1755 replies to this topic

[1todd960]

That's what I was thinking. It must be a much more heavier type of peptide compared to my white fluffy peptide.

I have 500mg in the same bottle and it could well be about 10 times more than what your showing there. It might reach almost to the top of nut but not all the way. Its under half full but more than 1/3. Loosely it looks almost reasonable relative to what I have. Yours may be a little short but comparing it I think its probably ok. The company is pretty good, I would not expect them to underdeliver. These are very small molecules probably are denser depending on what kind of peptide that is. Some of them are very complex this is very simple. I think it is the density but there are a couple of guys there Sciwalk and Scienceguy who would be able to answer that more scientifically.

Here is my comparison of the Epitalon 100mg and some peptide i have that's 2mg. Both sitting next to a pistachio for reference.......lol

Notice how 100mg of Epitalon is barely visible. How do you guys plan on measuring that by hand? Group buy is still better just because of the price.

I did not participate in the group buy but bought it myself allocated to 50mg viles. So, I am only mixing 50mg at a time... How much did you get and for what price in the group buy?

I bought 1 gm at approx $230-240. Not even sure anymore. Not a bad price at all considering it should last about a year.

[solarfingers]

That is a good price considering 200mg cost me $207. I'll hope there will be another group buy in three months when I'm ready to order again...

[smithx]

That $27 scale may work ok for very small amounts. I got the one I linked because I also weigh larger amounts, 5 or 10 gm at a time.

The thing is, if you want 1mg accuracy it's unlikely you'll get it in a really cheap scale. That Sartorius has compensation for things like table shake, air movement, etc. You can set different modes to deal with those things.

So it all depends on what your budget is and how accurate you want to be. For even better speed and accuracy you have to go to the next level, starting at $650 or so for an electromagnetic rather than a strain gauge balance.

Edited by smithx, 03 August 2013 - 03:38 AM.

[solarfingers]

That $27 scale may work ok for very small amounts. I got the one I linked because I also weigh larger amounts, 5 or 10 gm at a time.

Yours is a great scale...

[hav]

I started with the same $27 scale and the accuracy was quite good. But when I started mixing for 48 caps at a time the weight limit was constraining when I needed to use a small plastic cup to hold the powders. I then upgraded to the $100 model with a 50 gram limit with similar accuracy which also can use ac power which I prefer to batteries. But for larger capacity I recently picked up a 200 gram limit scale with .001 gram resolution branded by Nevada Weighing Tree (HRB203) for $280. The same scale is also marketed under the Amston (HRB203) and Zieis (ZHRS203) brand names. I use that one primarily for weighing things dissolved in oils.

Howard

[JASOG888]

08/01/13 Took 100mg Epitalon(obtained from this recent group buy), dissolved it in minimal sterile WFI, passed it through a 0.1um sterile syringe filter into a sterile vial and passed more sterile WFI through the filter into the vial to obtain a final volume of approx 3.4ml. Withdrew this into 3 separate syringes. 2 will be stored in the freezer as sciwalk had previously described. Using sub-q at 0.1ml (approx 3mg)/day before bed. Also started 1ml of C60OO daily.

[solarfingers]

08/01/13 Took 100mg Epitalon(obtained from this recent group buy), dissolved it in minimal sterile WFI, passed it through a 0.1um sterile syringe filter into a sterile vial and passed more sterile WFI through the filter into the vial to obtain a final volume of approx 3.4ml. Withdrew this into 3 separate syringes. 2 will be stored in the freezer as sciwalk had previously described. Using sub-q at 0.1ml (approx 3mg)/day before bed. Also started 1ml of C60OO daily.

What is the point of the filter?

[randomname]

would it be fine to mix melanotan & epitalon in the same syringe for subq injection?

[JASOG888]

08/01/13 Took 100mg Epitalon(obtained from this recent group buy), dissolved it in minimal sterile WFI, passed it through a 0.1um sterile syringe filter into a sterile vial and passed more sterile WFI through the filter into the vial to obtain a final volume of approx 3.4ml. Withdrew this into 3 separate syringes. 2 will be stored in the freezer as sciwalk had previously described. Using sub-q at 0.1ml (approx 3mg)/day before bed. Also started 1ml of C60OO daily.

What is the point of the filter?

There were a few "floaties" or undissolved "particles" left in the solution after dissolving the peptide. I had bought some filters for something else and had not used them and this seemed like a good time.

[Authentic]

Fortunately I am not in the USA so I don't have FDA issues in obtaining Epitalon. I had a peptide lab make me enough Epitalon for a true self-experiment. It's 98% pure and in 5mg multi-use vials. My plan has been to reconstitute the peptide with 1ml of Bacteriostatic water and then inject .05ml of Epitalon once per day subQ.

Today is day 3 of my experiment thus far. What I've found is a general feeling of tiredness and somewhat "out of it". I imagine this is from increased Melatonin. I tried taking it at night just before sleep - that night I had some of the wildest dreams of my life. At one point I dreamed that I was sleeping. Note that I normally use Sermorelin every night at bedtime and I don't know how the 2 peptides will react together so I decided to try using the Epitalon during the day instead. I also though I'd tried taking it during the day so that I could have a more normal sleep pattern. However it really makes me sleepy.

If anyone knows any dosage guidelines or theories I'd really like to hear them. I don't know if this is a once-per-week peptide or a daily one. Maybe I'm using too little or too much.

Thanks in advance!

[jabowery]

...Today is day 3 of my experiment thus far. What I've found is a general feeling of tiredness and somewhat "out of it". I imagine this is from increased Melatonin. I tried taking it at night just before sleep - that night I had some of the wildest dreams of my life. At one point I dreamed that I was sleeping. Note that I normally use Sermorelin every night at bedtime and I don't know how the 2 peptides will react together so I decided to try using the Epitalon during the day instead. I also though I'd tried taking it during the day so that I could have a more normal sleep pattern. However it really makes me sleepy....

A device that would be useful for monitoring effects* on sleep is the Zeo Sleep Manager -- which can tell you how much, critical, stage 4 sleep you're getting:

http://www.amazon.co...o/dp/B008I20LJ2

Please understand that I am in no way connected with this company -- I own one of these and find it useful in monitoring the effects of various foods, activities, drugs, etc. on my stage 4 sleep.

For those of you not familiar with stage 4 sleep: It is the deepest stage of sleep, during which human growth hormone production is greatest.

*All monitoring protocols should be started before you begin any sort of treatment so you can establish a baseline.

Edited by jabowery, 03 August 2013 - 11:54 PM.

[Authentic]

In my experiments with GHRH and GHRP peptides I used bi-annual blood tests to verify that my GH levels were "high". If you don't mind sharing a bit - how would this device further help me in my experiments. Am I looking to increase stage 4 for other health benefits?

I also take a 5mg Melatonin sublingual each night which may also conflict with the Epitalon. I noticed someone above said they had "floaters" in their reconstituted solution. Those should go away within a few hours. If they don't, I'd be concerned about the quality of your peptide OR maybe you are not using enough Bac water to recon. I am able to recon the 5mg vials of Epitalon with 1ml of Bac water, without any floaters (takes a few hours to fully dissolve though - never ever shake or agitate please).

[Authentic]

I just read this Amazon review about Zeo. Sounds like we'll need to find a replacement device;

According to the BBB, Zeo, Inc has gone out of business[...]
(Via internet research) I called a company that recently invested in Zeo Inc, to confirm. They confirmed that it has gone out of business. They said it is possible that the product will be bought and sold again to consumers by another company.

In the meantime, there is no customer support for repairs, apps, replacements, etc.

The investor was very kind to give me one of his extra Zeos when I told him about my problem. It sounds like he only has a couple, so this is not a long term solution for Zeo users.

I'm still giving this product two stars because it was a great product, but I recommend that you DO NOT BUY IT, as many users seem to need technical support, and it is no longer available. Also many of the web features are no longer available, and from talking to the investor it sounds like there will be little to no web support at some point in the future.

[jabowery]

In my experiments with GHRH and GHRP peptides I used bi-annual blood tests to verify that my GH levels were "high". If you don't mind sharing a bit - how would this device further help me in my experiments. Am I looking to increase stage 4 for other health benefits?

I don't know of any sleep deprivation studies that specifically targeted stage 4 sleep.

However, it is clear that stage 4 is the first to go with aging -- rendering its association with HGH intriguing to say the least.

[researchist]

Just a thought. I have not looked into it but I would think that a subcutaneous injection would likely get more epitalon into your system than swallowing or sublingual would. Which might have dosage implications. I don't think you need to worry about taking too much but stimulating melatonin or not I'm a little surprised it would make someone tired. The zeo is great that is too bad but there will be more and more cool stuff like that coming down the road in the future. I want to look into whether subq would affect dosage. It seems like for those who don't mind needles. they would get more active chemical per milligram, so they could reduce it to maybe less than what is normally ingested or just benefit from the increased availability from the dosage they are taking. But I could be wrong.

[sciwalk]

I have seen the container and the look of the peptide from the, "Group Buy". I highly recommend that you do not inject that peptide.

[meatsauce]

I have seen the container and the look of the peptide from the, "Group Buy". I highly recommend that you do not inject that peptide.

Really? Do you think the quality is not good?

[sciwalk]

I will not go into the, "quality issue" at this time. I just want to point out the obvious and make a sound warning to any who are thinking of injecting that peptide, do not do it. That is not an air tight, injectable vial and must be opened to the air in order to mix and load a syringe. Risk of contamination is high. Genscript should give you the same advice, if they do not, well................ Do not inject that peptide, I will leave it at that.

[1todd960]

I will not go into the, "quality issue" at this time. I just want to point out the obvious and make a sound warning to any who are thinking of injecting that peptide, do not do it. That is not an air tight, injectable vial and must be opened to the air in order to mix and load a syringe. Risk of contamination is high. Genscript should give you the same advice, if they do not, well................ Do not inject that peptide, I will leave it at that.

I agree. There is at least one company online where you can buy injectable Epitalon. It's the typical white peptide that reconstitutes easily. But it's very expensive. About $35 per MG. I tried it for a couple weeks and decided I prefer something of higher quality that doesn't have to be injected. And much cheaper.

[Authentic]

You can contract with a quality ISO9001 peptide manufacturer (NOT IN CHINA, geez) to get the cost much much lower than that for a 98%+ purity Epitalon and get the lab to downsample it into 5mg or 2mg multi-use vials. I absolutely will not post nor share the names of any because I see above that people have used this thread to try and sell their wares. Ideally we'd only post true experiences and share our experiments in a non-profit-driven way.

[meatsauce]

So what is the optimal alcohol content again? 8%

I am currently sending inquiries to all the us peptide manufactures to see about pricing.

[mikey]

I will not go into the, "quality issue" at this time. I just want to point out the obvious and make a sound warning to any who are thinking of injecting that peptide, do not do it. That is not an air tight, injectable vial and must be opened to the air in order to mix and load a syringe. Risk of contamination is high. Genscript should give you the same advice, if they do not, well................ Do not inject that peptide, I will leave it at that.

I agree. There is at least one company online where you can buy injectable Epitalon. It's the typical white peptide that reconstitutes easily. But it's very expensive. About $35 per MG. I tried it for a couple weeks and decided I prefer something of higher quality that doesn't have to be injected. And much cheaper.

ClinicalGradePeptides.com charge $39.95 for 5 mg of injectable Epithalon (plus shipping). That is $7.99 a mg. CGP says to inject 150 mcg once of twice daily.

That's $1.12 per 150 mcg or $35.96/mo or $71.91.mo for twice a day.

Depending on how difficult it is to split up raw powder without having it turn into a gooey mess, if it does what it's supposed to, the CGP price seems equitable to me. I have more money than time.

Isn't the Clinical Grade Peptide product 98.5% or better? Is there a question about its quality?

Because I'd rather spend what isn't a lot of money and go the subq injection route than work really hard buying powder and then having it be difficult to split it up to have a vial that I use for a month and freeze the rest, again and again - IF it is so hygroscopic that it is difficult to handle without turning into a "gooey mess."

I'm sorry if I'm asking questions that have been answered, but I haven't had time to read all the posts here. My business is flooding me with work.

I will not go into the, "quality issue" at this time. I just want to point out the obvious and make a sound warning to any who are thinking of injecting that peptide, do not do it. That is not an air tight, injectable vial and must be opened to the air in order to mix and load a syringe. Risk of contamination is high. Genscript should give you the same advice, if they do not, well................ Do not inject that peptide, I will leave it at that.

Yes. Unless it's prepped for injection - in a sealed vial, you need a "clean room" with electrostatic air filtering and to run it through a .02 micron filter to make sure to get all the bugs out. Otherwise, you risk infections, like junkies do.

[researchist]

Does clinical grade peptides sell to the United States? I don't think they do. They have an interesting peptide called FGL they are selling for around 40 for 5mg. There is some very interesting research on FGL. As evidenced here http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/15525346 and here http://learnmem.cshl...ontent/18/5/306 its a potent agonist of neurite growth. Another peptide of interest is ghrelin http://serendip.bryn...eb2/dmarck.html improves memory. The little peptide houses in the US don't carry these things. The peptidelabs carried epitalon. for some reason they closed soon after. I don't know why.

[Authentic]

I don't know anything about CGP but I would be hesitant given that they don't tell you the purity and also they don't tell you any of their QC information.

Also in my personal opinion SubQ injection is the only route to use with Epitalon given that it's such a short chain peptide. Many labs won't even synthesize it because it's so difficult to stabilize. Within moments of Epitalon contacting your saliva it's probably already too late.

[Dreamer]

Also in my personal opinion SubQ injection is the only route to use with Epitalon given that it's such a short chain peptide. Many labs won't even synthesize it because it's so difficult to stabilize. Within moments of Epitalon contacting your saliva it's probably already too late.

That should make for an interesting discussion.

Since sublingual is by far the fastest way into the blood stream after IV, I wonder if it wouldn't be better than SubQ. After all, given SubQ, it will come into contact with various bodily fluids before entering the bloodstream, which is where it has to get in order to be effective. Or so it seems.

If I recall accurately, SciWalk tried it both ways and ended up with sublingual. I hope he contributes his experiences and opinion.

It will be an interesting discussion.

[meatsauce]

What do we think the optimal reconstitution volume is? Genscript recommends 1ml per 1 - 2 ml peptide but that seems like a lot for sublingual absorption. I think a smaller volume will work better for optimal absorption in the mouth.

I think putting it between your lips and front teeth is a good idea. There is also the method of intra nasal delivery which is supposed to increase uptake onto the brain. If we are after telomerase activating throughout the whole body maybe it has to reach the peripheral tissue just as much as the brain so we should figure that one out.

I just reconstituted a 50mg vial with 2.5 ml of .9% alcohol .9% sodium chloride solution. I then transferred the peptide solution to a glass vial with rubber top.

For an oral dose of 3mg I need to draw out 15 ticks or .15ml on an insulin needle.

I weighed a full vial compared to the empty one on my milligram scale and it is 50mg lighter.

So for those who know about peptides is 2.5ml for 50ml to little water for good shelf life?

[Dreamer]

What do we think the optimal reconstitution volume is? Genscript recommends 1ml per 1 - 2 ml peptide but that seems like a lot for sublingual absorption. I think a smaller volume will work better for optimal absorption in the mouth.

I think putting it between your lips and front teeth is a good idea. There is also the method of intra nasal delivery which is supposed to increase uptake onto the brain. If we are after telomerase activating throughout the whole body maybe it has to reach the peripheral tissue just as much as the brain so we should figure that one out.

I just reconstituted a 50mg vial with 2.5 ml of .9% alcohol .9% sodium chloride solution. I then transferred the peptide solution to a glass vial with rubber top.

For an oral dose of 3mg I need to draw out 15 ticks or .15ml on an insulin needle.

I weighed a full vial compared to the empty one on my milligram scale and it is 50mg lighter.

So for those who know about peptides is 2.5ml for 50ml to little water for good shelf life?

I have been mixing with water and alcohol to a total of about 8ml for 50mg. That results in approximately 4 drops/mg and I take it 6 drops at a time sublingually twice for a total of 12 drops or about 3mg before bedtime.

I don't suppose it matters too much what the ratio is, peptide to water, as long as you know what you are getting. This just seems to work for us.

OK, logically, in response to Authentic.

I already said that IV or directly into the bloodstream was the fastest, so we agree on that.

What I said was that SubL was the next fastest way to get it into the blood stream.

Not all substances are suitable for SubL.

As for vaccines, I don't do vaccines so can't answer that one. Don't do MainStream Medicine either, especially their drugs and other therapies/protocols.

SubQ is not directly into the bloodstream. It is absorbed slowly by other body fluids. What is it mixed with before it gets into the bloodstream? Does that additional time and contact with other fluids and tissues have a dilutive effect or degrade it in any way?

So the question remains.

Is the peptide absorbed faster and better including more intactly with a SubQ or SubL method? Inquisitive minds want to know.

Sciwalk started this thread.

Edited by Dreamer, 04 August 2013 - 10:43 PM.

[Authentic]

Dreamer if you read the thread again you'll see a lot of posts saying to mix it with wine. I know you read it thoroughly so you probably mean something else in your text? Just go back a few pages and you'll start to see people talk over and over again about mixing it with wine.

Have you (or has anyone here) ever felt anything while using it sublingual? It should trigger a massive release of melatonin that you can certainly feel. Every time I inject SubQ I get that release so I'm fairly confident anyone else using this peptide would get the same effect if it hit their bloodstream.

Please share your experiences and thanks!

[Dreamer]

Your comment was " If I remember right someone here was telling people to mix it with wine first?"

It has been pointed out repeatedly not to mix with any alcohol first, only after it is dissolved in water. There is a big difference between mixing with water first and mixing with wine/alcohol first.

[Authentic]

Dreamer you're still mixing a short chain peptide with wine. Even if it's been dissolved in water first - you're adding wine to it.

I take it from your non-response that you're not getting the strong effect from Epitalon in the manner you are mixing and consuming it. You might want to try it another way.