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TREATING ANXIETY SAFELY & EFFECTIVELY


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#121 Hebbeh

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Posted 22 February 2012 - 01:00 PM

No where in your grasping for always thinking you have to be right....which you aren't...

You would also have a little more credibility if you ditch the annoying bold, red, and caps.
I have to assume you either have no education, as a professor would have pitched you out of school if attempting to write papers in this manner...or you aren't old enough to be in school yet...or that you are prepping for a career in composing spam of the type we all so love to delete. Personally, I'm putting my money on not mature enough to be in school yet:

http://www.empowerin...nated-child.php#


Hebbeh,

Firstly, please can we ditch the unwarranted antagonistic condescending tone and petty puerile jibes, since we are both adults and hopefully friends who are engaging in intelligent debate. Let's try to keep our posts to a professional academic nature and in line with the spirit of this forum shall we? OK?


Secondly, it is abundantly clear that something I have said has highly irritated you, so I would like to apologise if I have in any way caused you offense...


It's interesting you use the term "condescending" as that seems to be your standard MO should anybody question or disagree with your opinions.
You've been very condescending to a number of highly intelligent and educated individuals on the forum and I'm not the only one to have noticed that.
A friendly bit of advice would be to take a good hard look at yourself before accusing others of being condescending.


OK, it's transparent that you are a very angry person.

With the utmost respect, I have done nothing whatsoever to warrant you verbally attacking me. Haven't you anything better to do than to come onto internet forums and try to pick fights with complete strangers? We have never even conversed before and yet you launch this wholly unwarranted barrage of attacks at me, when it is very clear to all that I am solely interesting in HELPING PEOPLE. What else do you do for kicks... visit hospitals and beat up cancer patients and old ladies for fun? :sad:

I am not going to fight with you. Furthermore, there is no need for me to defend myself when everything that you are saying is untrue.

I do not in any regard deserve this sort of verbal abuse, nor does anyone else who works within the medical industry who is devoting their entire life to HELPING PEOPLE; wherein individuals like you who persist in attacking the staff are nicely escorted off of the premises.

Please kindly note that I am in no regards angry with you, I have dealt with many people like your kind self who for one reason or another are currently ABUSIVE and AGGRESSIVE. In almost all case such people like you are not deep-down BAD PEOPLE; they simply currently have a DEMON that is causing them to act in said manner, such as ALCOHOLISM, DRUG ADDICTION or an ABUSIVE PARENT / SPOUSE. I have worked for many years within clinical practice and have treated many such individuals; some, I have managed to help beat their respective DEMON; but in other cases I have been unable to do so because said individual is not willing to help themselves or sometimes even acknowledge that they have a problem.

I will repeat the fact that I am by no means perfect. I make mistakes just like the next guy, and readily acknowledge as such when I do.

Furthermore, it is very easy to misconstrue my correcting factual inaccuracy as being somewhat condescending; however, this is an unfortunate hazard of the written word; it is easily misinterpreted. Believe me, if I was speaking with you in person you would have no doubt WHATSOEVER that my intentions are genuine and kind-hearted, and entirely devoid of condescension. :)

You can hurl all the verbal abuse you like at me, you will never get a rise out me, and so you will only be wasting your time. Please feel free to PM me and call me all the names you like. I would only ask that you cease contaminating this forum with your negativity which goes against the whole spirit of this forum. ;)


Once again, I only see one person calling names here...like I said, take a good hard look in the mirror. You are the only one making accusations and verbal insults...of course in your own cute little way...which fools no one. And it was I who attempted to offer a bit of friendly advice...advice you would be wise to ponder. Good day sir, I won't be wasting my time with you further.
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#122 hooter

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Posted 22 February 2012 - 01:32 PM

Once again, I only see one person calling names here...like I said, take a good hard look in the mirror. You are the only one making accusations and verbal insults...of course in your own cute little way...which fools no one. And it was I who attempted to offer a bit of friendly advice...advice you would be wise to ponder. Good day sir, I won't be wasting my time with you further.


As do I, and it's you.

You would also have a little more credibility if you ditch the annoying bold, red, and caps. I have to assume you either have no education, as a professor would have pitched you out of school if attempting to write papers in this manner...or you aren't old enough to be in school yet...or that you are prepping for a career in composing spam of the type we all so love to delete. Personally, I'm putting my money on not mature enough to be in school yet:


Not only are you rude without reason or basis, but you quoted the wrong person in your initial claim. Motor dysfunction and nerve damage is a result of B6, and I have conceded that I made a mistake. Yet, you decide it's appropriate to flip out.

You have engaged in an ad hominem discussion with Scienceguy while completely missing the point of this thread. You've essentially called him a child, do you not realize this is an insult? I have gone through your posting history and compared to Scienceguy's, you do not seem to have contributed much whatsoever. If you want to take things to a personal level in this puerile debate I suggest you at least contribute before attacking.

Scienceguy is one of the most educated and dedicated members of this forum and his claims are always supported with links to countless studies that he takes the time to highlight so that people can read them more easily. He has 20 years of experience with nootropics and is in medical school. If provided with contrary evidence, he without resistance adjusts his claims to align with the data. I don't understand your position whatsoever. What are you arguing against? Honestly, what's your problem? The only person engaging in any form of attack in this discussion is you. Do you have a persecution delusion and believe that Scienceguy is out to get you, or what? You should get some help... no offense this really doesn't seem normal. Did you perhaps take a medication that induces irritability?

This isn't a youtube video comments bar, kindly take your animosity somewhere else please.

Edited by hooter, 22 February 2012 - 01:50 PM.

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#123 ScienceGuy

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Posted 22 February 2012 - 02:00 PM

I won't be wasting my time with you further.


You promise? ;) :laugh:

For what it's worth, you clearly have your own DEMON that is causing you to act in this manner; and I wish you the very best and hope that someday you succeed in conquering it. I bear you no ill feeling and wish to point out that you will always be welcome if you wish to contribute something positive :)
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#124 ScienceGuy

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Posted 22 February 2012 - 02:24 PM

Once again, I only see one person calling names here...like I said, take a good hard look in the mirror. You are the only one making accusations and verbal insults...of course in your own cute little way...which fools no one. And it was I who attempted to offer a bit of friendly advice...advice you would be wise to ponder. Good day sir, I won't be wasting my time with you further.


As do I, and it's you.

You would also have a little more credibility if you ditch the annoying bold, red, and caps. I have to assume you either have no education, as a professor would have pitched you out of school if attempting to write papers in this manner...or you aren't old enough to be in school yet...or that you are prepping for a career in composing spam of the type we all so love to delete. Personally, I'm putting my money on not mature enough to be in school yet:


Not only are you rude without reason or basis, but you quoted the wrong person in your initial claim. Motor dysfunction and nerve damage is a result of B6, and I have conceded that I made a mistake. Yet, you decide it's appropriate to flip out.

You have engaged in an ad hominem discussion with Scienceguy while completely missing the point of this thread. You've essentially called him a child, do you not realize this is an insult? I have gone through your posting history and compared to Scienceguy's, you do not seem to have contributed much whatsoever. If you want to take things to a personal level in this puerile debate I suggest you at least contribute before attacking.

Scienceguy is one of the most educated and dedicated members of this forum and his claims are always supported with links to countless studies that he takes the time to highlight so that people can read them more easily. He has 20 years of experience with nootropics and is in medical school. If provided with contrary evidence, he without resistance adjusts his claims to align with the data. I don't understand your position whatsoever. What are you arguing against? Honestly, what's your problem? The only person engaging in any form of attack in this discussion is you. Do you have a persecution delusion and believe that Scienceguy is out to get you, or what? You should get some help... no offense this really doesn't seem normal. Did you perhaps take a medication that induces irritability?

This isn't a youtube video comments bar, kindly take your animosity somewhere else please.


Hey Hooter,

Thank you very much for the support. It's always nice to receive positive feedback! :)

Hebbah clearly has a DEMON of his own. I have worked within clinical practice treating ADDICTION and I have become too long-in-the-tooth to let this sort of behaviour rile me. It doesn't make me ANGRY any more, just SAD for them. People with DEMONS tend to fight everyone around them when in fact their only enemy is themselves ;)

Edited by ScienceGuy, 22 February 2012 - 02:25 PM.

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#125 hippocampus

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Posted 22 February 2012 - 07:52 PM

So, how much B12 or B6 is too much?

#126 ScienceGuy

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Posted 22 February 2012 - 08:39 PM

So, how much B12 or B6 is too much?


RE: VITAMIN B6

The Tolerable Upper Intake Level (UL) for VITAMIN B6, which is conclusively scientifically substantiated, is 200mg; wherein the dosage has been shown to cause an array of SIDE EFFECTS including NEUROPATHY.

However, there have been instances within clinical practice and anecdotal reports wherein NEUROPATHY has been seen with doses as low of 100mg with prolonged usage.

Furthermore the USA recommended Tolerable Upper Intake Level (UL) for VITAMIN B6 is 100mg

Therefore, I would recommend limiting VITAMIN B6 dosage to a maximum of 100mg daily ;)

RE: VITAMIN B12

Due to the ever increasing evidence linking VITAMIN B12 supplementation with INCREASED CANCER RISK I would advise against supplementing with any, unless you have tested deficient, in which case I would recommend taking the RDA :)

#127 noos

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Posted 22 February 2012 - 11:48 PM

Too high B6 can affect the cortex
http://fhc.amb.edu.p..._3/05_DEMIR.pdf

B12 and cancer? I did not know. At what dose?

#128 ScienceGuy

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Posted 23 February 2012 - 07:56 AM

Too high B6 can affect the cortex
http://fhc.amb.edu.p..._3/05_DEMIR.pdf

B12 and cancer? I did not know. At what dose?


Hey noos,

Thanks for the B6 study, nice one! :)

Personally, I only recommend supplementation of any of the B VITAMINS in the instance where you have undergone a blood test that demonstrates you to be suffering from a VITAMIN DEFICIENCY, in which case you should supplement solely with the RDA of the corresponding VITAMIN. In short, I am not a fan of taking wholly unecessary MEGA-DOSES / OVERDOSES of B VITAMINS, due to the ever increasing evidence that such supplementation is in fact UNHELPFUL, as in the cases of VITAMINS B6, B9 and B12 ;)

I should add that whilst this philososphy is most certainly wholly appropriate with regards to VITAMINS B9 and B12, it may or may not be somewhat overcautious with respect to the other B VITAMINS, in that there dose not yet exist comphrehensive substantiated evidence to conclusively demonstrate that supplementing with these other B VITAMINS at dosages above the RDA poses potential health risks; however, for those with the intuition to take 1 and 1 and make 2, and wish to be absolutely safe, then this is a sensible course of action. For those individuals wishing to exlcusively pay attention to the existing conclusively substantiated evidence, the dosages for the other B VITAMINS should be restricted to the respective Tolerable Upper Intake Levels :)

RE: B12 and cancer - In short, you should not supplement with ANY dose of VITAMIN B12, with the singular exception wherein VITAMIN B12 DEFICIENCY is being treated or prevented, in which case you should take the RDA. :)

Here is a summary of the 3 studies that I posted on the previous page of this thread:

Sem Hop. 1970 Jul 10;46(31):2170-4.

[Hazards of administering vitamin B12 to cancer patients].
[Article in French]

Chauvergne J, Hoerni B, Hugues A, Lagarde C, Le Treut A, Marée D, Touchard J.

PMID: 4318351

This study demonstrated that excessive B12 consumption encourages cell division in general and certain tumor cells in particular
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JAMA. 2009 Nov 18;302(19):2119-26.
Cancer incidence and mortality after treatment with folic acid and vitamin B12.

Ebbing M, Bønaa KH, Nygård O, Arnesen E, Ueland PM, Nordrehaug JE, Rasmussen K, Njølstad I, Refsum H, Nilsen DW, Tverdal A, Meyer K, Vollset SE.

This study demonstrates that “Treatment with folic acid plus vitamin B(12) was [is] associated with increased cancer”
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Cancer Epidemiol Biomarkers Prev. 2010 Jun;19(6):1632-42. Epub 2010 May 25.

Circulating folate, vitamin B12, homocysteine, vitamin B12 transport proteins, and risk of prostate cancer: a case-control study, systematic review, and meta-analysis.

Collin SM, Metcalfe C, Refsum H, Lewis SJ, Zuccolo L, Smith GD, Chen L, Harris
R, Davis M, Marsden G, Johnston C, Lane JA, Ebbing M, Bønaa KH, Nygård O, Ueland
PM, Grau MV, Baron JA, Donovan JL, Neal DE, Hamdy FC, Smith AD, Martin RM.

This study demonstrates that “Vitamin B(12) and (in cohort studies) folate were [are] associated with increased prostate cancer risk.”

Edited by ScienceGuy, 23 February 2012 - 08:22 AM.


#129 hippocampus

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Posted 23 February 2012 - 09:34 AM

but where would one buy "normal" (RDA) dose B12? I only find 1 mg on iherb, maybe the lowest I've seen was 100 mcg.

#130 noos

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Posted 23 February 2012 - 04:28 PM

Ok so there is a risk with Bs but when you already are at risk of cancer.

#131 ScienceGuy

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Posted 23 February 2012 - 04:32 PM

Ok so there is a risk with Bs but when you already are at risk of cancer.


Research indicates that surplus / excessive levels of VITAMINS B9 and B12 increase risk of CANCER in HEALTHY INDIVIDUALS too :)

#132 ScienceGuy

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Posted 23 February 2012 - 04:34 PM

but where would one buy "normal" (RDA) dose B12? I only find 1 mg on iherb, maybe the lowest I've seen was 100 mcg.


I would recommend buying a LIQUID FORM VITAMIN B12 product as this will allow for taking RDA dosage; and you can simply dilute it further if necessary :)

#133 manic_racetam

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Posted 23 February 2012 - 04:53 PM

So, how much B12 or B6 is too much?

.........
RE: VITAMIN B12

Due to the ever increasing evidence linking VITAMIN B12 supplementation with INCREASED CANCER RISK I would advise against supplementing with any, unless you have tested deficient, in which case I would recommend taking the RDA :)


Thanks for all this research. I noticed my grandparents are taking mega-B12 in sublingual form. I've heard people say that elderly people have lower B-vitamin absorbtion rates and are at higher risk of deficiency. So it's been suggested that large doses of B-12 are recommended for elderly patients.

In your opinion would the RDA of B12 still be the maximum recommended in elderly patients or is it true that they may need more?

#134 ScienceGuy

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Posted 23 February 2012 - 07:54 PM

So, how much B12 or B6 is too much?

.........
RE: VITAMIN B12

Due to the ever increasing evidence linking VITAMIN B12 supplementation with INCREASED CANCER RISK I would advise against supplementing with any, unless you have tested deficient, in which case I would recommend taking the RDA :)


Thanks for all this research. I noticed my grandparents are taking mega-B12 in sublingual form. I've heard people say that elderly people have lower B-vitamin absorbtion rates and are at higher risk of deficiency. So it's been suggested that large doses of B-12 are recommended for elderly patients.

In your opinion would the RDA of B12 still be the maximum recommended in elderly patients or is it true that they may need more?


Yes, it is indeed the case that eldery people have lower B VITAMIN ABSORPTION, and hence the dosage would need to be INCREASED appropriately. :)

#135 hippocampus

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Posted 23 February 2012 - 09:27 PM

I wonder if supplemental B12 has lower or higher absorption than "natural" B12? This may be relevant to dosing. And does this cancer connection apply to all forms of B12 (hydroxi-, ciano-, methyl-)? I know that there is e.g. difference between follic acid and methyfolate in cancer risk, maybe it's similar here.

#136 Raptor87

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Posted 24 February 2012 - 11:46 AM

I wonder if supplemental B12 has lower or higher absorption than "natural" B12? This may be relevant to dosing. And does this cancer connection apply to all forms of B12 (hydroxi-, ciano-, methyl-)? I know that there is e.g. difference between follic acid and methyfolate in cancer risk, maybe it's similar here.


You could probably swallow the whole bottle without raising your B12 levels. B12 depends on (IF) intristic factor. You won´t absorb more than your intestines allow you to. That´s why M-B12 is preferred.

Increased vitamin B12 levels are uncommon because excess vitamins are removed through urine.

A blood test can also lie, you can have normal B12 but still be defiant. That´s why a Schillings test or MMA, CBC test is preferred when doing a test.

http://www.aafp.org/.../0301/p979.html

So B12 toxicity is uncommon. How it relates to M-B12 is hard to say. There is no evidence how it affects the body. I am taking a very dangerous dose I know (5000mcg*2/day) and I have been taking 5000mcg/day for 4-5 months now! I am still living, although shit scared for prostate cancer as high B12 levels is said to cause prostatecancer even though studies differ.

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/18268110

Edited by Brainfogged, 24 February 2012 - 11:55 AM.


#137 Raptor87

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Posted 24 February 2012 - 11:49 AM

I haven´t seen any evidence that suggest´s that M-B12 would be dangerous in higher dosages. That doesn´t mean that it isn´t dangerous. But I am thinking of keeping the mega dose on my long term stack because I have sensed some improvement. I hope that this doesn´t come and bite me in the ass though.


Excessive doses taken over long periods of time can cause nerve damage, numbness and dysfunctions in motor control. I'm not certain of the upper limits, but this would be a good topic of research. Be careful.


Excessive dosages are said to promote nerve regeneration. How it is bound to a specific timeline is hard to say.
http://www.ncbi.nlm..../pubmed/8021696

#138 Raptor87

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Posted 24 February 2012 - 11:51 AM

Here is a homepage dedicated to B12 testing.

http://www.b12.com/

#139 Raptor87

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Posted 24 February 2012 - 12:03 PM

If one doesn´t want to take M-B12 on a daily basis as a treatment for anxiety then I am recommending a single high dose before stressful events instead. Might come in handy when in CBT treatment or when approaching phobic events. For me it has worked as a great tool as I could stand and hold a lecture. I suffer from panic attacks and have severe stage fright, I also suffer from social phobia. When I took M-B12 5000mcg it became a whole lot easier.

I can also recommend adaptogens, these have served me well.
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#140 hippocampus

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Posted 24 February 2012 - 12:17 PM

Does tolerance develops to these effects?

#141 Raptor87

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Posted 24 February 2012 - 03:42 PM

Does tolerance develops to these effects?


In what aspect?

If you are talking about b12´s anxiolytic properties, then no! You don´t build tolerance.

What is of concern for me is how and why B12 is anxiolytic? I haven´t found any real studies that target´s the issue. If someone knows more about this then please share.

There´s evidence that suggest´s that M-B12 affect´s melatonin secretion. Maybe it has something to do with 5-ht/serotonin/dopamine conversion.

The only thing I know of today is that there is a whole lot more to Cobalamin and other vitamins dependent on intestinal balance than we know of today. I think that our modern diet is a reason for a whole lot of subtle symptoms and diseases, not to mention bio- active properties in our blood system. But that´s a whole other aspect and targets the diet, which is important at least when we are looking at bloodsugar levels and anxiety. It is highly important to have a blood sugar balance and evaluating one´s diet if you suffer from anxiety. Eat at regular hours and avoid bloodsugar spikes!

#142 hippocampus

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Posted 24 February 2012 - 06:36 PM

Yes, about anxiolytic properties. I haven't yet found any substance to which I wouldn't develop tolerance with everyday use (except maybe antidepressants which I will not take unless absolutely necessary).

#143 ScienceGuy

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Posted 24 February 2012 - 07:57 PM

Yes, about anxiolytic properties. I haven't yet found any substance to which I wouldn't develop tolerance with everyday use (except maybe antidepressants which I will not take unless absolutely necessary).


Have you tried everything on my list? :)

Namely:

1) GARUM ARMORICUM (brands: STABILIUM; ADAPTON)

2) MAGNESIUM

3) BACOPA MONNIERI


4) RHODIOLA ROSEA

5) RELORA (MAGNOLIA OFFICINALIS and PHELLODENDRON AMURENSE) (Thank you to AMPA-OMEGA for mentioning this!)

6) THEANINE

7) LOW DOSE NALTREXONE (LDN)


8) AFOBAZOLE

9) TIANEPTINE

10) ESCITALOPRAM

11) PIRACETAM (at 9.8 - 24g total daily dosage)

12) ANIRACETAM

13) PROPRANOLOL

14) CLONIDINE (Thanks goes to STEVE_86 for mentioning this!)

EDITED 26/02/2012:

15) INOSITOL (MYO-INOSITOL) (Thank you to BRAINFOGGED for suggesting this!)

Edited by ScienceGuy, 26 February 2012 - 04:24 PM.


#144 hippocampus

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Posted 24 February 2012 - 10:13 PM

I've tried theanine, magnesium (although now I'm buying malate, so I'll report back), piracetam (although in low doses - I can't buy it in my country, so this is not a long-term option), rhodiola (needs cycling). Others aren't available in my country, so they are not an option (maybe from time to time, when I get a chance to order something from iherb - but it's kind of a lottery to get some pharmaceuticals over the border). I also don't have strong anxiety, mostly just OCD and situational anxiety, so I help myself with kava (I limit use to once a week max.), turmeric and omega-3 also help me :) (and of course meditation, psychotherapy and other lifestyle changes). I'm also buying lithium (I'm not worried about antinootropic effects but if it would be to bad I'll quit it). I'll also buy bacopa in few months probably.

#145 Nealio

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Posted 24 February 2012 - 10:14 PM

ScienceGuy, thanks for all this helpful info. I was wondering where you would place niacinamide on your go/no-go list of substances ?
I'm curious to know because it is very effective for me in relieving anxiety, and synergizes very well with theanine.

#146 Raptor87

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Posted 24 February 2012 - 11:09 PM

I've tried theanine, magnesium (although now I'm buying malate, so I'll report back), piracetam (although in low doses - I can't buy it in my country, so this is not a long-term option), rhodiola (needs cycling). Others aren't available in my country, so they are not an option (maybe from time to time, when I get a chance to order something from iherb - but it's kind of a lottery to get some pharmaceuticals over the border). I also don't have strong anxiety, mostly just OCD and situational anxiety, so I help myself with kava (I limit use to once a week max.), turmeric and omega-3 also help me :) (and of course meditation, psychotherapy and other lifestyle changes). I'm also buying lithium (I'm not worried about antinootropic effects but if it would be to bad I'll quit it). I'll also buy bacopa in few months probably.


Have you tried inositol for your OCD?

http://www.sciencedi...278584601002445
http://www.europeann...0409-4/abstract
http://www.springerl...7115101k3677p4/

I don't remember the dosage but it was very high. You can probably find it by a simple search.

#147 ScienceGuy

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Posted 25 February 2012 - 01:30 PM

What about Niacinamide...


ScienceGuy, thanks for all this helpful info. I was wondering where you would place niacinamide on your go/no-go list of substances ?
I'm curious to know because it is very effective for me in relieving anxiety...


NIACINAMIDE

I have added NIACINAMIDE to the POSSIBLY TO AVOID list, for four reasons, namely:

1) There is evidence that NIACINAMIDE is NEUROTOXIC when taken at the high doses that produce its ANXIOLYTIC effects.

2) There is evidence that to some extent NIACINAMIDE exerts at least part of its ANXIOLYTIC effects via the GABA PATHWAY / RECEPTORS; however, there currently is conflicting information regards the full extent that NIACINAMIDE influences the GABA RECEPTORS, in that whilst some studies indicate that NIACINAMIDE is very much a GABA RECEPTOR AGONIST, others indicate that NIACINAMIDE is either NOT a GABA RECEPTOR AGONIST or is a very weak one.

3) There is an ever increasing amount of evidence that indicates taking MEGA DOSES / OVER-DOSES of VITAMINS is ill advised and may present a variety of HEALTH RISKS when taken for the long-term; this applies to NIACINAMIDE, which is a form of VITAMIN B3.

4) NIACINAMIDE when taken at the high doses that produce its ANXIOLYTIC effects has a number of potential SIDE EFFECTS, which includes (but is not limited to): DRY MOUTH, NAUSEA, SEDATION, and HEPATIC (LIVER) TOXICITY (N.B. this specifically is DOSAGE DEPENDANT).

STUDIES INDICATING THAT NIACINAMIDE IS NEUROTOXIC:

Neurosci Lett. 1985 Mar 15;54(2-3):173-7.

gamma-Aminobutyric acid modulation of benzodiazepine receptor binding in vitro does not predict the pharmacologic activity of all benzodiazepine receptor ligands.

Chweh AY, Swinyard EA, Wolf HH.

Abstract
gamma-Aminobutyric acid (GABA) modulation of triazolam and nicotinamide binding to benzodiazepine (BDZ) receptors in vitro was compared with the neurotoxicity and anticonvulsant activity of these two drugs in vivo. GABA had no significant effect on the inhibitory potency of triazolam in [3H]flunitrazepam receptor binding, whereas GABA decreased the inhibitory potency of nicotinamide. When administered to mice, both triazolam and nicotinamide [niacinamide] exhibited neurotoxicity by the rotorod test and anticonvulsant activity by the pentylenetetrazol seizure threshold test. This suggests that GABA modulation of the receptor binding of a BDZ ligand in vitro is not a reliable predictor of the pharmacologic activity of the ligand.

PMID: 2859562

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J Neurochem. 2000 Sep;75(3):982-90.

2-Deoxy-D-glucose prevents and nicotinamide [niacinamide] potentiates 3, 4-methylenedioxymethamphetamine-induced serotonin neurotoxicity.

Hervías I, Lasheras B, Aguirre N.

Source
Department of Pharmacology, University of Navarra Medical School, Pamplona, Spain.

Abstract
Neurotoxicity induced by different substituted amphetamines has been associated with the exhaustion of intracellular energy stores. Accordingly, we examined the influence of 2-deoxy-D-glucose (2-DG), a competitive inhibitor of glucose uptake and metabolism, and nicotinamide, an agent that improves energy metabolism, on 3, 4-methylenedioxymethamphetamine (MDMA)-induced 5-hydroxytryptamine (5-HT; serotonin) deficits. Administration of MDMA (15 mg/kg i.p.) produced a significant hyperthermia, whereas 2-DG caused a profound hypothermia that lasted throughout the experiment. When MDMA was given to 2-DG-treated rats, an immediate but transient hyperthermia occurred and was followed by a return to hypothermia. 2-DG had no effect on 5-HT concentrations in the frontal cortex, hippocampus, and striatum but prevented the neurotoxicity induced by MDMA. When rats were injected with 2-DG/MDMA and were warmed to prevent hypothermia, the protection afforded by 2-DG was abolished. Nicotinamide had no effect on body temperature of the rats, and the hyperthermia induced by the nicotinamide/MDMA treatment was similar to that of the saline/MDMA-treated rats. However, the long-term 5-HT deficits induced by MDMA were potentiated by nicotinamide [niacinamide] in all the brain regions examined. Finally, no change on ATP concentrations in the frontal cortex, hippocampus, and striatum was observed up to 3 h after a single dose of MDMA. These results suggest that an altered energy metabolism is not the main cause of the neurotoxic effects induced by MDMA.

PMID: 10936179

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STUDIES INDICATING THAT NIACINAMIDE IS NOT (OR IS A VERY WEAK) GABA RECEPTOR AGONIST:

Br J Pharmacol. 1985 March; 84(3): 689–696.

Central effects of nicotinamide and inosine which are not mediated through benzodiazepine receptors.

J. M. Bold, C. R. Gardner, and R. J. Walker

Abstract

The actions of nicotinamide and inosine were investigated on rat cerebellar Purkinje cells using ionophoretic and extracellular recording techniques. Ionophoretic application of nicotinamide or inosine showed that they were potent inhibitors of Purkinje cell firing. This inhibition differed from that induced by benzodiazepines in that it was not reversed by the GABA antagonists bicuculline methiodide and picrotoxin. RO 15-1788, the specific benzodiazepine antagonist, did not reverse the effects of nicotinamide. Chlordiazepoxide has been shown to increase significantly social interaction between pairs of male rats and this increase can be reversed by RO 15-1788, 20 mg kg-1 i.p. Nicotinamide also caused a small increase in social interaction but this effect was not reversed by the benzodiazepine antagonist. Inosine did not increase social interaction. [3H]-flunitrazepam binding studies showed that nicotinamide and inosine have only low affinities for the benzodiazepine binding site. These results suggest that while nicotinamide may exert some neuronal depressant and anxiolytic activity, its site of action appears not to be associated with the benzodiazepine receptor site. Similarly, inosine exerts a neuronal depressant effect dissimilar from that of benzodiazepines.

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Biokhimiia. 1989 Mar;54(3):381-6.

[Solubilization of the central benzodiazepine receptor and study of its interaction with nicotinamide].
[Article in Russian]

Fomenko AI, Stepanenko SP, Donchenko GV, Khalmuradov AG.

Abstract
It was shown that nicotinamide and NAD inhibit the specific binding of [3H]flunitrazepam to benzdiazepine receptors without causing a direct influence of gamma-aminobutyric acid (GABA) receptors. The GABA-benzdiazepine complex was separated by solubilization with 0.5% lubrol PX. The solubilized preparations contain the binding sites for [3H]flunitrazepam alone (Kd = 5.9 nm). The Kd value for the membrane-bound benzdiazepine receptor is 2.9 nM. NAD inhibited the specific binding of [3H]flunitrazepam to the solubilized membrane preparation when used at concentrations by several orders of magnitude lower than that of nicotinamide. Using gel filtration on Sepharose 6B-CL, the molecular mass of the soluble benzdiazepine receptor protein was determined.

PMID: 2546611
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STUDIES INDICATING THAT NIACINAMIDE IS A GABA RECEPTOR AGONIST:

Nature. 1979 Apr 5;278(5704):563-5.

Nicotinamide is a brain constituent with benzodiazepine-like actions.

Möhler H, Polc P, Cumin R, Pieri L, Kettler R.

PMID: 155222

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Ann Ist Super Sanita. 1982;18(1):95-8.

Pharmacological effects of nicotinamide. Probable endogenous ligand of benzodiazepine receptors.

Voronina TA.

PMID: 6303184
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J Orthomolecular Medicine 2005; 20(3): 167-178

Supplemental Niacinamide Mitigates Anxiety Symptoms: Three Case Reports

Prousky J E

Extract from Full Text

Abstract
The purpose of this report is to highlight the potential of niacinamide for the treatment of anxiety disorders. Three patients
were prescribed large pharmacological doses of niacinamide (2,000-2,500 mg per day). Each of the patients had considerable relief from their anxiety when regularly using niacinamide. The possible biochemical reasons for niacinamide’s effectiveness might be related to the correction of subclinical pellagra, the correction of an underlying vitamin B3 dependency disorder, its benzodiazepine-like effects, its ability to raise serotonin levels, or its ability to modify the metabolism of blood lactate (lactic acid). Adverse effects did not occur with these doses, but nausea and vomiting can occur when doses as high as 6,000 mg per day are used. These positive case reports suggest that niacinamide might be helpful for the treatment of anxiety disorders. However, definitive proof requires properly conducted randomized controlled trials to assess niacinamide’s actual therapeutic effects and adverse effects profile.

Benzodiazepine-like Properties
Additional reasons for niacinamide’s effectiveness likely have to do with its benzodiazepine-like effects. In a previous review of the literature by Hoffer, both niacin and niacinamide were shown to have some sedative activity, and were able to potentiate the action of sedatives, anticonvulsant medications and certain tranquilizers.24 In a recent case report by this author, a review of the literature was undertaken to determine the biological mechanism for niacinamide’s anxiolytic effects.14 Table 2 (p.174) summarizes this data.25-30 It appears that niacinamide has therapeutic effects comparable to the benzodiazepines. Its therapeutic effects are probably not related to it acting as a ligand for the benzodiazepine receptor, although it acts centrally and might have a weak binding affinity for the benzodiazepine receptor.

Both the benzodiazepines and niacinamide exert similar anxiolytic effects through the modulation of neurotransmitters commonly unbalanced in anxiety.

Serotonin Synthesis
Another biochemical reason for niacinamide’s anxiolytic effects might have to do with the vital role that it has upon the synthesis of serotonin. For example, in a patient with anorexia nervosa an insufficient supply of vitamin B3 or protein resulted in reduced urinary levels of the serotonin breakdown product, 5-hydroxy-indolacetic acid (5-HIAA).32 The authors of this report postulated that a deficiency of vitamin B3 reduced the feedback inhibition upon the kynurenine pathway, resulting in more tryptophan being diverted to the kynurenine pathway, making less substrate available for the synthesis of serotonin. By contrast, the use of pharmacological doses of vitamin B3 can increase the production of serotonin.33 In a rat study, the administration of 20 mg of niacin resulted in increased levels of 5-HIAA and decreased levels of anthurenic acid via the kynurenine pathway.34 Taking pharmacological doses of niacinamide (or any other form of vitamin B3) would increase the production of serotonin, by diverting more tryptophan to become substrate for serotonin synthesis. Niacinamide’s therapeutic ability to increase serotonin production might explain why it was successful in reducing the anxiety symptoms of the three patients.

Modulation of Blood Lactate (lactic acid)
The final biochemical reason for niacinamide’s favourable effect might have to do with its ability to modulate the metabolismof blood lactate (lactic acid)…

Prescribing Instructions
In terms of proper dosing, most patients require a minimum of 2,000-4,500 mg per day to achieve therapeutic results…

The most common side effect with niacinamide is sedation,43 but dry mouth and nausea have been the most common side effects... There has been one case report linking large pharmacological doses of niacinamide (9 g per day) to hepatic [liver] toxicity.

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Biull Eksp Biol Med. 1986 Mar;101(3):329-31.

[Mechanism of the tranquilizing action of electron structural analogs of nicotinamide].
[Article in Russian]

Akhundov RA, Rozhanets VV, Voronina TA, Val'dman AV.

Abstract
The interaction of nicotinamide and its electron structural analogs (NMF and AzN compounds) with central benzodiazepine receptor antagonist Ro 15-1788 and GABA-ergic system antagonist bicuculline were studied in a conflicting situation test. NMF and AzN behaved as the agonists of GABA-benzodiazepine receptor complex. Like in diazepam, the anxiolytic effects of benzodiazepines and nicotinamide was prevented by bicuculline and Ro 15-1788. The given compounds were shown to be more active, than nicotinamide.

PMID: 2869801

This study indicates that NIACINAMIDE is a GABA RECEPTOR AGONIST

Edited by ScienceGuy, 25 February 2012 - 01:40 PM.


#148 noos

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Posted 25 February 2012 - 03:02 PM

Anyone tried aniracetam and felt any anxiolytic effect? I did not, but maybe my test was not long enough.

#149 ScienceGuy

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Posted 25 February 2012 - 05:47 PM

Anyone tried aniracetam and felt any anxiolytic effect? I did not, but maybe my test was not long enough.


I experienced the ANXOLYTIC effect from ANIRACETAM, however the problem for me was that I found ANIRACETAM to induce BRAIN FOG as well. I am one of those people who, with regards to NOOTROPIC effects specifically, responds very well to OXIRACETAM, but poorly to ANIRACETAM ;)

Personally, I have found that PIRACETAM at 5g dosage taken 2-3 times daily, with 3+ hours in-between doses to yield pretty decent ANXIOLYTIC effects; so, for me with regards to ANXIOLYTIC effects I prefer PIRACETAM to ANIRACETAM :)

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#150 ScienceGuy

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Posted 25 February 2012 - 07:24 PM

What about... Atarax?


HYDROXYZINE (Brand name: Atarax) is classified as a HIGH RISK MEDICATION and as such cannot be categorised as SAFE; consequently, it has a high incidence of SIDE EFFECTS and physicians are cautioned against prescribing it to the elderly, or pregant women (due to potential for causing harm to the unborn baby), or children; :|o

Furthermore, HYDROXYZINE can in fact CAUSE or EXACERBATE ANXIETY ;)

For these reasons, HYDROXYZINE is not on the positive list :)

Also, for someone who was using low doses of GABA agonists who wanted to start tapering down even more and/or wanted to avoid/lessen tolerance would cycling between GABA-A agonists and GABA-B agonsits be of any benefit?


I recommend against prolonged usage of all GABA RECEPTOR AGONISTS for the medium to long-term :)
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