1755 replies to this topic

[pleb]

So, I could take a 50mg vile and mix the contents into 12.5ml of distilled water and 12.5ml of 14 proof wine coming to 2mg/ml... If I take 2mg/ml a day this will last for 25 days... just under a month... So one would not have to worry about the Epitalon losing it's potency as long as it is kept in the fridge. Is this a sound methodology?

Mine will arrive today... Four 50mg viles

no thats to much wine it needs to be about 7 percent alcohol, try 20 mlt of water and 10 mlt of wine that should last a little bit longer nearer the full month,
or 25ml of water and 12 ml of wine as i've just seen you mention 50mlg vials, its okay for a lot longer than the 4 weeks mentioned in the fridge i had some of sciwalks and it was still good after 3 months before it started getting cloudy,

Edited by pleb, 23 July 2013 - 05:42 PM.

[Methos000]

Thanks Methos. I'm glad I asked. Its being shipped as we speak I have a milligram scale which is accurate. I've been using it to measure sunifiram and noopept and everything Is fine with that. So epitalon gets clumpy, It is probably absorbing moisture out of the air. Since according to sciwalk it loses some potency toward the end of 3 months. I will make an amount for 1 month, maybe 5*30 = 150 mg (wow my 500mg wont last long like that) and mix with maybe X-ml of water. I was thinking bacteriostatic water. So I have to figure out X so that my dose will be .1 ml which is the main graduation on the oral syringe and easy to measure. What was the wine for then?

The wine was added for the antibacterial effect of the ethanol.

[pleb]

if your using bac water you don't need the wine only if your sterilising your own tap water,,its for the reason methos says

[solarfingers]

no thats to much wine it needs to be about 7 percent alcohol, try 20 mlt of water and 10 mlt of wine that should last a little bit longer nearer the full month,
or 25ml of water and 12 ml of wine as i've just seen you mention 50mlg vials, its okay for a lot longer than the 4 weeks mentioned in the fridge i had some of sciwalks and it was still good after 3 months before it started getting cloudy,

Understood, so the final liquid should only contain ~7% alcohol. If the wine were 14 proof then a 50/50 mixture with water should come to 7%. I don't drink and perhaps 14 proof isn't very standard but I think I understand the principle. Thank you...

[pleb]

you will have to see what the alcohol percentage is, proof is the amount of alcohol that will burn with a steady flame and is not the same, normally for white wine its about 16 to 20 percent so about 1/3 rd wine to 2/3rds water,

[solarfingers]

Thank you... I did not know the difference. A new wrinkle on the brain today. Thanks!

[pleb]

i found that out when i was in Oz many years ago , in Queensland they sell locally made rum, its known as OP (over proof) and can go as high as 160 proof , you don't need a lot of this to see pink elephants :>)

[Methos000]

no thats to much wine it needs to be about 7 percent alcohol, try 20 mlt of water and 10 mlt of wine that should last a little bit longer nearer the full month,
or 25ml of water and 12 ml of wine as i've just seen you mention 50mlg vials, its okay for a lot longer than the 4 weeks mentioned in the fridge i had some of sciwalks and it was still good after 3 months before it started getting cloudy,

Understood, so the final liquid should only contain ~7% alcohol. If the wine were 14 proof then a 50/50 mixture with water should come to 7%. I don't drink and perhaps 14 proof isn't very standard but I think I understand the principle. Thank you...

Your mixture would only be about 3.5% alcohol. You would need 28 proof wine to get 7% after mixing 50/50 with water.

[hav]

390.35 sounds closer to the average but at lease we a concensus that there are reasons for the variance and that it is likely not significant. Have you noticed any results from epitalon. What dosage are you working with? Are you doing anything else to supplement it? I got some milk-thistle which is cheap, some product b, which is expensive and some other stuff. Maybe they will be synergistic, probably won't hurt. I might stop other related supps. when I get my epitalon.

I cannot conclude for myself that the variances between synthetic epithalon and the pineal peptide preparation epithalamin are insignificant enough to assume they have identical in vivo effects, particularly with regard to telomere lengthening. The fact that they lipidized the pineal extract may be very significant to their study results. The epithalon we're taking is dissolved in water. This epithalon/melatonin mouse study Klavinson did in 2005 might have discouraged him from ever more closely duplicating his earlier 2004 epithalamin pineal extract mouse study using epithalon instead:

Effect of epitalon and melatonin on life span and spontaneous carcinogenesis in senescence accelerated mice (SAM)

But epithalon seems to have nice enough other in vivo effects to make it worth it to me to continuing using it. This wiki isn't complete or up to date but it does nicely summarize 22 epithalon related studies up to 2006. And the in vitro teleomere effect at least suggests it might be synergistic with astragalus extract so I stack them together every other week.

Howard

[1todd960]

I'm more confused after reading these latest posts on how to reconstitute the Epitalon then I ever was.

I still have this copied from HUGO on this subject.

"4 drops per mg
Any kind of drinkable alcohol will work but just keep in mind that you want,
after mixing, the alcohol content to be between 4 to 10%. Optimal is 7%.
The peptide is 100% water soluable and that is why you first want to mix with the water.
After, add the alcohol to stave off degridation. I recommended table wine because it
is generally between 8 to 18% alcohol. Then mixing 50/50 with the water will put you
in the correct range (just want to simplify for people). If you want to use a higher
grade alcohol, that is fine, but just make sure that you are adding more water as needed
to bring the total alcohol content down as close as you can to 7%. If you go under 4%
it will not help that much and the peptide will degrade faster.
If you go over 10% then the peptide will start clumping together.
adding 50% sterile water, then adding 50% table wine to get you near to 7% and allowing
the peptide to last at a full >98%
for 45 days +."

And this:

"You remove the metal ring and cap.
Add 50% distilled (purified) water, replace the white cap and roll to dissolve all the peptide.
Remove the white cap again and add 50% wine.
Put the silicone dropper top on and roll again to mix the water and wine.
Remove the white top of the silicone dropper, turn the bottle upside down and squeeze
the silicone dropper to release drops under your tongue.
I suggest to mix the water to the 100 drop mark and then up to the 200 drop mark with
wine. This will cause each drop to be .25mg."

Although I don't think we have the dropper or the 100/200 mark on our bottles do we.

Edited by 1todd960, 23 July 2013 - 08:50 PM.

[diogenes]

^{amesz::Regarding your Post #595 (SuperNutrition's Epitalon tablet), this is the first time I have seen an Epitalon product in tablet form. I suppose we don't know yet if Epitalon in tablet form will be as effective as the product in vials the users in this thread have been obtaining. No doubt, however, from the many questions regarding storage and reconstitution of the liquid form that a tablet--if effective--would be greatly more convenient. Thanks for bringing this (new?) development to our attention.}

[researchist]

Very good information 1todd960. I have 500 mg epitalon 99.8% pure AEDG I got today. It comes in a tiny vial with a stopper. I tapped the vial on the table to get the product off of the walls of the vial. I took a milligram spoon and measured out 4 mg on a milligram scale and administered it to the mouse sublingually then refrigerated it. That's a little more than is recommended for the mouse but it is supposed to be nontoxic. The mouse reported an unusual taste. That is probably not good lab practice. Where do you get droppers like you describe. I understand that the method I just described will not work because taking the product in and out of the refrigerator will make it sludgy but something like sunifiram it seems to work fine. I guess it is AEDG is hydrophilic or something. So what is it recommended I do with 500mg in one container. Depending on how much is administered it will last up to 500 days but it wont keep that long from what I hear. I was thinking about 5mg which would be 100 days. I could make 2 batches which would each be 50 days, a few more than the 45 days before it starts degrading using the wine and water technique you describe. Maybe it should be bought in subcontainers of an appropriate size for reconstitution so that the rest can be frozen.

[solarfingers]

Very good information 1todd960. I have 500 mg epitalon 99.8% pure AEDG I got today. It comes in a tiny vial with a stopper. I tapped the vial on the table to get the product off of the walls of the vial. I took a milligram spoon and measured out 4 mg on a milligram scale and administered it to the mouse sublingually then refrigerated it.

What did the 1 milligram spoon fulls actually weigh as? Is there enough room to pour water/wine into the vile directly? Mine is waiting at home for me... Have you perceived any effects as of yet?

[1todd960]

I would think you should somehow figure out how to break that 500mg into 50 or 100mg vials. From what I understand our group order is coming in just that, 50 or 100mg. That way you can mix up 50 or 100mg at a time and keep the rest in the freezer until needed.

[solarfingers]

I would think you should somehow figure out how to break that 500mg into 50 or 100mg vials. From what I understand our group order is coming in just that, 50 or 100mg. That way you can mix up 50 or 100mg at a time and keep the rest in the freezer until needed.

Note: When ordering you can request it be broken up into a total of 5 vials with no extra cost.

Yes, we could aliquot 4 vials for you. Please find the updated order summary. And when you quote online, you could choose the desired vials if you want. By the way, we could provide you 5 vials free of charge, if you want more, we will add $2/vial for the excess.

[researchist]

It is a tiny, tiny spoon. It is hard to get a milligram out of it because it likes stuck to the spoon. Its plastic, there could be some kind of charge that makes a little bit want to stay in the spoon.. 2 milligrams is kind of overflowing but you have to tap it to get it off the spoon. If the spoon was all you had you could be pretty sure you had 1 or 2 grams on it. That's a very small amount of stuff to judge by the naked eye and different things have different specific gravities. Really putting it into a known volume of solution probably achieves a greater accuracy more easily. It is very handy though. I'm not sure whether the vial will hold a milliliter or maybe slightly more. It cant be used as a mixing container. I will have to carefully fill it with a known amount of liquid and dissolve what will dissolve then fill it again with I'm thinking a milliliter at a time and then putting them into a mixing vial of some kind. That's if I want to get every molecule out. Or I could figure out how much to mix in a batch and weigh it out carefully and put the rest in the freezer. It would seem like to soon to expect to feel any results.. That's what I think so I would qualify any thing I did feel as being subjective. I did notice I felt clear headed and kind of energetic but that is not too unusual. I would say its too early to report on effects.

How much did the group order end up costing per gram? Its still fairly expensive to order like this.

[solarfingers]

Really putting it into a known volume of solution probably achieves a greater accuracy more easily. It is very handy though. I'm not sure whether the vial will hold a milliliter or maybe slightly more. It cant be used as a mixing container. I will have to carefully fill it with a known amount of liquid and dissolve what will dissolve then fill it again with I'm thinking a milliliter at a time and then putting them into a mixing vial of some kind. That's if I want to get every molecule out. Or I could figure out how much to mix in a batch and weigh it out carefully and put the rest in the freezer...

How much did the group order end up costing per gram? Its still fairly expensive to order like this.

That sounds like a very reasonable approach. I did not participate in the group order but purchased 200 mg @ 98% purity. The total bill was Total: $180.49 after a discount of $51.80 US...

[1todd960]

one ML is a extremely small amount. I have injection needles that are 1/2 CC which is 1/2 ml.

[researchist]

Here is something to ponder. What other peptides are out there with structures that are publically available and are life extenders or nootropic or both. The more complex chemicals are hard to get produced but synthesizing peptides seems not be very difficult or expensive.. ..

[researchist]

Its a very small vial. It might hold 2 ml. Its hard to judge. I do not have a tiny ruler to measure its dimensions. It may be big enough to dissolve everything in but it is not much larger than it has to be. It is slightly over 2/3 full of powder too.

[Dreamer]

The group order was $253/gram plus shipping, aliquoted to 100mg, >98% purity. Add $20/gram to aliquote to 50gm.

I have been using AEDG/AGAG for about a year. It comes in 50mg vials and has a dropper top for ease of use.

I mix with distilled water until fully dissolved, add some alcohol to about 7~%. My wife takes 4 drops, about 1mg and I take 12 drops, about 3mg, daily before bedtime, sublingually. I also take melatonin. We keep it in the fridge and only remove to use. There does not appear to be any degradation during the life of the mixed vial, at least visually.

The unopened unmixed vials are kept in the freezer and since the shelf life is supposed to be at least a year in the freezer, there appears to be no problem and we have not noticed any sign of deterioration.

I suggest mixing up 50mg or 100mg at a time, depending on how aliquoted and your usage as well as your ability to accurately measure and handle efficiently. It does not have to be mixed at the rate of 4 drops per mg, could be 2 drops per mg, whatever you want.

A simple dropper bottle will suffice. One can count out the appropriate number of drops and mark the bottle for simplicity, add the AEDG, then water, then alcohol (if used). When mixing the AEDG with the water, swirl gently until fully dissolved and go from there. A clear bottle will be easier to see the mixed solution. Keep the unmixed AEDG in the freezer and the mixed in the fridge and you should have little to no problem, IMHO.

On the Epitalon pills, I would want to know the rate of degradation since the product apparently is not refrigerated (to my knowledge) and is open to the air. I think I prefer the way we have been doing it and that the product will stay fresher.

As far as convenience is concerned, it only takes a few minutes to mix up 50mg that lasts us12 days or so at our rate of usage and takes no more effort than that of a pill.

[researchist]

Thanks for the advice, dreamer. With you and your wife having taken AEDG for a year what do you 2 think of it?

[researchist]

I would be interested in whether people who have experience with epitalon have a irrefutable sense that it is doing something good for them, evidence that is compelling that it is effective. I'm good with taking something which a lot of research tells me will benefit me. I understand how it will help me so I take it. I don't need to see overnight results. My experience with vitamins and herbs and such is that I don't have any stories to tell on what it has done for me but I have studied them and as I learned something new I have tried to adjust and add or subtract from what I take. I have not been obsessive about it but I have been conscientious. Mostly things that are beneficial work gradually and the fact that there is nothing to report is probably good, especially if your not sick. That nothing bad is happening in your body is good evidence. I don't expect anything to fix me overnight but there still could be something that could. I think we will discover things like that. Maybe epitalon is like that. I find it interesting that the Chinese have taken astragalus for thousands of years for what? longevity. I don't think that is a coincidence. I wonder what way of preparing it made the concentration of cyclo-astragenol strong enough that they could see results fast enough that could report that it increases longevity. They say this and that about all of their herbal medicine but it turns out that there is a chemical in astragalus which in sufficient concentration increases lifespan of lab animals. There are a lot of Chinese herbs that increase ngf by the way.

[Dreamer]

We both sleep well (except when she worries), probably better than before we started using the AEDG. We are both in good health, at least as far as we know since neither of us uses a physician or mainstream medicine and have not for decades since I sold my businesses and did not need to cover employees.

I am 72, she is a young beautiful 66 and we have been married for 39 years. We carry no health insurance because we would not use it since we do not use MSM except for trauma and would consider it for diagnosis if we felt it would be advantageous for us to do so. We can and will pay for what we need and do not "need" insurance to cover us. We use nutrition including supplements and alternative protocols.

We have noticed no adverse effects from using AEDG. We aren't trying to "cure" anything. We just want to stay as healthy and active as possible and if possible, at the same time, increase our lifespans.

We have both maintained active lifestyles and wish to continue to do so. I feel it is beneficial and we will continue to use AEDG as long as we feel it is helping and not hurting us.

[researchist]

That is good story Dreamer!

[solarfingers]

Dreamer, has there been a particular improvement anywhere or have you been mostly just cruising? How long have the two of you been taking Epitalon?

Thanks...

[researchist]

http://epitalon.net/...epithalone.html I think most people would read this link and say that pages like this read like a hustle, Change the product and it would still read like a hustle. It is the way they are presenting it. But the research is there and says it is legitimate. There are reasons why it could be that good. But why do they present it this way. Most people would not believe it. I wonder if the testimonials are real or exaggerated. They kind of sound exaggerated even though this stuff is good but that good. Maybe they are taking a lot. More than 3mg. Maybe 8 mg. Maybe its more effective at higher dosages. Not everything is but some things are. This is page is ultimately connected to bioluma and what there motives are is anyones guess, it hardly even seems to be to make money. They seem like they just want to control the thing. They only release a certain amount to each country in the world so no country gets more than another. They wont give the US any. They told me if I had a friend in Europe they would sell to them and they could ship it to me. They charge a fortune for it.

[Dreamer]

I have been a "student" of alternative medicine and nutrition for almost 50 years since an eye-opening experience of a friend being cured of lung cancer by a naturopath using nutrition only. Of course, back then, to do "research" one had to go to the library and read a LOT of books and magazines.

Since the internet of about 20 years or so ago, this "research" is soooo much faster, but not necessarily easier since so much information, good and bad, is out there and one has to sift through it all.

We have found that as we age, we have encountered various "ailments" and "warnings" which we research and work on using nutrition, lifestyle changes, supplements and various alternative protocols.

It's amazing how we can live with "conditions" that are simply a nuisance and then realize that a condition is developing so we should try to do something about it. MSM will never help with these things, some of which are early warnings.

We have found that there is so much one has to learn and understand in order to take action and then adjust for results.

It is difficult to single out what is effective, so we try, and listen to our bodies, and make adjustments, keep what we believe is working, add, delete, research and keep on with life. We are each different so we have to adjust for ourselves.

Do we believe the AEDG/AGAG is beneficial after using it for a year? Yes and we will continue to use it for the foreseeable future.

We feel we have a good program as of now and will continue with the things we are doing. As and if we experience other concerns or challenges, we will try other things as our research indicates and go from there. Could we do this with MSM? No and we don't do drugs, legal or otherwise.

We are presently working on de-calcification throughout our bodies, one of the biggest challenges of all of us, to prevent, but especially to reverse. Seems to be working so we shall continue and try to improve.

In the meantime, we hope the AEDG will increase the life of our cells via elongation of the telomeres.

[solarfingers]

I have been a "student" of alternative medicine and nutrition for almost 50 years since an eye-opening experience of a friend being cured of lung cancer by a naturopath using nutrition only. Of course, back then, to do "research" one had to go to the library and read a LOT of books and magazines.

Since the internet of about 20 years or so ago, this "research" is soooo much faster, but not necessarily easier since so much information, good and bad, is out there and one has to sift through it all.

We have found that as we age, we have encountered various "ailments" and "warnings" which we research and work on using nutrition, lifestyle changes, supplements and various alternative protocols.

Dreamer, you are a true inspiration. Thank you...

[researchist]

Great elaboration on your experiences Dreamer. You mention MSM. Are you referring to Methylsulfonylmethane. Do you have negative experiences with that. It is not something I have gotten into but it is an alternative treatment that has been around for a long time..

Yes and thanks also Dreamer!