809 replies to this topic

[kevinseven11]

Did he almost die from gaba antagonist or from huffing dangerous chemicals?

[hooter]

Did he almost die from gaba antagonist or from huffing dangerous chemicals?

Don't worry, he wasn't huffing them. He was drinking them.

[elforn01]

After putting it on the backburner while I sat exams and moved house, I'm back to stack planning. My focus is on improving cognition, decreasing stress, and avoiding any of the nasties that people have said have the propensity to trigger an anxiety condition (!).

I'm trying to start a 'nootropic stack' to improve concentration during the stress of exams, and after reading your post I want to to avoid those that act on GABA and include a couple that help 'anxiety' because I figure they can't hurt an effort to fight exam stress.

My initial list was:
- Piracetam
- CDPCholine
- Either sulbutiamine or pyritinol
- Picamilon
- Aniracetam
- Lion's Mane
- PhosphatidylSerine
- Brahmi
- Stabilium (in substitute of Fish Oil)
- bacopa

After reading [ScienceGuy's initial] post the Picamilion will have to go (I'm guessing I'll just increase the dose of Pyritinol to get the B vitamin synergistic benefits).

Do any others in my list have the GABA complications referred to in your initial post?

I'd be really grateful any input anyone has - the last thing I want is to accidentally make exams more stressful by giving myself some sort of anxiety disorder...

Piracetam and other derivitaves will cause anxiety in the longterm, I know thats what I got from

Any idea what the derivatives are? I'll knock Piracetam off my list right now, it's not worth the risk, but I have no idea if the others are OK.

Any help whatsoever would be greatly appreciated.


Best,
Elf

Edited by elforn01, 22 December 2012 - 04:38 PM.

[kevinseven11]

Any racetam that releys on adrenal function to support memory. This post explains it. http://www.neurobrai...k-for-some.html

[Kain]

hello friends


I'm a post benzo withdrawal who suffer with many symptoms.

After I try some supplements, one of them really help with sex and libido symptom. It is a supplement contain with kaempferia, oyster, angelica sinensis, oligomeric proanthocyanidin and ginseng. But I felt that it may also rev up my muscle tension either, since I search an internet and found that some like angelica sinensis and ginseng are act on GABA receptors.

Now I use tizanidine to relieve muscle tension and it did help (50%), so I intend to try with this sex supplement again, but I also worry about muscle tension either.

- angelica sinensis and ginseng may be one that causes problems?

what do you think about this mess and weird relation problem?


Thank you and happy holidays

[brainslugged]

Thanks, science guy, for this thread. I just want to write out my own experiences with this stuff. Not really done in a scientific fashion, just anecdotal. I still haven't found something that really fixes me. Several of them are okay and make life more tolerable, but none of them have been the solution I am looking for.

Tried:

3) BACOPA MONNIERI - I noticed absolutely nothing at all (over long term trial of about 2 months).

4) RHODIOLA ROSEA - Mild stimulant effect, but nothing as far as anxiety

6) THEANINE -One of the best for anxiety, but have to use high dose of 400mg. Provides clear-headed feeling. Makes me feel very "chill". Tends to prevent panic. Generally makes me a bit less neurotic. However, does NOT increase sociability, and the feeling of anxiety specific to social anxiety is still present (keeps high social inhibition).

12) ANIRACETAM- Similar to theanine at 700mg. Planning on trying higher doses, but haven't gotten around to it. A little physical relaxation. Reduces neuroticism by a lot and increases enjoyment of environment. Less effective for panic but more effective for general feelings.

15) INOSITOL (MYO-INOSITOL)- I have a very bad reaction to this. I made a thread about it here. It caused many problems and made me into the exact kind of person that I hate, but it DID pretty much cure all the anxiety. I couldn't really enjoy the lack of anxiety, though, due to everything else. Personally, I plan to never touch the stuff again and would tell anyone I cared about to proceed with great caution. At least make sure you have someone monitoring you who can cut you off from it if you get out of control. I am fully back to baseline now, so if you want to take the plunge and try it, power to you, you will eventually return to normal, but be careful. (Note that I did not take it for the recommended 3-4 weeks. It was too much of a problem to continue. I only used it for about a week at a modest dose, but negative effects remained for over a month and a half.)

--) PIRACETAM (700mg-4.2g)- No anti-anxiety in any dose between these two. I have 700mg caps, and have tried in multiples of 1-6. No real difference, but I only did each dose for one day except for 4.2 which I did for about 5 days. 4.2 only made me sad/depressed, but it could have just been correlation because of the short trial. Regardless, there was no noticeable anti-anxiety effect.

Still to try:

1) GARUM ARMORICUM (brands: STABILIUM; ADAPTON)

2) MAGNESIUM

5) RELORA (MAGNOLIA OFFICINALIS and PHELLODENDRON AMURENSE) (Thank you to AMPA-OMEGA for mentioning this!)

7) LOW DOSE NALTREXONE (LDN)

8) AFOBAZOLE

9) TIANEPTINE

10) ESCITALOPRAM

11) PIRACETAM (at 9.8 - 24g total daily dosage)

13) PROPRANOLOL

14) CLONIDINE (Thanks goes to STEVE_86 for mentioning this!)

Edited by brainslug, 24 December 2012 - 02:13 AM.

[hooter]

MAGNOLIA OFFICINALIS - Both Honokiol and Magnolol have been implicated in increasing the binding of ligands to GABA_A receptors when in GABA-benzodiazepine receptor complexes, increasing the effects of GABA_A ligands and sedative effects

The GABA interaction is as bit worrying. But Phellodendron amurense seems very promising because it affects sigma receptors.

[Dinvestor]

Hi Everyone:

Just joined the forum and have been fascinated with the depth of research and knowledge on this thread!

My question is about phenytoin. I know the purported toxicity issues when used at it's recommended dosages for seizure control. But, I'm sure some of you have read Dreyfus' account of how low dose PHT cured his problems and noted docs like Whitaker have recommended it for anxiety, etc (again at lower doses). I don't know if it's classified as a GABA agonist or not.

Maybe there's other threads about this, but just wondering if others have tried it and their experiences?

Also, if one wants to try Afobazole how can they go about finding it and ordering it since it's a russian drug?

Thx

[renfr]

Seems like no one ever mentioned this but I just discovered that Ginkgo biloba is a GABA-A antagonist.
I took two 120mg tablets (50:1 extract) 30 mins before sleeping and I had an hard time sleeping.
Also I only slept 5 hours and felt totally rested while normally I need 7 hours.
I was wondering why so I looked up on the web and this is what I found : http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/14504293

Both ginkgolides and bilobalide inhibit GABA(A) receptors, with bilobalide demonstrating a more potent effect.
a striking similarity between ginkgolides and picrotoxinin, a GABA(A) and recombinant glycine alpha-homomeric receptor antagonist.

In a typical 50:1 extract there are 6% of terpene lactones.
The effect was to me quite as strong as pyritinol just for two tablets and was enough to delay and shorten my sleep.
That could be a good idea for those who want to reset their receptors after withdrawal from a GABA-A agonist.

[Hip]

I completely beat the severe anxiety disorder I had, using mostly natural supplements. My anxiety was intense and hellish, so bad that it often bordered on psychosis. This mental hell went on unabated for several years. You don't know the meaning of the phrase "living hell" until you have had severe generalized anxiety disorder.

Finally, through much trial and error, and reading up on the neuroscience of anxiety disorder, I figured out what drugs and supplements could cure my anxiety disorder.

Please see my 3 threads on curing anxiety disorder:

Completely eliminated my severe anxiety symptoms with three supplements!

Non-Standard Anti-Anxiety Treatment

Anxiety, Ammonia, and the NMDA Receptor

Abnormal brain chemistry is the underlying reason for anxiety disorder. Once you have this abnormal brain chemistry, events in your life can exacerbate the anxiety. In other words, if you you brain has biochemically become prone to anxiety, things that would normally be be fine now seem stressful.

The abnormal brain chemistry itself may be triggered by brain inflammation; this brain inflammation in turn may be due to infection. The infection does not necessarily have to be in the brain; it can be elsewhere in the body (eg: in the intestines), and cytokines or pro-inflammatory toxins like LPS from the infection site can travel to the brain and cause inflammation in the brain, thereby leading to the abnormal brain chemistry that can underpin anxiety.

So much of my approach to treating anxiety symptoms was to address the underlying inflammation in the body, especially in the gut.

[Guardian4981]

I recently tried Bacopa, first day or two felt relaxed but third day had virtigo a couple times and had to stop.

[Dinvestor]

Curious if anyone has tried Tenoten out of Russia. I've read some interesting articles about it, but haven't been able to find if anyone has tried it.

[kevinseven11]

Has anyone tried other gaba subunit antagonists besides gaba a? I dont recommend because i think they are bad for memory( gaba a transmission is good from what ive read)

[renfr]

Has anyone tried other gaba subunit antagonists besides gaba a? I dont recommend because i think they are bad for memory( gaba a transmission is good from what ive read)

I had a very good experience with mild GABA antagonists (ginkgo biloba and pyritinol). I feel less sleepless, more alert, I can read and process information much faster and I am much more motivated.
However caffeine is out of question for me, while it is a GABA antagonist, it's side effects are not tolerable at all (insomnia, racing heart, high blood pressure, hyperglycemia, acidosis, ...).

[renfr]

Drugs that cause GABA upregulation through a compensatory mechanism :
- Ginkgo biloba (from its terpenes)
- Afobazole
- Pyritinol
- Bacopa

Edited by renfr, 15 January 2013 - 01:18 AM.

[kevinseven11]

Bacopa upregulation is supposedly from interacting with serotonin receptors. Very interesting since just like kava, it releases gaba.

[Adaptogen]

Does anyone know anything about capsaicin for treating anxiety?

I have a bag of dried ghost chilies that i need to find a use for

[Adaptogen]

has anyone been able to actually cure their anxiety through cognitive reprogramming, meditation, therapy, or short term use of herbs or beta blockers?

"emotions associated with a fearful memory can be erased by treatment with propranolol before remembering the event, and the erasure is permanent."
does anyone have an experience that agrees with this?

[formergenius]

has anyone been able to actually cure their anxiety through cognitive reprogramming, meditation, therapy, or short term use of herbs or beta blockers?

"emotions associated with a fearful memory can be erased by treatment with propranolol before remembering the event, and the erasure is permanent."
does anyone have an experience that agrees with this?

I had succesfully abolished my anxiety by means of meditation, excercise and socializing, before some things happened that made me question my sanity. But I definitely became a relaxed, confident, sociable person because of it.
I don't know about propranolol, but check this thread on Metyrapone.

[Sam375]

Any recommendation about St John's wort ? Does it work ?

[protoject]

Any recommendation about St John's wort ? Does it work ?

hi Sam,
I tried St John's Wort for a long period of time, and I have to say in the end of the day it worsened my anxiety and budged an underlying psychosis.

I guess what's important to note about St John's Wort is that it does have SSRI activity and is also an MAO inhibitor... but more importantly it seems to upregulate certain serotonin receptors.

I've decided after much experience, that I don't necessarily want to upregulate these, or maybe not any receptor, until I know WTF I am doing.. unless it's mostly proven harmless. When you take these drugs long term it essentially morphs the physical structure of your brain IMO .. I'm not sure if you can take that literally, but figuratively it does seem to cause long-lasting changes even after stopping the herb.

I don't nececssarily think upregulating serotonin receptors is a good idea for myself, but I think it will depend on individual biochemistry and your health history.... and the way you react to your medicines...


This jury member says... NO to St Johns Wort

Edited by protoject, 17 February 2013 - 09:53 PM.

[Sam375]

Any recommendation about St John's wort ? Does it work ?

hi Sam,
I tried St John's Wort for a long period of time, and I have to say in the end of the day it worsened my anxiety and budged an underlying psychosis.

I guess what's important to note about St John's Wort is that it does have SSRI activity and is also an MAO inhibitor... but more importantly it seems to upregulate certain serotonin receptors.

I've decided after much experience, that I don't necessarily want to upregulate these, or maybe not any receptor, until I know WTF I am doing.. unless it's mostly proven harmless. When you take these drugs long term it essentially morphs the physical structure of your brain IMO .. I'm not sure if you can take that literally, but figuratively it does seem to cause long-lasting changes even after stopping the herb.

I don't nececssarily think upregulating serotonin receptors is a good idea for myself, but I think it will depend on individual biochemistry and your health history.... and the way you react to your medicines...


This jury member says... NO to St Johns Wort

Hi,

I tried inositol, 5HTP and ashwagandha so far and no effect beside nausea...

The only effective supplement I tried seems to be magnesium. I started garum armoricum after reading this thread, I ll give it some weeks to prove itself.

Ordered Bacopa too.


So far I am disappointed, total waste of time money and money. I think most of those supplements are placebos.

[protoject]

Any recommendation about St John's wort ? Does it work ?

hi Sam,
I tried St John's Wort for a long period of time, and I have to say in the end of the day it worsened my anxiety and budged an underlying psychosis.

I guess what's important to note about St John's Wort is that it does have SSRI activity and is also an MAO inhibitor... but more importantly it seems to upregulate certain serotonin receptors.

I've decided after much experience, that I don't necessarily want to upregulate these, or maybe not any receptor, until I know WTF I am doing.. unless it's mostly proven harmless. When you take these drugs long term it essentially morphs the physical structure of your brain IMO .. I'm not sure if you can take that literally, but figuratively it does seem to cause long-lasting changes even after stopping the herb.

I don't nececssarily think upregulating serotonin receptors is a good idea for myself, but I think it will depend on individual biochemistry and your health history.... and the way you react to your medicines...


This jury member says... NO to St Johns Wort

Hi,

I tried inositol, 5HTP and ashwagandha so far and no effect beside nausea...

The only effective supplement I tried seems to be magnesium. I started garum armoricum after reading this thread, I ll give it some weeks to prove itself.

Ordered Bacopa too.


So far I am disappointed, total waste of time money and money. I think most of those supplements are placebos.

Don't worry I think you will find something. I personally have felt the same, I've wasted a lot of money and time trying things [years and years, and thousands of dollars]. But in the end of the day you might end up finding something that works for you. Surprisingly I have finally found a mixture of herbs that help [for real, not placebo. I'm not very prone to subjective changes but these ones are pretty obvious for me]. And honestly , these were herbs that I never thought would help me at all [Ashwaghanda, Magnolia, and holy basil], because of all the past failures with almost every other supplement, herb and drug i've taken.. whether the failure has meant that the substance has done nothing for me or that it has caused more problems than what I started with.

I think Bacopa is a very effective herb as well. But I have noticed the longer you take it the stronger it effects you. Again this will vary from person to person though. Some people report that bacopa makes them incredibly drowsy. For me bacopa doesn't make me drowsy if I take double what everyone else takes, that's because I'm particularly not prone to drowsiness or sleep. Personally I am not sure if I want to continue bacopa or not just because it seems to have its upsides and its downsides and I'm not sure I like everything. But I can remark that I find bacopa has a mind sharpening effect and abates a lot of cognitive defects while perhaps raising the mood as well. So I hope it works for you.

Dont be scared to try different brands as well if it doesn't burn the hole too deeply in your pocket. Sometimes it's about quality , dosage, or ratio of active constituents i.e. in an extract.

[Sam375]

Any recommendation about St John's wort ? Does it work ?

hi Sam,
I tried St John's Wort for a long period of time, and I have to say in the end of the day it worsened my anxiety and budged an underlying psychosis.

I guess what's important to note about St John's Wort is that it does have SSRI activity and is also an MAO inhibitor... but more importantly it seems to upregulate certain serotonin receptors.

I've decided after much experience, that I don't necessarily want to upregulate these, or maybe not any receptor, until I know WTF I am doing.. unless it's mostly proven harmless. When you take these drugs long term it essentially morphs the physical structure of your brain IMO .. I'm not sure if you can take that literally, but figuratively it does seem to cause long-lasting changes even after stopping the herb.

I don't nececssarily think upregulating serotonin receptors is a good idea for myself, but I think it will depend on individual biochemistry and your health history.... and the way you react to your medicines...


This jury member says... NO to St Johns Wort

Hi,

I tried inositol, 5HTP and ashwagandha so far and no effect beside nausea...

The only effective supplement I tried seems to be magnesium. I started garum armoricum after reading this thread, I ll give it some weeks to prove itself.

Ordered Bacopa too.


So far I am disappointed, total waste of time money and money. I think most of those supplements are placebos.

Don't worry I think you will find something. I personally have felt the same, I've wasted a lot of money and time trying things [years and years, and thousands of dollars]. But in the end of the day you might end up finding something that works for you. Surprisingly I have finally found a mixture of herbs that help [for real, not placebo. I'm not very prone to subjective changes but these ones are pretty obvious for me]. And honestly , these were herbs that I never thought would help me at all [Ashwaghanda, Magnolia, and holy basil], because of all the past failures with almost every other supplement, herb and drug i've taken.. whether the failure has meant that the substance has done nothing for me or that it has caused more problems than what I started with.

I think Bacopa is a very effective herb as well. But I have noticed the longer you take it the stronger it effects you. Again this will vary from person to person though. Some people report that bacopa makes them incredibly drowsy. For me bacopa doesn't make me drowsy if I take double what everyone else takes, that's because I'm particularly not prone to drowsiness or sleep. Personally I am not sure if I want to continue bacopa or not just because it seems to have its upsides and its downsides and I'm not sure I like everything. But I can remark that I find bacopa has a mind sharpening effect and abates a lot of cognitive defects while perhaps raising the mood as well. So I hope it works for you.

Dont be scared to try different brands as well if it doesn't burn the hole too deeply in your pocket. Sometimes it's about quality , dosage, or ratio of active constituents i.e. in an extract.

Yes I will keep trying things

I gave up on ashwagandha after reading this thread.

Just received my Bacopa from mind nutrition, Took it 2 hours ago and feel pretty good right now but a bit too soon to tell, I ll wait to be in stressful situations to see if it really works.

[triffid113]

Does anyone know anything about capsaicin for treating anxiety?

I have a bag of dried ghost chilies that i need to find a use for

Capsaicin treats migraine.

[triffid113]

This thread is full of annoyingly long posts (especially by science guy actually). So I don't know if this has been covered, but I completely fixed my continual anxiety/panic with DHEA. Fixed it in 15 minutes. Also fixed my stage 3 hypertension. I am CBS +/+ and one of the ways I know the DHEA helps me is by making testosterone which modifies CBS gene expression. I take 75mg DHEA/day plus 30mg pregnenolone (so I can make progesterone, to help prevent cancer).

Edited by triffid113, 21 February 2013 - 05:39 PM.

[Mike C]

I did not have a good experience with Bacopa. 500mg daily Bacopa Gold. Felt sick whole time on it after taking it 3 days. forced myself to stay on it for 5 weeks. Felt totally better when I got off-within 2 days.

I did not have a good experience with Bacopa. 500mg daily Bacopa Gold. Felt sick whole time on it after taking it 3 days. forced myself to stay on it for 5 weeks. Felt totally better when I got off-within 2 days.

[hooter]

When I tried theanine it made me irrationally angry. Positively furious. Like, punching a stranger in the face for chewing too loudly. I was breaking shit, throwing objects against walls, etc. I've never acted like this even on adderall or alcohol, so I don't know what that is supposed to be? I'm 100% sure it's theanine because I was dumb enough to try this a second time, thankfully with a lower dosage.

On a more positive note:

A great anxiety and general longevity tonic is CORDYCEPS SINESIS CS-4 EXTRACT. I personally get most of my anxiety relief from combining 2x 1g cordyceps with 2x 600mg of piracetam.

I also take vitamin D and B complex, but their effects are not immediately noticeable like cordyceps and piracetam.

Cordyceps really takes the 'edge' off piracetam, which I hope many on longevity will understand. However, non CS-4 formulations are utterly useless and avoid all and any Chinese vendors for this product. I get mine from Vitalabo, so if you live in Europe that may be an option.

Edited by hooter, 25 February 2013 - 01:29 AM.

[kevinseven11]

Cordyceps is an indirect gaba positive allorestic modulator. It is essientially HCG. Though testosterone does up regulate one gaba subunit. http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/10327197

[Luminosity]

Emotions are part of life.

Consider talk therapy. PsychologyToday.org has detailed listings of therapists, their creditials, what problems they treat, the kinds of people they want to work with, their rates, and what insurances they accept. Their areas of expertise are probably self-reported, so take that with a grain of salt. I know this site covers to the US. Don't know if it covers other countries.

Another resource is the the self-expression threads I created here.

http://www.longecity...-these-self-expression-threads/

Some people call crisis/support lines when appropriate.

The Samaritans/Befrienders have these in the US, England and Australia. Possibly other places. The ones in the US aren't exclusively for acute crises. In England they also have an email service, but unless things have changed, it sucks.

In the US you could also call the 800 number for Contact Lifeline. They are also not exclusively for acute crises.

In the US, there is also the Listening Ear located in Michigan. They are more for a crisis.

Edited by Luminosity, 25 February 2013 - 04:09 AM.