75 replies to this topic

[Nootr]

I think that maybe it would be good to have a list for compatible substances which extend life, intellect and do not cause negative effects.
I also want to ask how do I know that I have depression or not? If I smoke the whole day cause I feel soul pain from loneliness, is it form of depression or the struggle of a strong personality against the bad fate? Do you think I should try coaxil and give up methylene blue and selegiline? MB first helped me - I felt more easy with people and more self-confident but now it seems that MB's effect has become very weak. And selegiline causes heart abnomalities - uncomfortable feeling in heart area. I was attracted by internet promotion of selegiline as a life extender. First months I had elevated mood but then this heart ache appeared. I also ordered bulk phenibut to fight against depression and because it is a nootropic. Will it be OK if I take coaxil and phenibut at the same time?
Also I took DMAE coz it elevated my creativity. People recommend to take choline sources with DMAE like Lecithin but you write that additional choline is bad for people with depression. Should I take DMAE without choline or abandon DMAE or centrophenoxin at all?

[hooter]

Selegiline is certainly overrated. I haven't had much success with it. Tianeptine is very good. Phenibut is a GABA agonist, so it can cause problems in long term use. Please see Scienceguy's anxiety thread. Try for yourself whether choline helps you or worsens your state.

---

For anyone who thinks SSRIs are so darn gosh good pleasant and tolerable:

The investigators followed 300 patients who were in ongoing outpatient treatment for depression over six weeks. The authors compared what the patient reported on a standardized scale of 31 different side effects (Toronto Side Effects Scale; TSES) with the information recorded by the treating psychiatrist on each patient's chart. The main finding: A stunning disconnect between psychiatrists and their patients.The average number of side effects reported by the patients on the TSES was 20 times (!) higher than the number recorded by the psychiatrist. When the investigators concentrated on those side effects that were most troubling to the patient, patients still reported 2 to 3 times more side effects than were recorded by the treating psychiatrist.

[absent minded]

I think that maybe it would be good to have a list for compatible substances which extend life, intellect and do not cause negative effects.
I also want to ask how do I know that I have depression or not? If I smoke the whole day cause I feel soul pain from loneliness, is it form of depression or the struggle of a strong personality against the bad fate?

What do you mean by loneliness, do you not have a close-knitted social group you see on a regular basis or are you one of those people who seem to have it all, and then one day decides to jump out the window from his from his white-collar job on the 25th floor?

This is going to sound obvious but I'll type it anyways, If you don't have anyone to connect with that will really mess with your head. I am surprised I am still alive I have been friendless and unemployed for more than half a decade. To me, those pharmaceuticals seem like it is trying to give you the matrix pill. Remember that scene from the movie matrix? That part where she gets uploaded data on how to fly a helicopter in mere seconds? Well, replace the helicopter flying skills with interpersonal skills.

I have tried 2 SSRI's before and 1 RIMA. Bad reactions with the SSRI's and possibly only placebo from the RIMA. I am thinking about trying another SSRI and doing the low-dose idea. My mistake was not doing cognitive behaviour therapy alongside the medications.

IMO the closest I can get to that matrix pill is taking nootropics to enhance my learning capabilities while doing CBT. It will be a learning process. If noopept doesn't hold its promise for my needs I'm going to revisit the psychiatric meds as a last resort. Umm, and as last last last resort maybe an amygdala surgery... cut this ******** ****ER that's making my life so miserable in half. Yeh... maybe that will help.

Edited by absent minded, 04 February 2012 - 01:54 PM.

[Nootr]

I meant the same problems as you have - no friends for more than a decade, no girlfriend and no job now. IF you do not have anyone to talk with and no one really cares for you you live like Robinson Crusoe on an island and you get crazy. That is why I do not see any wayout than taking Ads and anxyolitics. This loneliness has some benefits that you spend more time on reading and creative activity. The only thing is that because you do not express your emotions and produce speech you lose the ability to think and be concentrated. Like you I am thinking about visiting a psychiatrist and have a hypnosis session. This is a very powerful means to forget all the bad and restore self-control.
You can also practice self-hypnoses. It is especially effective with anxyolitics like phenibut.
I have never taken SSRIs thanks God. Do you know they turn people into permanent impotents and obese animals and that they permanently damage brains?
I think that Matrix is anti-christianity movie - I saw people becoming crazy after watching it - they began to imagine that our life is matrix and addiction to PC is the magic pill.
Have you tried to take tianeprine, MB, bacopa with piracetam, phenibut, centrophenoxine, bupropion? They should be better and safer than any SSRIs. Phenibut is really magical - not only calming but also improving thinking. There is important thread here about anxiety by ScienceGuy which names safe antidepressants. He rejects by a know reason phenibut as arousing tolerance. However I have been taking it for half-year without any addiction. And the thing with it is that if you take too much pills of it during the day you will not have temptation to increase the dose the next day. There is no withdrawal effect with phenibut unless you take the whole pack of tablets which I never did. The tolerance is the only negative thing about it - its calming effect becomes weaker with time. People say the cause is some kind of downregulation of certain receptors. They also say that theanine makes upregulation. I think that if you take one day phenibut and the next day theanine you can balance the process and eliminate tolerance to any of these substances. What do you think about it?
I also had thoughts like that you must have anxyolitic with you all the time and when you get the negative emotion caused by the reality around you you must immediately take the portion of a substance to get a positive emotion instead. You should fight the negative emotions immediately like smokers are smoking a sigarette after stress without delay. Only this way you can fight against depression and the pill becomes a kind of GOD to you and placebo effect also helps. So we can use "smokers habits" to own benefit. The only thing to fight against depression is to be constantly in good mood so that you do not have to analyze your miserable life. So you must do the opposite which psychologists say who promote reflexion. No self-hypnosis is possible when you are in bad mood also. Try to develop your visual thinking via imagining the things that you want in visual form, for example cartoons. A person can have negative thoughts and positive ones. When you manage to eliminate all negative thoughts in your head you will become free like Christ wanted us to be.

[hooter]

Please keep religion out of this thread.

[absent minded]

[I think I'll take this over to PM] It will go off-topic.

Edited by absent minded, 04 February 2012 - 04:40 PM.

[nupi]

Have you tried to take tianeprine, MB, bacopa with piracetam, phenibut, centrophenoxine, bupropion?

That is a weird list - safe, except for Phenibut which is anything but (then again, I am not too convinced MB is all that safe or effective for that matter). Read up on Phenibut and come to the same conclusion as I did: not worth touching

[nupi]

Folks, never take tianeptin, coz it is used by drug takes as a cheap substitute of heroine and actually is even more harmful than heroine. It causes emergence of thromboses in your veins and in many cases leads to amputation of arms and legs. It also destroys small vessels in your eyes causing permanent damage to eyes and vision!

It's not even remotely an opioid agonist, so citation please.

Edited by nupi, 05 February 2012 - 11:55 AM.

[Nootr]

Hi, tianeptine is quite safe. What is was referring to is drug-takers who crushed tablets into powder and were making injections into veins. the little pieces of powder caused thrombosis in smaller vessels which led to amputation.
I still insist that phenibut is quite safe without any withdrawal or negative effects unless you drive a car or work physically coz phenibut makes you rather slower. In other cases there is no need to avoid it coz it is also a nootropic. If you do not want even a possibility of withdrawal or tolerance take tenoten. It's antibodies which kill the molecules of depression. And by the way pediatric type of tenoten also improves memory.
Who can answer my question which i asked: if i take one day phenibut which downregulates receptors and the other day - theanine which upregulates receptos can I avoid tolerance to phenibut?

[hooter]

Folks, never take tianeptin, coz it is used by drug takes as a cheap substitute of heroine and actually is even more harmful than heroine. It causes emergence of thromboses in your veins and in many cases leads to amputation of arms and legs. It also destroys small vessels in your eyes causing permanent damage to eyes and vision!

It's not even remotely an opioid agonist, so citation please.

At extremely high doses (or IV administration) it apparently is. It's also useful for opiate withdrawal. Sorry don't have a citation, cause I'm a noob.

[niner]

If you go to pubmed and enter tianeptine opioid in the search bar, you get, among other hits, this:

Behav Pharmacol. 2010 Sep;21(5-6):523-9.
Tianeptine reduces morphine antinociceptive tolerance and physical dependence.
Chu CC, Shieh JP, Shui HA, Chen JY, Hsing CH, Tzeng JI, Wang JJ, Ho ST.

Department of Anesthesiology, Chia Nan University of Pharmacy and Science, Tainan, Taiwan.

Long-term use of morphine can cause neuronal dystrophic changes in specific areas of the brain. These changes may underlie the mechanism for developing morphine antinociceptive tolerance and physical dependence. We evaluated the effect of tianeptine, an antidepressant with prominent neuroprotective and neuroplastic properties, on the development of morphine antinociceptive tolerance and physical dependence. Male C57BL/6 mice were rendered tolerant to or dependent on morphine by subcutaneously injecting them with morphine (10 mg/kg) and intraperitoneally with saline or tianeptine (1, 3, or 5 mg/kg) twice daily for 6 days. The mice were given a daily tail-flick test 1 h after the first morphine injection to evaluate the development of their tolerance to morphine antinociception. To evaluate their physical dependence on morphine, 3 h after the final morphine injection on day 6, naloxone-HCl-precipitated (2 mg/kg, intraperitoneally) withdrawal symptoms were counted for 30 min, and body weight was checked 1 h after the naloxone injection. Tianeptine per se produced no antinociception, neither did it modify the antinociception produced by morphine, nor did it evoke the behavioral responses different from those in the saline controls. The combination of tianeptine with morphine significantly reduced the development of morphine antinociceptive tolerance and suppressed the incidence of naloxone-precipitated withdrawal symptoms. We conclude that tianeptine is an effective inhibitor of morphine-induced antinociceptive tolerance and physical dependence in mice. Our results would imply that comedication with tianeptine and morphine might benefit those who need long-term morphine treatment.

PMID: 20679893

[Tomas E]

A very good antidepressant for example is Stablon (tianeptine), it affects NMDA and AMPA instead of serotonin and increases NGF. It improves libido and elevates mood instead of dulling it. Initially it might cause some insomnia, but eventually it also improves sleep onset and quality. It's also neuroprotective and a respiratory stimulant.

It's been shown to have greater efficacy than SSRIs in both anxiety and depressive disorders, it's tolerable in bipolar depression and doesn't cause weight gain. It is also a mild anticonvulsant and an atypical analgesic. Tianeptine improves neuropathic pain, fibromyalgia and OCD.

Thanks for the information this might be a substitute for my wifes SSRI 'Citalopram" she has been on it for ages, and does not seem to help that much imo.

[chroncile]

Unfortunately Stablon isn't available in the US or here in Canada otherwise I would have tried it. I'm currently using Wellbutrin (Bupropion) for my depression. I just restarted it about 5 days ago. My psychiatrist won't let me get another prescription unless I make an appointment with the same exact counselor I was seeing in the past who did not help me whatsoever so I'm probably going to have to see a GP or maybe I can get a prescription from a walk-in clinic.

[niner]

Unfortunately Stablon isn't available in the US or here in Canada otherwise I would have tried it. I'm currently using Wellbutrin (Bupropion) for my depression. I just restarted it about 5 days ago. My psychiatrist won't let me get another prescription unless I make an appointment with the same exact counselor I was seeing in the past who did not help me whatsoever so I'm probably going to have to see a GP or maybe I can get a prescription from a walk-in clinic.

I wonder why Stablon isn't available in the US, UK, or Canada? If we want to raise the usual conspiracy theory, we might have a hard time explaining Canada, who isn't exactly a friend of Big Pharma.

Chronicile, does you psychiatrist you insist you see the SAME person, or would it be enough to see a different counselor? If the former, that seems extreme. In either case, the psychiatrist thinks that therapy would be very helpful, which is something to consider.

[protoject]

For myself, tianeptine is one of those drugs that seems overhyped as it did NOT produce any single positive effect for me with proper dosing over a long period of time. if anything it caused me to feel worse and more stupid. Maybe it looks nice on paper and works great for you, but it does nothing for me. As per SSRIs, I do believe that the belief that they would be likely to help someone without harming them, is pretty naive, however I also believe the OP is too black and white on the topic. If you have a tirade against SSRI's, I'm all for shedding light on the negative sides of SSRI's, but I do believe some moderation is called for in this area. Personally I found that several SSRI's didn't give me any of the negative effects that I had been hearing about years before trying any. [BTW, I tried most of mine NON-perscribed, but was also perscribed some]. Not only did those SSRI's give me none of those CRAZY side effects people mention [like causing rage, violence, suicidal tendencies/suicide, mania ETC.], but they also had no desired positive effect that I was seeking , and only made me feel physically doped. However, one SSRI that I did use recently [perscribed, last year in Sept] DID cause some horrible effects- i began having panic attacks after a week of using it, and did feel liek I could go crazy or psycho or manic, hence stopped taking them. The effects didn't go away until maybe a week or two after that so I do agree with the OP that there is potential damaging effects. Of course, even though I hadn't experienced these damaging effects before, I never denied anybody else had those effects. One of my roomates was on prozac I believe, and it made that roomate detached from reality in a sense, kind of manic, maybe a bit sociopathic, overall she was "high" and seemed excitable. But again, I tried prozac at a HIGH dose for about a month or maybe 6 wks and i had NO effect as such. [but again , no discernable positive effect either]. The only other SSRI I got a manic effect from was Luvox, but it has a super short half life compared to other SSRIs , plus I took like a triple dose that nobody takes so we could see why that happened [only that one time, went completely back to normal next day].

[Nootr]

Folks, what do you think about such mix?
Morning - Phenibut -1 tablet, omega-3, omega-6, MB - 1 ml, Centrophenoxine (improved DMAE)
Noon - MB 1 ml, Theanine - large therapeutic dose, Aniratetam and Bacopa moniera - high doses
Evening - MB - 1 ml, melatonin
I found that selegiline neither lowers down anxiety nor produces good mood but it definitely causes heart stress with me. It seems like no one has much positive experience from SSRI or SSRE or MAOIs which would dominate over alternative anxyolitics like Phenibut and GHB. GHB is magical staff but illegal everywhere. Phenibut makes you love the world and everything. No any other drug makes me feel this. And I noticed that its nootropic properties remain with time - no tolerance. The only tolerance you get is the euphoria effect which disappears but calmness remains. And stay away from coffee and nicotine. It will give phenibut the full power.
The mix that I mentioned is the most powerful and most cheap as to price-quality in my opinion. It also agrees with ScienceGuy's topic on non-harmful anxyolitics. You kill two hare with one shot - get super sharp mind, super calmness and love to the world.
If I had a possibility I would add here GHB with potassium and B-vitamins complexes for evening relaxation. People claim that the night after it becomes refreshing.

[hippocampus]

why omega-6? don't you get enough of these from food?
I would suggest not to take melatonin every day - only when needed, especially if you're young. It may elevate cortisol in long-term.

[Nootr]

What's the main harm from cortisol?

[chroncile]

Unfortunately Stablon isn't available in the US or here in Canada otherwise I would have tried it. I'm currently using Wellbutrin (Bupropion) for my depression. I just restarted it about 5 days ago. My psychiatrist won't let me get another prescription unless I make an appointment with the same exact counselor I was seeing in the past who did not help me whatsoever so I'm probably going to have to see a GP or maybe I can get a prescription from a walk-in clinic.

I wonder why Stablon isn't available in the US, UK, or Canada? If we want to raise the usual conspiracy theory, we might have a hard time explaining Canada, who isn't exactly a friend of Big Pharma.

Chronicile, does you psychiatrist you insist you see the SAME person, or would it be enough to see a different counselor? If the former, that seems extreme. In either case, the psychiatrist thinks that therapy would be very helpful, which is something to consider.

I tried therapy and didn't find it effective at all. I think my depression is mainly a biological one because of my extremely low motivation. I have no motivation to get out of bed, to drink water when thirsty or even to eat food. My depression just started for no reason and continued to worsen.

why omega-6? don't you get enough of these from food?
I would suggest not to take melatonin every day - only when needed, especially if you're young. It may elevate cortisol in long-term.

Do you have a source for that claim? I find it hard to believe melatonin, a hormone produced by your own body at night, can elevate cortisol in the long-term. Also, would this claim also affect depressed people? Depressed people usually produce less melatonin than healthy ones. I've been taking melatonin daily for about 2 months now and it has improved my sleep.

[hippocampus]

http://www.ncbi.nlm..../pubmed/9181519
The administration of melatonin elicited a marked increase in daytime cortisol levels in postmenopausal women (P < 0.02).
(but of course this may not apply to men and premenopausal women)
and maybe I don't understand this statement correctly - maybe it doesn't elevate cortisol long-term but only short-term.

Edited by hippocampus, 09 February 2012 - 11:08 PM.

[nowayout]

What's the main harm from cortisol?

Elevated cortisol can be bad for insulin sensitivity, cause increase in fat mass, cause loss of bone density and muscle mass, and be bad for cardiovascular health.

[niner]

http://www.ncbi.nlm..../pubmed/9181519
The administration of melatonin elicited a marked increase in daytime cortisol levels in postmenopausal women (P < 0.02).
(but of course this may not apply to men and premenopausal women)
and maybe I don't understand this statement correctly - maybe it doesn't elevate cortisol long-term but only short-term.

Those women were getting a preposterously large dose of 100mg. It was reversible in postmenopausal women by estrogen supplementation, and it didn't occur in young women given the same dose.

I'd be interested in knowing the long term consequences, if any, of low dose melatonin. I use 750mcg.

[TheKidInside]

can you guys sort this out for me then?
I normally take the following daily:

1. glucosamine chondroitin msm complex
2. acai supplement
3. resveratrol from Himalayan something or other
4. omega-3s from Nordic Naturals
5. Nature's Way Systemwell wellness formula
6. Nature's Way Alive multi-vitamin
7. Nature's Way Pridolophus (sp?) probiotics

on some days when i am in school: CDP-Choline and Bacopa (i normally take these two together, bacopa before food, cdp-choline with food)

much thanks :-)

also, I eat very healthy, tons of fruits, veggies, no fried food, virtually no processed food, etc.

[gt190]

is the anything wrong with what seems to be the general consensus basic stack on this forum?

vit d
vit k2
magnesium


i also take probiotics, bacopa and fermented cod liver oil (vitamin a low on cron o meter)

[manic_racetam]

Tianeptine is kind of unpredictable. It was an amazing mood stabilizer for me from week 2 to week 4, then I quit smoking using the nicotine patch and my mood swings started again. Since quitting the stabilizing effects never seemed to return like those first few weeks. I'm currently tapering off since (not only am I running out of it but) it seems to be losing it's effectiveness.

Maybe it has to do with regeneration of my hippocampus over the past few months on it? If it promotes regeneration of brain tissue... wouldn't it make sense that it wouldn't be needed forever? For example, after the damage has been repaired it could be discontinued and you'd be left with a new and improved brain?

I know that is over-simplified and impossible to gauge in my case... but wondering the soundness of such an idea... What do yall think?

Also, if requested I can produce the rat study where tianeptine (stablon) repaired damage to hippocampus in rats tortured in learned helplessness exercises.

[The Immortalist]

I'd like some knowledgable opinions on my certain case. I have been taking SSRI's since I was 14(I'm 18 now). It was due to feelings of depression because I moved to a new school and left all my friends behind (doctors gotta throw a pill at everything don't they?). I just want to make it clear I was far from suicidal so it wasn't anything extreme. I've been feeling many symptoms of SSRI use described in this thread such as apathy, lack of motivation, emotional numbness, feelings of detachment, indifference to surroundings and decreased response to sexual stimuli. I've also been so much more aggressive since taking SSRI's.
Have I damaged my brain in any way?
If I stop taking SSRI's will my symptoms go away? I remember the world being so real and able to fully experience everything before I was 14 but now I just feel like all of life's stimuli is blunted. I want to go back to what I was before. I feel that I can now deal with feelings of depression in a healthy way and not succumb to it.

Edited by The Immortalist, 22 February 2012 - 08:21 PM.

[niner]

I'd like some knowledgable opinions on my certain case. I have been taking SSRI's since I was 14(I'm 18 now). It was due to feelings of depression because I moved to a new school and left all my friends behind (doctors gotta throw a pill at everything don't they?). I just want to make it clear I was far from suicidal so it wasn't anything extreme. I've been feeling many symptoms of SSRI use described in this thread such as apathy, lack of motivation, emotional numbness, feelings of detachment, indifference to surroundings and decreased response to sexual stimuli. I've also been so much more aggressive since taking SSRI's.
Have I damaged my brain in any way?
If I stop taking SSRI's will my symptoms go away? I remember the world being so real and able to fully experience everything before I was 14 but now I just feel like all of life's stimuli is blunted. I want to go back to what I was before. I feel that I can now deal with feelings of depression in a healthy way and not succumb to it.

The symptoms you're describing all sound like symptoms of depression. Does that seem feasible to you, if you consider your overall life and happiness these days? SSRIs are known to 'poop out' at some point for a lot of people, even though they worked well for a while. Sometimes it can be dealt with by changing to a different agent, or adding something with a different MOA like Wellbutrin. If you're really experiencing symptoms of depression and you stop the SSRI (you should probably taper off if you want to quit), it will either stay the same or get worse, depending on whether the SSRI was still doing something for you or not. If the symptoms are caused by the SSRI, they will probably get better over time. Even if it's depression, it may well get better over time. You could make that more likely by avoiding alcohol and weed, and by getting a lot of exercise and eating well.

I'd like to feel like I was 21 again, but you can't necessarily turn back the clock. (yet, anyway) It sounds like what you're feeling is more than just normal maturation, so I think you should take whatever steps you need to sort that out. You might never feel like you're 13 again, but you should be able to feel like you're 18, which should be pretty good, aside from all the drama.

[hooter]

The symptoms you're describing all sound like symptoms of depression. Does that seem feasible to you, if you consider your overall life and happiness these days? SSRIs are known to 'poop out' at some point for a lot of people, even though they worked well for a while. Sometimes it can be dealt with by changing to a different agent, or adding something with a different MOA like Wellbutrin. If you're really experiencing symptoms of depression and you stop the SSRI (you should probably taper off if you want to quit), it will either stay the same or get worse, depending on whether the SSRI was still doing something for you or not. If the symptoms are caused by the SSRI, they will probably get better over time. Even if it's depression, it may well get better over time. You could make that more likely by avoiding alcohol and weed, and by getting a lot of exercise and eating well.

I'd like to feel like I was 21 again, but you can't necessarily turn back the clock. (yet, anyway) It sounds like what you're feeling is more than just normal maturation, so I think you should take whatever steps you need to sort that out. You might never feel like you're 13 again, but you should be able to feel like you're 18, which should be pretty good, aside from all the drama.

The symptoms he is describing are the chronic side effects of SSRIs. I have a chronic (its been 5 years since I stopped) lowering of libido and enjoyment from sex from SSRIs. And all they did was make my depression worse the longer I took them. It's so easy to say 'oh its depression, keep taking them'. This is why they're still installed, people don't realize that messing with serotonin causes precisely these problems.

Absolutely nobody should be taking SSRIs for depression, it's just as antiquated as a lobotomy and over time makes people into worthless beanbags.

Call me anti-ssri all you like, but these things ruined my fucking life. If I could go back in time to where I was first prescribed them, I would beat the fuck out of the doctor until he is unconscious.

Edited by hooter, 23 February 2012 - 08:24 AM.

[The Immortalist]

The symptoms you're describing all sound like symptoms of depression. Does that seem feasible to you, if you consider your overall life and happiness these days? SSRIs are known to 'poop out' at some point for a lot of people, even though they worked well for a while. Sometimes it can be dealt with by changing to a different agent, or adding something with a different MOA like Wellbutrin. If you're really experiencing symptoms of depression and you stop the SSRI (you should probably taper off if you want to quit), it will either stay the same or get worse, depending on whether the SSRI was still doing something for you or not. If the symptoms are caused by the SSRI, they will probably get better over time. Even if it's depression, it may well get better over time. You could make that more likely by avoiding alcohol and weed, and by getting a lot of exercise and eating well.

I'd like to feel like I was 21 again, but you can't necessarily turn back the clock. (yet, anyway) It sounds like what you're feeling is more than just normal maturation, so I think you should take whatever steps you need to sort that out. You might never feel like you're 13 again, but you should be able to feel like you're 18, which should be pretty good, aside from all the drama.

The symptoms he is describing are the chronic side effects of SSRIs. I have a chronic (its been 5 years since I stopped) lowering of libido and enjoyment from sex from SSRIs. And all they did was make my depression worse the longer I took them. It's so easy to say 'oh its depression, keep taking them'. This is why they're still installed, people don't realize that messing with serotonin causes precisely these problems.

Absolutely nobody should be taking SSRIs for depression, it's just as antiquated as a lobotomy and over time makes people into worthless beanbags.

Call me anti-ssri all you like, but these things ruined my fucking life. If I could go back in time to where I was first prescribed them, I would beat the fuck out of the doctor until he is unconscious.

How do you know your feeling awful now because of SSRI use and not plain old depression? Correlation does not imply causation. Just because the years since you've taken SSRI's have been as you described "ruined" doesn't necessarily mean that SSRI's are the cause of your "ruined life".
I've taken SSRI's for 4 years straight and it has far from ruined my life.

I'll just say that the way I'm feeling right now is just like right before I took SSRI's. I think the SSRI's helped me but now I just don't see the point in taking them anymore if I'm feeling the same way I am now as I did 4 years ago just before I took the SSRI's.

Does anyone know how to deal with depression safely without using drugs that don't work anymore after a number of years of taking them?

[nowayout]

SSRIs have been shown over and over NOT to do anything more than placebo for mild to moderate depression. They MAY help for severe depression only. There was a big exposé on this on 60 Minutes here in the U.S. last Sunday. Essentially, they were FDA approved based on misrepresentation, publication bias, and hidden and not so hidden monetary interests. The British Nation Health Service recently changed their guidelines based on the available evidence: Henceforth, the NHS will NOT treat mild to moderate depression with SSRIs, because they don't work.

This is not news. It has been known for years. I don't know how many more times this is going to have to be repeated before it sinks in.

Even worse, there is a lot of evidence showing that they make patients worse in the long run, compared to no treatment. Studies show SSRIs cause chronic depression, they make relapses more likely, and they can cause ordinary depression to turn into bipolar disorder.

Any doctor who would put a moderately depressed teenager on antidepressants for the duration of his formative years deserves to be shot.

Edited by viveutvivas, 24 February 2012 - 02:45 PM.