809 replies to this topic

[ScienceGuy]

Scienceguy, do you know that people with low blood pressure may have brachycardia from taking additional magnesium and this can be even lethal? That means that magnesium is not a safe way to treat anxiety since it can cause death.

Any and every DRUG and NUTRACEUTICAL have CONTRAINDICATIONS.

MAGNESIUM is CONTRAINDICATED in individuals suffering from HYPOTENSION; however, it most certainly IS SAFE for any and all individuals wherein it is NOT CONTRAINDICATED, which is in the vast majority of individuals

One must be careful not to throw the 'baby out with the bathwater'

[hooter]

Scienceguy, do you know that people with low blood pressure may have brachycardia from taking additional magnesium and this can be even lethal? That means that magnesium is not a safe way to treat anxiety since it can cause death.

One must be careful not to throw the 'baby out with the bathwater'

The more I hear that phrase the more I want to, population is getting out of hand anyway.

[ScienceGuy]

Scienceguy, do you know that people with low blood pressure may have brachycardia from taking additional magnesium and this can be even lethal? That means that magnesium is not a safe way to treat anxiety since it can cause death.

I like this, it's good advice. Taking huge amounts of magnesium is completely BS for anxiety. You'll mess up your blood levels. Spend your money on something useful.

You might like to read the attached FULL TEXT, titled "Hippocampal NMDA receptors and anxiety" which explains in detail the mechanism of action through which MAGNESIUM is an effective ANXIOLYTIC

Oh and you might want to rethink this statement too:

I note that neither have access to medical journals. I remember Scienceguy saying that he cannot read the full texts.

Incidentally, for the record, I have NEVER said to you, nor anyone else that I "cannot read the full texts".

I do in fact have access to medical journals as well as full texts, which anyone with more than a single digit IQ would be able to deduce from the fact that SEVERAL of the studies that I have posted within this very thread contain the words "Extract from Full Text" instead of "Abstract", wherein each instance I have taken considerable time to go through the entire FULL TEXT, edit it, and highlight the salient points so as to make it more readable for everyone; furthermore I have attached a couple of FULL TEXTS to my initial posting

Attached Files

•  Hippocampal NMDA receptors and anxiety - At the interface.pdf   308.81KB   17 downloads

[hippocampus]

Scienceguy, do you know that people with low blood pressure may have brachycardia from taking additional magnesium and this can be even lethal? That means that magnesium is not a safe way to treat anxiety since it can cause death.

Any and every DRUG and NUTRACEUTICAL have CONTRAINDICATIONS.

MAGNESIUM is CONTRAINDICATED in individuals suffering from HYPOTENSION; however, it most certainly IS SAFE for any and all individuals wherein it is NOT CONTRAINDICATED, which is in the vast majority of individuals

One must be careful not to throw the 'baby out with the bathwater'

You said similar for fish oil: it may help majority of ppl, but can be bad for people who already have good omega 3:6 ratio. Wouldn't be proper to recommend people fish oil and include some kind of warning that it may be bad for some people?

[hooter]

You might like to read the attached FULL TEXT, titled "Hippocampal NMDA receptors and anxiety" which explains in detail the mechanism of action through which MAGNESIUM is an effective ANXIOLYTIC

I do in fact have access to medical journals as well as full texts, which anyone with more than a single digit IQ would be able to deduce from the fact that SEVERAL of the studies that I have posted within this very thread contain the words "Extract from Full Text" instead of "Abstract", wherein each instance I have taken considerable time to go through the entire FULL TEXT, edit it, and highlight the salient points so as to make it more readable for everyone; furthermore I have attached a couple of FULL TEXTS to my initial posting

There's no way to make Scienceguy unhelpful, I give up.

[ScienceGuy]

Scienceguy, do you know that people with low blood pressure may have brachycardia from taking additional magnesium and this can be even lethal? That means that magnesium is not a safe way to treat anxiety since it can cause death.

Any and every DRUG and NUTRACEUTICAL have CONTRAINDICATIONS.

MAGNESIUM is CONTRAINDICATED in individuals suffering from HYPOTENSION; however, it most certainly IS SAFE for any and all individuals wherein it is NOT CONTRAINDICATED, which is in the vast majority of individuals

One must be careful not to throw the 'baby out with the bathwater'

You said similar for fish oil: it may help majority of ppl, but can be bad for people who already have good omega 3:6 ratio. Wouldn't be proper to recommend people fish oil and include some kind of warning that it may be bad for some people?

Hey hippocampus,

Whilst the number of individuals who fall within being "bad for some people" is significantly lower for MAGNESIUM than it is FISH OIL, I do believe that your argument on behalf of FISH OIL in relation to treating ANXIETY is INTELLIGENT and SOUND

As such, I would most certainly consider adding FISH OIL to at the very least the 'POSSIBLY' TO TAKE positive list; however, please kindly be a patient with me in this regard, since firstly my thread posting is temporarily 'broken', which is temporarily preventing my ability to make the necessary addition to the initial posting, but the LONGECITY elves are busy working on fixing the problem for me; and secondly, for a variety of reasons I will now be taking a break from this thread and this forum for a while. I will most certainly endeavour to revisit this for you if or when I return.

Edited by ScienceGuy, 02 March 2012 - 10:03 AM.

[ScienceGuy]

Hi everyone,

Please kindly note that for a variety of reasons I will now be taking a break from this thread and this forum for a while.

I'd like to say a huge THANK YOU to everyone who has contributed POSITIVELY to this thread in particular as well as this forum.

I will most certainly endevour to revisit this thread and takes matters forward if or when I return.

In the interim I wish you all the very best; and for the time being this is ScienceGuy signing out.

[Nootr]

It's not a small group of population that have hypotenstion. Probably a little less than people with hypertension. People who are slim and do not work physically are prone to have hypotension. In addition to this after 60s when the scientists proclaimed that "Salt is the white death" people started to limit themselves in consumption of salt which increased even more the number of hypotensive people as well as the rate of cancer. At the same time the government makes people eat more sugar and starch. So the hypotensive people should avoid magnesium untill they restore their blood pressure to at least 100/60. Otherwise additional magnesium will be life-threatening for them. People who do not go to the toilet often and do not drink much liquid may have hypermagnesium levels and additional magnesium for them is a contradiction also. At the same time hypotensive people may also have lack of magnesium but prior to taking it they must restore their blood pressure by adding more salt to their food.
If additional magnesium results in diarrhea that means that the dose of magnesium was two high.
All this information must be added to the first post.

[Nootr]

By the way, I have hypotension and after taking magnesium yesterday I have noticed that it makes me more calm and my vision has improved! I have heard many claims that additional magnesium improves vision and it should be the truth. At the same time i have all the negative side affects from magnesium like abnormal stool and lowered blood pressure at the edge of brachycardia, difficult to walk and do physical work.
Also I want to add that people who have twitching of limbs or eyes or face muscles lack calcium and not magnesium but the interesting thing is that calcium is not absorbed at the cell level without magnesium. That's why scientists recommend to take magnesium with calcium in proportion of 1 to 2.5 (calcium dominates). Lack of magnesium results in calcium deposits in connecting tissues. So calcium must be taken with magnesium but only in the case when you have normal level of magnesium. If you have lack of magnesium you should take them separately coz calcium inhibits intake of magnesium and magnesium deficit will not be removed.

[hooter]

Magnesium made me faint for the first time in my life and it made my anxiety worse. A friend of mine also had anxiogenic effects from magnesium. This is highly individual. Supplementing with single minerals isn't reasonable without knowledge of deficiency or blood levels. As much as I want to agree with Scienceguy, I don't think magnesium is an effective anxiolytic for people with anxiety disorders. Start with the other things on the list first.

[nito]

Hi everyone,

Please kindly note that for a variety of reasons I will now be taking a break from this thread and this forum for a while.

I'd like to say a huge THANK YOU to everyone who has contributed POSITIVELY to this thread in particular as well as this forum.

I will most certainly endevour to revisit this thread and takes matters forward if or when I return.

In the interim I wish you all the very best; and for the time being this is ScienceGuy signing out.

You've certainly brought alot of useful contribution in this thread,too bad you going for while. Oh im gonna miss your and

[wowser]

Magnesium made me faint for the first time in my life and it made my anxiety worse. A friend of mine also had anxiogenic effects from magnesium. This is highly individual. Supplementing with single minerals isn't reasonable without knowledge of deficiency or blood levels. As much as I want to agree with Scienceguy, I don't think magnesium is an effective anxiolytic for people with anxiety disorders. Start with the other things on the list first.

i don't think scienceboy is suggesting magnesium should be the first choice for treating anxiety anyway. see what he says here:

MAGNESIUM is unlikely be a 'magic bullet' regards treating ANXIETY but can most certainly be a highly useful adjunct, through its mechanism of action as an NMDA RECEPTOR ANTAGONIST

[medievil]

Amphetamine ftwi

[Ampa-omega]

this is just something i wanted to share for you that are suffering from anxiety,
i think the other aspects of anxiety should be addressed as well.

:meditation, it may teach you to calm yourself down, breath slower and control and relax your heart rate.
:pain- inflammation, if you have this issue you need to address any chronic pains, naltrexone may help and antiinflammatories
:hobbies. methods to get your mind a chance to relax and give yourself some time to enjoy life
:calm music, music that relaxes you, slower melodies, and bineural beats/isochronic tones
: think about a nice place, things that make your happier
:problems solving, solve your issues, solve and remove the problem, focus on solving the problem
:look into psychology and behavior articles that you can read online to help your mindset
: addictive coping mechanisms and OCDs, this can be part of an anxiety and it is an important problem that needs solving.
: sleep, obviously, try to maintain a consistent sleep pattern for your lifestyle
: delusions, be reasonable, but not delusional, many things we do to cope can become addictions, or cause anxiety problems, use wisdom.
: priority, focus on important things, save unimportant things for later
: Regarding addiction or personal problems. have continual hope and strength, do not give up, seek answers. work on a consistent basis to solve your problems and anxieties step by step.

Edited by Ampa-omega, 05 March 2012 - 03:19 AM.

[khemix]

Amphetamine ftwi

No way, amphetamines exacerbate anxiety especially the adderall.

I just took 0.5mg clonazepam because I need to be up early tomorrow. I feel so relaxed, sitting here smiling, and I feel the world is a beautiful place. This blows theanine and taurine out of the water as far as effects are concerned. It's a shame it isn't sustainable though :(

[Nootr]

I had the same effect from phenibut like you from clonazepam. And no withdrawal effect from phenibut unlike from clonazepam.

I eventually have found out that it is unbelievable but all anxiolitics lower blood pressure and that means that people with hypotension like myself will have negative side effects from them like weakness which in its turn increases anxiety again. It seems that some people are doomed to have bad mood till their death because the modern science cannot even give the answer what is the cause of hypotension and how to treat it. There are numerous drugs against hypertension but almost no drugs against hypotension. The sad thing is that if i take drugs like ginseng or eleuterakok which are supposed to increase blood pressure i have disgusting tension in heart and even explosion-like feelings in heart. So that means that my organism does not like normal blood pressure and it needs only hypotension. It is very strange and I am sure all people with hypotension experience the same. So stimulants like ginseng or caffeine can be taken only in small doses which are not enough to increase the blood pressure to feel energetic and alert. If you increase the dose you start to feel even worse than prior to any taking of stimulants. Where is the way out? I still don't know. Probably I need large amounts of nootropics like noopept. There is such a disease called hypotensive type vegetovascular dysfunction and hypotension is somehow connected with nerves but I don't know in which way. Does anyone know how to treat it?

Edited by Dan Brown, 07 March 2012 - 03:17 PM.

[Steve_86]

Hi ScienceGuy,

First I would like to congratulate you on creating a truly fantastic thread.

I used to use a few too many substances which may have damaged my GABA receptors. I also carry the seemingly evil Apo-e4 gene which apparently predisposes me to a loss of GABAergic interneurons with age. I have become quite concerned about maintaining healthy GABA receptors.

Can you (or anyone else!) suggest a regime for repairing/increasing GABA receptors?

So far I am just taking Bacopa at night.

[Nootr]

Magnesium and TDCS are the impressive anxiolitics and probably the cheapest. In addition to making you calm they also make you more alert and feel healthy. They do not produce any sedative effect. Those with hypo-tension should take very low doses of magnesium to prevent lowering tension below their usual level. MB and eleuterakok help a bit to maintain tension on usual level. I take MB in the dose of 1 mg three times per day and several drops of eleuterakok in the morning with noopept. TDSC excites the zones of positive emotions in brain while inhibiting the zones with negative emotions. As a result you stop to have negative emotions as they become weak and not worth paying attention.
I made the TDCS device using 9v battery, two resistors, current regulator, beer can foil, sponges and circuit breaker. You can find the scheme in the tDCS thread and ask the author of the scheme.
No changes of perception with Mg and TDSC. I have not taken phenibut for several days and have not noticed any negative changes in my mood. It means that MG and TDSC work better and stronger. Magnesium should be taken in low doses several times per day instead of one large dose.
TDSC should be applied one time per 48 hours.

[wowser]

Magnesium and TDCS are the impressive anxiolitics and probably the cheapest. In addition to making you calm they also make you more alert and feel healthy. They do not produce any sedative effect. Those with hypo-tension should take very low doses of magnesium to prevent lowering tension below their usual level. MB and eleuterakok help a bit to maintain tension on usual level. I take MB in the dose of 1 mg three times per day and several drops of eleuterakok in the morning with noopept. TDSC excites the zones of positive emotions in brain while inhibiting the zones with negative emotions. As a result you stop to have negative emotions as they become weak and not worth paying attention.
I made the TDCS device using 9v battery, two resistors, current regulator, beer can foil, sponges and circuit breaker. You can find the scheme in the tDCS thread and ask the author of the scheme.
No changes of perception with Mg and TDSC. I have not taken phenibut for several days and have not noticed any negative changes in my mood. It means that MG and TDSC work better and stronger. Magnesium should be taken in low doses several times per day instead of one large dose.
TDSC should be applied one time per 48 hours.

TDCS... Mmmmmmm...

[medievil]

Amphetamine ftwi

No way, amphetamines exacerbate anxiety especially the adderall.

I just took 0.5mg clonazepam because I need to be up early tomorrow. I feel so relaxed, sitting here smiling, and I feel the world is a beautiful place. This blows theanine and taurine out of the water as far as effects are concerned. It's a shame it isn't sustainable though :(

It depe
nds wheter you suffer from AVPD or SA

[medievil]

Amphetamine ftwi

No way, amphetamines exacerbate anxiety especially the adderall.

I just took 0.5mg clonazepam because I need to be up early tomorrow. I feel so relaxed, sitting here smiling, and I feel the world is a beautiful place. This blows theanine and taurine out of the water as far as effects are concerned. It's a shame it isn't sustainable though :(

It ca

n be with mema

nti

ne witch i

nhibits tolera

nce a

nd withdrawal issues.

[ta5]

I was looking into Lemon Balm more, and found some troubling mentions of increased eye pressure and glaucoma risk. It can also block thyroid activity by blocking TSH receptors:
http://pmid.us/2985357

Glaucoma is also a risk of other GABA-T inhibitors like Vigabatrin and possibly Nardil.

[hooter]

If anyone has experiences with mixing piracetam and magnesium threonate, I'd be very interested.

Right now I'm having excellent results for anxiety with just piracetam, melatonin and BCAA.

Edited by hooter, 09 March 2012 - 11:08 PM.

[ta5]

Probiotics may impact GABA receptors:
http://blogs.discove...aviour-in-mice/


Proc Natl Acad Sci U S A. 2011 Sep 20;108(38):16050-5. Epub 2011 Aug 29.
Ingestion of Lactobacillus strain regulates emotional behavior and central GABA receptor expression in a mouse via the vagus nerve.
Bravo JA, Forsythe P, Chew MV, Escaravage E, Savignac HM, Dinan TG, Bienenstock J, Cryan JF.
Source
Laboratory of NeuroGastroenterology, Alimentary Pharmabiotic Centre, University College Cork, Cork, Ireland.
Abstract
There is increasing, but largely indirect, evidence pointing to an effect of commensal gut microbiota on the central nervous system (CNS). However, it is unknown whether lactic acid bacteria such as Lactobacillus rhamnosus could have a direct effect on neurotransmitter receptors in the CNS in normal, healthy animals. GABA is the main CNS inhibitory neurotransmitter and is significantly involved in regulating many physiological and psychological processes. Alterations in central GABA receptor expression are implicated in the pathogenesis of anxiety and depression, which are highly comorbid with functional bowel disorders. In this work, we show that chronic treatment with L. rhamnosus (JB-1) induced region-dependent alterations in GABA(B1b) mRNA in the brain with increases in cortical regions (cingulate and prelimbic) and concomitant reductions in expression in the hippocampus, amygdala, and locus coeruleus, in comparison with control-fed mice. In addition, L. rhamnosus (JB-1) reduced GABA(Aα2) mRNA expression in the prefrontal cortex and amygdala, but increased GABA(Aα2) in the hippocampus. Importantly, L. rhamnosus (JB-1) reduced stress-induced corticosterone and anxiety- and depression-related behavior. Moreover, the neurochemical and behavioral effects were not found in vagotomized mice, identifying the vagus as a major modulatory constitutive communication pathway between the bacteria exposed to the gut and the brain. Together, these findings highlight the important role of bacteria in the bidirectional communication of the gut-brain axis and suggest that certain organisms may prove to be useful therapeutic adjuncts in stress-related disorders such as anxiety and depression.
http://pmid.us/21876150

Edited by ta5, 11 March 2012 - 11:45 PM.

[hippocampus]

Should inositol be taken with food or on empty stomach? Does lithium interfere with inositol (i.e. is it ok to take them both - if you take inositol for OCD)?

[Nooby]

i want to mention that maybe cortisol inhibition/lowering could be another option for anti anxiety, at least something to look into.

YES, absolutely!

That is in fact one of RHOLIOLA ROSEA's ANXIOLYTIC mechanism's of action

The problem with other CORTISOL REDUCING substances, is their other physiological effects... take PHOSPHATIDYLSERINE (PS) for example, wherein you need to take 600+mg PS to experience CORTISOL REDUCING effects; the problem being that at that dosage many individuals will experience intolerable SIDE EFFECTS such as NAUSEA, STOMACH UPSET and INSOMNIA...

However, I am open to suggestions!

That's complete garbage. Cortisol is highly anxiolytic and this 'cortisol = stress so it must be bad' mentality is rather basic. If your body is short of cortisol you crumble under stress. What you want is something that modulates cortisol. Ashwagandha and rhodiola both do this, as does holy basil and other adaptogens.

Cortisol is not the bad guy. Having chronic high cortisol is simply an indication that you are under stress and your HPA is fucked.Lowering it might make you feel better for a bit but if you lower it to stupid levels you'll start feeling very anxious indeed, you won't be able to cope with anything.

Having a tank full of cortisol is very anxiolytic. Having cortisol spilling out left, right and centre, not so good. So essentially this defines whether you're under stress or not. Now that is basic science.

Edited by Nooby, 21 March 2012 - 06:22 PM.

[Geovicsha]

Hey ScienceGuy!

I've read accounts of DHEA, 5-HTP and L-Tyrosine being good for anxiety? Do you have much info on these? I didn't find these mentioned in the thread; sorry if I missed it.

[houdini]

What about Lysine and B-Complex?

[medievil]

Amphetamine ftwi

No way, amphetamines exacerbate anxiety especially the adderall.

I just took 0.5mg clonazepam because I need to be up early tomorrow. I feel so relaxed, sitting here smiling, and I feel the world is a beautiful place. This blows theanine and taurine out of the water as far as effects are concerned. It's a shame it isn't sustainable though :(

It ca

n be with mema

nti

ne witch i

nhibits tolera

nce a

nd withdrawal issues.

God atleast i dont have that weird typing issue here anymore.

What i said was that amphetamine with certain things like memantine and small regular breaks can be made sustainable; look up nmda antagonists and tolerance its been discussed on plenty of fora.

[Nootr]

5-htp is not good for treating anxiety. It gave me no effect at all! Useless wasting of money. Also causes sexual dysfunction.
L-theanine - weak effect even at large doses (I use it only to restore receptors from action of phenibut). The best effect if you take it on empty stomach 1 hour before meal and no earlier than 2 hours after meal.
Bacopa - weak anti-anxiety effect but has good influence on neurons of hippo-campus. If you take leaves you can have interesting dreams at night. If you take extract you do not have any vivid dreams. I suppose leaves have some additional useful substances for brain.
The main thing to fight the anxiety is to change own perception of things and chemical substances alone cannot help with this because they do not effect the brain structures and mechanisms of nervous system functioning. They do not change the behavior nor unblock energy sources in brain (these energy sources are like brain areas where images and thoughts are born). You brain produces negative or positive images or thoughts. Brain of some people tend to produce good ones, and of others - negative ones (which we call depression). Negative loop (feedback) is when you find yourself not able to stop thinking negatively. It turns into a negative monologue with yourself consisting of negative thoughts followed by negative emotions (bad hormones) which in their own turn cause new negative thoughts and once again. To stop the negative loop you should get to (reach) the certain zones of your brain and open the energy sources which mostly consists in experiencing supervivid images (hallucinations, image of God, out of body experience, etc.) That's why the best (effective) way to treat anxiety is taking psychedelic drugs like LSD (better under guidance of a therapist) which allow to see your own EGO and its constituent parts from outside and release negative gestalts through visualizing. Non-chemical ways of doing this is the use of tdcs and mental techniques like self-hypnosis, hemi-sync, esoteric techniques, lucid dreaming. Anxiety (depression) is caused not only by strong negative stress but also by routine way of life and inhibitory patterns of behavior like loneliness. Environment gives negative response to your negative state of mind. You should change the software (EGO) to change the image of reality (perception) and that can lead to complete refusal from chemical substances and much useless expenses involved in it.

Edited by Dan Brown, 06 May 2012 - 12:15 PM.