88 replies to this topic

[kevinseven11]

Shifter I agree. Calcium supplements like those in antacids contain some form of alluminum that are neurotoxic and help cause some neurological diseases.

Fish oil and TAU are my must have supplements.
Uridine reduces the negative feelings when tired and allows me to functions normally. Besides sleep deprivation, nothing concerns me supplement wise.

[farang]

Based on a lot of experiments and trials, I have ended up with the following supplements. I try to keep the list short, but due to an inflammatory disease (psoriasis), I need to keep taking most of them.

Vit D3
Vit C
Selenium

Curcumin
CoenzQ10
Lipoic acid
Fish oil
Flax seed oil

Probiotics

This is anti-inflammatory combination that seems to work well for me.

Btw, I have tried low dosage aspirin, but the blood thinning effect was so much that I started to see blood in the semen, so I stopped taking asp and it's back to normal.

[niner]

I have done some research on magnesium stearate. It is a harmless substance.

unless you're allergic to it, which some people are. I've run across two such people.

[nowayout]

Based on a lot of experiments and trials, I have ended up with the following supplements. I try to keep the list short, but due to an inflammatory disease (psoriasis), I need to keep taking most of them.

Vit D3

Are you sure vit D3 helps autoimmune conditions? It is supposed to boost aspects of immune function (which could perhaps be bad for those of us with deranged immune systems) and a recent study claimed that above a certain minimum serum level, as low as 20 units, increasing vitamin D it may boost CRP, again a potentially bad sign for autoimmune patients. I am curious about this because of a diagnosis of spondylitis, a condition closely related to some forms of psoriasis.

Because of this condition, I have one must-have "supplement", namely Enbrel.

[smithx]

I have one must-have "supplement", namely Enbrel.

Enbrel has some horrible potential side effects, like cancer.

I strongly suggest you look into the effects of n-acetyl glucosamine on autoimmune diseases.

[nowayout]

I have one must-have "supplement", namely Enbrel.

Enbrel has some horrible potential side effects, like cancer.

I strongly suggest you look into the effects of n-acetyl glucosamine on autoimmune diseases.

The TNF-blocker-causes-cancer-in-adults hypothesis was pretty much disproved by recent multiyear studies on many thousands of adult patients in Europe. Also interesting, a recent study showed Enbrel caused a huge reduction of risk of dementia with aging. So in my opinion, the pain and disability of untreated spondylitis will take many more years off your life than Enbrel possibly could and make the ones you are left with too miserable to be worthwhile, and for many patients nothing but TNF blockers like Enbrel works.

I'll have a look at n-acetyl glucosamine, though.

Edited by viveutvivas, 21 January 2012 - 11:12 AM.

[smithx]

Enbrel still doesn't look very safe to me: http://www.ncbi.nlm....th/PMH0000193/#

Some more info on what I was alluding to regarding n-acetyl glucosamine:
http://www.medicalne...cles/235318.php

[farang]

Based on a lot of experiments and trials, I have ended up with the following supplements. I try to keep the list short, but due to an inflammatory disease (psoriasis), I need to keep taking most of them.

Vit D3

Are you sure vit D3 helps autoimmune conditions? It is supposed to boost aspects of immune function (which could perhaps be bad for those of us with deranged immune systems) and a recent study claimed that above a certain minimum serum level, as low as 20 units, increasing vitamin D it may boost CRP, again a potentially bad sign for autoimmune patients. I am curious about this because of a diagnosis of spondylitis, a condition closely related to some forms of psoriasis.

Because of this condition, I have one must-have "supplement", namely Enbrel.

I know Enbrel is used to treat psoriasis as well. I had a bad flare up some months ago and was thinking of starting Enbrel or similar. I wanted to try all other options though, so my approach has been two pronged.

1. Supplements as mentioned. I discussed with a doctor who a specialist in inflammatory diseases and he suggested the combination of curcumin + coenzQ10 + lipoic acid + flax seed oil

2. I have avoided certain food since I am quite sure they are triggers. For me they are: wheat/gluten, dairy products and chocolate. I cannot avoid them completely, but I eat as little as possible of this.

After a few months, I added fish oil to the flax seed oil since high doses of omega-3 seems to be very important to reduce inflammation. I have also tried to add glucosamine. I am definitely getting much better than I was. I have the feeling that the omega-3 oils are the most important, but let's see later when I try to reduce the supplements one by one.

[niner]

Enbrel still doesn't look very safe to me: http://www.ncbi.nlm....th/PMH0000193/#

Welcome to risk - reward tradeoffs. If I had AS, I would take Enbrel in a heartbeat.

[jCole]

Food
Fish Oil EPA/DHA
D3
B-Complex

[Logan]

Based on a lot of experiments and trials, I have ended up with the following supplements. I try to keep the list short, but due to an inflammatory disease (psoriasis), I need to keep taking most of them.

Vit D3

Are you sure vit D3 helps autoimmune conditions? It is supposed to boost aspects of immune function (which could perhaps be bad for those of us with deranged immune systems) and a recent study claimed that above a certain minimum serum level, as low as 20 units, increasing vitamin D it may boost CRP, again a potentially bad sign for autoimmune patients. I am curious about this because of a diagnosis of spondylitis, a condition closely related to some forms of psoriasis.

Because of this condition, I have one must-have "supplement", namely Enbrel.

How about LDN? I would try this before Enbrel.

[Wolf]

Multi-Vitamin
Milk Thistle
Hawthorn Berries Extract
Fish Oil
Zinc
Probiotics
Magnesium
Whey Protein

That's probably my main stack right now. I'm finishing off some Krill Oil right now. The difference in price for Krill Oil compared to Fish Oil just seems too big to make it worth it. I also have psoriasis so I'm on Humira. I was on Embrel before but it stopped working as well. And as for it being bad for you, I suppose it's best to hope for the cure of cancer by the time you get it. Now I'm curious about n-acetyl glucosamine though. That might be an interesting thing to add to my stack and try.

[nowayout]

How about LDN? I would try this before Enbrel.

I did try LDN. Unfortunately it did nothing for AS symptoms and made me feel like I would rather be dead, with severe agitation and pain, likely endorphin withdrawal, since it felt like opioid withdrawal. I don't know how anyone can tolerate LDN.

Edited by viveutvivas, 23 January 2012 - 12:22 PM.

[nowayout]

Whatever happened to ALCAR? The evidence behind it against symptoms of aging seemed quite dramatic (especially those images showing mitochondria becoming youthful-looking again), yet nobody seems to talk about it any more.

Edited by viveutvivas, 23 January 2012 - 02:00 PM.

[Logan]

How about LDN? I would try this before Enbrel.

I did try LDN. Unfortunately it did nothing for AS symptoms and made me feel like I would rather be dead, with severe agitation and pain, likely endorphin withdrawal,since it felt like opioid withdrawal. I don't know how anyone can tolerateLDN.

What dose did you start at? Some are starting as low as .5 mg and ending up at 2 or 3 mg.

Th


Some of the adjustments your immune system goes through May have something to do Sith feeling like shit. You may just need to state very low, and give the treatment longer than you expected.

[1kgcoffee]

My own *must have* supplements right now:
-Olive leaf extract
-curcumin
-tocotrienols
-vitamin D & K
-hot water extract of roots and barks
-methyl b12

I take others but those are the essentials.

Whatever happened to ALCAR? The evidence behind it against symptoms of aging seemed quite dramatic (especially those images showing mitochondria becoming youthful-looking again), yet nobody seems to talk about it any more.

It may have been the ALA, or something else, but I noticed some hair loss while on ALCAR. Its something that should be taken by aging and sedentary people, not healthy and active.

[niner]

Whatever happened to ALCAR? The evidence behind it against symptoms of aging seemed quite dramatic (especially those images showing mitochondria becoming youthful-looking again), yet nobody seems to talk about it any more.

It may have been the ALA, or something else, but I noticed some hair loss while on ALCAR. Its something that should be taken by aging and sedentary people, not healthy and active.

I'm healthy and active, and I like ALCAR. The thing I most noticed was a boost in cardiovascular stamina in the gym. If I was sedentary I don't think I'd notice anything. It's probably more beneficial for older people than it is for young people.

[hooter]

High dose piracetam with fish oil
BCAAs
Vitamin D
White Tea

Well ain't that simple enough

For anyone interested: If you're under 40, do not take more than 500mg of ALCAR. It really is for the old and sedentary. There's enough studies that show it can be detrimental if used in too high doses or too early in life.

Edited by hooter, 24 January 2012 - 12:01 PM.

[niner]

For anyone interested: If you're under 40, do not take more than 500mg of ALCAR. It really is for the old and sedentary. There's enough studies that show it can be detrimental if used in too high doses or too early in life.

Could you point us to one of those studies, particularly regarding use in young people? I agree that it could be detrimental if used in too high a dosage, since that's true of virtually everything. I've not heard that it's a problem if used too early, but that may well be true depending on how early. I certainly wouldn't give it to kids, for example. I don't doubt that it's helpful for the sedentary, but you don't need to be sedentary to benefit from it.

[hooter]

For anyone interested: If you're under 40, do not take more than 500mg of ALCAR. It really is for the old and sedentary. There's enough studies that show it can be detrimental if used in too high doses or too early in life.

Could you point us to one of those studies, particularly regarding use in young people? I agree that it could be detrimental if used in too high a dosage, since that's true of virtually everything. I've not heard that it's a problem if used too early, but that may well be true depending on how early. I certainly wouldn't give it to kids, for example. I don't doubt that it's helpful for the sedentary, but you don't need to be sedentary to benefit from it.

http://www.longecity...d-dose-ranging/ Here is a thread mentioning it.

As for the studies I'm referencing, I'm afraid I can't find them at the moment but if it helps anyone they were about calculating dosage levels based on age. I believe it was on this or another nootropic related forum and someone posted medical data to back their data up. It does create free radicals and affect the cholinergic system, so it at least makes sense.

They claimed that in youth alcar should be avoided and that one should take a dosage that is a certain multiplier of your age. I'm really interested in seeing the research again, so post it if you come across it.

Edited by hooter, 24 January 2012 - 02:54 PM.

[motorcitykid]

b vitamins
zinc (not high enough even with high zinc foods)
antiinflamatorys to kill pain
adatogen herbs (ginseng,ashwaganda,astragalus,gotukola)
mitochondrial (b alanine, alcar,ala)
sleep (melatonin)

thats what i think you need for a basic foundation

That might be what you need, but it's not what I need, and I suspect it's not what a lot of people need. Anti-inflammatories to kill pain are a medical application. I don't have a chronic pain problem, so I don't need them in a basic foundation. I occasionally use them as needed.

I get enough b vitamins from diet, so I don't think I need those. I'm doing pretty well without adaptogens; I've tried some, but they didn't make the grade. Maybe I'm missing the boat there, but they strike me as things that one might need to correct for a particular condition, and not part of a basic foundation.

I don't think young healthy people need melatonin, though it might be good for older people or possibly for people with sleep problems. It would probably be better to work on basic sleep hygiene first before jumping into substances.

Ahh, Niner I see you've excluded some of my favorites from your regimen-a multi, Coq10, astragalus, and ginko biloba. I'm sure at some point, you considered the pros and cons of adding these guys to your personal supp regimen. I'm curious as to why you ultimately chose to keep them in the bottle.

[nowayout]

Not niner but possible reasons for exclusing co-q10 is that it has deleterious effects on rodent heart tissue (see Michael's posts on these forums). As for "adaptogens", Astragalus and Gingko Biloba, I don't think we really have any clue what they are doing in the body and whether they help or hurt on the long run.

[niner]

CoQ10 is great in the elderly or those on statins. The mouse data on it doesn't look promising. Gingko spikes my blood pressure, which was counterintuitive to me, but my doctor claims he's seen it before. If it wasn't for that, I'd probably be using it, though it's not the kind of supplement that I would recommend to everyone as a core item. Multis are a really tough one. I used a multi for a long time, but eventually dumped it. The straw that broke the camel's back on that was the copper content, which was high in the multi I was using. Subsequently I've gotten wary of synthetic folate, which is the monoglutamate form. Food folate is a polyglutamate. The data on folate and cancer is kind of muddy. I have a pretty good diet these days, so I'm probably getting what I need, but I also individually supplement some of the other things that might be found in a multi. If I wasn't getting K, D, magnesium, selenium, and iodine already, then I'd probably be using Vimmortal. I have to admit, some of the data on long term multi use is pretty attractive, but the comparison there is to someone who isn't supplementing anything and probably has a lousy diet as well. Astragalus is something that I haven't explored, so I'm agnostic on that. I suspect I'll be using cycloastragenol one of these days. I have some time to sit around and wait for more telomere length and outcome data to come rolling in, so I'll wait til the picture is clearer.

[motorcitykid]

CoQ10 is great in the elderly or those on statins. The mouse data on it doesn't look promising. Gingko spikes my blood pressure, which was counterintuitive to me, but my doctor claims he's seen it before. If it wasn't for that, I'd probably be using it, though it's not the kind of supplement that I would recommend to everyone as a core item. Multis are a really tough one. I used a multi for a long time, but eventually dumped it. The straw that broke the camel's back on that was the copper content, which was high in the multi I was using. Subsequently I've gotten wary of synthetic folate, which is the monoglutamate form. Food folate is a polyglutamate. The data on folate and cancer is kind of muddy. I have a pretty good diet these days, so I'm probably getting what I need, but I also individually supplement some of the other things that might be found in a multi. If I wasn't getting K, D, magnesium, selenium, and iodine already, then I'd probably be using Vimmortal. I have to admit, some of the data on long term multi use is pretty attractive, but the comparison there is to someone who isn't supplementing anything and probably has a lousy diet as well. Astragalus is something that I haven't explored, so I'm agnostic on that. I suspect I'll be using cycloastragenol one of these days. I have some time to sit around and wait for more telomere length and outcome data to come rolling in, so I'll wait til the picture is clearer.

Thank yoiu sir!! There were some abstracts on Coq10 that looked promising. Here's one on Alzheimers:

http://www.dreliaz.o...heimers-disease

I take Coq10 every other day and monitor my Coq10 blood levels. Last blood test showed it to be on the high end of normal. Do you have your Coq10 blood levels monitored?

[zm3thod]

I've been taking it back to basics lately...

Daily Core:
Multivitamin (AOR multibasics)
2g Fish oil
1-2g Magnesium malate
Probiotics (assorted)
5000iu D3 1-2x per week

For study days:
500mg ALCAR
250mg CDP-Choline AND/OR 300mg Alpha GPC

Edited by zm3thod, 31 January 2012 - 05:11 AM.

[niner]

Multivitamin (AOR multibasics)
1-2g Magnesium malate

What's your total dose of magnesium (including from the multi and diet) in elemental terms? I'm guessing that by 2g of mag malate, you're including the weight of the malate counterion. If not, you might be getting too much.

[zm3thod]

Multivitamin (AOR multibasics)
1-2g Magnesium malate

What's your total dose of magnesium (including from the multi and diet) in elemental terms? I'm guessing that by 2g of mag malate, you're including the weight of the malate counterion. If not, you might be getting too much.

1g magnesium malate = 150mg, 1 cap multibasics = 25mg

So at most I'm getting 350mg elemental from supplements, if I take two magnesium and two multi-basics (often I only take one of each).

[nowayout]

I'm surprised no one has mentioned creatine. Extends healthy lifespan in mice and reduces lipofuscin. A very safe supplement, so the potential for harm is low while the potential for benefit is high:

http://www.neurobiol...0111-X/abstract

Edited by viveutvivas, 04 February 2012 - 08:53 PM.

[niner]

I'm surprised no one has mentioned creatine. Extends healthy lifespan in mice and reduces lipofuscin. A very safe supplement, so the potential for harm is low while the potential for benefit is high:

http://www.neurobiol...0111-X/abstract

Wish I could use it; it makes my hair fall out. Turns out it raises DHT.