809 replies to this topic

[AVerwest]

Before I start with it, I'm really wondering which other product I could take during the withdrawal process to ease the anxiety so I'm very curious about all the products suggested in this thread. He suggested Gingko Biloba, omega 3 fatty acids and even Chamomile tea (which is in red list in this thread) so, yeah, some doubts before I start with this...

Oxcarbazepine, nebivolol, l-theanine, and magnesium malate. The latter two require rather frequent, large doses. I prefer nebivolol, although propranolol is more commonly used. I'd avoid ginkgo and high EPA fish oil as both increased my anxiety.

You are right in the sense that diazepam definitely has a longer life than the XR version of Xanax, that's for sure! I guess if things don't go well, I will try to go through that path and risk doing the switch!

For how long were you on Xanax and what was your dosage? I'm also curious to know if you started your tapering off while still dealing with high anxiety and panic attacks... that is definitely my case at the moment, but I really just want to get off the benzo and feel like it's the right move at the moment to be honest. It's been a while.

I'm not familiar with Oxcarbazepine, Nebivolol and Propanolol so I am not sure If I could be able to get a hand on those to be honest... seems like they won't be at my reach, plus I would need a prescription of course I assume.

I'm trying Magnesium Glycinate Chelate, is it as good as Malate? Thanks for the info regarding L-Theanine, nice to know it does work! I can and most likely will give it a shot too.

I found a product that contains Magnesium, GABA, L-Theanine,Taurine and Holy Basil leaf all in one. Wonder if that could be helpful in this situation with the added products.

Edited by AVerwest, 29 November 2013 - 04:07 AM.

[KimberCT]

Yeah, tapered off while still having anxiety/panic. My dosage was also 1mg, but in divided doses throughout the day. Switching over to diazepam was seamless.

Magnesium glycinate should be OK too. You'll want to get bulk l-theanine powder. I was taking 500mg a few times a day. Capsules would be quite expensive.

I forgot about kava kava. Definitely takes the anxiety away. Don't overdo it though, or you'll wake up with a hangover worse than booze minus the headache.

Another I forgot would be picamilon, also available in bulk.

Taurine and GABA did nothing. Taurine may be counterproductive if taken chronically.

Are you on a SSRI yet? If I had known better, I would have gotten on sertraline before starting my taper.

[AVerwest]

Thanks for the info again! Will look into everything you've mentioned, hopefully most is available here.

Not on an SSRI, just Xanax XR at the moment.

[AVerwest]

Yeah, tapered off while still having anxiety/panic. My dosage was also 1mg, but in divided doses throughout the day. Switching over to diazepam was seamless.

Magnesium glycinate should be OK too. You'll want to get bulk l-theanine powder. I was taking 500mg a few times a day. Capsules would be quite expensive.

I forgot about kava kava. Definitely takes the anxiety away. Don't overdo it though, or you'll wake up with a hangover worse than booze minus the headache.

Another I forgot would be picamilon, also available in bulk.

Taurine and GABA did nothing. Taurine may be counterproductive if taken chronically.

Are you on a SSRI yet? If I had known better, I would have gotten on sertraline before starting my taper.

By the way man, what's your current supplement intake for your anxiety/PAs now after your taper off process? Are you feeling much better?

[vtrader]

I know some of you guys do not like what I have said but as I have stated before accepting and letting the anxiety runs it course works.
I was on the train and started having a panic attack because I was running rate, I had all the symptoms, felt like I was going to faint, through up, piss myself, chest becoming tighter and heart beating harder, but I then just said fuck it, if I want to have a anxiety attack lets do this, COME ON BRING IT ON. By surrendering to it and accepting what it is within a few moments this energy turned around, instead I began to feel more energetic, I felt less inhibited, I felt a sudden urge to become extrovert and wanting to socialise with the people in the train, I became more motivated to do something, a big smile ran across my face. Don't wish it to go away let the energy turn in to something more useful.

[Sciencyst]

It should be noted that Ginkgo biloba acts as a GABA ANTAGONIST (among other things) , the opposite of benzodiazepines. Chronic administration could theoretically up regulate GABA-Rs, but it has no place in benzo withdrawal.

[Sciencyst]

I know some of you guys do not like what I have said but as I have stated before accepting and letting the anxiety runs it course works.
I was on the train and started having a panic attack because I was running rate, I had all the symptoms, felt like I was going to faint, through up, piss myself, chest becoming tighter and heart beating harder, but I then just said fuck it, if I want to have a anxiety attack lets do this, COME ON BRING IT ON. By surrendering to it and accepting what it is within a few moments this energy turned around, instead I began to feel more energetic, I felt less inhibited, I felt a sudden urge to become extrovert and wanting to socialise with the people in the train, I became more motivated to do something, a big smile ran across my face. Don't wish it to go away let the energy turn in to something more useful.

yes this is by far the best way to relieve anxiety, but also the most difficult. I often wonder if I'm just potentiating my anxiety by using pharmaceutical agents as a temporary escape. Your example greatly supports CBT (if done right) and certain self help tapes like the Linden Method. I believe in the linden method he says to challenge the anxiety, let it do it's worse, and you will see how truly powerless it is.

Edited by katuskoti, 02 December 2013 - 01:38 AM.

[Fletch]

@ OP,

This may seem like a basic question because it is: I understand the concern for GABA receptor down-regulation. Why is there not a concern for NMDA receptor upregulation when using an antagonist daily though (e.g. magnesium)? I'm not suggesting that Mg is troublesome, but using it as an example for sake of discussion.

Another basic way of addressing this: Is it not true that anything that affects receptors, when taken chronically will result in the body compensating eventually via feedback mechanisms? For example SSRIs "stop working" for people. Won't the body always attempt a return to homeostasis where substances will cause receptor changes and/or lose effectiveness? Following this very simple logic, and assuming it's correct(?)... would it not be depressingly clear to conclude that there is NO EVERYDAY LONGTERM supplement- save minerals like Mg which the body needs, that can be taken for anxiety (or anything else for that matter). People are constantly switching AD's it seems after one "stops working". Surely there are repercussions to taking the substances you suggested chronically, just as there are with GABA agonists- although different flavored, no?

[nowayout]

@ OP,

This may seem like a basic question because it is: I understand the concern for GABA receptor down-regulation. Why is there not a concern for NMDA receptor upregulation when using an antagonist daily though (e.g. magnesium)? I'm not suggesting that Mg is troublesome, but using it as an example for sake of discussion.

Another basic way of addressing this: Is it not true that anything that affects receptors, when taken chronically will result in the body compensating eventually via feedback mechanisms? For example SSRIs "stop working" for people. Won't the body always attempt a return to homeostasis where substances will cause receptor changes and/or lose effectiveness? Following this very simple logic, and assuming it's correct(?)... would it not be depressingly clear to conclude that there is NO EVERYDAY LONGTERM supplement- save minerals like Mg which the body needs, that can be taken for anxiety (or anything else for that matter). People are constantly switching AD's it seems after one "stops working". Surely there are repercussions to taking the substances you suggested chronically, just as there are with GABA agonists- although different flavored, no?

It makes sense generally, but some receptors have paradoxical behavior.

For example, 4HT-2C serotonin receptors will downregulate in certain situations in response to ANtagonists, which is counterintuitive. Also, I believe some androgen receptors will upregulate in response to androgens in certain situations, which is also counterintuitive.

[Sciencyst]

It makes sense generally, but some receptors have paradoxical behavior.

For example, 4HT-2C serotonin receptors will downregulate in certain situations in response to ANtagonists, which is counterintuitive. Also, I believe some androgen receptors will upregulate in response to androgens in certain situations, which is also counterintuitive.

Yep, I believe the same is the case with norepinephrine receptors. Norepinephrine and epinephrine have very odd receptor behaviour compared to monoamines.

I am curious if it is possible to permanently alter one's neurochemistry as to better cope with anxiety through chronic administration of say, a GABA antagonist, like flumazenil, so that GABA receptors would upregulate. Of course Ive never heard of a beneficial withdrawal or tolerance, although I've heard the idea brought up before.. So I have no idea if it would work, especially due to the phenomena of behavioural sensitization..

Edited by katuskoti, 12 December 2013 - 01:44 AM.

[Nobility]

amazing topic, thank you.

Which would be the most effective and safest for treating a sudden on set of anxiety caused by Stimulants/sleep deprivation

Which?:
something that does NOT require a prescription. You can just go into the health food store/pharmacy and 80%-100% of the stores will have it.

Thank You.

[Galaxyshock]

amazing topic, thank you.

Which would be the most effective and safest for treating a sudden on set of anxiety caused by Stimulants/sleep deprivation

Which?:
something that does NOT require a prescription. You can just go into the health food store/pharmacy and 80%-100% of the stores will have it.

Thank You.

Chamomile tea, 2-3 bags, is my favourite easy-to-get

[Reformed-Redan]

Of the SSRI's, your best bet would be Zoloft IMHO. It's cheap and targets most 5HT receptors. I'm at 100mg and don't really notice any negative effects. The modest DRI effects are pleasant.

[lourdaud]

Of the SSRI's, your best bet would be Zoloft IMHO. It's cheap and targets most 5HT receptors. I'm at 100mg and don't really notice any negative effects. The modest DRI effects are pleasant.

Why are you on such a high dose? You didn't get a satisfying effect from a lower dose?
Personally I'm not so sure serotonin is very good for you. Stay away from SSRI's if you want to be on the safe side I say.

[bzyb]

Hi new to the thread but its been helpful.I feel I have a lower baseline than the average person, and have some social anxiety especially if I have to speak in front of big groups of people I don’t know, or occasional anxiety other times. Everybody's brain chemistry's different, so got to see what works for you. I know healthy lifestyle is best, but when life's really busy like for me right now, sometimes need to lean on supplements for a bit. Here's a quick list of what I've taken and effects. Will update as I go along.

Stopped taking:
Most prescription drugs like Buspar (seemed to lower serotonin too much), benzos and ritalin (anxiety inducing), and not wanting to try ssris

Minimal effects:
L/Sun-Theanine (low and high dose)/Chamomile/Peppermint/GABA/L-Glutamine(more for irritibility though) but minimal enough effects I cant tell anything is happening.

Still Experimenting:
Bacopa.......works somewhat, but wondering if it speeds up heartbeat when taking with other supplements that ups serotonin, so will just use by itself
Magnesium/lysine
Aniracetam.......sometimes seems to work great other times not much at all or the effects too short-lived
Piracetam......(see aniracetam) x>1G although I dont feel comfortable taking high dosages yet
Kava...its a gaba agonist but still going to try and see if it works

What Somewhat Works or Working Right Now:
Propranolol...Does well to mitigate physical effects, but makes mind feel a bit tired and dull
Alcohol...Positives and negatives fairly obvious
Inositol...seems to work so far at least mildly but not an immediate effect
Ashwghanda....Out of the herbs, it seems to reduce anxiety the fastest which is good for me. Might be unsociable or too quiet on it sometimes. Gaba-Agonist or magic herb?
Zembrin/kanna.....Feel it does normalize serotonin and other levels, seems to work well. Only negatives so far is that it doesn't seem to last long, so must redose and that can be expensive.

Still Yet to Try:
Rhodiola/Tianeptine/Clonidine/Atenolol/Cannabinol/Modafinil/Sulbiatimine/Uridine

Question:
What does OP and everyone agree on Ashwghanda. Is it still okay to be used everyday or will tolerance definitely be reached and withdrawal effects happen? Anything natural like zembrin, but cheaper and lasts longer? Thinking might try artichoke extract, stimulants like modafinil, and things that up levels of dopamine (mucuna) or serotonin (tryptophan). Keep up the good work, hope we can find a stack that works.

[Fletch]

Question:
What does OP and everyone agree on Ashwghanda. Is it still okay to be used everyday or will tolerance definitely be reached and withdrawal effects happen? Anything natural like zembrin, but cheaper and lasts longer? Thinking might try artichoke extract, stimulants like modafinil, and things that up levels of dopamine (mucuna) or serotonin (tryptophan). Keep up the good work, hope we can find a stack that works.

Ashwagandha not only works via Gaba. Others have said it does but I haven't looked at any studies on it. It also works and an adrenal adaptogen, so it may not be "tolerance forming". I've taken it for long periods of time, but never payed attention to any kind of withdrawal effect or tolerance. The herb is just plain good for you.

I have an issue with proponents of the anti-gaba substances...

If Gaba plays a significant role in anxiety and maybe depression, to say that you should not touch Gaba substances isn't much or a solution. People who oppose anything that affects Gaba are basically saying that the Gaba pathway should never be meddled with. I don't see what makes Gaba so special in this regard? Homeostasis comes in all different forms. I don't know how many times I've read someone say that an SSRI "stopped working for me". Down-regulation, tolerance, and homeostasis in general, don't strictly apply to Gaba. Yes the withdrawal from benzos and the like is hellish like you wouldn't believe. But so is chronic anxiety to the point that you can't function or feel like ending yourself.

[BlueCloud]

I have an issue with proponents of the anti-gaba substances...

If Gaba plays a significant role in anxiety and maybe depression, to say that you should not touch Gaba substances isn't much or a solution. People who oppose anything that affects Gaba are basically saying that the Gaba pathway should never be meddled with. I don't see what makes Gaba so special in this regard? Homeostasis comes in all different forms. I don't know how many times I've read someone say that an SSRI "stopped working for me". Down-regulation, tolerance, and homeostasis in general, don't strictly apply to Gaba. Yes the withdrawal from benzos and the like is hellish like you wouldn't believe. But so is chronic anxiety to the point that you can't function or feel like ending yourself.

You're right, I think this thread's original post has created a lot of misunderstanding unfortunately. It's not that you should avoid any Gaba substances, it's just that you should make sure to cycle them on a regular basis , and not take them every day of the year non-stop. That's all. It's been said actually in the original post, but maybe not emphasized enough. ( somethings like Phenibut or Benzos should be avoided as much as possible unless you have no other choices or you're really sure you're not going to take them on a daily basis)

Edited by BlueCloud, 10 January 2014 - 09:17 AM.

[hooter]

Add Kratom to opiod anxiogens. It has an emotionally taxing withdrawal.... I'd also like to again voice a +1 for Stablon (tianeptine) and Cerebrolysin.

Edited by hooter, 13 January 2014 - 12:00 PM.

[Nobility]

Hi,

Does anyone know of any OTC/Herbal/Legal supplements,products,etc that could:

- Possibility to low the heart rate and maybe the blood pressure. (If not; then must not increase heart rate and that related)
- Not cause any more "Stimulation"
- To calm and relax.(NOT in any euphoric way. ) If the drug can induce some tiny tiny Euphoria that is fine, but the point is that the use of the product is not for "effects" benefit.
- Help get to sleep/close eyes/etc.
- Help stop the high brain activity/worry/etc.
- To slow things down, BUT in the way from that happening it will result in a calmer mood.

From where,etc?:
- Pharmacies
- Health food shops/
- Online
- Any shops,etc.
- Must not require prescription.


Cause:
Stimulant in the morning/low sleep = evening......


Thank You very much.

[Fletch]

i found this thread very interesting, at least to bring up some out of the box perspective on anti anxiety, it is kind of disheartening though that so many anti anxiety aids are not recommended, many that are very popular and have been used by many people, im a bit wary of the exotic recommendations though but i appreciate this thread.

Thank you for the feedback. That is partly my reason for posting the thread.

I have treated many people for ANXIETY for many years; and it is a key area regarding which the information on how best to safely and effectively treat it is sadly lacking and/or poorly understood.

The MISUSE / ABUSE of GABA RECEPTOR AGONISTS (and I am not just referring to BENZODIAZEPINES) is an EPIDEMIC that causes millions to suffer unecessarily

N.B. They DO have their uses; but should be treated with exactly the same respect as OPIOID RECEPTOR AGONISTS, and taken appropriately (i.e. restricted to short-term use (only) and CYCLED ON / OFF if wishing to use for the longer-term).

In particular, the physicians who hand out BENZODIAZEPINES sweets / candy should be lined up in front of a firing squad and shot...

How would you suggest one who is dependent on benzos daily for a long period of time to taper off without losing their job, or not being able to function in a normal expected level in society? I know that when I tapered slowly off of klonopin after years of daily use, it took me months and I couldn't leave the house to check the mail without panic! Then there were months afterward were I still had extreme, extreme anxiety. I had no job or obligations during that time, but I guarantee you I wouldn't have been able to work or do much else than go for walks around the neighborhood, and muster up the courage to go to a public place every now and then. Keep in mind I was also taking Nardil along with the klonopin, so that may have made my cessation of klonopin somewhat easier than it would have been.

In the U.S. it takes like 2 years to get approved for government disability after tons of hurdles, tons of paperwork, and at least one appeal considering almost all cases are rejected the first time. Even if one could support themselves financially during that period, what about the career/school, and social implications? Benzo withdrawal is crippling and all you can do really is barely make it trough one day at a time as it is, with no added stressors. Would you concede that for some people that have already become dependent on benzos, and perhaps some who find nothing else effective; the only way to function normally in society is to continue taking them? If not; what do you propose one do strategically in order to overcome these hurdles I've mentioned? Thanks in advance!

[sutur]

I just wanted to chime in with this brand new study, because oral lavender oil preparations haven't been mentioned here as a non-GABA treatment for GAD. Most of the reasearch behind it is young, but it seems very promising. If you can, read the whole paper - it gives a great overview.

Lavender oil preparation Silexan is effective in generalized anxiety disorder - a randomized, double-blind comparison to placebo and paroxetine.

Abstract
The anxiolytic efficacy of the orally administered lavender oil preparation Silexan was investigated in generalized anxiety disorder (GAD) in comparison to placebo and paroxetine. In this randomized, double-blind, double-dummy trial 539 adults with GAD according to DSM-5 criteria and a Hamilton Anxiety Scale (HAMA) total score &#10878;18 points participated and received 160 or 80 mg Silexan, 20 mg paroxetine, or placebo once daily for 10 wk. The primary efficacy endpoint was the HAMA total score reduction between baseline and treatment end. The HAMA total score decreased by 14.1 ± 9.3 points for Silexan 160 mg/d, 12.8 ± 8.7 points for Silexan 80 mg/d, 11.3 ± 8.0 points for paroxetine, and 9.5 ± 9.0 points for placebo (mean ± s.d.). Silexan 160 and 80 mg/d were superior to placebo in reducing the HAMA total score (p < 0.01) whereas paroxetine showed a trend towards significance (p = 0.10) in the full analysis set. The difference between paroxetine and placebo was more pronounced in the analysis of observed cases (HAMA total score reduction: p < 0.01). In the Silexan 160 mg/d group 73/121 patients (60.3%) showed a HAMA total score reduction &#10878;50% of the baseline value and 56 (46.3%) had a total score <10 points at treatment end, compared to 70/135 (51.9%) and 45 (33.3%) forSilexan 80 mg/d, 57/132 (43.2%) and 45 (34.1%) for paroxetine, and 51/135 (37.8%) and 40 (29.6%) for placebo. In addition, Silexan showed a pronounced antidepressant effect and improved general mental health and health-related quality of life. Incidence densities of adverse events (AEs) were 0.006 AEs/d for Silexan 160 mg/d, 0.008 AEs/d for 80 mg/d, 0.011 AEs/d for paroxetine, and 0.008 AEs/d for placebo. In GAD Silexan is more efficacious than placebo. AE rates for Silexan were comparable to placebo and lower than for the active control paroxetine.

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/24456909

Edited by sutur, 06 February 2014 - 11:48 AM.

[Nobility]

some tips;

- avoid caffeine.
- get enough sleep. sleep makes a MAJOR difference, an insane difference. e.g; when I was getting only a couple of hours sleep a night (2-3 hours) I was loosing touch with reality and it felt so weird, I was unable to function and it was something stronger than anxiety you could say.

get enough sleep!!!

and eat.

one other thing; there's something got to do with the blood sugar or something.
e.g; about 3 times in total I found myself 2am in bed unable to get to sleep and I felt very very strange. I got up and ate some fruit and other food. I went back into bed and felt normal.

there's something related to the blood sugar or something, or it can get too low causing anxiety....
this can also be due maybe in some cases not eating ....

[pinnacle]

I wonder, what do people here think of bovine alpha s1-casein tryptic hydrolysate AKA Lactium?

This natural benzo-like peptide from milk sounds helpful if you were to use it occasionally for mild anxiety/stress.

I would be interested to know what ScienceGuy has to say about it... hint, hint.

Metagenics do a product called NuSera which contains this as it's only ingredient. With the tag line "Relief for Stressful Moments". Chocolate-flavoured, chewable treats. Nom, nom.

There was an interesting study done here comparing it's effects with Diazepam, yet without the same addictive qualities. Can download the full article for free if interested here.

[BlueCloud]

I wonder, what do people here think of bovine alpha s1-casein tryptic hydrolysate AKA Lactium?

This natural benzo-like peptide from milk sounds helpful if you were to use it occasionally for mild anxiety/stress.

I've tried it. it's as effective as drinking a glass of milk, wich is to say: none at all ( unless you have very very light anxiety, it may work then, but then again a warm bath would also be as effective).

[nowayout]

get enough sleep!!!

...which is often impossible due to anxiety - kind of a Catch-22.

[bzyb]

get enough sleep!!!

...which is often impossible due to anxiety - kind of a Catch-22.

exactly. A lot of this stuff is cyclical. For some reason I feel wide at wake in the wee hours of the morning and really tired in the mornings. I've been on both sides of the globe and for some reason I like to be awake at night and asleep during the day. Trying modafinil, CPAP, melatonin, music, tryptophan, nyquil and a bunch of different things now, but just saying trying to get enough sleep is sometimes not enough for people with some sort of imbalance. So its not easy for some to do things the normal way.

Anyway I'm still going down the list as far as supplements (which I've tried most, and many like aniracetam dont seem to work), and rhodiala is arriving tomorrow so hope that is as or more consistent than ashwagandha, etc.

Edited by bzyb, 18 February 2014 - 12:35 AM.

[magta39]

Could taking too many vitamins cause anxiety? We know that vitamin C is a COMT inhibitor and could theoretically cause anxiety in some people. Could too much B vitamins too? I have been an anti oxidant vitamin junkie for 35 years and have taken everything around at one time or another, but recent studies show that antioxidant vitamins can interfere with the beneficial adaptations of exercise such as improved blood pressure and insulin sensitivity, and exercise is supposed to be one of the best stress reducers around. http://www.pnas.org/...485106.abstract and another example study http://jp.physoc.org...0/5047.abstract After reading some of these studies I now take no antioxidant vitamins on exercise days, only minerals like magnesium, potassium, calcium. And now after exercising I am in a more calm relaxed state, and all facets of health are increasing again too, such as strength, etc. Just some food for thought.....

[nowayout]

Could taking too many vitamins cause anxiety? We know that vitamin C is a COMT inhibitor and could theoretically cause anxiety in some people. Could too much B vitamins too? I have been an anti oxidant vitamin junkie for 35 years and have taken everything around at one time or another, but recent studies show that antioxidant vitamins can interfere with the beneficial adaptations of exercise such as improved blood pressure and insulin sensitivity, and exercise is supposed to be one of the best stress reducers around. http://www.pnas.org/...485106.abstract and another example study http://jp.physoc.org...5047.abstract After reading some of these studies I now take no antioxidant vitamins on exercise days, only minerals like magnesium, potassium, calcium. And now after exercising I am in a more calm relaxed state, and all facets of health are increasing again too, such as strength, etc. Just some food for thought.....

High dose B vitamins give me anxiety.

[Sciencyst]

I also get anxious from high dose B vitamins

[DrSteveBrule]

Firstly, thank you to ScienceGuy and everyone participating in this thread. It's quite useful as a compendium of possible anxiolytics and studies on them.

That said, I do think there are some inconsistencies in ScienceGuy's reasoning and recommendations. The key issue I have is with the reasoning surrounding GABA levels. At no point that I can find does ScienceGuy explain why he believes that raising GABA levels is OK as a result of taking L-theanine, but potentially dangerous as a result of taking something like lemon balm or to be avoided entirely with picamilon:

On L-theanine:

THEANINE could be a highly useful ANXIOLYTIC, since it DOES NOT function as a GABA RECEPTOR AGONIST but UPREGULATES THE PRODUCTION OF GABA within the brain...

On lemon balm:

GABA TRANSAMINASE is an enzyme which breaks down GABA within the brain, and hence inhibition of this enzyme induces an INCREASE in GABA LEVELS, which with prolonged usage theoretically will induce a down-regulation of the GABA RECEPTORS.

He doesn't explain his objection to picamilon, but we must presume it would also raise GABA levels since it's basically GABA + niacin. Yes, there are differences in the mechanisms at work, but all three substances would seem to cause increases in GABA (as well many others listed as either "safe" or "dangerous"). The issue remains: why is increased GABA from L-theanine considered acceptable while simultaneously being unsafe from a compound that directly supplies GABA or reduces the enzymatic breakdown of GABA? If increased GABA causes down-regulation of GABA receptors, then it causes down-regulation of GABA receptors regardless of how that increased GABA came to exist.

Also, I would like to see more details on the reasoning behind GABA receptor agonists being placed on the naughty list. To me, it's insufficient to say that GABA receptor agonists exhibit benzodiazepine-like behavior and benzodiazepine usage can result in tolerance and withdrawal. How does agonizing GABA receptors cause a different net effect over time than increasing GABA levels (which is itself inconsistently judged, as I've noted)? Wouldn't both mechanisms result in GABA receptor down-regulation? I'm not necessarily arguing this point, but I would like to get more details on the science behind it. In short, "citation needed."

I feel like we're all pretty pleased with ourselves for citing actual research, but we're failing in establishing the basics of what exactly is potentially healthy (or not healthy) when it comes to manipulating neurotransmitter levels and receptor function.