based on those findings is why we proposed, to simplify things for most people, adding 50% sterile water, then adding 50% table wine to get you near to 7% and allowing the peptide to last at a full >98% for 45 days +.

[Kevnzworld]

I found this review of Epitalon , and a synthetic thymus molecule they produce. It's an interesting read for those that want an overview of the science as seen by Anisimov and Khavinson .

http://books.google....smutase&f=false

[sciwalk]

I found this review of Epitalon , and a synthetic thymus molecule they produce. It's an interesting read for those that want an overview of the science as seen by Anisimov and Khavinson .

http://books.google....smutase&f=false

Fantastic, thanks. That is like a synopsis of most of, and more, the articles I have found.

Edited by sciwalk, 15 December 2012 - 05:58 AM.

[hav]

I've been taking roughly a 6 month time-out from epithalon and will resume with the new year. I only took it around 3 months at a 5 mg dose between March and June cycled 3 weeks on followed by 1 week off. I think this time I'll do it every other week taking it on weeks I take astragalus extract. Btw, I just reordered 1 gram from Genscript and the cost was around 1/2 what they charged me last February. COA indicates purity of 98.2% this time.

Howard

Edited by hav, 19 December 2012 - 10:19 PM.

[niner]

I've been taking roughly a 6 month time-out from epithalon and will resume with the new year. I only took it around 3 months at a 5 mg dose between March and June cycled 3 weeks on followed by 1 week off. I think this time I'll do it every other week taking it on weeks I take astragalus extract. Btw, I just reordered 1 gram from Genscript and the cost was around 1/2 what they charged me last February. COA indicates purity of 98.2% this time.

Thanks for the info Howard. The price is starting to get reasonable- that's nice. Although you only dosed for 3 months, given the six month time span, I'm curious- Are you noticing anything that you could ascribe to the use of epitalon? What's your take on it, at this point?