83 replies to this topic

[ScienceGuy]

Back to the main question if it needs to be cycled........ Russianbear seems to have taken it for 6 months with no serious consequences although there was still some longterm effect issues.

He didn't notice any longterm problems which might hint that it's probably not a big deal taking it for more than a month at a time so it probably doesn't need to be cycled but its probably not economical, and this is the only post I've found that talks about longterm use (more than 1 month at a time). I don't know what else to add, except cerebrolysin in my body.

Nice one Gamerzneed!

I read russianBEAR's feedback regarding his use of CEREBROLYSIN when I read through the entire CEREBROLYSIN thread, but I somehow missed his comment about his taking it for 6 months... that's what happens when you try to read an 18-page thread in a hurry!

[evo]

I for one have been been taking 5mL IM daily for a few months now, along with my base supplement stack:

- L-Arginine
- L-Tyrosine
- B-Vitamin Complex
- Omega 3/6/9 Complex
- Gingko Biloba
- ALCAR
- PQQ
- Coq10
- Magnesium Glycinate
- Alpha-lipoic Acid
- Phosphatidyl Choline/Serine

I have had a couple blood panels done recently for unrelated reasons, and at the very least I can report that hormone levels, blood lipid profile, and blood pressure all appear to be normal. Additionally, I believe most of the neurotrophic effects experienced from Cerebrolysin are due primarily to the increase in NGF and BDNF which in turn stimulates neurogenesis and neuro-protective action and as such have focused most of my research on these particular proteins. My first concern was the modulation/down-regulation of NGF/BDNF/NT-3 sensitivity with prolonged use, however given the extremely short half-life of these compounds, I think this is highly unlikely. I have supplemented with HGH on occasion for several months (which has a half life of roughly 2 hours, suppression period of 4hrs for a SubQ injection), and despite a high dosage, my IGF-1 levels always seem to stabilize in short order... Because the half-lives of both BDNF and NGF are shorter, I'm assuming this corollary holds true, but with the caveat that I have no medical data currently to confirm this.

A couple things I've been concerned/curious about:

1) The link between increased BDNF and psychosis; I am a daily Marijuana smoker (for sleep only), and I recently read some interesting studies about the correlation between BDNF and psychosis. It seems as though the effects of BDNF are universally positive, however I have seen several studies indicating that subjects who experience(d) psychotic episodes have significantly raised BDNF levels. Whether this is the brain's attempt to compensate for the other issues occurring or the correlation is bi-directional, I am unsure. The reality is that we don't currently know the full extent of the role BDNF plays in the pathogenesis of neurodegenerative disorders like psychosis & schizophrenia, so this likely merits further investigation. It seems as though these 3 key neurotrophic proteins are generated by the body as an adaptive response to hypoxia, so whether or not increased levels of these proteins triggers any other effects that may be undesirable would be valuable to know.

2) Would there be any rebound effect on the production of loosely-correlated compounds such as TNF-a / IGF-1 after cessation of chronic use in a healthy individual? Despite the presumed absence of receptor sensitivity down-regulation, several studies have shown that administration of Cerebrolysin significantly increases IGF-1 and decreases TNF-a; Assuming prolonged use, I am still trying to determine if these positive effects are caused indirectly by the reparative functions of Cerebrolysin, or if they are modulated relative to serum levels of BDNF and NGF. If they are the latter, it is quite possible that cessation after long-term, consistent use could trigger an undesired rebound.


That said, given the fact that it is neuro-protective and not an agonist (as previously stated), combined with personal experience, I'm willing to tentatively assume its safety; There are, however, still many unknowns that I'm curious about and do not have the answers to so in no way am I making these claims with any semblance of certainty. I also do not know if these questions CAN be reliably answered, given this substance's complex mechanism of action and lack of reliable biomarkers to profile some of its effects/side-effects. Nevertheless, I have noticed incredible results, and do believe that I will continue to take Cerebrolysin daily for the indefinite future.


On an unrelated note; I recall reading somewhere that the Cerebrolysin peptide is rather large and that one should use a 21.5g or larger needle to avoid potentially damaging the molecular structure during injection. I don't mind the 21g needles so I figured it was better to err on the side of efficacy, however if this is entirely unfounded (which I have a suspicion it might be), I would love to know--moving up to 25g would, I'm sure, significantly reduce scar tissue buildup.

Edited by lmlj, 15 January 2012 - 10:17 PM.

[ScienceGuy]

I for one have been been taking 5mL IM daily for a few months now, along with my base supplement stack:

- L-Arginine
- L-Tyrosine
- B-Vitamin Complex
- Omega 3/6/9 Complex
- Gingko Biloba
- ALCAR
- PQQ
- Coq10
- Magnesium Glycinate
- Alpha-lipoic Acid
- Phosphatidyl Choline/Serine

I have had a couple blood panels done recently for unrelated reasons, and at the very least I can report that hormone levels, blood lipid profile, and blood pressure all appear to be normal. Additionally, I believe most of the neurotrophic effects experienced from Cerebrolysin are due primarily to the increase in NGF and BDNF which in turn stimulates neurogenesis and neuro-protective action and as such have focused most of my research on these particular proteins. My first concern was the modulation/down-regulation of NGF/BDNF/NT-3 sensitivity with prolonged use, however given the extremely short half-life of these compounds, I think this is highly unlikely. I have supplemented with HGH on occasion for several months (which has a half life of roughly 2 hours, suppression period of 4hrs for a SubQ injection), and despite a high dosage, my IGF-1 levels always seem to stabilize in short order... Because the half-lives of both BDNF and NGF are shorter, I'm assuming this corollary holds true, but with the caveat that I have no medical data currently to confirm this.

A couple things I've been concerned/curious about:

1) The link between increased BDNF and psychosis; I am a daily Marijuana smoker (for sleep only), and I recently read some interesting studies about the correlation between BDNF and psychosis. It seems as though the effects of BDNF are universally positive, however I have seen several studies indicating that subjects who experience(d) psychotic episodes have significantly raised BDNF levels. Whether this is the brain's attempt to compensate for the other issues occurring or the correlation is bi-directional, I am unsure. The reality is that we don't currently know the full extent of the role BDNF plays in the pathogenesis of neurodegenerative disorders like psychosis & schizophrenia, so this likely merits further investigation. It seems as though these 3 key neurotrophic proteins are generated by the body as an adaptive response to hypoxia, so whether or not increased levels of these proteins triggers any other effects that may be undesirable would be valuable to know.

2) Would there be any rebound effect on the production of loosely-correlated compounds such as TNF-a / IGF-1 after cessation of chronic use in a healthy individual? Despite the presumed absence of receptor sensitivity down-regulation, several studies have shown that administration of Cerebrolysin significantly increases IGF-1 and decreases TNF-a; Assuming prolonged use, I am still trying to determine if these positive effects are caused indirectly by the reparative functions of Cerebrolysin, or if they are modulated relative to serum levels of BDNF and NGF. If they are the latter, it is quite possible that cessation after long-term, consistent use could trigger an undesired rebound.


That said, given the fact that it is neuro-protective and not an agonist (as previously stated), combined with personal experience, I'm willing to tentatively assume its safety; There are, however, still many unknowns that I'm curious about and do not have the answers to so in no way am I making these claims with any semblance of certainty. I also do not know if these questions CAN be reliably answered, given this substance's complex mechanism of action and lack of reliable biomarkers to profile some of its effects/side-effects. Nevertheless, I have noticed incredible results, and do believe that I will continue to take Cerebrolysin daily for the indefinite future.


On an unrelated note; I recall reading somewhere that the Cerebrolysin peptide is rather large and that one should use a 21.5g or larger needle to avoid potentially damaging the molecular structure during injection. I don't mind the 21g needles so I figured it was better to err on the side of efficacy, however if this is entirely unfounded (which I have a suspicion it might be), I would love to know--moving up to 25g would, I'm sure, significantly reduce scar tissue buildup.

Thank you for the very informative post. Brilliant!

RE: "I also do not know if these questions CAN be reliably answered, given this substance's complex mechanism of action and lack of reliable biomarkers to profile some of its effects/side-effects" - I think you've pretty much answered your questions 1 & 2 yourself here... Though I do think that if there was the potential for a rebound effect it would have manifested itself at least somewhere within the trials run to date, and given its mechanism of action I personally believe the potential for a rebound effect to be highly unlikely.

RE: "I recall reading somewhere that the Cerebrolysin peptide is rather large" - Actually, I think it is the opposite... see this information that I extracted from FAQ on CEREBROLYSIN (incidentally I ALWAYS use a 25 gauge needle for IM injections):

Can Cerebrolysin® cross the blood brain barrier?

Due to their small size, the peptides of Cerebrolysin® are able to cross the blood-brain barrier. Evidence for blood-brain barrier passage has been established by investigations performed by Dr. Frey (St. Paul / Minnesota) using autoradiography and quantitative gamma counting of radioactively (iodine125) labelled Cerebrolysin® peptides in brain slices. Significant uptake of the peptides to various brain structures across the blood-brain barrier has been demonstrated in this study. Moreover, experimental studies have shown that the pharmacodynamic action of Cerebrolysin® is essentially similar after peripheral or intracerebral / intracerebroventricular administration of Cerebrolysin® . This finding provides further indirect evidence that the peptides of Cerebrolysin® pass through the BBB in pharmacodynamically significant amounts.

Edited by ScienceGuy, 16 January 2012 - 07:33 PM.

[Ben]

Hey ScienceGuy, very keen to read your journal on using this substance.

[hooter]

1) The link between increased BDNF and psychosis; I am a daily Marijuana smoker (for sleep only), and I recently read some interesting studies about the correlation between BDNF and psychosis. It seems as though the effects of BDNF are universally positive, however I have seen several studies indicating that subjects who experience(d) psychotic episodes have significantly raised BDNF levels. Whether this is the brain's attempt to compensate for the other issues occurring or the correlation is bi-directional, I am unsure. The reality is that we don't currently know the full extent of the role BDNF plays in the pathogenesis of neurodegenerative disorders like psychosis & schizophrenia, so this likely merits further investigation. It seems as though these 3 key neurotrophic proteins are generated by the body as an adaptive response to hypoxia, so whether or not increased levels of these proteins triggers any other effects that may be undesirable would be valuable to know.

That would be the case in bipolar mania. I believe that those cases are mislabeled as 'psychotic' episodes because they are mixed manic states occurring in undiagnosed or misdiagnosed patients. There is enough evidence showing that amplification of ngf can induce mania in those predisposed to it. Hydergine and buspirone cause this for example, and very spectacularly at that.

In bipolar mania the problems are related to over-activity of the brain in an amphetamine-like experience. I assume BDNF works very strongly in the parts implicated with the disorder. This could be why SSRIs worsen the state of bipolars. Many purely neurotrophic substances can lead to manic states.

Certain cannabinoids have been shown to increase BDNF. So we could ironically be looking at the positive effect of neuroregeneration but stay frightened of it because of the bipolar reaction to NGF.

However I do not think the reaction is direct. NGF seems to induce a sharpening of senses and and increase influx of stimuli. Bipolars are naturally predisposed to experiencing extreme sensory input and unnaturally potent emotions. If you add these two together you create an exorbitant amount of stress.

Stress is implicated in bipolar disorder as the main trigger for depressive and/or manic states. When many of these people are exposed to such stimuli, they cannot handle the stress and are triggered into an episode.

I used to have reactions like this from cannabis and piracetam. I assumed this would be permanent. But then I realized that it must be a reaction to stress and decided to ignore it. Once I learned how to recognize the beginning of an episode, they stopped occurring entirely.

In face of a paranoia idea popping into your mind, just assume the golden rule of "who cares" and chill out. I've never had a bad reaction ever again.

A very bad idea would be to smoke cigarettes while taking Cerebrolysin, the chronic neuropsychological effects of tobacco include emotional regression and vastly increased anxiety. This is not something you want embedded or reinforced.

Edited by hooter, 18 January 2012 - 10:45 AM.

[ScienceGuy]

Hey ScienceGuy, very keen to read your journal on using this substance.

I've just placed my initial order for the CEREBROLYSIN with DRUGSPRO.

Hopefully it won't take ages to arrive...

Edited by ScienceGuy, 18 January 2012 - 07:02 PM.

[insider007]

Hi Scienceguy,

This is an interesting thread. I am not a medical doctor and do not play one on television!

A 23 g need sounds sufficient for injection with a draw up needle of 21g 1.5 inch for a draw up. Use a high protein binding syringe filter as the stuff will come in glass viles. Acrodisc 13 mm .2 um is a decent filter if sterilized for a 5 ml dose. General nursing textbooks indicate not to inject more than 5 ml into any one site at a time. Also, do check your creatine levels and kidney function periodically if you plan to use this stuff more than a month. I am sure I am already preaching to the choir, but better safe than sorry.

Now, onto a more serious issue of the rebound effect. Is there any evidence or studies out there about a rebound effect of cognitive ability? Russianbear seems to note a rebound effect in mood and depressive levels, and that once off the stuff, people turn to baseline. Can that be offset with dark chocolate and serotonin uptake or B12? Does anyone here have any information as to whether a one month only dose at 10 ml might produce a rebound effect several months later? I read the work of one neuroscientist who indicated the neuroprotective effects last well beyond the medication's usage. After a cycle is over for a few weeks, would replacing cerebrolysin with another MAO inhibitor such as a 98% transresveratrol until before the next cycle offset any potential rebound effect?

I have also read about making NGF eye drops. Has anyone considered mixing up the routine with cerebrolysin and NGF eye drops? The problem is that getting the ingredients for the eye drops is very expensive. Keep me up to date on your progress.

Edited by insider007, 18 January 2012 - 08:13 PM.

[hooter]

If I had the means for eye drops I would most likely take them rather than cerebrolysin. More comfortable than injection and theoretically more effective. Also I think the effects would definitely be too much if mixed.

[evo]

ScienceGuy

In regards to the potential for rebound, just to play devil's advocate here, haven't most of those studies been conducted on older individuals suffering early or late stage symptoms of neurodegenerative disease? If so, the reality is these subjects are likely experiencing many health complications, and in most cases have a limited remaining lifespan. While I agree that a rebound effect is unlikely, absence of evidence does not always indicate evidence of absence. Has anyone been able to find studies that test either the effects of chronic Cerebrolysin treatment and/or the effects of Cerebrolysin administration in a young, healthy individual with normal neurotrophin levels?

Also just a heads up, I ordered from Drugs Pro as well this latest go-round (usually I use IAS) and it took roughly 15 days to arrive. I think that's the last time I'll order from them though, as I was a little perturbed by the chinese symbols below the hologram... After dealing with several chemical & peptide synthesis labs in China, I think injecting anything sourced from there is a very, very bad idea. See attached screens for reference.


hooter

It sounds like the same issue with cannabis--Cerebrolysin and increased NGF/BDNF production alone would not cause these states, but rather potentiate their triggers in predisposed individuals. Out of curiosity, has anyone diagnosed with bipolar/manic depressive disorder on these forums experimented with Cerebrolysin? It appears as though Cerebrolysin shows strong anxiolytic properties in many of the individuals on this board who have tried it, so I'm very curious as to whether this hypothesis has been tested.


insider007

I think that in order to determine what you're asking, a study is needed that monitors serum BDNF/NGF, aCH, NT-3/4 levels as well as oxidative stress and biomarkers of excitotoxicity in healthy individuals during continued use, as well as several months after cessation. To my knowledge a study like this has not been conducted to date...

In regards to the eye drops, does anyone have any data on the pharmacokinetics of an opthalmic solution?

[evo]

ScienceGuy

In regards to the potential for rebound, just to play devil's advocate here, haven't most of those studies been conducted on older individuals suffering early or late stage symptoms of neurodegenerative disease? If so, the reality is these subjects are likely experiencing many health complications, and in most cases have a limited remaining lifespan. While I agree that a rebound effect is unlikely, absence of evidence does not always indicate evidence of absence. Has anyone been able to find studies that test either the effects of chronic Cerebrolysin treatment and/or the effects of Cerebrolysin administration in a young, healthy individual with normal cognitive function?

Also just a heads up, I ordered from Drugs Pro as well this latest go-round (usually I use IAS) and it took roughly 15 days to arrive. I think that's the last time I'll order from them though, as I was a little perturbed by the chinese symbols below the hologram... After dealing with several chemical & peptide synthesis labs in China, I think injecting anything sourced from there is a very, very bad idea. See attached screens for reference.


hooter

It sounds like the same issue with cannabis--Cerebrolysin and increased NGF/BDNF production alone would not cause these states, but rather potentiate their triggers in predisposed individuals. Out of curiosity, has anyone diagnosed with bipolar/manic depressive disorder on these forums experimented with Cerebrolysin? It appears as though Cerebrolysin shows strong anxiolytic properties in many of the individuals on this board who have tried it, so I'm very curious as to whether this hypothesis has been tested.


insider007

I think that in order to determine what you're asking, a study is needed that monitors serum BDNF/NGF, aCH, NT-3/4 levels as well as oxidative stress and biomarkers of excitotoxicity in healthy individuals during continued use, as well as several months after cessation. To my knowledge a study like this has not been conducted to date...

In regards to the eye drops, does anyone have any data on the pharmacokinetics of an opthalmic solution?

Attached Files

•  crb.JPG   497.78KB   21 downloads

Edited by lmlj, 18 January 2012 - 09:14 PM.

[hooter]

I'm bipolar and cerebrolysin seems very relaxing. I haven't been depressed since, so I think it's a mood stabilizer of sorts.

[insider007]

ScienceGuy

In regards to the potential for rebound, just to play devil's advocate here, haven't most of those studies been conducted on older individuals suffering early or late stage symptoms of neurodegenerative disease? If so, the reality is these subjects are likely experiencing many health complications, and in most cases have a limited remaining lifespan. While I agree that a rebound effect is unlikely, absence of evidence does not always indicate evidence of absence. Has anyone been able to find studies that test either the effects of chronic Cerebrolysin treatment and/or the effects of Cerebrolysin administration in a young, healthy individual with normal cognitive function?

Also just a heads up, I ordered from Drugs Pro as well this latest go-round (usually I use IAS) and it took roughly 15 days to arrive. I think that's the last time I'll order from them though, as I was a little perturbed by the chinese symbols below the hologram... After dealing with several chemical & peptide synthesis labs in China, I think injecting anything sourced from there is a very, very bad idea. See attached screens for reference.


hooter

It sounds like the same issue with cannabis--Cerebrolysin and increased NGF/BDNF production alone would not cause these states, but rather potentiate their triggers in predisposed individuals. Out of curiosity, has anyone diagnosed with bipolar/manic depressive disorder on these forums experimented with Cerebrolysin? It appears as though Cerebrolysin shows strong anxiolytic properties in many of the individuals on this board who have tried it, so I'm very curious as to whether this hypothesis has been tested.


insider007

I think that in order to determine what you're asking, a study is needed that monitors serum BDNF/NGF, aCH, NT-3/4 levels as well as oxidative stress and biomarkers of excitotoxicity in healthy individuals during continued use, as well as several months after cessation. To my knowledge a study like this has not been conducted to date...

In regards to the eye drops, does anyone have any data on the pharmacokinetics of an opthalmic solution?

Scienceguy & Hooter

With regard to the eye drops, one would have to obtain beta NGF available at this link:

http://www.prospecbi...CFSMeDQodkBWe9Q

The beta NGF would have to be mixed with a saline solution. I have read the patent applications and could probably do it if someone wants to foot more than a $60K bill -- disclaimer not for human consumption of course, but scientific experiment and observation

I do not see any major rebound effects occurring with regard to cerebrolysin and young healthy people, but there are too few studies to be able to tell. Perhaps, going off of it could cause depression for those with a predisposition to depression, but of course, exercise, 90% dark chocolate, positive thinking, and a host of other activities and MAO inhibitors such as transresveratrol might mediate a rebound effect. This is where the science should concentrate when further studies are conducted on the substance.

I did see a rat study that used beta NGF eye drops and cerebrolysin in older rats, and this appeared to significantly increase the rat's ability to complete a maze. So, by parity of reasoning, the two drugs appear to work well together in animal studies.

[ScienceGuy]

Is there any evidence or studies out there about a rebound effect of cognitive ability?

Not as yet that I am aware of.

However, please note that it would be highly unsual for any substance with this particular mechanism of action and which has been shown not to develop tolerance to its effects to have a rebound effect.

...and that once off the stuff, people turn to baseline

Actually, my understanding is that is not the case at all; in fact, my hypothesis is that the suggested cycling regimen is specifically due to the fact that studies have demonstrated lasting effects for a significant time period following cessation, and hence to an extent one can reap the benefits of continuous therapeutic beneficial effects without having to administer CEREBROLYSIN continuously.

Can that be offset with dark chocolate...

You might want to bear in mind that research has demonstrated, contrary to popular belief, that chocolate is essentially a 'bad deal' in that it induces mood disruption, including depression. Take this study for example:

Arch Intern Med. 2010 Apr 26;170(8):699-703.

Mood food: chocolate and depressive symptoms in a cross-sectional analysis.

Rose N, Koperski S, Golomb BA.

Source
Department of Medicine, University of California, San Diego, 9500 Gilman Dr, MC 0995, La Jolla, CA 92093-0995, USA.

Abstract

BACKGROUND:
Much lore but few studies describe a relation of chocolate to mood. We examined the cross-sectional relationship of chocolate consumption with depressed mood in adult men and women.

METHODS:
A sample of 1018 adults (694 men and 324 women) from San Diego, California, without diabetes or known coronary artery disease was studied in a cross-sectional analysis. The 931 subjects who were not using antidepressant medications and provided chocolate consumption information were the focus of the analysis. Mood was assessed using the Center for Epidemiologic Studies Depression Scale (CES-D). Cut points signaling a positive depression screen result (CES-D score, >or=16) and probable major depression (CES-D score, >or=22) were used. Chocolate servings per week were provided by 1009 subjects. Chocolate consumption frequency and rate data from the Fred Hutchinson Food Frequency Questionnaire were also available for 839 subjects. Chocolate consumption was compared for those with lower vs higher CES-D scores. In addition, a test of trend was performed.

RESULTS:

Those screening positive for possible depression (CES-D score >or=16) had higher chocolate consumption (8.4 servings per month) than those not screening positive (5.4 servings per month) (P = .004); those with still higher CES-D scores (>or=22) had still higher chocolate consumption (11.8 servings per month) (P value for trend, <.01). These associations extended to both men and women. These findings did not appear to be explained by a general increase in fat, carbohydrate, or energy intake.

CONCLUSION:

Higher CES-D depression scores were associated with greater chocolate consumption. Whether there is a causal connection, and if so in which direction, is a matter for future prospective study.

Russianbear seems to note a rebound effect in mood and depressive levels...Does anyone here have any information as to whether a one month only dose at 10 ml might produce a rebound effect several months later? I read the work of one neuroscientist who indicated the neuroprotective effects last well beyond the medication's usage. After a cycle is over for a few weeks, would replacing cerebrolysin with another MAO inhibitor such as a 98% transresveratrol until before the next cycle offset any potential rebound effect?

I think we first need to ascertain IF there is in fact any potential for CEREBROLYSIN to induce a rebound effect. So far, there is NOTHING contained within the many studies that have indicated as such, nor is it likely given CEREBROLYSIN's mechanism of action. All we have is a single user report. More user feedback will be helpful in this regard and I will most certainly do my bit to contribute towards this by posting my personal experiences regarding using CEREBROLYSIN.

[ScienceGuy]

I'm bipolar and cerebrolysin seems very relaxing. I haven't been depressed since, so I think it's a mood stabilizer of sorts.

Very interesting! Thanks for the feedback.

[ScienceGuy]

In regards to the potential for rebound, just to play devil's advocate here, haven't most of those studies been conducted on older individuals suffering early or late stage symptoms of neurodegenerative disease? If so, the reality is these subjects are likely experiencing many health complications, and in most cases have a limited remaining lifespan. While I agree that a rebound effect is unlikely, absence of evidence does not always indicate evidence of absence. Has anyone been able to find studies that test either the effects of chronic Cerebrolysin treatment and/or the effects of Cerebrolysin administration in a young, healthy individual with normal cognitive function?

Also just a heads up, I ordered from Drugs Pro as well this latest go-round (usually I use IAS) and it took roughly 15 days to arrive. I think that's the last time I'll order from them though, as I was a little perturbed by the chinese symbols below the hologram... After dealing with several chemical & peptide synthesis labs in China, I think injecting anything sourced from there is a very, very bad idea. See attached screens for reference.

You are absolutely right of course that there does not currently appear to be comprehensive substantive evidence to 100% demonstrate whether or not there is the potential for manifstation of a rebound effect with CEREBROLYSIN, and you are right about the demographics of the various studies; however, it is useful to note that the various studies do indicate that no tolerance to the effects of CEREBROLYSIN seems to occur, and in view of this and the absence of ANY reports of a rebound effect in any of the various studies, which is something that if it did occur would almost certainly be reported, is to an extent supportive of there not being the potential for inducing a rebound effect.

It would be useful to be able to couple with this a varety of user feedback reports, which unfortunately at the present time are somewhat lacking; however, I will endevour to contribute towards rectifying this by posting my personal experience with CEREBROLYSIN.

Edited by ScienceGuy, 19 January 2012 - 02:10 PM.

[sunshinefrost]

2) Would there be any rebound effect on the production of loosely-correlated compounds such as TNF-a / IGF-1 after cessation of chronic use in a healthy individual? Despite the presumed absence of receptor sensitivity down-regulation, several studies have shown that administration of Cerebrolysin significantly increases IGF-1 and decreases TNF-a; Assuming prolonged use, I am still trying to determine if these positive effects are caused indirectly by the reparative functions of Cerebrolysin, or if they are modulated relative to serum levels of BDNF and NGF. If they are the latter, it is quite possible that cessation after long-term, consistent use could trigger an undesired rebound.

let's hope it's the reparative functions, but why would there be a rebound, and a rebound on what ?

On an unrelated note; I recall reading somewhere that the Cerebrolysin peptide is rather large and that one should use a 21.5g or larger needle to avoid potentially damaging the molecular structure during injection. I don't mind the 21g needles so I figured it was better to err on the side of efficacy, however if this is entirely unfounded (which I have a suspicion it might be), I would love to know--moving up to 25g would, I'm sure, significantly reduce scar tissue buildup.

I definitly use the 25g cerebrolysin doesn't appear to have viscosity at all.

[sunshinefrost]

Also just a heads up, I ordered from Drugs Pro as well this latest go-round (usually I use IAS) and it took roughly 15 days to arrive. I think that's the last time I'll order from them though, as I was a little perturbed by the chinese symbols below the hologram... After dealing with several chemical & peptide synthesis labs in China, I think injecting anything sourced from there is a very, very bad idea. See attached screens for reference.

It usually take a whole month for Drugs pro's Cere to get to me. I've ordered a few times and never saw any asian symboles oon the hollographic sticker. There is a date on the boxes. My last batch was made in 2011 and expire in 2016. There are numbers that are printed on that same sticker. It seems to be a batch number. I know what i received was legit since tried it... Have you tried it ? Maybe you could give Ebewe a call with that serial number.

Edited by sunshinefrost, 20 January 2012 - 08:04 AM.

[ScienceGuy]

Maybe you could give Ebewe a call with that serial number.

Thanks Sunshinefrost! That's an EXCELLENT suggestion regarding how to verify whether one's CEREBROLYSIN is genuine or not! Brilliant!

[sparkk51]

So, have you begun taking cerebrolysin ScienceGuy?

[hooter]

ScienceGuy

In regards to the potential for rebound, just to play devil's advocate here, haven't most of those studies been conducted on older individuals suffering early or late stage symptoms of neurodegenerative disease?

I remember Russians doing lots of studies for Cerebrolysin for ADHD in children. Apparently some psychiatrists there use it readily for this purpose. It's only peptides, there shouldn't be a rational reason why it would mess with lifespan. If anything, it would theoretically increase it.

[ScienceGuy]

So, have you begun taking cerebrolysin ScienceGuy?

YES, I have completed my trial of CEREBROLYSIN.

In short, after getting all excited about it, I suffered an ABNORMAL response akin to an ALLERGIC REACTION; which may or may not be due to my residual ENCEPHALITIS, so it is currently shelved in my 'TO-TRY-AGAIN-AT-A-LATER-DATE' cupboard

So unfortunately, for this reason I have not been able to carry out my prolonged experiment without cycling it after all... oh well

[themastadon]

So, have you begun taking cerebrolysin ScienceGuy?

YES, I have completed my trial of CEREBROLYSIN.

In short, after getting all excited about it, I suffered an ABNORMAL response akin to an ALLERGIC REACTION; which may or may not be due to my residual ENCEPHALITIS, so it is currently shelved in my 'TO-TRY-AGAIN-AT-A-LATER-DATE' cupboard

So unfortunately, for this reason I have not been able to carry out my prolonged experiment without cycling it after all... oh well

That's a bummer :(

How "abnormal" was the response?

[ScienceGuy]

So, have you begun taking cerebrolysin ScienceGuy?

YES, I have completed my trial of CEREBROLYSIN.

In short, after getting all excited about it, I suffered an ABNORMAL response akin to an ALLERGIC REACTION; which may or may not be due to my residual ENCEPHALITIS, so it is currently shelved in my 'TO-TRY-AGAIN-AT-A-LATER-DATE' cupboard

So unfortunately, for this reason I have not been able to carry out my prolonged experiment without cycling it after all... oh well

That's a bummer :(

How "abnormal" was the response?

VERY

[Joe Black]

If it is of any interest, I did a cycle of cere 4 months ago or so, and just finished my 2nd, i just ordered my 3rd because I want to experiment with different cycles. I know that in the 4th week of cere you are literally on top of the world because of the past 3 weeks, the first more or less is just to load up to threshold. I'm thinking first of all, there might be a certain benefit to doing the first 10 days straight without a break. Then from there doing 3 weeks of 5 on 2 off, then finally the last 10 days 1 on 1 off.

Since I'm triple fucked as far as altzheimers goes, my grandmother died form it, my mom is dying from it, and my remaining grandmother was just diagnosed with it. I've always also had horrible memory, from birth! I also have quite severe attention defecit disorder, primarily inattentive no hyperactivity. I'm extremely bright, I just can't pay attention to something unless I want to. Not the greatest for working a computer programming job. Great for creative stuff though!

On top of that, I did a 7 month course of 80mg accutane daily when I was 20, I think this screwed me up even worse. Brain fog galore! I weigh about 110 lbs so that's alot of accutane to give a kid like me at that age! I've been on a high dose of adderall due to tolerance for quite sometime and quite honestly I want to take a proactive approach to preventing possible dementia, and hopefully titrate down my dosage of adderall and replace it with some ampakines and selegenine.

[FDA Approved]

I've been interested in trying Cerebrolsin for as long as there are threads on it and I've also been hoping that a cheaper source than ias and drugspro will emerge, as $300 - $350 are way too much for me for a months worth especially when you add other expenses like delivery (I live in the UK) and needles, injections etc. (as well as some vitamins to get used to self-administration before I start using CRB). However I am curious as to what the current opinion is on buying 10 ml vials and using half a vial a day, which will reduce the cost. I remember that in the longer thread people had mixed opinions on it, but unless there is a cheaper source that could be about the only way i could somehow try it in the next few months. Also would a 2 week administration instead of 4 be sensible, as I would rather buy 1 Cerebrolysin 10ml * 5 vials and get more later if it seems to work for me?

[nootropic_rookie]

I'm interested in cerebrolysin but is it really safe? the name freaks me out, the name cerebrolysin litterally means breaking down of the brain WTF?
I don't want to try that out and get brain damaged, so is it safe for chronic use?

[protoject]

I've been interested in trying Cerebrolsin for as long as there are threads on it and I've also been hoping that a cheaper source than ias and drugspro will emerge, as $300 - $350 are way too much for me for a months worth especially when you add other expenses like delivery (I live in the UK) and needles, injections etc. (as well as some vitamins to get used to self-administration before I start using CRB). However I am curious as to what the current opinion is on buying 10 ml vials and using half a vial a day, which will reduce the cost. I remember that in the longer thread people had mixed opinions on it, but unless there is a cheaper source that could be about the only way i could somehow try it in the next few months. Also would a 2 week administration instead of 4 be sensible, as I would rather buy 1 Cerebrolysin 10ml * 5 vials and get more later if it seems to work for me?

Don't use half a vial because then there is a risk that the other half could become contaminated.

[FDA Approved]

I've been interested in trying Cerebrolsin for as long as there are threads on it and I've also been hoping that a cheaper source than ias and drugspro will emerge, as $300 - $350 are way too much for me for a months worth especially when you add other expenses like delivery (I live in the UK) and needles, injections etc. (as well as some vitamins to get used to self-administration before I start using CRB). However I am curious as to what the current opinion is on buying 10 ml vials and using half a vial a day, which will reduce the cost. I remember that in the longer thread people had mixed opinions on it, but unless there is a cheaper source that could be about the only way i could somehow try it in the next few months. Also would a 2 week administration instead of 4 be sensible, as I would rather buy 1 Cerebrolysin 10ml * 5 vials and get more later if it seems to work for me?

Don't use half a vial because then there is a risk that the other half could become contaminated.

Arent there ways to protect against that? How hard is it? How likely is it to become contaminated if you take precautions? What will happen if its contaminated under such conditions (if precautions are taken)?

[NG_F]

I've been interested in trying Cerebrolsin for as long as there are threads on it and I've also been hoping that a cheaper source than ias and drugspro will emerge, as $300 - $350 are way too much for me for a months worth especially when you add other expenses like delivery (I live in the UK) and needles, injections etc. (as well as some vitamins to get used to self-administration before I start using CRB). However I am curious as to what the current opinion is on buying 10 ml vials and using half a vial a day, which will reduce the cost. I remember that in the longer thread people had mixed opinions on it, but unless there is a cheaper source that could be about the only way i could somehow try it in the next few months. Also would a 2 week administration instead of 4 be sensible, as I would rather buy 1 Cerebrolysin 10ml * 5 vials and get more later if it seems to work for me?

Don't use half a vial because then there is a risk that the other half could become contaminated.

Arent there ways to protect against that? How hard is it? How likely is it to become contaminated if you take precautions? What will happen if its contaminated under such conditions (if precautions are taken)?

Get yourself some sterile multl-dose vials, preferably 20ml size and put in there.This way you can use as much as you want/need.
You can also attach a syringe filter when sucking up the contents from the ampule. I didn't but you may if your concerned about the slightest chance of a pathogen affecting you or your solution. Cheers mate.

[chairofgold]

I've been interested in trying Cerebrolsin for as long as there are threads on it and I've also been hoping that a cheaper source than ias and drugspro will emerge, as $300 - $350 are way too much for me for a months worth especially when you add other expenses like delivery (I live in the UK) and needles, injections etc. (as well as some vitamins to get used to self-administration before I start using CRB). However I am curious as to what the current opinion is on buying 10 ml vials and using half a vial a day, which will reduce the cost. I remember that in the longer thread people had mixed opinions on it, but unless there is a cheaper source that could be about the only way i could somehow try it in the next few months. Also would a 2 week administration instead of 4 be sensible, as I would rather buy 1 Cerebrolysin 10ml * 5 vials and get more later if it seems to work for me?

I use drugspremium dot com for the cerebro, it may be the cheapest place to buy it. 15 10ml vials for 301.95 & Allegro medical dot com to get your IV stuff.