1755 replies to this topic

[sciwalk]

 

I take 2mg a day, orally, 1 in morning and 1 at night.  I take in capsule that the AEDG is made into mirco spheres and put into a veggie (gero-protective) capsule so that it releases in the small intestine.  
As for the effectiveness of sub-q vs sub-lingual vs oral.  The difference is negligible.  The peptide is only 4 amino acids and can pass through your skin.  Releasing in the small intestine or under the tongue brings it right into the blood stream.  The other benefit is that the capsules I take are also packed with some good amounts of L-Carnosine, Lycopine and Resveratrol.  Hey, If you don't mind injecting, go for it.  Some of us just prefer not to if we don't have to.  Others just cannot.
Nasal???  That I tried a long time ago.  Very very irritating.  Felt like a had a cold for a couple of days.  Tried that with Melanotan II for a while too, no thank you.

As for dose, I have tried in upwords of 50mg a day for a week.  It makes for one very powerful immune system boost but pretty pricey.
I am trying to get some time to get back to doing something with my old site and when I do, I will post more info and new pics.  At least I will get it all done before my birthday, I hope.  LOL

 

 

Very interesting information, sciwalk. Where does one obtain the encapsulated Epitalon that is made into microspheres?

 

I would very much like to be able to share it with loved ones.

 

Thank you in advance.

 

 

Check your messages.

[mikey]

The acetyl group on the N terminus and Amidate on the C-terminus should protect it from enzymatic degradation. My worry is that it has no studies I know of. I'll stay on normal Epitalon for now. 

 

 

Hello Nuke. I certainly am not expert in chemistry.

 

But I ask, if Epitalon has never shown toxicity in any publication, why would extending it's useful lifespan in the body by acetylating and amidating it cause such concern?

 

The acetyl group on the N terminus and Amidate on the C-terminus should protect it from enzymatic degradation. My worry is that it has no studies I know of. I'll stay on normal Epitalon for now. 

 

 

Hello Nuke. I certainly am not expert in chemistry.

 

But I ask, if Epitalon has never shown toxicity in any publication, why would extending it's useful lifespan in the body by acetylating and amidating it cause such concern?

 

Again, I thank anyone that helps enlighten this topic as It seems to be one of the best anti-aging tools.

 

[pure]

mikey..
..cause chronic agonization of receptors/anything, is often associated with side effects.
The body secretes peptides as and when they are required AND for the duration required in order to regulate itself.
Note how the latest generation peptide based T2 diabetes drugs can cause side effects, yet their native endogenous peptides don't.
This is because the peptides in the latest T2D peptide drugs have been modified from their native endogenous structure such that they act longer (chronically agonize receptors) because they are more resistant to degradation.

Edited by pure, 26 January 2016 - 09:54 AM.

[G-e-e]

My Epitalon has arrived! I can't wait to start this journey wohooooo!

 

I just wanted to provide some public feedback on ceretropic.com ..... they are freaking awesome!!

 

After a mix up with my order they went out of their way to help me resolve the issue.

 

It's rare to receive such exemplary customer service today... and for that they have a lifetime customer.

 

I hope I get some time to share my experience with Epitalon and contribute in any way I can (albeit anecdotally on my experience with this product).  

[Tom Andre F. (ex shinobi)]

can someone share its protocol to consume epitalon sublingal while you have a glass bottle with 100mg in it.. the powder is totally freezed in it for me. Dilute with water will allow some bacteria proliferation which i want to avoid.. So any idea ?

[Dreamer]

If you do not want to mix up the whole batch, you will have to measure out the amount you want to mix.

 

I posted the mixing procedures I use a few days ago.

 

Let us know of your experiences.

[mikey]

mikey..
..cause chronic agonization of receptors/anything, is often associated with side effects.
The body secretes peptides as and when they are required AND for the duration required in order to regulate itself.
Note how the latest generation peptide based T2 diabetes drugs can cause side effects, yet their native endogenous peptides don't.
This is because the peptides in the latest T2D peptide drugs have been modified from their native endogenous structure such that they act longer (chronically agonize receptors) because they are more resistant to degradation.

 

Thank you, pure.

I just ordered some regular epitalon.

 

I don't like the acetylated and amidated versions for one reason, they are much less water soluble, so mixing them is more work.

 

I'll noticed the most astonishing reversal of facial skin aging with the first use, which was plain Epitalon.

 

So I'll see if I perceive a difference using plain Epitalon again.

 

Thank you again for your cautions.

[G-e-e]

So, I'm on day 4 of Epitalon.

 

I take 5mg in the morning and 5mg in the late afternoon in the form of injections around the stomach area. I haven't really found any information on how long before and after the injections you should stop eating. If anyone has any idea on that i would love to hear it. With CJC1295/Ipamorelin you are required to fast 2 hours prior to injection and 50 minutes after. I've followed a similar routine with Epitalon.

 

I've been hoping that Epitalon may also give me a slight immune boost and help me clear this annoying sebrhoeic dermatitis issue i seem to get intermittently in my eyebrows, areas of my cheeks and chin.

 

Here is my journal 4 days into using it. 

 

 

Day 1 - I had foggy vision. Lucid dreaming at an all time high. No particular observations on my skin. I noticed that I have started to sneeze a lot. This is rare for me. not sure if it's the epitalon or something else. 

 

Day 2 - Not much to notice. Foggy vision no longer an issue. It was a little difficult to get to sleep so i decided on having 10mg of Melatonin. I might continue the melatonin thing as I hear it complements Epitalon well. 

 

Day 3 I noticed my skin seems a little blotchy / red. This is usually signs of an outbreak of dermatitis (one of which i use milld hydrocortisone creams to keep it under control for a few days and then it just goes away). I've decided not to use any creams this time round so that i can measure if Epitalon has any effect on my skin. Getting to sleep tonight was particularly hard and i felt a little itchy all over my body after having a shower.

 

Day 4 - Noticing pimples appearing in random parts of my body. Inner arm, legs, etc. I thought this was a little odd. But nothing alarming. I've noticed the skin and scalp are particularly dry (i.e. flaking quite badly). I've decided still not to use any creams other than a Cetaphil moisturiser to mask some of the flakiness symptoms. My face continues to be blotchy / red in certain parts.

 

 

In summary so far I haven't noticed any particularly dramatic changes. Although I don't really anticipate that I will see any in terms of wrinkles. I have virtually no wrinkles so I doubt i will see the reported effects on wrinkle reduction.

 

I do anticipate that with time I will see an improvement in skin tone. I am unsure if Epitalon will help with 'curing' sebrhoeic dermatitis but it's more of an experiment nonetheless. 

 

Thanks mikey for all your advice!

 

I've decided to take on C60oo from carbon60oliveoil.com and expect a delivery in the next week.

 

I will most likely get back onto CJC1295/Ipamorelin combo as I re-commence my gym regime after a 1 month break as I have seen incredible results on what this combo can do to my workouts.

 

I will do my best to report back again in a few days.

 

On a side note - Has anyone noticed that when you draw Epitalon from vials from ceretropic that some of the product squirts out through the rubber when you pull out the syringe? Is this normal? Our vials in Sydney don't squirt anything out once you pull the syringe out.

[Dreamer]

Sounds to me like you may have a fungal problem with your skin and scalp problems, certainly external and perhaps internally as well.

[G-e-e]

Sounds to me like you may have a fungal problem with your skin and scalp problems, certainly external and perhaps internally as well.

 

I think I probably do. Any advice?

[Logic]

 

Sounds to me like you may have a fungal problem with your skin and scalp problems, certainly external and perhaps internally as well.

 

I think I probably do. Any advice?

 

 

I'd try VCO (Virgin Coconut Oil) for a start.  Topically and eat it.

 

I saw the most difference from a combo of C60oo and Epitalon.

10mg is way above the optimal dosage IIRC?  I took 3 mg sublingually which works out to about 1 mg injected.

[Nuke]

You can also have a look at Borax. I take about 30-50mg a day.

 

Some of the Russian studies used 10mg a day for 3 weeks IIRC.

[mikey]

 

 

I take 2mg a day, orally, 1 in morning and 1 at night.  I take in capsule that the AEDG is made into mirco spheres and put into a veggie (gero-protective) capsule so that it releases in the small intestine.  
As for the effectiveness of sub-q vs sub-lingual vs oral.  The difference is negligible.  The peptide is only 4 amino acids and can pass through your skin.  Releasing in the small intestine or under the tongue brings it right into the blood stream.  The other benefit is that the capsules I take are also packed with some good amounts of L-Carnosine, Lycopine and Resveratrol.  Hey, If you don't mind injecting, go for it.  Some of us just prefer not to if we don't have to.  Others just cannot.
Nasal???  That I tried a long time ago.  Very very irritating.  Felt like a had a cold for a couple of days.  Tried that with Melanotan II for a while too, no thank you.

As for dose, I have tried in upwords of 50mg a day for a week.  It makes for one very powerful immune system boost but pretty pricey.
I am trying to get some time to get back to doing something with my old site and when I do, I will post more info and new pics.  At least I will get it all done before my birthday, I hope.  LOL

 

 

Very interesting information, sciwalk. Where does one obtain the encapsulated Epitalon that is made into microspheres?

 

I would very much like to be able to share it with loved ones.

 

Thank you in advance.

 

 

Check your messages.

 

 

Perhaps one of the chemists will chime in.

 

As for the effectiveness of sub-q vs sub-lingual vs oral.  The difference is negligible.  The peptide is only 4 amino acids and can pass through your skin.  Releasing in the small intestine or under the tongue brings it right into the blood stream.

 

I am curious to understand how sublingual or oral administration can work at anywhere near the effectiveness of subq. injections.

I know that Epitalon's molecular weight is 390.35 Daltons and it should pass through skin with skin's 500 Dalton absorption limit, but how much gets into circulation compared to subQ?

 

From what I've gathered all of Khavinson's research had been with IV. I haven't even come close to going through all of his research, so I could be wrong.

 

Sublingual ADAG didn't cause anything exciting for me, whereby I watched people post their experiences, which seemed highly positive, and so I finally decided to try Epitalon subQ.

 

With SubQ Epitalon wrinkles were melting off my face in four days. Others, without prompting noticed my skin's quickly younger appearance.

 

I'd rather not do subQ if there's a viable alternative that produces the same results, so I'm quite open to other options.

Edited by mikey, 09 February 2016 - 09:56 PM.

[pleb]

I'm in agreement with mikey on this. I tried sciwalks epitalon when it was first promoted on here. taking it for three months under the tongue through the mucus membrane and noticed no effect at all on my wrinkles or skin.
I do intend getting a supply from another company that a few on here have recommended and will inject it.

Edited by pleb, 09 February 2016 - 10:17 PM.

[sootedninjas]

Best time to take Epitalon subq ? Before or After a Meal ? Fasted maybe ? before bedtime ? Does it matter ?

Edited by sootedninjas, 09 February 2016 - 11:02 PM.

[Logic]

can someone share its protocol to consume epitalon sublingal while you have a glass bottle with 100mg in it.. the powder is totally freezed in it for me. Dilute with water will allow some bacteria proliferation which i want to avoid.. So any idea ?

 

Some alcohol will help keep the bacteria at bay for around a month IIRC.

I used red wine to good effect as I thought the resveratrol etc that protect the grape from infection might add an extra layer of protection.

Sciwalk's vials came with marks on them for water and wine, making mixing easy.
You will have to do a Google site search of the thread.
 

[Logic]

I'm in agreement with mikey on this. I tried sciwalks epitalon when it was first promoted on here. taking it for three months under the tongue through the mucus membrane and noticed no effect at all on my wrinkles or skin.
I do intend getting a supply from another company that a few on here have recommended and will inject it.

 

Hey pleb.  

Good to see you're still around.

I seem to have had an unusually powerful effect from the sublingual Epi?

I think the C60oo helped and would not discount the effect of my simultaneous telomerase activation stack either.

The telomerase activation stack has very little effect on its own, but I think it synergised with the pro telomerase Epi and C60oo.

Note that Telomerase will migrate to mitochondria in times of mito stress; leaving the nucleus where the telomeres are...

 

That said; I would like to try SubQ next time too.

[pleb]

Hi logic. When I took the epitalon I was on C60 as well (still am). Yes from what you've mentioned I think you take quite a bit more of the various stacks that probably make a difference.

I'll drop you a line in a couple of days amigo.

[sootedninjas]

can't find the original astragalus thread. But what was the original thread about ? Astragalus extracts or Astragalosides IV ?

[niner]

Perhaps one of the chemists will chime in.

 

As for the effectiveness of sub-q vs sub-lingual vs oral.  The difference is negligible.  The peptide is only 4 amino acids and can pass through your skin.  Releasing in the small intestine or under the tongue brings it right into the blood stream.

 

I am curious to understand how sublingual or oral administration can work at anywhere near the effectiveness of subq. injections.

I know that Epitalon's molecular weight is 390.35 Daltons and it should pass through skin with skin's 500 Dalton absorption limit, but how much gets into circulation compared to subQ?

 

Epitalon is relatively lightweight, but that's only part of the equation.  The other part is hydrophobicity, and there Epitalon is a big loser.  It's very hydrophilic, which makes it a poor candidate for getting through skin, including mucous membranes.   The biggest problem with the oral route is likely to be degradation of the peptide.  We have a lot of proteases and endopeptidases in our GI tract, and I'm afraid that when taken orally, it's going to get chewed up to a significant degree.   My expectation would be that you'd need a much larger dose orally or transdermally to get the same effect as subQ, IM, or IV.

[mikey]

I was wondering if this has any significance? It talks about the effects of nasal administration of epitalon on rats.

http://link.springer...1055-007-0095-3

I'm sure this was probably already posted on here but since I usually view this on my phone its really annoying to go back through and read everything. I thought I would bring it up since a few were considering nasal administration.

 

I just ordered the full text. Maybe someone presented it in a later page.

 

I'm too busy to read them all right now.

 

Anyway, I'll bring it to this forum as soon as it arrives.

[mikey]

 

Perhaps one of the chemists will chime in.

 

As for the effectiveness of sub-q vs sub-lingual vs oral.  The difference is negligible.  The peptide is only 4 amino acids and can pass through your skin.  Releasing in the small intestine or under the tongue brings it right into the blood stream.

 

I am curious to understand how sublingual or oral administration can work at anywhere near the effectiveness of subq. injections.

I know that Epitalon's molecular weight is 390.35 Daltons and it should pass through skin with skin's 500 Dalton absorption limit, but how much gets into circulation compared to subQ?

 

Epitalon is relatively lightweight, but that's only part of the equation.  The other part is hydrophobicity, and there Epitalon is a big loser.  It's very hydrophilic, which makes it a poor candidate for getting through skin, including mucous membranes.   The biggest problem with the oral route is likely to be degradation of the peptide.  We have a lot of proteases and endopeptidases in our GI tract, and I'm afraid that when taken orally, it's going to get chewed up to a significant degree.   My expectation would be that you'd need a much larger dose orally or transdermally to get the same effect as subQ, IM, or IV.

 

 

Thank you, Niner. You always seem to come through with practical insight!

[mikey]

 

Sounds to me like you may have a fungal problem with your skin and scalp problems, certainly external and perhaps internally as well.

 

I think I probably do. Any advice?

 

 

This is so simple that when I had a super-bug infection in my elbow I didn't think of it and ended up with mitochondrial damage from IV and oral antibiotics.

 

After the first IV antibiotic started causing a horrible outbreak on my legs and a bit on my arms because antibiotics destroy our microbiomes, the Dr. put me on another one, which continued to cause outbreaks.

 

So he put me on a twice daily oral, which was still causing more minor outbreaks, but the antibiotics still hadn't entirely killed the infection in my elbow.

 

An old friend and colleague - a clinical nutritionist said, "Why don't you soak your elbow in hydrogen peroxide and take baths with 32 oz of 3% hydrogen peroxide per full bath.

 

Hydrogen peroxide goes transdermal, so the first time I soaked my elbow the residual pink and slight swelling in my elbow were almost gone.

The next day's soaking killed the infection.

 

I have taken a number of the HP baths and they immediately killed the fungal infection that I've been dealing with in my toes.

A couple weeks later my toes are starting to look like young healthy toes - with no fungus.

 

As well, the outbreaks on my legs and arms are almost healed, thanks to hydrogen peroxide and some TB-500.

 

3% hydrogen peroxide doesn't damage skin when one soaks in a bath with 32 oz for 15 minutes.

 

But it does kill all the bugs/fungus, etc... that exist on skin.

 

It's an amazing medicine. Far superior to antibiotics in many respects, especially killing bugs without causing horrible side-effects.

 

Over $100,000 was spent on a hospital visit that didn't have to happen if I had known about $2 bottles of hydrogen peroxide.

 

No thanks to the MD's!

 

American conventional medicine sucks.

Edited by mikey, 10 February 2016 - 08:55 AM.

[Tom Andre F. (ex shinobi)]

If you do not want to mix up the whole batch, you will have to measure out the amount you want to mix.

 

I posted the mixing procedures I use a few days ago.

 

Let us know of your experiences.

 

Thats the problem.. I cant do that.. its too sticky and totally frozen.

 

 

Im really not sure of the quality control here.. How can people knwo their epitalon is still good when the freeze transport was not fully respected and when you allow it to be liquid etc ?? the quality can degrade very fast isnt ?

[G-e-e]

So I have now concluded a 10 day course of Epitalon @ 10mg subQ each day (5mg morning 5mg late afternoon).

 

While I was on it, my sebrhoeic dermatitis was at its worst. I've never seen my skin flake so badly. I will take this as a sign that some for of 'regeneration' is taking place or I'm just having a particularly severe outbreak. (am yet to try the hydrogen peroxide 3% suggestion to kill off any yeast/skin infection as discussed in this thread).

 

I am unsure if I can report back any particular improvement in wrinkles or skin condition at this stage. 

 

I can only assume that 10 days isn't enough to see any particular progress?

 

In your experience, does Epitalon continue to work the following weeks and months after you stop taking it?

 

I don't expect to see any miracles or even anything specific but it would be nice if i can at least anecdotally say it has made 'some' sort of difference.

 

 

[mikey]

So I have now concluded a 10 day course of Epitalon @ 10mg subQ each day (5mg morning 5mg late afternoon).

 

While I was on it, my sebrhoeic dermatitis was at its worst. I've never seen my skin flake so badly. I will take this as a sign that some for of 'regeneration' is taking place or I'm just having a particularly severe outbreak. (am yet to try the hydrogen peroxide 3% suggestion to kill off any yeast/skin infection as discussed in this thread).

 

I am unsure if I can report back any particular improvement in wrinkles or skin condition at this stage. 

 

I can only assume that 10 days isn't enough to see any particular progress?

 

In your experience, does Epitalon continue to work the following weeks and months after you stop taking it?

 

I don't expect to see any miracles or even anything specific but it would be nice if i can at least anecdotally say it has made 'some' sort of difference.

 

Hello G-e-e. 
http://www.nel.edu/p...havinson_wr.pdf provides details of several epithalimin and thymalin studies at 10 mg each, alone or combined and noted enduring effects at 4 months and over periods of years.

 

While I have administered epitalon subq by itself, for 10 day cycles a couple of times - and it seems to work - by far, the most profound effect, a big reduction in facial wrinkles, was noticed 4 days after starting a combination of Certropic's epitalon and Peptide Sciences' thymalin at 10 mg each, as per a study that showed the greatest beneficial effects occurred when the two were combined, but as the natural animal-derived peptides, epithalamin and thymalin.

 

I continue to experience compliments on my skin from friends that I haven't seen in a while, so the effects have endured.

 

I am going to do another cycle of the two in March, with the hope of again seeing a sizable leap backwards in facial skin aging.

[pure]

You are spreading/perpetuating misinformation.
Peptide Science's so-called Thymalin is not Khavinson's 'Thymalin' or a synthetic analogue thereof.
Hence your association of it with a published study (', as per'..) is duff.
If in doubt, ask them yourself what the sequence of their 'Thymalin' is.
And while you're at it, ask them what the actual sequence is of Khavinson's Thymalin and its synthetic analogue.
And.. enjoy the smoke screen, subterfuge, misinformation, and ambiguity ride..

Edited by pure, 18 February 2016 - 06:50 AM.

[pure]

And if you enjoy that ride, and want another, then ask them what the difference is between Mod. GRF (1-29) and CJC-1295 (Non-DAC).
While this 'ride' is off topic, if you need any further proof you are dealing with incompetent amateurs who know nothing and wouldn't have a clue what they're selling, then this is a ride you should take too.

[mikey]

mikey..
..cause chronic agonization of receptors/anything, is often associated with side effects.
The body secretes peptides as and when they are required AND for the duration required in order to regulate itself.
Note how the latest generation peptide based T2 diabetes drugs can cause side effects, yet their native endogenous peptides don't.
This is because the peptides in the latest T2D peptide drugs have been modified from their native endogenous structure such that they act longer (chronically agonize receptors) because they are more resistant to degradation.

 

I understand, pure, and I thank you.

 

After trying all three version of epitalon, I think that I experienced the most beneficial effects when I used simple epitalon, so I will likely only use that version going forward.

 

As to epitalon and thymalin used together, the most profound effect that I have experienced was using both Ceretropic's epitalon 10 mg./day and Peptide Sciences' thymalin 10 mg./day.

 

For general information, I am on day four of using Awakebrain's epitalon via their nasal spray bottles at 3 mg. twice a day and it seems to have slightly improved my cognitive functions as well as slightly improving my skin tone. 

 

I'm happy to have an option that I can share with friends and loved ones that do not want to administer anything with sharps subq.

 

Each spray is quite light and it doesn't irritate my sinus tissues or produce any feeling that there is any extra fluid overshooting and flowing down into my mouth. 

[mikey]

You are spreading/perpetuating misinformation.
Peptide Science's so-called Thymalin is not Khavinson's 'Thymalin' or a synthetic analogue thereof.
Hence your association of it with a published study (', as per'..) is duff.
If in doubt, ask them yourself what the sequence of their 'Thymalin' is.
And while you're at it, ask them what the actual sequence is of Khavinson's Thymalin and its synthetic analogue.
And.. enjoy the smoke screen, subterfuge, misinformation, and ambiguity ride..

 

Excuse me pure, but I understand that Khavinson didn't make a synthetic analog of thymalin, and I do not want to spread misinformation.

 

That's why I did give the caveat that the study was on the combination of the two naturally derived peptides, so my statement was complete.

 

Hopefully people have read what you said and what I said and consider them.

 

However, Peptide Sciences says, on the page that it's sold from that the peptide sequence of their "thymalin" is Pyr-L-Ala-L-Lys-L-Ser-L-Gln-Gly-Gly-L-Ser-L-Asn-OH, so that isn't a question.
 

What is a good question is whether that sequence is appropriate as a synthetic version of naturally-derived thymalin.

 

Wikipedia says that the sequence for "thymulin" is - H-Pyr-Ala-Lys-Ser-Gln-Gly-Gly-Ser-Asn-OH.

 

This looks to be basically the same as what Peptide Sciences says that they are selling.

 

However, I am not a chemist, so perhaps one of the chemists will comment on this.

 

I've tried several versions of epitalon from Ceretropic and Awakebrain and the time that I tried plain epitalon from Ceretropic combined with Peptide Sciences' "thymalin" was the time that I experienced the most profound improvement in facial wrinkles, so it would be good to know whether the peptide sequence that Peptide Sciences says they are selling is appropriate.

 

Of course, it would also be most telling if someone had the lab equipment to confirm what Peptide Sciences is selling.

 

If someone will do this, I will buy a batch of Peptide Sciences' "thymalin" to test.

Edited by mikey, 19 February 2016 - 06:06 AM.