14 votes
Posted 02 July 2014 - 12:48 PM
Stupidity! China - the only manufacturer of peptides and quality can also be found. Melatonin can not drink! He spoils his own release melatonin and epithalon stimulates the body to release its own melatonin
Edited by sedstanislav, 02 July 2014 - 12:50 PM.
Posted 02 July 2014 - 02:43 PM
I will check out spermadine.
I have had NO noticeable positive results with ANY epitalon. Whether telomeres grow or not, I don't really care, although I suppose that would be a good sign. But as a prior poster said, "where are the tests ?".
I have tried TA 65, and that worked well for many things, including strength, I was able to work out with 40 pound barbells. Apparently the TA 65 will create a positive effect, perhaps drawing from the bodies own STORED enzymes, but then that supply is depleted. ( I am 70 years old) So, TA 65 gave no effects after perhaps 6 months. I tried Stem Cell 100, and that is just like taking Astragalus root, at least in feeling anything.
I feel nothing with C60.
I DID start out with Reneuve, which is a porcine ( pig) enzyme. It worked well.
Perhaps that with TA65 is a thought, and perhaps that was my first positive result with TA65, working WITH Reneuve. The Reneuve giving TA65 something to draw from.
As has been mentioned, I run 6-10 miles a day, and bike 50 in the summer. In May, I had been taking Ibuprofin while getting dental work done, and suffered 6 hemoraging stomach ulcers. I almost died.
My blood count is still low ( July), and I am taking iron pills for a developed anemia, so I have been in bad shape. My health is so good, I did not get transfusions, although my blood count went below 8.
Three days ago I re ordered Reneuve. For two days, I have been running four miles a day and biking 8. I feel a little faint, but doing very well.
I am of the thought Epitalon is a scam, at least until scientific results come in. I would think that if telomere length was evident in growth, I should FEEL it somehow.
Rich
Posted 02 July 2014 - 05:50 PM
Posted 02 July 2014 - 07:04 PM
I have ordered homeopathic hgh spray from 21st Century something or other. It looks good.
I made a nasal spray for the remaining Epitalon I have , and I plan on reordering Reneuve.
Of course, I am concerned about some degree of safety, along with cost, but if I don't get an octane boost, I am done with the product.
This is not to say that I am NOT getting other benefits, such as telomere length, but I do think that I should feel some improvement when taking a product.
The spermidine looks good along with other mentioned items, but , again, I would look for a nasal or oral delivery.
Rich
Posted 05 July 2014 - 08:39 AM
I Haven't posted for quite some time I've just returned to the site. but why do many posters think they have to get a buzz from every thing they take ? Khavinson has patented this in most European countries and also possibly the state's. I can't see him doing that unless it works as it costs money .
It's rare for any Russian peer review papers. or the tests we are used to in the west. Under the old Soviet system he was the peer as one of the leading biochemists in the eastern block.
As we age our pineal gland calcified and slowly releases less and less of the hormones it did while we were young. Epithalon decalcifies the gland allowing it to function as it did when we were young. but independent trails in the west haven't been done as far as I know. big pharmaceutical aren't interested as they can't patent it.
The HGH up regulators you mentioned that come as an oral spray or in pill form are unlikely to work there are plenty of independent tests on those and I havnt found one that proves they are effective. Any that say they contain HGH cannot work. As HGH is to large (191 amino acids) to pass through the mucus membrain. And is destroyed in the stomach other than the peptides mentioned by the other posters the seceratogues which will increase HGH by about 40 per cent from what your body produces now.
By the time we are past about 60 yr old we only produce a fraction of what we did when we were in our 20s . The only way your going to get it to that level is by injecting HGH. At about 1iu a day. There are a few genuine manufacturers in China the guy who invented the method now used to produce it using a modified virus worked for Elli Lilly and now has a couple of factories manufacturing it. but also there are lots of scammers selling cheap HGH that is cut with other things or who disappear with your money. Unfortunately it is illegal in the states unless prescribed by a doctor which you probably already know. It's illegal to sell it here in the UK but can be imported legally for your own use .
Posted 05 July 2014 - 10:33 AM
Posted 05 July 2014 - 11:57 AM
Thanks all.
I don't recall using the word "buzz" though. I mentioned that I think I should feel some kind of benefit though. I say this because "buzz" has a more negative implication than feeling " some kind of octane improvement".
I understand that oral intake is usually destroyed by stomach acids... but it is the only route I am willing to take.
I did mention that I felt an improvement from TA65 and reneuve, but not from others I mentioned... should I drop those and take something that apparently does nothing ? Perhaps telomeres DO grow, but even that has NOT been proven to improve lifespan... but I am not so much for increasing lifespan, although That would be nice... but improving my present sense of health and wellbeing.
I have looked for pill form HGH and testosterone, but it is apparently unavailable.... so the " infused" hgh is the way I have to go.
Death is death, I am not scared of it in the least. ... I am after improving my health and quality of life though.
Again, thanks for ALL of your responses.
Rich
Posted 06 July 2014 - 08:10 PM
I would add that I am using a strange mixture of Hydrocortisone with DMSO. I had knee pain, perhaps from running bruises, and after having this pain for some months, the pain left extremely quickly. ( minutes) It is gone permanently.( pain)
I have also used Epitalon in this mixture, and I am seeing some benefit. I was bald for 40 years, and I have a LOT of hair growth now, but it is just long peach fuzz. So something is working.
I am also going to include the infused ( not real) hgh in this, along with Colagen.
The DMSO IS delivering this into the bloodstream, flesh skin and muscles, so perhaps this method is better than oral.
I am also inhaling Oxytocin. Oxytocin is used for mood influence on deppressed pregnant women. I read a new announcement last week, that the FDA has approved it for muscle growth. I also notice I get a BUZZ, similar to opiates, such as Vicodin, especially while running.
Rich C ( buzz)
Posted 06 July 2014 - 10:02 PM
I would add that I am using a strange mixture of Hydrocortisone with DMSO. I had knee pain, perhaps from running bruises, and after having this pain for some months, the pain left extremely quickly. ( minutes) It is gone permanently.( pain)
I have also used Epitalon in this mixture, and I am seeing some benefit. I was bald for 40 years, and I have a LOT of hair growth now, but it is just long peach fuzz. So something is working.
I am also going to include the infused ( not real) hgh in this, along with Colagen.
The DMSO IS delivering this into the bloodstream, flesh skin and muscles, so perhaps this method is better than oral.
I am also inhaling Oxytocin. Oxytocin is used for mood influence on deppressed pregnant women. I read a new announcement last week, that the FDA has approved it for muscle growth. I also notice I get a BUZZ, similar to opiates, such as Vicodin, especially while running.
Rich C ( buzz)
Where do you buy oxytocin for inhalation?
Edited by mikey, 06 July 2014 - 10:06 PM.
Posted 06 July 2014 - 10:48 PM
www.oxytocinfactor.com
30 ml nasal inhaler. apparently it has been observed that more than one inhalation daily shows no further improvement on senile muscles. I think it is less than $20.
I have been reading up on injection of peptides, getting more familiar with the idea. I have read where what I am doing( epidermal placement with dmso) gets more product through than oral. I wonder what a beta blocker ( prevacid etc) or protease inhibitor might do to deliver the product through GI tract.
anyone ?
Posted 06 July 2014 - 11:16 PM
I would be very concerned about using that product based on it's terrible reviews (and it was pulled from Amazon):
http://www.amazon.co...nDateDescending
Posted 06 July 2014 - 11:57 PM
I stand by my own review, as stated previously. I have purchased some products, based on good reviews, but found the reviews to be worthless, as judged by my own experiences. If it works, go for it, if it doesn't, don't.
As I said, the FDA announces a few days ago, that it was positive for muscle growth. Those reviews aRE all for the ADVERTISED claims, such as mood enhancers, which I realized under running conditions. Perhaps those reviews are for a lack of mood improvement.... as that is what t is used for.
Perhaps I shall not realize muscle growth, but the mood improvement is VERY good. Perhaps under hyperventilation and oxygen uptake, the benefit is then realized.
Posted 07 July 2014 - 07:42 PM
I would add that I am using a strange mixture of Hydrocortisone with DMSO. I had knee pain, perhaps from running bruises, and after having this pain for some months, the pain left extremely quickly. ( minutes) It is gone permanently.( pain)
I have also used Epitalon in this mixture, and I am seeing some benefit. I was bald for 40 years, and I have a LOT of hair growth now, but it is just long peach fuzz. So something is working.
I am also going to include the infused ( not real) hgh in this, along with Colagen.
The DMSO IS delivering this into the bloodstream, flesh skin and muscles, so perhaps this method is better than oral.
I am also inhaling Oxytocin. Oxytocin is used for mood influence on deppressed pregnant women. I read a new announcement last week, that the FDA has approved it for muscle growth. I also notice I get a BUZZ, similar to opiates, such as Vicodin, especially while running.
Rich C ( buzz)
The pain in my knees squatting, or climbing a ladder went away fairly quickly with my homemade C60-OO, at about 1/14-1/2 a teaspoon every so many days. I noticed it too with TA65 but only for awhile with it where the C60 only comes back if I go way too many days before taking more. I may be able to now after almost a year and a half, but I have seen way too many good things from it over time to stop it, and I seem to be getting stronger over that time without working at it. Lets see, dirt cheap if you make it yourself, and use some small amounts seldom (days apart), plus benefits and including lab numbers. Hell yeah I take it LOL
I take either TA65 or crackaging, in spurts (might bee weeks or months apart), every other day soaked in C60..oil.
Now, for the knee pain, if C60 doesn't do it over weeks or months and TA65 doesn't then MSM should. I pulled I guess it was a ligament in my right shoulder lifting weights again, for the first time in a few years. Nothing would stop the inflammation/pain or slow it down and this went on for days. C60, aspirin, prednesone did not affect it, and this was day and night intense pain when I move at all. It even woke me from sleep. Then a nurse I know dropped by and bought some...don't laugh horse liniment and rubbed it on my right shoulder blade and the pair vanished in 5 to 10 minutes almost totally, with just a very dull sensation left there when I moved my arm. Thermaflex was its name and it can be found on ebay among other places. The pain would some back hours later until a dab more was put on but it kept working.
So I looked at the ingredients on the bottle to find it's secret. It was MSM, among other more common ingredients, so I ordered some MSM off of Ebay, and put some of that in capsules and started taking about 6 one at a time throughout the day and the pain stayed away, then after so many days I stopped the capsules and the pain came back,so the tried drinking in in water. it tastes horrible but knocked out the pain again and stayed knocked out for days. Any time since then I it bothers me I just gulp down some more. It could be a joint problem too, since I have AS and I know a number of years ago the disease attacked that shoulder, for months, before stopping. I am 66, smoke, have COPD from the AS and have been on oxygen from time to time and yet for some reason getting stronger, without working at it at all. I think most of it comes from the C60 over a long time.
The MSM is supposedly found in foods and supposedly DMSO turns into MSM once in the body. I have DMSO but don't like to play with it much, and since MSM stops the shoulder pain...... What other good it might do is unknown to me and it may well do other good things over time.
For knee pain the first suggestion I would make would be taking C60 orally, then TA65, and then MSM if those two didn't work. I am not suppose to be getting healthier but dying out over time, yet I am getting more energy, strength, and the lab results are going positive over the last few years. I have the worst medical in the world...the VA, but I never depend on medical anyway except for labs and to try and get what I think I need like prednesone, at about 5 mg a day.
Our bodies and blood are full of nasties as we age, that are throwing out lots of poisons/free radicals from things like senescent cells. C60, prednesone in small amounts, TA65, and probably MSM all are in my humble opinion blockers of them, through different pathways and probably limits the new damage from this, and allows healing to catch up. Its my theory, from my reading, and my experience. Try the MSM. A few tablespoons in water, but it tastes nasty LOL Have a good one.
Posted 07 July 2014 - 08:10 PM
Sounds like we have some things in common :-) creaking bones...
I was not aware of any benefits to C60OO outside of possible anti aging benefits. I have a large bottle, but have not used it in a while.
I would be interested on opinions re C60 other than anti aging ( which is enough :-)
I will look at MSM... sounds a lot like DMSO. I have the 99% liquid ( garlic and onion smell) but prefer the scented cream, which is 70%.
Try hydrocortisone with dmso/ msm. There are some online reports on this benefit.
Rich
Posted 08 July 2014 - 12:17 AM
Posted 08 July 2014 - 03:49 AM
Sounds like we have some things in common :-) creaking bones...
I was not aware of any benefits to C60OO outside of possible anti aging benefits. I have a large bottle, but have not used it in a while.
I would be interested on opinions re C60 other than anti aging ( which is enough :-)
I will look at MSM... sounds a lot like DMSO. I have the 99% liquid ( garlic and onion smell) but prefer the scented cream, which is 70%.
Try hydrocortisone with dmso/ msm. There are some online reports on this benefit.
Rich
The MSM pretty much keeps my shoulder problem be it tendon, or more socket related away, and has now, since about February of 2014. I seldom drink any either. Did the last time about 4 or 5 days ago, and I might for weeks before feeling like maybe I need some more. The knees really never are a problem now at all, as long as I don't go or week or two, without a dab or two of C60 . My bones were under attack since my late teens but I never knew it then, and the doctors could not find out what was causing my hip pain then. In fact, I was never diagnosed with AS until around 40 and then it showed up on x-rays of my back, and even then the lab tech made the call on it when he saw it and not the Doctor.
A few things I can state about C60. The night after I took it hours earlier I went to the large grocery store to get groceries, and had lots of energy and never a breathing or air problem, and I started moving fast to see if I noticed any limits and found none. Not even close to normal for me. Got home and brought the groceries in and still felt good. Fixed and ate super and still felt good and hours later went to sleep around 1 or 2am. Next day most of that was gone LOL But I did seem to have a little more energy and stamina. The next day I had to play with my propane torch out in the freezing cold (pipes) and lost control of the torch and when I went to try and grab it the fame went across one hand. Hurt like hell for 4 hours and then the pain left. Very little redness and no blisters came up. The next day trying to work in the same conditions it happened again except it was a finger on my left hand it got. Same pain and same time of pain and like clockwork it stopped hurting after about 4 hours. No pain in the days after or nerve damage felt from the burned areas, which never really looked burned.
Now that kind of amazed me about 5 to 7 days later I notice the right hand felt a little rough where I burned it and looked closely. The skin was cracking there, so I pealed it up and there looked like baby skin underneath. The same happened on the left hand, but it took it days longer to happen. OK, so I may be fire proof from the C60 LOL
Summer rolled around months later and I went out and worked in the yard with no tan in the hottest part of this desert day. Stayed out quite awhile trying out my new burn proof wings. I had already seen good reports from others on C60's protection from the sun burns. Went inside and figured I would turn red in an hour or two from it, but instead of that I seem to start getting a light tan fairly fast instead of redness. Never saw that in my 60+ years, except maybe as a young kid. Only a few minor oven burns since then and they did nothing other than a lot of short term pain, then gone. Very very weird.
Next weirdness was this last winter I seem to get the flu. Had the ache and a 101 fever and I was about 4 or 5 days out, from my last dose of C60 I took. Well I didn't feel like I wanted to go back to bed to sleep it off, and thought may be if I took my next 1/4 to 1/2 teaspoon of C60 I would have more energy, so I could do what I wanted to do and then crash that night. Well it helped a little, but an hour two later I felt tired and decided to catch a 3 or 4 hour nap. Laid down but was wide awake and could not sleep, but stayed down trying to rest. When I got up about 4 hours later I noticed first of all the flu ache was gone. Secondly I was bursting with energy, and more than normal. I then took my temp and it was sub normal. It was GONE. The same flu seemed to wipe everyone around here out pretty badly, and for like a week, from what they said. Take the stories for what they are worth.
Normally, I don't notice much with it, but to me it seems to be standing guard inside me all the time to protect me and it hasn't let me down yet. And like I said earlier I seem to be getting stronger over the last 18 months and more energy to, like slowly but surely. Even if not for that I would take it because of the protection I have seen from it. One more thing I just thought of, my triglycerides and bad cholesterol dropped into normal range for the last year, and 6 month after I started the C60. My triglycerides have always been HIGH.
Yet I feel nothing most of the time from it.
Posted 08 July 2014 - 10:23 AM
Thanks for that report. Two days ago I noticed something that asserts what happened to you, but I had no idea what may have helped it,
I wa s out driving for many hours in my convertible, in bright sunlight, wearing a short sleeved shirt. My right side, arms and neck, were badly sun burned. The area was almost purple. I was expecting blisters and pain. The next day, I just had a nice tan.
Posted 16 July 2014 - 03:37 AM
I posted over in the new members thread if anyone is interested in who I am, and I've posted a few questions. After reading this entire 33 page thread, I'm still very interested despite the issues with ordering and lack of telomeres length tests. I'd like to thank sciwalk for his effort in sharing his experiences, I probably would not have discovered this on my own without his desire to share and contribute.
I'd like to participate in a group buy. If someone has a qualified organization to make the purchase, then I want to join in. If there is no qualified organization willing to make the purchase I should be able to arrange one for prepaid group buy orders (or a massive oversupply of requests). I don't want to be sitting on a few thousand dollars of epitalon by accident or politics. I am only interested in Genscript as a provider, manufacturing our own (hopefully with qualified experts), or a 3rd party lab that has been successfully used and tested. I consider Gramson's data anecdotal since he's getting oral blisters from his "epitalon" and his experience appears unique.
Has anyone done followup research on the other peptide chains that were patented? I don't want to reinvent the wheel, get all excited I invented the wheel, and then someone point out I didn't leave any space for axles. If this research has been done, I'd love to pursue it more. I already inject insulin, so I'm willing to inject a properly sterile and pure long peptide chain in proper suspension fluid. (For comparison, insulin is easy to make from genetically engineered yeast, the suspension fluid is insanely hard.)
I'm very curious to test and find out if I would still be diabetic in a few months of taking epitalon.
Posted 16 July 2014 - 03:43 AM
I'm also curious about a tally of the people who went with the original group buy. Would you buy again? Does this substance have merit despite the lack of research? I can see why a University is unwilling to do research on someone else's patented product. If it is already patented, they have everything to gain and you have nothing to gain from that expensive research. The original patent holder will attempt to discredit any negative data by attacking methods. The lack of research is a big negative, but we should be doing our own telomeres testing if possible. I might be able to get some telomeres length tests done before I start epitalon.
Posted 03 August 2014 - 12:40 PM
Regarding the forms of Epitalon available - as Nemo888 mention,
wouldn't injectable be preferable to orally ingested due to the bypassing of the liver?
Here is an example of lypholized Epitalon: http://pinnaclepepti...ep-peptide.html
I don't know why there is wide variation in the prices,
nor when I go through medical journals and published papers on Epitalon can I find similar results without VK Khavison attached to it.
Posted 03 August 2014 - 01:09 PM
That is an example of a photoshop image. They *may* also have an injectable form of epitalon, but they definitely do have photoshop people on staff. The problem is suspension fluids, and I'll give my insulin as a clear cut example.
There are many different ways of genetically engineering yeast in order to induce them to produce insulin as a byproduct, an 11 amino acid chain. The total molecular weight varies slightly, there are variations of recipe across animal species that perform almost identically. The different kinds of insulin available in stores have completely different metabolic functions based on the suspension fluid. The fluid is normalized for molarity by volume, so the same amount of injected insulin by volume uniformly absorbs the same number of total carbohydrates. That is the end of the similarity.
Off the top of my head and with a small margin of error, "Regular" insulin has a 4 to 6 hour duration. It is typically R on the label but there are variations in duration. The absorption pattern is usually initial reaction within 20-30 minutes.
"N" or NPH insulin has an 8 to 12 hour duration, a typical onset of 45 min to 1 hour. I have reactions to the suspension fluid, and a month of taking "N" insulin will leave me weak, unable to think or function, lack of coordination, difficulty walking.
There is a class of insulin known as "ultralente" meaning super fast acting. The names usually end in "-log" like novolog and humalog (Lilli brand). The initial onset is 5-15 minutes, with a duration of 70 to 100 minutes.
The most recent entry into the mainstream market is "Lantus" and it has a 1-1.5 hour onset and a 24-25 hour duraction. This is still patent restricted, and has special "care" guidelines, injection and mix restrictions, etc that the other insulins don't have.
Each insulin has a different activity curve. Lantus has a nearly flat curve, while the NPH tends to "peak" within 3 hours and provide almost metabolic function near the end of its activity cycle. The suspension fluids are typically patent restricted, vary drastically, and doctors have essentially demanded (partially through ineptitude and their inability to understand the calculus involved) new products to conform to one fo the existing products. The suspension fluids are *hard* to create, vary the product, increase the cost (partially due to a long research phase involved) and in some cases have side effects.
I am not willing to inject anything based on a photoshop image and no real documentation or testing. I would only use mice for the initial testing, and I'd be hesitant to transition to human trials. On the other hand, alcohol and peptide chains in water are things that we have a very long history of ingesting, and this method of delivery produces both results (but I want more lab verification, not safety testing) and low cost.
edit: silly typo detracting from professionalism of reply.
Edited by RorschachRev, 03 August 2014 - 01:11 PM.
Posted 03 August 2014 - 01:11 PM
Thanks for the link, and a good price. I would go with injectable, IF I could get some direction on the "how to".
I have been trying oral intake on some steroids, and these DO work in this manner, but certainly oral intake of Epitalon seems to do nothing.
my e mail is richardclarkson @ gmail . com if anyone cares to advise. I do understand this is only a simple subcutaneous input.
thanks
Posted 03 August 2014 - 02:08 PM
I am not willing to inject anything based on a photoshop image and no real documentation or testing.
No, neither am I.
But this is not a water-suspended formulation,
it is lyophilized and then reconstituted using bacteriostatic water.
I don't know regarding the longevity of suspended solutions of Epitalon. But then how would a powder be any different?
Also, this is not the only peptide-based company offering epitalon,
there are multiple - and as far as I'm aware mass spectronomy charts are provided upon request, with a certification of purity.
Requesting a certificate of analysis (CoA) from a seller you think is bogus often results in silence from them, as they have nothing to back up their product with.
Posted 03 August 2014 - 03:56 PM
Let's say we do get independent testing and confirm that it does indeed contain epitalon as claimed. That's not enough for me. First of all, it is extremely vulnerable to bacteria, and even sterile needles will have bacteria on them. (Surface of the container, the needle is exposed to air, etc). Now I've never had an issue with my subcutaneous injections and I don't use alcohol swabs - but I throw my vials of insulin away every month. There isn't a 6 month vial accumulating bacteria in the case of my insulin, plus the insulin has much more complex substrates than sterile water. I'm a fan of minimalist approaches in general, but that does *not* extend to something I inject into my body. Did you know that an improper pH balance will kill you? Did you know that water often leeches heavy metals, and those are toxic to your body? "We put it in sterile water" may be good marketing, but not good medicine.
Photoshop vial makes me more upset than anything else, because they obviously haven't spent a lot of the necessary time developing and testing a safe product.
Posted 04 August 2014 - 01:08 PM
They havnt developed this product they are a reseller the instructions are in bad English and probably taken straight from the advertising done on the manufacturers site or whoever they buy it from. it could be eastern Europe or China.
Most lyphalised peptides or hormones will keep for two years in a freezer. and once mixed with bac water at least a month although slightly less in the case of IGF. and is in small vials with about a month's supply after mixing so the chance of getting problems is practically none existant. the same for the amount of water with a low or high PH a gallon of pure drinking water will kill you if you take it all at once. even the heavy metals you mention is almost a none issue. with the amounts we take.
hundreds of thousands of body builders take peptides in large amounts day after day. And whilst a few die from various things I've yet to see one report where it was from toxic metal poisoning or the water ph.
Posted 08 August 2014 - 08:17 PM
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