9 replies to this topic

[Mr Black]

Most everything I've read about L-tyrosine suggests that it may be useful in promoting alertness and focus in sleep-deprived individuals, but I'm getting the opposite result. I've noticed that if I take 1g mid-morning, I'll become irresistably sleepy after lunch. Likewise, if I take 1g before bed, I'll sleep for longer stretches of time (typically 5-6 hours at the start) and get a subjectively better quality of sleep. If I don't take any l-tyrosine, I won't get sleepy during the day, but at night I'll have more fragmented sleep; I'll typically wake every hour or two and not feel as refreshed in the morning. If I continue to abstain from taking l-tyrosine, sleep will stay fragmented, but I'll be awake longer between fragments.. and the pattern continues until I become insomnic, then alternate between insomnia and hypersomnia (unrefreshing), then I'll begin to have difficulties with cognition, mood becomes unstable, motivation disappears, I'll have episodes of dp/dr, anxiety, and suicidal thoughts that just appear out of nowhere.

My question is, why does tyrosine help me sleep and get more out of sleep? Would it be thyroid-related? Would it more likely have to do with domaminergic regulation of sleep/wake states? Any other ideas?

[Big Toast]

I too become drowsy, spaced out, and irritated with L-tyrosine as well as with DLPA , ALCAR, and "higher" doses of piracetam. I'd really like some insight to what causes this reaction.

[calengineering]

i'm one those people you're referring to. l-tyrosine makes me a little more alert and focused. i find it harder to fall asleep if i take it too close to bedtime. i started taking it because i have adhd and heard that it can increase dopamine levels in the brain.

i read there needs to be a balance between serotonin and dopamine and that too much of one can affect your mood/concetration and also wakefulness. i find that when i take a serotonin precursor (5htp) without l-tyrosine, i get the opposite effect. i feel more peaceful and relaxed. it doesn't make me feel sleepy but i definitely feel that i can fall asleep faster.

when i take both together, i usually get a synergistic effect. unfortunately...the effects are starting to wear off and i find myself needing to skip some days.

my guess is that you simply should look into another supplement.

Edited by calengineering, 26 January 2012 - 05:17 AM.

[Mr Black]

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i find that when i take a serotonin precursor (5htp) without l-tyrosine, i get the opposite effect. i feel more peaceful and relaxed. it doesn't make me feel sleepy but i definitely feel that i can fall asleep faster.

I tried 5htp a couple of years ago, and after 2 days I started having having electric shock-like sensations in my head when I started to doze. I also awoke in a panic the next morning. Bloody awful. Tryptophan wasn't as bad, but did nothing positive for me.

my guess is that you simply should look into another supplement.

I thank you for the suggestion but I definitely won't follow it. Here's what happens when I quit taking l-tyrosine:

If I don't take any l-tyrosine, I won't get sleepy during the day, but at night I'll have more fragmented sleep; I'll typically wake every hour or two and not feel as refreshed in the morning. If I continue to abstain from taking l-tyrosine, sleep will stay fragmented, but I'll be awake longer between fragments.. and the pattern continues until I become insomnic, then alternate between insomnia and hypersomnia (unrefreshing), then I'll begin to have difficulties with cognition, mood becomes unstable, motivation disappears, I'll have episodes of dp/dr, anxiety, and suicidal thoughts that just appear out of nowhere.

The solution of course is to take tyrosine only before bed. I'm just wondering, since I react differently to tyrosine than many individuals, if there isn't something else going on. I'll be more than happy if I can just take Tyr for the rest of my life and live normally.. but I'm a little concerned that I may simply be treating symptoms and not the cause.

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[calengineering]

It sounds like youre an insomniac.

[PhaQ]

I think you already answered your own question. Dopamine without noradrenaline causes sleepiness. Its a well known side of effect of dopamine agonists like ropinirole. Sounds like your body is taking the tyrosine and making dopamine with it, but not noradrenaline.

[Mr Black]

PhaQ, I think you're probably correct. I think my original question is evolving toward (or had truly been from the start), "why do I need so much l-tyrosine (and perhaps l-phenylalanine) in my diet in order to function normally?" And there are many potential answers to that question.

[CatChelator]

I've just started experimenting with L-Tryptophan and L-Tyrosine after 7 years of SNRI anti depressant medication (effexor) which was regulating my serotonin and noradrenaline and norepinephrine levels (i think!).

L-Ttyptophan (serotonin-melatonin precursor) for some reason recreates the symptoms of SNRI withdrawal which is electric brain snaps which suggests to me that stopping the effexor allowed my serotonin levels to regulate upward perhaps. Or the brain snaps are just a result of a change in serotonin, whether that be up or down.

I've been experiencing really bad body aches, fatigue, disturbed sleep an high anxiety since stopping the SNRI medication.

Taking L-Tyrosine removes all of these symptoms and makes puts me in a calm focussed relaxed state, basically negating all of the symptoms of the SNRI discontinuation.

I read that long term SSRI (serotin regulation) treatment was shown to result in less serotonin in 9 places in the mouse brain on discontinuation. I assume the same is possible in the case of SNRI discontinuation, ie possible lack of noradrenaline and norepinephrine in the brain.

The fact that we react similarly to L-Tyrosine supplementation, and the fact that I am likely to have a chronic lack of noradrenaline and/or norepinephrine suggests to me that you may be naturally lacking in these neurotransmitters and that the L-Tyrosine is rebalancing levels for you.

It might be worth trying regular smaller doses throughout the day to avoid sleep inducement but regulate a longer term healthy level of noradrenaline and/or norepinephrine.

This is all just from personal research and experience, so would love if someone with a more scientific understanding is able to confirm/correct anything I've said.

Good luck with the Tyrosine.

[Mr Black]

Thanks, jonsnow. I'll be interested to see how well you do with just tryptophan and tyrosine, or what you might find that allows you to go without SNRI's.

I may try your suggestion of taking more frequent but smaller doses of tyrosine throughout the day, but taking it on an empty stomach may limit the number of doses to 4 or 5. Currently, I'm about 3 weeks in to doing the opposite, just 1 dose before bed. Interestingly, whereas I needed 2g daily with 2 doses, I seem to be doing just as well with 1.5g at night. It's too soon to draw any conclusions from that, but I'm beginning to focus on disturbed sleep as a potential cause instead of as a symptom (what I think calengineering was suggesting).

Anyhow, thanks for the information/comments, and best of luck to you in your experiments.

[RobertC]

I just got a very extrem tiredness spell from 600mg L-Tyrosin. At least I hope it's from this. I've had this a few times before, also from St. John's Wort. It's actually a little scary if you don't figure it out at first and you become extremely tired during the day and your heartbeat slows down.