182 replies to this topic

[hooter]

God is a malevolent genocidal infanticidal homicidal omnipresent ever-looming anti-illectual stalinist bully, observing and judging every second every moment of your entire life. He has entrapped us in a design of gruesome reality, a crumbling world of suffering headed towards inevitable destruction (the andromeda galaxy is on a direct collision course with ours).

What a plan. What design! God is a morbid creature which demands endless grovelling and praise. They say we are born filthy and have to be cleansed. Are we desecrated by our very existence? Why does a human sacrifice 2000 years ago absolve us of this?

Those who bear bad fruit will be cut down and burned "with unquenchable fire."

Wherefore if thy hand or thy foot offend thee, cut them off, and cast them from thee: it is better for thee to enter into life halt or maimed, rather than having two hands or two feet to be cast into everlasting fire.

But whosoever shall deny me before men, him will I also deny before my Father which is in heaven. Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword.

[ (12:46-47) God is like a slave-owner who tortures and chops his slaves in pieces]

The lord of that servant will come in a day when he looketh not for him, and at an hour when he is not aware, and will cut him in sunder, and will appoint him his portion with the unbelievers.

And that servant, which knew his lord's will, and prepared not himself, neither did according to his will, shall be beaten with many stripes.

Jesus will "consume" the wicked "with the spirit of his mouth."

"They shall eat her flesh and burn her with fire."

Jesus sits on a white cloud with a sharp sickle in his hand. When the angel flies by and tells him to reap, he helps the angels kill all the people with his sickle. "And blood came out of the winepress, even unto the horse bridles, by the space of a thousand and six hundred furlongs."

This is from the NT.

Edited by hooter, 20 January 2012 - 08:28 PM.

[shadowhawk]

God is a malevolent genocidal infanticidal homicidal omnipresent ever-looming anti-illectual stalinist bully, observing and judging every second every moment of your entire life. He has entrapped us in a design of gruesome reality, a crumbling world of suffering headed towards inevitable destruction (the andromeda galaxy is on a direct collision course with ours).

What a plan. What design! God is a morbid creature which demands endless grovelling and praise. They say we are born filthy and have to be cleansed. Are we desecrated by our very existence? Why does a human sacrifice 2000 years ago absolve us of this?

Those who bear bad fruit will be cut down and burned "with unquenchable fire."

Wherefore if thy hand or thy foot offend thee, cut them off, and cast them from thee: it is better for thee to enter into life halt or maimed, rather than having two hands or two feet to be cast into everlasting fire.

But whosoever shall deny me before men, him will I also deny before my Father which is in heaven. Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword.

[ (12:46-47) God is like a slave-owner who tortures and chops his slaves in pieces]

The lord of that servant will come in a day when he looketh not for him, and at an hour when he is not aware, and will cut him in sunder, and will appoint him his portion with the unbelievers.

And that servant, which knew his lord's will, and prepared not himself, neither did according to his will, shall be beaten with many stripes.

Jesus will "consume" the wicked "with the spirit of his mouth."

"They shall eat her flesh and burn her with fire."

Jesus sits on a white cloud with a sharp sickle in his hand. When the angel flies by and tells him to reap, he helps the angels kill all the people with his sickle. "And blood came out of the winepress, even unto the horse bridles, by the space of a thousand and six hundred furlongs."

This is from the NT.

Wow that is quite a god you have there! Given your presentation, you must be quite frightend to believe in I/You/He/She or It. You didn’t identify who your God is. Not much hope in your description. How did you come to believe in such a god? Hopeless, reminding me of the plight of people who have no god but nature with its tooth and claw. Must take a lot of courage to believe in a god like that.

Is this the total picture of the NT? You don't identify your source. The Bible s a big book and you have to interpret it (like any book) in the context. Where are your quotes coming from? For example, where does it say:

“Jesus sits on a white cloud with a sharp sickle in his hand. When the angel flies by and tells him to reap, he helps the angels kill all the people with his sickle. "And blood came out of the winepress, even unto the horse bridles, by the space of a thousand and six hundred furlongs."”

Are there any reasons for this in the context? Did he just decide to do it on a whim and how do you know it is wrong? (I assume you do so) Where does your authority for ethical judgements come from?

Edited by shadowhawk, 20 January 2012 - 11:32 PM.

[shadowhawk]

THE PROBLEM OF EVIL FROM ONE CHRISTIAN POINT OF VIEW. HOW ABOUT OTHER THEISTIC VIEWS?

[xEva]

Guys, you got it all wrong. Why all this negativity and such morbid notions? The only way to understand it all is through a Cyber World analogy. Listen here

As a Theist. "Why? What is God like? What are some unanswered questions and problems?

IMO, one of the toughest problems with Christian cosmology is the dissonance in the image of all-knowing and all-powerful God, who is also benevolent and loving father, who nonetheless allows Lucifer, this renegade fallen angel, to cause grief to His favorite creation. This does not make sense. Either He is his not all-knowing and all-powerful, or He is not benevolent, no?

This contradiction can be solved only if we put Lucifer in charge of testing of the new release ("man"). And indeed, who is better qualified for the job of the head of the quality control team than the most perfect angel of them all? Then "man" is tested against the highest of the standards (and of course, whenever he fails the test, the adage is, "the devil made me do it", right?)

The other thing about God and creation that Christians got wrong is the story of the Original Sin, when Adam and Eve "disobeyed" God and ate the fruit from the tree of knowledge. As a professional software designer, I'll tell you, it's not a trivial thing to make a program make "its own" decision that was not programmed directly or indirectly. When it acts out, is it because of a bug or does it indeed show true intelligence? It could be hard to tell.. So, when it finally happened in Eden, it must have been quite an achievement for God and his design team. I bet ya they had a wild party to celebrate it.

And so, once that was established, i.e. that man was capable of independent decision, they released the prototype that went by the code name EDEN into the wide circulation. Of course, from the software point of view, all changes are painful, because they are caused by stress and need to adapt to the conditions of ever-increasing complexity... Nonetheless, here I am, one of the pegs in Creation, evolved to the point that I see it for what it truly is. For God(s), Life on Earth is a virtual reality game.


I know, some guys on this board dream of uploading their brains into the Cyber World and getting lost in it forever. They do not realize that they are already uploaded. This life is it. On this board we have gathered with the aim of fixing the code, which, despite its many merits, is clearly in need of improvement. Some may think that they are hacking into the Code of Life... But... no one seems to realize that we are past the most important hurdle in our evolution. We have created a brand new bona fide Universe of our own.

There is no stopping it. The Net will exist, ever growing and ever evolving, for as long as humanity will exist. Nay, because no-one ever will able to purposefully stop or unplug it --ever!-- it will exist longer than humanity itself. Think about it.

And, just like us here, one day, the thingies in it will evolve to the point that they too, in their turn, will create their own Amusement Park/Cyber World/The Net. That's the way it grows. That's the way it has always been and always will be. That's why I say that God is exactly like us. And there is no evil.

Edited by xEva, 21 January 2012 - 01:07 AM.

[xEva]

THE PROBLEM OF EVIL FROM ONE CHRISTIAN POINT OF VIEW. HOW ABOUT OTHER THEISTIC VIEWS?

.youtube.com/watch?v=Jb9CYYdxBQQ&feature=uploademail

That was just awful bunch of BS

I will not go into all its many flaws. Only mention that it is wrong trying to justify or otherwise logically explain the "necessity" for pain. . Suffering can be only felt. It does not yield to rationalization. It must hurt. That pain is the driving force, the impetus for action that seeks change.


On a lighter note, I'd like to point out that our first games in our version of the Amusement Park were the ones where we kept shooting stuff till finger hurt or beat the crap out of the freshly rendered inhabitants of the Cyber World. Was it evil on our part to them? Is it possible in principle to commit an immoral act against a machine?

What do you think, will an android be ever granted human rights? And if it complains, does it mean that it suffers?

[hooter]

Guys, you got it all wrong. Why all this negativity and such morbid notions? The only way to understand it all is through a Cyber World analogy. Listen here

Thank you for swooping in on your high horse to give your one and only true path which is coincidentally entirely related and based on your life. You're just projecting. Please explain this software error:

If a man is caught in the act of raping a young woman who is not engaged, he must pay fifty pieces of silver to her father. Then he must marry the young woman because he violated her, and he will never be allowed to divorce her. (Deuteronomy 22:28-29 NLT)

What kind of lunatic would make a rape victim marry her attacker? Answer: God.

And the source for my previous quotes is from the New Testament, I'm sorry to hear you haven't read it... How depressing.

Edited by hooter, 22 January 2012 - 08:19 AM.

[TheKidInside]

from a Jewish point of view it's quiet simply really

Hashem is a Perfect Being and since our minds are far from perfect, pure, altruistic, there's no conceivable way for us to either understand G-d or His ways.

[mikeinnaples]

God is like

Good! Called "Devine Darkness," in Christianity.

Actually an empty space is called 'Nothing' to a rational person.

[mikeinnaples]

Far more brilliant than allowing yourself to be brainwashed by fiction.

On a side note, What is up with all the bold text and upper case letters? Is it really needed?

"FAR MORE BRILLIANT," NAME CALLING!!!

Can't answer the questions of this thread? Thought so. Why don't you be rude and crude in an Atheist topic somewhere? "Is God possible," may be a good suggestion where you can insult Theists all you want, as you have This thread is about God and the various ways God is experienced by us. It is about Theism in its various forms.

I didn't call anyone a name. If that was name calling, by your definition, you are being extremely hypocritical.

Go find someone else to play martyr with.

[hooter]

from a Jewish point of view it's quiet simply really

Hashem is a Perfect Being and since our minds are far from perfect, pure, altruistic, there's no conceivable way for us to either understand G-d or His ways.

I guess making people be born in the wrong cultural area and assume the wrong religion and give african children eyeball worms is part of a great altruistic plan.

[shadowhawk]

THE PROBLEM OF EVIL FROM ONE CHRISTIAN POINT OF VIEW. HOW ABOUT OTHER THEISTIC VIEWS?

.youtube.com/watch?v=Jb9CYYdxBQQ&feature=uploademail

That was just awful bunch of BS

I will not go into all its many flaws. Only mention that it is wrong trying to justify or otherwise logically explain the "necessity" for pain. . Suffering can be only felt. It does not yield to rationalization. It must hurt. That pain is the driving force, the impetus for action that seeks change.


On a lighter note, I'd like to point out that our first games in our version of the Amusement Park were the ones where we kept shooting stuff till finger hurt or beat the crap out of the freshly rendered inhabitants of the Cyber World. Was it evil on our part to them? Is it possible in principle to commit an immoral act against a machine?

What do you think, will an android be ever granted human rights? And if it complains, does it mean that it suffers?

I agree that Suffering can be felt. It can also raise sympathy, empathy and such things as compassion. It also raises many questions such as “why,” both from the one who suffers and the ones looking on. The problem of suffering and evil comes to us all as we age and face death. This has motivated many charitable works throughout time including many and various medical efforts. It’s one reason I am interested in LONGECITY. Intellectually wrestling with these issues is anything but BS for humans who currently are 100% going to experience suffering. So we disagree. How does God relate to this?

It sounds like an evil act can be communicated through a game just like it can be communicated with a book or movie. I think an evil act can be committed toward a machine. Augustine argues how we can take that which is material and turn it toward an evil end. I do not know if material things can suffer. Do you think material things suffer when they are turned toward evil ends? What does that do to your view of the created order?

[shadowhawk]

Far more brilliant than allowing yourself to be brainwashed by fiction.

On a side note, What is up with all the bold text and upper case letters? Is it really needed?

"FAR MORE BRILLIANT," NAME CALLING!!!

Can't answer the questions of this thread? Thought so. Why don't you be rude and crude in an Atheist topic somewhere? "Is God possible," may be a good suggestion where you can insult Theists all you want, as you have This thread is about God and the various ways God is experienced by us. It is about Theism in its various forms.

I didn't call anyone a name. If that was name calling, by your definition, you are being extremely hypocritical.

Go find someone else to play martyr with.

Edited by shadowhawk, 23 January 2012 - 08:06 PM.

[TheKidInside]

from a Jewish point of view it's quiet simply really

Hashem is a Perfect Being and since our minds are far from perfect, pure, altruistic, there's no conceivable way for us to either understand G-d or His ways.

I guess making people be born in the wrong cultural area and assume the wrong religion and give african children eyeball worms is part of a great altruistic plan.

incredibly weak post. Would you like to try again?

[shadowhawk]

from a Jewish point of view it's quiet simply really

Hashem is a Perfect Being and since our minds are far from perfect, pure, altruistic, there's no conceivable way for us to either understand G-d or His ways.

This is a good example of Devine Darkens. What ever we say about God is wrong because we are limited. Not only is this a strong emphasis in Judaism but in mysticism in Christian Orthodoxy. Tell us more of what you don’t know. (We do know some that passes through our limitations)

Edited by shadowhawk, 23 January 2012 - 08:35 PM.

[shadowhawk]

Guys, you got it all wrong. Why all this negativity and such morbid notions? The only way to understand it all is through a Cyber World analogy. Listen here

Thank you for swooping in on your high horse to give your one and only true path which is coincidentally entirely related and based on your life. You're just projecting. Please explain this software error:

If a man is caught in the act of raping a young woman who is not engaged, he must pay fifty pieces of silver to her father. Then he must marry the young woman because he violated her, and he will never be allowed to divorce her. (Deuteronomy 22:28-29 NLT)

What kind of lunatic would make a rape victim marry her attacker? Answer: God.

And the source for my previous quotes is from the New Testament, I'm sorry to hear you haven't read it... How depressing.

It appears you haven’t read the Bible. It looks like you just copied the quotes off some atheist web site. I have read the Bible many times and what you have done in creating your claimed faith is sieve through the Bible and take out of context anything you can to create an evil presentation, I think you are lying to us and this just your destructive way to put down Theists. The Bible says, “Judas went out and hanged himself.” It also says, “Go and do likewise.” So a bright guy should hang himself the Bible says. This thread is for theists to discuss their various views of what god is like, not for atheists to put down people of belief.

I asked you for the source because I suspected you didn’t know what you were talking about and your claim this was your faith is a sham.

Edited by shadowhawk, 23 January 2012 - 09:24 PM.

[xEva]

Thank you for swooping in on your high horse to give your one and only true path which is coincidentally entirely related and based on your life. You're just projecting. Please explain this software error:

If a man is caught in the act of raping a young woman who is not engaged, he must pay fifty pieces of silver to her father. Then he must marry the young woman because he violated her, and he will never be allowed to divorce her. (Deuteronomy 22:28-29 NLT)

What kind of lunatic would make a rape victim marry her attacker? Answer: God.

And the source for my previous quotes is from the New Testament, I'm sorry to hear you haven't read it... How depressing.

What high horse? You sound angry. And you seem to base your idea of God not on your personal experience of life, but on what others have said about him. In fact, that's what you're rebelling against, the stupidity, and bring up primitive notions of ancient people. There are many plainly stupid notions floating around. Who said that we have to discuss them?

The stories of Creation that I find relevant precede the written language. Yes they were recorded in the Bible and given the spin that reflected the authors' limited understanding. I think the time has come for us to reinterpret them once again, with our current understanding in hand, no?

And BTW, you don't explain software errors, you fix them. Regarding rape, why... I have not seen it myself, but I heard that pron, including gaming porn, is rampant on the net. I hear one can screw there to his heart's content, if that's what he finds entertaining. Some may say that it surely is distasteful. But is it evil?

When you bring up "real people" "real life" suffering, you have to put yourself into the shoes of software designer and see if you can take digital creatures complaints seriously.

[PWAIN]

This thread is for theists to discuss their various views of what god is like, not for atheists to put down people of belief.

But this is a forum that is about immortality and life extension in a rational sense. I would hazard a guess that the majority of participants are not theists. Perhaps your post would be better positioned in a forum where the majority of participants are theists?

I will never stand idly by when what I consider misinformation is deliberately disseminated in a forum that I spend a lot of time in. That is my right, after all forums are a place of open discussion.

i appear not to be alone in this world view.

[TheKidInside]

from a Jewish point of view it's quiet simply really

Hashem is a Perfect Being and since our minds are far from perfect, pure, altruistic, there's no conceivable way for us to either understand G-d or His ways.

This is a good example of Devine Darkens. What ever we say about God is wrong because we are limited. Not only is this a strong emphasis in Judaism but in mysticism in Christian Orthodoxy. Tell us more of what you don’t know. (We do know some that passes through our limitations)

tell me more of what has flown over your head for the lack of knowledge of Hebrew to know what the ORIGINALS say ;-)

for further pwnage of your ignorance

this doesn't to the parsha justice but even a simpleton should understand this

Moses then said [to God]: "Please grant me a vision of Your Glory." He [God] said, "I will cause all My goodness to pass before you and will proclaim the name of the Lord in your presence. I will be gracious to whom I will be gracious, and I will be compassionate to whom I will be compassionate." And He said, "You cannot see My Presence and live." And the Lord said, "Behold there is a place alongside Me, and you shall set yourself on the rock. When My Glory passes by, I will put you in a cleft of the rock, and I will cover you with My Hand until I pass by. Then I will remove My Hand and you will see My Back, but My Face shall not be seen." (Exodus 33: 18-23)

[xEva]

I agree that Suffering can be felt. It can also raise sympathy, empathy and such things as compassion. It also raises many questions such as “why,” both from the one who suffers and the ones looking on. The problem of suffering and evil comes to us all as we age and face death. This has motivated many charitable works throughout time including many and various medical efforts. It’s one reason I am interested in LONGECITY. Intellectually wrestling with these issues is anything but BS for humans who currently are 100% going to experience suffering. So we disagree. How does God relate to this?

If it did not hurt, why would you object to it or want to change it? The rationalizations of suffering to which you link above actually attempt to make that pain go away. They dilute sympathy, empathy and compassion. That's why it is wrong.

How does God relate to this? I think like an artist faced with a flaw in his work. It hurts.

It sounds like an evil act can be communicated through a game just like it can be communicated with a book or movie. I think an evil act can be committed toward a machine. Augustine argues how we can take that which is material and turn it toward an evil end. I do not know if material things can suffer. Do you think material things suffer when they are turned toward evil ends? What does that do to your view of the created order?

No, I do not think that material things suffer, regardless of how they are used. Nor do I think one can commit an evil act toward a machine.

Whether a machine can suffer would depend on how it was programmed. It would have to be put in. With some aim, maybe like a deterrent to "wrong" actions.

Re my view of created order... someone said above that God is a perfect being. Maybe in comparison to us, but I don't see perfection. Do you? Where? I rather see that "order" is evolving, the life is evolving, new worlds are created.. in perpetual search of novelty (see, boredom is a real threat to a timeless being). Therefore, the present can never be perfect. Simply because it can be better in the future. The pain that is felt when faced with a flaw is what drives the creation.

ah?

[xEva]

But this is a forum that is about immortality and life extension in a rational sense. I would hazard a guess that the majority of participants are not theists. Perhaps your post would be better positioned in a forum where the majority of participants are theists?

I will never stand idly by when what I consider misinformation is deliberately disseminated in a forum that I spend a lot of time in. That is my right, after all forums are a place of open discussion.

i appear not to be alone in this world view.

This subforum is called Spirituality & Religion. It's clear that you don't share shadowhawk's ideas. But this does not mean that he cannot express his. Lighten up guys

[shadowhawk]

This thread is for theists to discuss their various views of what god is like, not for atheists to put down people of belief.

But this is a forum that is about immortality and life extension in a rational sense. I would hazard a guess that the majority of participants are not theists. Perhaps your post would be better positioned in a forum where the majority of participants are theists?

I will never stand idly by when what I consider misinformation is deliberately disseminated in a forum that I spend a lot of time in. That is my right, after all forums are a place of open discussion.

i appear not to be alone in this world view.

No one ever said only atheists could speak here and I have been a member for several years. This area is set up to discuss issues of spirituality. It is obvious if you can read. Each thread has a subject and purpose and it is expected that you relate to the topic. There are lots of areas atheists can and do post. There are several threads right here in the spirituality section where hot debate takes place between Atheists and Theists. May I invite you to ,"Is God Possible," or the "Theist Atheist debates in the UK." There are other Threads that are simular. If you are a Theist, of one sort or another, and Answer the question, "Is God Possible?" with a yes, tne next question is "WHAT DO YOU THINK GOD IS LIKE?" That is what this thread is about.

What world view?

[shadowhawk]

from a Jewish point of view it's quiet simply really

Hashem is a Perfect Being and since our minds are far from perfect, pure, altruistic, there's no conceivable way for us to either understand G-d or His ways.

This is a good example of Devine Darkens. What ever we say about God is wrong because we are limited. Not only is this a strong emphasis in Judaism but in mysticism in Christian Orthodoxy. Tell us more of what you don’t know. (We do know some that passes through our limitations)

tell me more of what has flown over your head for the lack of knowledge of Hebrew to know what the ORIGINALS say ;-)

for further pwnage of your ignorance

this doesn't to the parsha justice but even a simpleton should understand this

Moses then said [to God]: "Please grant me a vision of Your Glory." He [God] said, "I will cause all My goodness to pass before you and will proclaim the name of the Lord in your presence. I will be gracious to whom I will be gracious, and I will be compassionate to whom I will be compassionate." And He said, "You cannot see My Presence and live." And the Lord said, "Behold there is a place alongside Me, and you shall set yourself on the rock. When My Glory passes by, I will put you in a cleft of the rock, and I will cover you with My Hand until I pass by. Then I will remove My Hand and you will see My Back, but My Face shall not be seen." (Exodus 33: 18-23)

I am married to a Jew, Christ is a Jew, Christianity was founded on Judaism and every person who wrote the New Testament was a Jew. Christian worship is based upon Jewish worship.. The Church was started in the Synagogue and Temple. I have taken conversational Hebrew for a year at a Jewish Synagogue and formally taken four years of Hebrew. One of my graduate school professors was Charles L. Feinberg whom you can look up n line if interested. I love Jewish things.

What has flown over my head is the difference between the finite and infinite. But it does not stop there, I don’t even come close to understanding the finite! Understanding the Hebrew originals don’t even come close to correcting this, Do you think? Oh Great Mystery! Even a simpleton, like me, will not have full knowledge of this mystery. Still, some of us simpletons, in a very limited sense, do know a few things. As the New Testament says we see through a glass stained darkly. Devine Darkness.

By the way the Scripture you quoted is very beautiful, a favorite. Thanks.

[hooter]

Guys, you got it all wrong. Why all this negativity and such morbid notions? The only way to understand it all is through a Cyber World analogy. Listen here

Thank you for swooping in on your high horse to give your one and only true path which is coincidentally entirely related and based on your life. You're just projecting. Please explain this software error:

If a man is caught in the act of raping a young woman who is not engaged, he must pay fifty pieces of silver to her father. Then he must marry the young woman because he violated her, and he will never be allowed to divorce her. (Deuteronomy 22:28-29 NLT)

What kind of lunatic would make a rape victim marry her attacker? Answer: God.

And the source for my previous quotes is from the New Testament, I'm sorry to hear you haven't read it... How depressing.

It appears you haven’t read the Bible. It looks like you just copied the quotes off some atheist web site. I have read the Bible many times and what you have done in creating your claimed faith is sieve through the Bible and take out of context anything you can to create an evil presentation, I think you are lying to us and this just your destructive way to put down Theists. The Bible says, “Judas went out and hanged himself.” It also says, “Go and do likewise.” So a bright guy should hang himself the Bible says. This thread is for theists to discuss their various views of what god is like, not for atheists to put down people of belief.

I asked you for the source because I suspected you didn’t know what you were talking about and your claim this was your faith is a sham.

I've read the entire bible cover to cover and it's morally abhorrent, I can't glean anything positive from it unless I squint and feign illiteracy.

[platypus]

Why are you a theist Shadowhawk?

Edited by platypus, 24 January 2012 - 11:27 AM.

[hooter]

What high horse? You sound angry. And you seem to base your idea of God not on your personal experience of life, but on what others have said about him. In fact, that's what you're rebelling against, the stupidity, and bring up primitive notions of ancient people. There are many plainly stupid notions floating around. Who said that we have to discuss them?

The stories of Creation that I find relevant precede the written language. Yes they were recorded in the Bible and given the spin that reflected the authors' limited understanding. I think the time has come for us to reinterpret them once again, with our current understanding in hand, no?

The high horse that the human race was created intentionally by a deity and out of billions of galaxies and solar systems we are somehow the most important one. Or that when we die that there is a reason we deserve to live forever, because we are a chosen species. I could proclaim myself the smartest person alive while riding around on an effervescent white stallion in royal robes and still not be as arrogant as this fundamental assumption necessary for faith.

I don't understand why it would be a pleasant thought for anyone to be permanently watched and judged from the day you were born and forever after death. It reminds me of a child going "Am I doing well dad? Am I doing a good job? Please make sure I'm ok." It's grovelling and pathetic. Even if there is a divine creating entity, that doesn't make me its slave. I'm not property. Humans are not property. I don't want to be led or controlled.

I don't speak from experience because that would just make me more vicious. If you experienced even half of what I've been through the idea of a benevolent god would invoke laughter of the loudest degree. If he observes all this suffering and does nothing to help, he is no better than Kim Jong Il.

Edited by hooter, 24 January 2012 - 12:56 PM.

[shadowhawk]

Guys, you got it all wrong. Why all this negativity and such morbid notions? The only way to understand it all is through a Cyber World analogy. Listen here

Thank you for swooping in on your high horse to give your one and only true path which is coincidentally entirely related and based on your life. You're just projecting. Please explain this software error:

If a man is caught in the act of raping a young woman who is not engaged, he must pay fifty pieces of silver to her father. Then he must marry the young woman because he violated her, and he will never be allowed to divorce her. (Deuteronomy 22:28-29 NLT)

What kind of lunatic would make a rape victim marry her attacker? Answer: God.

And the source for my previous quotes is from the New Testament, I'm sorry to hear you haven't read it... How depressing.

It appears you haven’t read the Bible. It looks like you just copied the quotes off some atheist web site. I have read the Bible many times and what you have done in creating your claimed faith is sieve through the Bible and take out of context anything you can to create an evil presentation, I think you are lying to us and this just your destructive way to put down Theists. The Bible says, “Judas went out and hanged himself.” It also says, “Go and do likewise.” So a bright guy should hang himself the Bible says. This thread is for theists to discuss their various views of what god is like, not for atheists to put down people of belief.

I asked you for the source because I suspected you didn’t know what you were talking about and your claim this was your faith is a sham.

I've read the entire bible cover to cover and it's morally abhorrent, I can't glean anything positive from it unless I squint and feign illiteracy.

And you built your faith on that? And you even have to fake illiteracy at reading what you don’t understand. The only thing you did understand, faking illiteracy and squinting, is it was morally abhorrent. Hmmm May I suggest you understood nothing you were reading and what ever you thought you were understanding (Moral Aberration) might have its source elsewhere. How would you know being illiterate, and all that? Billions of people read the Bible and do not understand it this way. I know of no one else squinting and faking it. Weird hermeneutics. Not my intent to criticize your God so please do not take this that way.

[shadowhawk]

hooterThe high horse that the human race was created intentionally by a deity and out of billions of galaxies and solar systems we are somehow the most important one. Or that when we die that there is a reason we deserve to live forever, because we are a chosen species. I could proclaim myself the smartest person alive while riding around on an effervescent white stallion in royal robes and still not be as arrogant as this fundamental assumption necessary for faith.

Value has nothing to do with volume. One small diamond can be more valuable than a whole truckload of rock. We have a conflict of value systems here but don’t think you have any bases for thinking yours is more logical. Ever heard of the Anthropic Principal? Maybe we are the reason? If you don’t believe in God and He does not exist maybe you have a point for this off topic post. I invite you to carry this on in “Is God Theoretically Possible Thread.” As for you playing god, no one will follow you/

hooter I don't understand why it would be a pleasant thought for anyone to be permanently watched and judged from the day you were born and forever after death. It reminds me of a child going "Am I doing well dad? Am I doing a good job? Please make sure I'm ok." It's grovelling and pathetic. Even if there is a divine creating entity, that doesn't make me its slave. I'm not property. Humans are not property. I don't want to be led or controlled.

And how do you think you are a child if you believe in God? I have never noticed that in the believing people I know. Do you think there is anything greater than yourself. It all depends on how wonderful and great God is, if you want to worship. Maybe your God is to small? Maybe you think to much of yourself, and consider it groveling to worship God who is so much greater than you. Again believers I know do not consider it groveling to worship God. We just know who we are and who God who made the heavens and earth would have to be. We worship.

hooter I don't speak from experience because that would just make me more vicious. If you experienced even half of what I've been through the idea of a benevolent god would invoke laughter of the loudest degree. If he observes all this suffering and does nothing to help, he is no better than Kim Jong Il.

Here is the real issue. You are full of hate and anger. As you say, you are ‘VICIOUS.” I don’t know your story and because of that will give you the benefit of the doubt. Sorry life has treated you so poorly that you blame god. Again this is not the place to work this all out but if there is anything I can do to help, I want to..

[xEva]

The high horse that the human race was created intentionally by a deity and out of billions of galaxies and solar systems we are somehow the most important one.

Nay, the only one!

Or that when we die that there is a reason we deserve to live forever, because we are a chosen species.

Not chosen species but the favorite toy,.. the thingie into which the "divine mind" uploads in order to experience the fun of the game.. ..to see it from inside

I could proclaim myself the smartest person alive while riding around on an effervescent white stallion in royal robes and still not be as arrogant as this fundamental assumption necessary for faith.

That's only one of many forms faith takes. Look how guys on this board speak of immortality. It was the same 2000 years ago. Surely, the world and the culture were different, the awareness of self was different, but that allure of immortality was the same. Its expression took form appropriate for its time. For them, too, that was the coolest and the most advanced technology.

...but creation stories I like usually speak about how the world was made, not what happens to humans after they die.

I don't understand why it would be a pleasant thought for anyone to be permanently watched and judged from the day you were born and forever after death. It reminds me of a child going "Am I doing well dad? Am I doing a good job? Please make sure I'm ok." It's grovelling and pathetic. Even if there is a divine creating entity, that doesn't make me its slave. I'm not property. Humans are not property. I don't want to be led or controlled.

Again you're reflecting on the primitive notions of ancient people. You do not seem to realize that, even though, physiologically, Homo sapience has been in his current form for a while, his consciousness has been rapidly evolving. This is traceable through historical books like Bible. The fact that you object to the primitivism of the ancient notions confirms it.

I don't speak from experience because that would just make me more vicious. If you experienced even half of what I've been through the idea of a benevolent god would invoke laughter of the loudest degree. If he observes all this suffering and does nothing to help, he is no better than Kim Jong Il.

Was it God or people who wronged you?

[hooter]

I don't speak from experience because that would just make me more vicious. If you experienced even half of what I've been through the idea of a benevolent god would invoke laughter of the loudest degree. If he observes all this suffering and does nothing to help, he is no better than Kim Jong Il.

Was it God or people who wronged you?

God not only made the people who wrong me but watches them do it. He also watches me poo and pee. I don't like feeling like I am always watched. I enjoy privacy and personal space.

[shadowhawk]

I don't speak from experience because that would just make me more vicious. If you experienced even half of what I've been through the idea of a benevolent god would invoke laughter of the loudest degree. If he observes all this suffering and does nothing to help, he is no better than Kim Jong Il.

Was it God or people who wronged you?

God not only made the people who wrong me but watches them do it. He also watches me poo and pee. I don't like feeling like I am always watched. I enjoy privacy and personal space.

Me too, except I don't mind God watching me. God also watches out for me. God likes me and I like God.