809 replies to this topic

[BarrelBoy]

Aside from LLLT, lithium orotate, and eliminating caffeine, all of which have contributed subtle but welcome improvements to anxiety issues, my shotgun approach to increasing overall health has been the most profound.

 

Diet, sunlight, exercise, an array of supplements aimed at increasing health/longevity, cold showers, meditation, heavy metal chelation, and even an herbal parasite cleanse have all been part of my regimen, and while this approach makes it difficult to tell what's doing what, it's been wonderful feeling the changes taking place. I might get some flack for recommending sunlight, but since I've been supplementing with MSM and C60 it's very difficult for me to burn.

 

The next thing on my menu, since I feel like I've gained so much from daily meditation, is neurofeedback, specifically the TAGSync Protocol championed by Longecity's OpaqueMind. Here's his first thread on neurofeedback, great stuff - http://www.longecity...-neurofeedback/

 

From my experience and what I have noted from many peoples' anecdotal reports, it really doesn't seem like any one supplement or drug has been effective at treating anxiety, and if it has been then it doesn't last for long or eventually causes other unwanted issues. A holistic (nevermind the unscientific connotations) approach focused on your health in general is likely preferable for a majority of people. At the very least, you'll learn more about your body and will probably see benefits in other areas, if not anxiety/depression.

 

I think there's too much focus on attempting to treat symptoms instead of correcting the underlying issues that are actually responsible. It's also worth mentioning that situational factors can and do have massive effects on people and their brains/bodies/psychology, so for anyone tempted to think that it's solely their brain's fault for being out of whack I'd examine your environment more closely.

Edited by brokenyoga, 24 February 2015 - 06:45 AM.

[bichomalo]

Thanks for your good work and compilation

[jerzyroginski]

I am glad you posted this because I have been so much better after this diet and cleanse and especially meditation everyday, I am a new person and am mostly anxiety free its amazing!

People do not realize the importance of nutrition, a healthy digestive tract, and the power of the mind to heal its self through relaxation techniques and positive affirmations.

Aside from LLLT, lithium orotate, and eliminating caffeine, all of which have contributed subtle but welcome improvements to anxiety issues, my shotgun approach to increasing overall health has been the most profound.

 

Diet, sunlight, exercise, an array of supplements aimed at increasing health/longevity, cold showers, meditation, heavy metal chelation, and even an herbal parasite cleanse have all been part of my regimen, and while this approach makes it difficult to tell what's doing what, it's been wonderful feeling the changes taking place. I might get some flack for recommending sunlight, but since I've been supplementing with MSM and C60 it's very difficult for me to burn.

 

The next thing on my menu, since I feel like I've gained so much from daily meditation, is neurofeedback, specifically the TAGSync Protocol championed by Longecity's OpaqueMind. Here's his first thread on neurofeedback, great stuff - http://www.longecity...-neurofeedback/

 

From my experience and what I have noted from many peoples' anecdotal reports, it really doesn't seem like any one supplement or drug has been effective at treating anxiety, and if it has been then it doesn't last for long or eventually causes other unwanted issues. A holistic (nevermind the unscientific connotations) approach focused on your health in general is likely preferable for a majority of people. At the very least, you'll learn more about your body and will probably see benefits in other areas, if not anxiety/depression.

 

I think there's too much focus on attempting to treat symptoms instead of correcting the underlying issues that are actually responsible. It's also worth mentioning that situational factors can and do have massive effects on people and their brains/bodies/psychology, so for anyone tempted to think that it's solely their brain's fault for being out of whack I'd examine your environment more closely.

 

I am glad you posted this because I have been so much better after this diet and cleanse and especially meditation everyday, I am a new person and am mostly anxiety free its amazing!

People do not realize the importance of nutrition, a healthy digestive tract, and the power of the mind to heal its self through relaxation techniques and positive affirmations.

Aside from LLLT, lithium orotate, and eliminating caffeine, all of which have contributed subtle but welcome improvements to anxiety issues, my shotgun approach to increasing overall health has been the most profound.

 

Diet, sunlight, exercise, an array of supplements aimed at increasing health/longevity, cold showers, meditation, heavy metal chelation, and even an herbal parasite cleanse have all been part of my regimen, and while this approach makes it difficult to tell what's doing what, it's been wonderful feeling the changes taking place. I might get some flack for recommending sunlight, but since I've been supplementing with MSM and C60 it's very difficult for me to burn.

 

The next thing on my menu, since I feel like I've gained so much from daily meditation, is neurofeedback, specifically the TAGSync Protocol championed by Longecity's OpaqueMind. Here's his first thread on neurofeedback, great stuff - http://www.longecity...-neurofeedback/

 

From my experience and what I have noted from many peoples' anecdotal reports, it really doesn't seem like any one supplement or drug has been effective at treating anxiety, and if it has been then it doesn't last for long or eventually causes other unwanted issues. A holistic (nevermind the unscientific connotations) approach focused on your health in general is likely preferable for a majority of people. At the very least, you'll learn more about your body and will probably see benefits in other areas, if not anxiety/depression.

 

I think there's too much focus on attempting to treat symptoms instead of correcting the underlying issues that are actually responsible. It's also worth mentioning that situational factors can and do have massive effects on people and their brains/bodies/psychology, so for anyone tempted to think that it's solely their brain's fault for being out of whack I'd examine your environment more closely.

 

[jerzyroginski]

What exactly is this neurofeedback stuff, and how can I implement this into my regimen? Is it something you do under the care of a doctor?

Aside from LLLT, lithium orotate, and eliminating caffeine, all of which have contributed subtle but welcome improvements to anxiety issues, my shotgun approach to increasing overall health has been the most profound.

 

Diet, sunlight, exercise, an array of supplements aimed at increasing health/longevity, cold showers, meditation, heavy metal chelation, and even an herbal parasite cleanse have all been part of my regimen, and while this approach makes it difficult to tell what's doing what, it's been wonderful feeling the changes taking place. I might get some flack for recommending sunlight, but since I've been supplementing with MSM and C60 it's very difficult for me to burn.

 

The next thing on my menu, since I feel like I've gained so much from daily meditation, is neurofeedback, specifically the TAGSync Protocol championed by Longecity's OpaqueMind. Here's his first thread on neurofeedback, great stuff - http://www.longecity...-neurofeedback/

 

From my experience and what I have noted from many peoples' anecdotal reports, it really doesn't seem like any one supplement or drug has been effective at treating anxiety, and if it has been then it doesn't last for long or eventually causes other unwanted issues. A holistic (nevermind the unscientific connotations) approach focused on your health in general is likely preferable for a majority of people. At the very least, you'll learn more about your body and will probably see benefits in other areas, if not anxiety/depression.

 

I think there's too much focus on attempting to treat symptoms instead of correcting the underlying issues that are actually responsible. It's also worth mentioning that situational factors can and do have massive effects on people and their brains/bodies/psychology, so for anyone tempted to think that it's solely their brain's fault for being out of whack I'd examine your environment more closely.

 

[Reformed-Redan]

It hasn't been mentioned so I thought it's worth adding:

 

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/23348009

 

Background: The neurosteroid allopregnanolone is a potent allosteric modulator of the gamma-aminobutyric acid type A receptor with anxiolytic properties. Exogenous administration of allopregnanolone reduces anxiety, and allopregnanolone blockade impairs social and affective functioning. However, the neural mechanism whereby allopregnanolone improves mood and reduces anxiety is unknown. In particular, brain imaging has not been used to link neurosteroid effects to emotion regulation neurocircuitry.

METHODS:

To investigate the brain basis of allopregnanolone's impact on emotion regulation, participants were administered 400 mg of pregnenolone (n=16) or placebo (n=15) and underwent 3T functional magnetic resonance imaging while performing the shifted-attention emotion appraisal task, which probes emotional processing and regulation.

RESULTS:

Compared with placebo, allopregnanolone was associated with reduced activity in the amygdala and insula across all conditions. During the appraisal condition, allopregnanolone increased activity in the dorsal medial prefrontal cortex and enhanced connectivity between the amygdala and dorsal medial prefrontal cortex, an effect that was associated with reduced self-reported anxiety.

CONCLUSIONS:

These results demonstrate that in response to emotional stimuli, allopregnanolone reduces activity in regions associated with generation of negative emotion. Furthermore, allopregnanolone may enhance activity in regions linked to regulatory processes. Aberrant activity in these regions has been linked to anxiety psychopathology. These results thus provide initial neuroimaging evidence that allopregnanolone may be a target for pharmacologic intervention in the treatment of anxiety disorders and suggest potential future directions for research into neurosteroid effects on emotion regulation neurocircuitry.

[Fletch]

 

It hasn't been mentioned so I thought it's worth adding:

 

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/23348009

 

 

Background: The neurosteroid allopregnanolone is a potent allosteric modulator of the gamma-aminobutyric acid type A receptor with anxiolytic properties. Exogenous administration of allopregnanolone reduces anxiety, and allopregnanolone blockade impairs social and affective functioning. However, the neural mechanism whereby allopregnanolone improves mood and reduces anxiety is unknown. In particular, brain imaging has not been used to link neurosteroid effects to emotion regulation neurocircuitry.

METHODS:

To investigate the brain basis of allopregnanolone's impact on emotion regulation, participants were administered 400 mg of pregnenolone (n=16) or placebo (n=15) and underwent 3T functional magnetic resonance imaging while performing the shifted-attention emotion appraisal task, which probes emotional processing and regulation.

RESULTS:

Compared with placebo, allopregnanolone was associated with reduced activity in the amygdala and insula across all conditions. During the appraisal condition, allopregnanolone increased activity in the dorsal medial prefrontal cortex and enhanced connectivity between the amygdala and dorsal medial prefrontal cortex, an effect that was associated with reduced self-reported anxiety.

CONCLUSIONS:

These results demonstrate that in response to emotional stimuli, allopregnanolone reduces activity in regions associated with generation of negative emotion. Furthermore, allopregnanolone may enhance activity in regions linked to regulatory processes. Aberrant activity in these regions has been linked to anxiety psychopathology. These results thus provide initial neuroimaging evidence that allopregnanolone may be a target for pharmacologic intervention in the treatment of anxiety disorders and suggest potential future directions for research into neurosteroid effects on emotion regulation neurocircuitry.

 

 

Anyone who has taken finasteride for hair loss and has experienced side effects (or heard about them), this is why! 

 

finastering lowers 5aR which is responsible for proper conversion of allopregnanolone, which is a protective neurosteroid which acts acts on the GABA receptor. WHen peple report anxiety, depression, and "brain fog on finasteride this is precisely why. For this reason, in the past people have tried supplementing with pregnenolone to try and cobat this. This doesn't work because although the names are similar, pregnenolone is way up at the top of the chart on a hormone diagram. It is a master hormone which converts into dhea and cortisol. Allopregnanolone is much further down and results from the 5aR enzyme acting upon a hormone which is escaping memory right now. Someone was selling an allopregnanolone nasal spray which I purchased a while back. It was discusssed here. I believe it's a waste of money and you cann't easily or safely supplement on endogenous steroid like allopregnanolone though unfortunately. If you have normal 5aR levels then your levels should be fine anyway. If you added more, it would be like any other gaba agonist. Good find though.

 

[sensei]

FIRSTLY , Benzodiazepines, and some of the other "not to take" substances ARE ACTUALLY NOT GABA AGONISTS. They are POSITIVE ALLOSTERIC MODULATORS OF GABA, because they do not actually bind to the GABA site on the receptor complex.  It is interesting that true GABA AGONISTS such as GABA, PROGABIDE, GABADOXOL have not necessarily been shown to downregulate receptors.

 

SECONDLY,

 

Many substances that bind to a receptor complex are actually NOT AGONISTS OR PAMS. Rather they can be ANTAGONISTS, PARTIAL AGONISTS, INVERSE AGONISTS, or even a combination.  Many herbs contain multiple substances, THAT ALL HAVE DIFFERENT EFFECTS.

 

For example, it is now hypothesized that KAVA may actually be an antagonist or partial inverse agonist because of it's reverse tolerance profile, and that other constituents affect the gabaergic system through a non GABA enzymatic pathway.

 

"Scatchard analysis revealed that the observed effects of kavapyrones were due to an increase in the number of binding sites (Bmax), rather than to a change in affinity."

 

http://www.ncbi.nlm..../pubmed/7701051

 

 Kavalactones increase GABA receptor density in specific areas of rodent brain (especially hippocampus and amygdala) suggesting GABA-a receptor mediation of the sedative effects of kava,

 

(Holm E, et al. Arzneimittelforschung 1991 Jul;41(7):673-683.) 

 

In fact, yoga has been shown to increase GABA in the brain by 27% -- yet yoga practicioners are known for being calm and anxiety free -- wouldn't such a higher level of circulating GABA lead to long term downregulation and anxiety, IF GABA AGONISTS UNDOUBTEDLY DOWNREGULATE GABA RECEPTORS?

 

Thoughts?

[ToJump]

I don't want to be a dick, but I am skeptical towards OP's reasoning.

 

Just because GABA agonists can cause dependence, tolerance, etc. doesn't mean that using substances that affect other neurotransmitters are "magical". Anxiety doesn't get reduced out of thin air, something must happen in the brain ; Thus, I believe that all of OP's concerns can be applied to the other neurotransmitters.

 

 

Also, comparing chamomille or valerian to benzos is like comparing a go-kart with an F1 car...

[non-41]

 

 

 

 

I haven´t seen any evidence that suggest´s that M-B12 would be dangerous in higher dosages. That doesn´t mean that it isn´t dangerous. But I am thinking of keeping the mega dose on my long term stack because I have sensed some improvement. I hope that this doesn´t come and bite me in the ass though.

Excessive doses taken over long periods of time can cause nerve damage, numbness and dysfunctions in motor control... Be careful.

 

WHAT HE SAID

 

You must have B-12 confused with B-6. Totally different.

 

Not so

Excessive and/or long-term doses of VITAMIN B12 can cause the following SIDE EFFECTS:

HEADACHE, DIZZINESS, INSOMNIA, AGITATION, ANXIETY, PANIC ATTACKS, RESTLESSNESS, CARDIAC ARRHYTHMIA, ANGINA, TINGLING and NUMBNESS.

The SIDE EFFECTS profile for VITAMIN B12 is a U-SHAPED CURVE in that both TOO LITTLE and TOO MUCH induce similar SIDE EFFECTS

Furthermore, there is ever increasing substantiation that EXCESS VITAMIN B12 is CARCINOGENIC (i.e. CAUSES CANCER). For example, see the following:

Sem Hop. 1970 Jul 10;46(31):2170-4.

[Hazards of administering vitamin B12 to cancer patients].
[Article in French]

Chauvergne J, Hoerni B, Hugues A, Lagarde C, Le Treut A, Marée D, Touchard J.

PMID: 4318351

This study demonstrated that excessive B12 consumption encourages cell division in general and certain tumor cells in particular

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

JAMA. 2009 Nov 18;302(19):2119-26.

Cancer incidence and mortality after treatment with folic acid and vitamin B12.

Ebbing M, Bønaa KH, Nygård O, Arnesen E, Ueland PM, Nordrehaug JE, Rasmussen K, Njølstad I, Refsum H, Nilsen DW, Tverdal A, Meyer K, Vollset SE.

Source
Department of Heart Disease, Haukeland University Hospital, Jonas Liesvei 65, Bergen, Norway 5021. marta.ebbing@helse-bergen.no

Abstract

CONTEXT:
Recently, concern has been raised about the safety of folic acid, particularly in relation to cancer risk.

OBJECTIVE:
To evaluate effects of treatment with B vitamins on cancer outcomes and all-cause mortality in 2 randomized controlled trials.

DESIGN, SETTING, AND PARTICIPANTS:
Combined analysis and extended follow-up of participants from 2 randomized, double-blind, placebo-controlled clinical trials (Norwegian Vitamin Trial and Western Norway B Vitamin Intervention Trial). A total of 6837 patients with ischemic heart disease were treated with B vitamins or placebo between 1998 and 2005, and were followed up through December 31, 2007.

INTERVENTIONS:
Oral treatment with folic acid (0.8 mg/d) plus vitamin B(12) (0.4 mg/d) and vitamin B(6) (40 mg/d) (n = 1708); folic acid (0.8 mg/d) plus vitamin B(12) (0.4 mg/d) (n = 1703); vitamin B(6) alone (40 mg/d) (n = 1705); or placebo (n = 1721).

MAIN OUTCOME MEASURES:
Cancer incidence, cancer mortality, and all-cause mortality.

RESULTS:
During study treatment, median serum folate concentration increased more than 6-fold among participants given folic acid. After a median 39 months of treatment and an additional 38 months of posttrial observational follow-up, 341 participants (10.0%) who received folic acid plus vitamin B(12) vs 288 participants (8.4%) who did not receive such treatment were diagnosed with cancer (hazard ratio  , 1.21; 95% confidence interval [CI], 1.03-1.41; P = .02). A total of 136 (4.0%) who received folic acid plus vitamin B(12) vs 100 (2.9%) who did not receive such treatment died from cancer (HR, 1.38; 95% CI, 1.07-1.79; P = .01). A total of 548 patients (16.1%) who received folic acid plus vitamin B(12) vs 473 (13.8%) who did not receive such treatment died from any cause (HR, 1.18; 95% CI, 1.04-1.33; P = .01). Results were mainly driven by increased lung cancer incidence in participants who received folic acid plus vitamin B(12). Vitamin B(6) treatment was not associated with any significant effects.

CONCLUSION:
Treatment with folic acid plus vitamin B(12) was associated with increased cancer outcomes and all-cause mortality in patients with ischemic heart disease in Norway, where there is no folic acid fortification of foods.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Cancer Epidemiol Biomarkers Prev. 2010 Jun;19(6):1632-42. Epub 2010 May 25.

Circulating folate, vitamin B12, homocysteine, vitamin B12 transport proteins, and risk of prostate cancer: a case-control study, systematic review, and meta-analysis.

Collin SM, Metcalfe C, Refsum H, Lewis SJ, Zuccolo L, Smith GD, Chen L, Harris R, Davis M, Marsden G, Johnston C, Lane JA, Ebbing M, Bønaa KH, Nygård O, Ueland PM, Grau MV, Baron JA, Donovan JL, Neal DE, Hamdy FC, Smith AD, Martin RM.

Source
Department of Social Medicine, University of Bristol, Bristol, United Kingdom. simon.collin@bristol.ac.uk

Abstract

BACKGROUND:

Disturbed folate metabolism is associated with an increased risk of some cancers. Our objective was to determine whether blood levels of folate, vitamin B(12), and related metabolites were associated with prostate cancer risk.

METHODS:

Matched case-control study nested within the U.K. population-based Prostate testing for cancer and Treatment (ProtecT) study of prostate-specific antigen-detected prostate cancer in men ages 50 to 69 years. Plasma concentrations of folate, B(12) (cobalamin), holo-haptocorrin, holo-transcobalamin total transcobalamin, and total homocysteine (tHcy) were measured in 1,461 cases and 1,507 controls. ProtecT study estimates for associations of folate, B(12), and tHcy with prostate cancer risk were included in a meta-analysis, based on a systematic review.

RESULTS:

In the ProtecT study, increased B(12) and holo-haptocorrin concentrations showed positive associations with prostate cancer risk [highest versus lowest quartile of B(12) odds ratio (OR) = 1.17 (95% confidence interval, 0.95-1.43); P(trend) = 0.06; highest versus lowest quartile of holo-haptocorrin OR = 1.27 (1.04-1.56); P(trend) = 0.01]; folate, holo-transcobalamin, and tHcy were not associated with prostate cancer risk. In the meta-analysis, circulating B(12) levels were associated with an increased prostate cancer risk [pooled OR = 1.10 (1.01-1.19) per 100 pmol/L increase in B(12); P = 0.002]; the pooled OR for the association of folate with prostate cancer was positive [OR = 1.11 (0.96-1.28) per 10 nmol/L; P = 0.2) and conventionally statistically significant if ProtecT (the only case-control study) was excluded [OR = 1.18 (1.00-1.40) per 10 nmol/L; P = 0.02].

CONCLUSION:

Vitamin B(12) and (in cohort studies) folate were associated with increased prostate cancer risk.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I should add that supplementation with excessive amounts of VITAMIN B6 is equally ill advised

 

 

ScienceGuy,

 

Apologies for quoting this large post, but it was somewhere on page 4 of 25 and I figured it would be easier to use for reference since it had probably been forgotten about. Everything that I've read about B12 is that it is required for the methylation cycle which in turn is used in DNA transcription. So if a participent in the study had been B12 deficient with budding malignant cancer cells wouldn't fixing the deficiency likely cause the cancer to grow more rapidly? What I'm trying to say is I don't believe B12 to be a cause for cancer but instead a catalyst if it's already on the way. My terrible analogy would be that of complaining that the fertilizer you spread on the lawn helped the weeds grow as well as the grass.

 

What do you think about that? I ask because I currently take high doses of Methylcobalamin via IM injection weekly on my own volition after being diagnosed with a low level over a decade ago. This combined with Methylfolate has FINALLY been giving me back the emotions that I have lacked for said decade and I'm not just constantly in my head all of the time. I actually get excited about something once in a while Point is, this cancer idea concerns me but my research and deductions on methylation leads me to believe that it's not causing any DNA mutations in itself, but just working as the fertilizer for our existing cells, cancerous or no. I apologize for the lack of pubmed/etc articles to backup and explain methylation and how it works, why it requires B12, how and why it causes transcription, etc.

 

Thanks a lot in advance for your feedback and for this thread, I'm already on Bacoba and high dose Magnesium Malate from my own personal research, I'm looking forward to exploring some of these others.
 

[world33]

Here how I found the cause for my severe morning anxiety:
I took a genetic test with 23andme.com and uploaded the DNA results into nutrahacker.com (free of charge). I found out that I have a MTHFR genetic mutation in the C667T gene that does not allow me to convert folate (vitamin B9) into its active form methylfolate; methylfolate is important for DNA replication but also to help produce neurotransmitters in the brain such as serotonin, dopamine and norepinephrine. Since I supplement with methylfolate and active forms of vitamin B12 such as hydroxocobalamin, methylcobalamin and adenosylcobalamin I feel much better. I would recommend anyone suffering from depression/anxiety or other MTHFR related medical conditions to take a genetic test with 23andme.com (99 USD) and upload the results in nutrahacker.com (free of charge), geneticgenie.org (free of charge) and promethease.com (5$).
If you have MTHFR mutations (especially C677T/A1298C genes) all the supplements mentioned in this thread are like putting patches to the issue but do not solve the primary cause of your neurotransmitters imbalance which may be caused by methylfolate (B9) deficiency.
To source methylfolate you can buy Solgar 1000mcg. Daily recommended dosages range from 1,000mcg to 15,000mcg. It is better to start with a low dosage and work your way up to see what the sweet point is. Too much methylfolate can have side effects so do your research on methylfolate side effects to understand when you are over supplementing (overmethyliation). Deplin (that come in 7.5 or 15 mg dosage) and other prescription medications are very expensive. Another cheap source is through Alibaba.com; I bought 10 grams for 138 USD (Shanghai Soyoung Biotechnology Inc) and it is going to last for ages. Search for MTHFR Mutation for further information and resources. Dr. Neil Rawlins has posted some very interesting videos on the subject on Youtube such as (1,2,3,4 parts) and

Edited by world33, 04 July 2015 - 12:13 AM.

[Daniel Cooper]

It may have been discussed somewhere in this long thread, but can anyone tell me what happened to ScienceGuy?  It's been almost a year since he's logged in.  I'm worried about him and have some questions for him. 

 

PM if needed.

 

 

[123apk]

Hi Scienceguy. Thanks for going to the trouble of making such a list, I've saved a copy for future reference.

Anyway, phenibut abuaer here. It's no longer working for anxiety and the other things I got from it like increased motivation and energy that I think came from it affecting dopamine are gone too.

I'm trying to wean myself off, but I'm struggling to understand agonists and antagonists.
L theanine is something I considered, it looks promising. Would an antagonist actually help recovery from an agonist though?

Presumably phenibut acted like gaba in my brain, like a gaba agonist and perhaps affected dopamine too. But now the receptors are down regulated so aren't responding to it as much, I'm not sure how that works? Surely you'd just need less gaba, less phenibut?
So L theanine would block the receptors making that gaba stay floating around in my brain, but isn't it doing that already? I don't understand.
Will it actually help fix receptors by upregulation or will it simply keep messing with my overworked receptors when I should be just lowering the phenibut and coming off everything gaba related and living "clean"?

I don't know how it works, could you explain it. Thanks.

[123apk]

On L theanine though - I think I do feel it in tea sometimes. It's very mild but now phenibut has been acting badly I've had a craving for tea and found it slightly calming. Always found it slightly calming anyway and I can buy it in bulk. But a lot of people say they don't feel much from it, just wondering if it's worth it.

[nicklesprout]

i've read that Fasoracetam can help repair damage due to Phenibut since it supposedly upregulates GABA-B receptors, you can get it online for a relatively decent price, assuming it works for you at the recommended dosage.

[bzyb]

Presumably phenibut acted like gaba in my brain, like a gaba agonist and perhaps affected dopamine too. But now the receptors are down regulated so aren't responding to it as much, I'm not sure how that works? Surely you'd just need less gaba, less phenibut?
 

 

Phenibut is not a good thing to take regularly since it has similar mechanisms to benzos and probably worse withdrawals. After a while its probably best to go awash from all things so your receptors get a chance to bounce back. Theanine is a good thing to take. For me, it doesnt see to help much with my anxiety, but its good to help lower glutamate which then helps raise gaba levels.  A couple other supplements that can do that is Valerian and Kava Kava so I disagree with ScienceGuy in that respect, that many of the gaba-agonist herbs are okay to take but once in a while. They should not be grouped with pharmaceuticals or substances like alcohol, ssris, etc.  

 

Last, if you are having trouble weaning off of Phenibut, I heard Baclofen is good, its similar but not as much issues with tolerance/withdrawals. Its also a muscle relaxers and helps disc issues in my back.  Uridine happy stack can help regulate dopamine levels, but its also important to change bad past habits.

Presumably phenibut acted like gaba in my brain, like a gaba agonist and perhaps affected dopamine too. But now the receptors are down regulated so aren't responding to it as much, I'm not sure how that works? Surely you'd just need less gaba, less phenibut?
 

 

Phenibut is not a good thing to take regularly since it has similar mechanisms to benzos and probably worse withdrawals. After a while its probably best to go awash from all things so your receptors get a chance to bounce back. Theanine is a good thing to take. For me, it doesnt see to help much with my anxiety, but its good to help lower glutamate which then helps raise gaba levels.  A couple other supplements that can do that is Valerian and Kava Kava so I disagree with ScienceGuy in that respect, that many of the gaba-agonist herbs are okay to take but once in a while. They should not be grouped with pharmaceuticals or substances like alcohol, ssris, etc.  

 

Last, if you are having trouble weaning off of Phenibut, I heard Baclofen is good, its similar but not as much issues with tolerance/withdrawals. Its also a muscle relaxers and helps disc issues in my back.  Uridine happy stack can help regulate dopamine levels, but its also important to change bad past habits.

Presumably phenibut acted like gaba in my brain, like a gaba agonist and perhaps affected dopamine too. But now the receptors are down regulated so aren't responding to it as much, I'm not sure how that works? Surely you'd just need less gaba, less phenibut?
 

 

Phenibut is not a good thing to take regularly since it has similar mechanisms to benzos and probably worse withdrawals. After a while its probably best to go awash from all things so your receptors get a chance to bounce back. Theanine is a good thing to take. For me, it doesnt see to help much with my anxiety, but its good to help lower glutamate which then helps raise gaba levels.  A couple other supplements that can do that is Valerian and Kava Kava so I disagree with ScienceGuy in that respect, that many of the gaba-agonist herbs are okay to take but once in a while. They should not be grouped with pharmaceuticals or substances like alcohol, ssris, etc.  

 

Last, if you are having trouble weaning off of Phenibut, I heard Baclofen is good, its similar but not as much issues with tolerance/withdrawals. Its also a muscle relaxers and helps disc issues in my back.  Uridine happy stack can help regulate dopamine levels, but its also important to change bad past habits.

[world33]

Based on my genetic profile obtained through 23andme.com, personal genetic literature research and experience in trying several supplements I would add to the list the following supplements:

1) methylfolate (active form of B9) for MTHFR genetic mutations; dosage from 800mcg (Solgar) to 15mg (methylpro.com or methyl-life.com) per day divided in two doses one in the morning and one in the afternoon (considering methylfolate has 3 hours half-life); start with the lowest dose and work your way up to the sweetest point with no over-methylation side effects.
2) molybdenum for CBS, SUOX and MOCS1/MOCS2 genetic mutations; molybdenum is needed to convert toxic sulfites into harmless sulfates (Sulfite oxidase); dosage from 150 mcg to 500 mcg, start with the lowest dose.
3) hydroxocobalamin B12 for COMT genetic mutations; weekly IM injections are best, sublingual lozenges second best (i.e. PERQUE Activated B-12 Guard)
 
All the above supplements have had an immense positive effect on my morning anxiety, fatigue, brain fog. The first time I tried molybdenum I literally felt a wave of relaxation and clear mindedness that I did not experience for years. I was really surprised to experience that effect from just a mineral.

The starting point is taking a genetic test with 23andme.com and plug your raw data into third part services such as nutrahacker.com, geneticgenie.com, knowyourgenetics.com and livewello.com.

If you can't be bothered try the above supplements and discard the ones that have no noticeable effect on you.

 

[chemicalambrosia]

Based on my genetic profile obtained through 23andme.com, personal genetic literature research and experience in trying several supplements I would add to the list the following supplements:

1) methylfolate (active form of B9) for MTHFR genetic mutations; dosage from 800mcg (Solgar) to 15mg (methylpro.com or methyl-life.com) per day divided in two doses one in the morning and one in the afternoon (considering methylfolate has 3 hours half-life); start with the lowest dose and work your way up to the sweetest point with no over-methylation side effects.
2) molybdenum for CBS, SUOX and MOCS1/MOCS2 genetic mutations; molybdenum is needed to convert toxic sulfites into harmless sulfates (Sulfite oxidase); dosage from 150 mcg to 500 mcg, start with the lowest dose.
3) hydroxocobalamin B12 for COMT genetic mutations; weekly IM injections are best, sublingual lozenges second best (i.e. PERQUE Activated B-12 Guard)
 
All the above supplements have had an immense positive effect on my morning anxiety, fatigue, brain fog. The first time I tried molybdenum I literally felt a wave of relaxation and clear mindedness that I did not experience for years. I was really surprised to experience that effect from just a mineral.

The starting point is taking a genetic test with 23andme.com and plug your raw data into third part services such as nutrahacker.com, geneticgenie.com, knowyourgenetics.com and livewello.com.

If you can't be bothered try the above supplements and discard the ones that have no noticeable effect on you.

 

What dosage of molybdenum did you take? Haven't you taken a multivitamin with molybdenum before? LEF 2 per day has molybdenum in it. http://www.iherb.com...-capsules/55276

[Chris_T_Malta]

 

The starting point is taking a genetic test with 23andme.com and plug your raw data into third part services such as nutrahacker.com, geneticgenie.com, knowyourgenetics.com and livewello.com.

 

Which one would you suggest?

[123apk]

i've read that Fasoracetam can help repair damage due to Phenibut since it supposedly upregulates GABA-B receptors, you can get it online for a relatively decent price, assuming it works for you at the recommended dosage.

 

Would the upregulation of GABA B receptors combat anxiety in the long run itself as well as repairing the damage from Phenibut though?

[123apk]

 

Presumably phenibut acted like gaba in my brain, like a gaba agonist and perhaps affected dopamine too. But now the receptors are down regulated so aren't responding to it as much, I'm not sure how that works? Surely you'd just need less gaba, less phenibut?
 

 

Phenibut is not a good thing to take regularly since it has similar mechanisms to benzos and probably worse withdrawals. After a while its probably best to go awash from all things so your receptors get a chance to bounce back. Theanine is a good thing to take. For me, it doesnt see to help much with my anxiety, but its good to help lower glutamate which then helps raise gaba levels.  A couple other supplements that can do that is Valerian and Kava Kava so I disagree with ScienceGuy in that respect, that many of the gaba-agonist herbs are okay to take but once in a while. They should not be grouped with pharmaceuticals or substances like alcohol, ssris, etc.  

 

Last, if you are having trouble weaning off of Phenibut, I heard Baclofen is good, its similar but not as much issues with tolerance/withdrawals. Its also a muscle relaxers and helps disc issues in my back.  Uridine happy stack can help regulate dopamine levels, but its also important to change bad past habits.

 

 

 

 

I plan on a slow tapering off Phenibut as soon as I can find something else, then maybe I can cycle the two or replace it if possible. I've been combining it with Tyrosine for a while now to get the motivation from dopamine back and it worked for a while but doesn't seem to be doing as much now.

One thing I notice about both is if I don't get a normal amount of sleep or if I'm overworked and tired then I can have days when I don't really feel them. I just worked a 60 hour week which is unusual for me and I only felt them for the two days I was using them (5 days), every other day I felt fairly close to normal.

 

I take 5 htp on weekends because it's a mix with inositol, theanine and a few other things I read are good for repairing receptors, plus I think I read something about high GABA concentrations having a negative affect on serotinin. 

The thing is - when I use the 5htp complex for sleep the night before I don't feel Phenibut the next day, it somehow cancels it out and I'm not sure what thing in it does it, but that's why I only take it on weekends when I'm off Phenibut. Weekends are fairly boring, I try to stay in and take it easy, have little motivation to do anything, anxiety if I go out and a slight depression, but it doesn't seem long enough for full withdrawal.

 

Theanine isn't strong enough on its own I feel and Kava Kava I hear is hit and miss if it works and it seems sedating and to take at night, I'm not sure if effects last into the net day or not. Plus it has a funny legal status here - illegal to sell but not to buy, but if you're importing it with intention to sell then it's illegal. So I couldn't stock up on it for myself without risking customs seeing it and thinking I'm trying to supply it.

 

I'm considering trying Cannabidiol since it's legal here, but expensive. I can find very little info on it though other than it's good for easing pain and anxiety. The few things I did read about it said you still get the negative thoughts but they don't seem to bother you and a downside is you're quite sedated and sleepy. I have to work and function though, I don't want to be sedated, I want to be normal or motivated and anxiety free. I also don't know whether it would give me the stoner look in my eyes or something, I'm not sure. Presumably it'd only work for so long but hopefully I'd have tapered off the phenibut long enough for it to work again and could just rotate the two or find something else.

 

One point is though that I hoped my experience on Phenibut would change me, make me learn my way out of anxiety. I suppose it just stopped me from thinking about the problems that were still there though.

 

 

A weird thing with the phenibut is though that I don't seem to be able to go above a certain amount. My usual daily amount is between 1.5g and 1.8g max. I went up to 2.5g and 3g before on a few occasions and after a few hours when it kicked in I had massive brain fog and an instant hangover (I don't get hangovers from phenibut the next day either), plus it seemed to wear off quicker and that's when the depression kicked in all in the space of a few hours... 

I only dose once a day and I can go a day or two without it without getting depression, so it's very weird and it's the main reason why I haven't upped the dose, it's like my brain rejects it. I haven't tried that for a while though so it might not still hold true. Tyrosine is similar too, if I go even a bit over I get brain fogged. Seems like the two have a very fine line, I use 1.5g of tyrosine during week days.

 

If Cannabidiol works then it seems a different mechanism of action that doesn't just numb me to the external world like Phenibut so hopefully I can try and learn whilst I'm on it to socialise and realise the world's not quite such a bad place. Other than that I'm stuck for ideas really.

 

Based on my genetic profile obtained through 23andme.com, personal genetic literature research and experience in trying several supplements I would add to the list the following supplements:

1) methylfolate (active form of B9) for MTHFR genetic mutations; dosage from 800mcg (Solgar) to 15mg (methylpro.com or methyl-life.com) per day divided in two doses one in the morning and one in the afternoon (considering methylfolate has 3 hours half-life); start with the lowest dose and work your way up to the sweetest point with no over-methylation side effects.
2) molybdenum for CBS, SUOX and MOCS1/MOCS2 genetic mutations; molybdenum is needed to convert toxic sulfites into harmless sulfates (Sulfite oxidase); dosage from 150 mcg to 500 mcg, start with the lowest dose.
3) hydroxocobalamin B12 for COMT genetic mutations; weekly IM injections are best, sublingual lozenges second best (i.e. PERQUE Activated B-12 Guard)
 
All the above supplements have had an immense positive effect on my morning anxiety, fatigue, brain fog. The first time I tried molybdenum I literally felt a wave of relaxation and clear mindedness that I did not experience for years. I was really surprised to experience that effect from just a mineral.

The starting point is taking a genetic test with 23andme.com and plug your raw data into third part services such as nutrahacker.com, geneticgenie.com, knowyourgenetics.com and livewello.com.

If you can't be bothered try the above supplements and discard the ones that have no noticeable effect on you.

 

I've thought about using 23andme in the past because I was interested in the genetic ancestry part of it. I'm thinking of doing it even more now though since the genetic and medical info looks very comprehensive.

[123apk]

I've mainly talked about the bad sides of Phenibut on here and the weakening of its effects, but I've probably used it for 6 months now and it's been perhaps the most productive and changing few months I've had.

At work especially it's been very helpful, it's helped me come out of my shell a lot. I was quite shy originally, in time I became a bit more outgoing but still was in the background. When I started Phenibut I really came out of my shell, I worked very well on it, was just motivated and got things done and didn't care what crap was thrown my way. In the last 6 months I've gone from being a guy in the background to being a manager and dealing with people much older and more experienced than me.

I became much more outgoing and social and could take sh** off people without dying inside, caring or even remembering what they said (whereas anxious me thinks about it for hours or even days).

I had some better times with mates, although I do regret not getting out more and socialising on it and meeting new people and living a bit, I just used it mainly to do well at work and help me out in public.

 

But despite all the negatives to it and the decline as it wears off, it's been quite life changing really and I don't want to go back. The thought that scares me is if it just stops working completely as it probably will eventually, I hope I don't become so crap that everything I've done is lost because it brought out the best in me by taking away the anxiety.

Tyrosine seems to be extending the effects a bit, but it's not entirely working as well now either and it kind of gives me a short fuse, plus when people do piss me off on it I don't seem to be able to hold back telling them on it any more, it can make me irritable.

 

Ultimately I can't depend on things forever, but I can't just taper of Phenibut and hope for the best. At best I'd go back to my normal self, at worst even with tapering off I'd feel more anxiety than before.

I'm hoping CBD (Cannabidiol) can ease the tapering off and be a good replacement. I'm also hoping it might positively affect my brain permanently as a lot of weed smokers seem to get (whether good or bad). I doubt Phenibut will leave behind any long last good changes in my brain with receptors down regulated. Most of all I hope that eventually with the help of these things I can make an effort to socialise more and learn my way out of anxiety without the need to resort to these in the end, but it's probably a long process.

 

Hope I haven't alarmed anyone.

[world33]

The starting point is taking a genetic test with 23andme.com and plug your raw data into third part services such as nutrahacker.com, geneticgenie.com, knowyourgenetics.com and livewello.com.

 
Which one would you suggest?

The 23andme.com genetic test is 99$ plus shipping. The third party services are all free of charge except livewello.com and an extended version of nutrahacker.com. I like nutrahacker.com because it suggests what supplements to try based on some (not ALL) of your genetic mutations; knowyourgenetics.com also offer advice on what supplements to take but suggests too many supplements, including questionable and expensive RNA ones, which are sold by the same people that run the website. Nutrahacker.com does not have any interest in selling their own products. Livewello can be a very powerful tool because you can create list of genes, or install templates already made by others, related to medical conditions and see what homozygous and heterozygous mutations you have whithin that list. Unfortunately livewello.com does not provide a list of supplements to take in order to address a specific mutation and you have to do your own research to find out which mutations can have an impact and what supplements can help. It is for advanced users in my opinion.

[world33]

What dosage of molybdenum did you take? Haven't you taken a multivitamin with molybdenum before? LEF 2 per day has molybdenum in it. http://www.iherb.com...-capsules/55276

No I have not, the chelated molybdenum contains 150mcg and it is from Solgar.

[world33]

I've thought about using 23andme in the past because I was interested in the genetic ancestry part of it. I'm thinking of doing it even more now though since the genetic and medical info looks very comprehensive.

For me it was the best investment I made. Without a genetic test I would have never known that I am C667t homozygous and able to convert only 30% of folic acid/folate into its active form methylfolate. Methylfolate made a big difference for me.
Since the FDA ordered 23andme.com to stop providing interpretation and risk assesment based on the gentic test results (read http://www.vox.com/2...-23andme-health) the only way to interpret a large pool of genes is through the Promethease.com service (5$).

Edited by world33, 29 October 2015 - 06:29 AM.

[123apk]

 

I've thought about using 23andme in the past because I was interested in the genetic ancestry part of it. I'm thinking of doing it even more now though since the genetic and medical info looks very comprehensive.

For me it was the best investment I made. Without a genetic test I would have never known that I am C667t homozygous and able to convert only 30% of folic acid/folate into its active form methylfolate. Methylfolate made a big difference for me.
Since the FDA ordered 23andme.com to stop providing interpretation and risk assesment based on the gentic test results (read http://www.vox.com/2...-23andme-health) the only way to interpret a large pool of genes is through the Promethease.com service (5$).

 

 

Would 23andme or Promothease tell you about brain receptors, anxiety and depression risk (I know they do alzheimers) and diet? They really give no clue what they analyse on their site.

[thomasanderson2]

 

 

I've thought about using 23andme in the past because I was interested in the genetic ancestry part of it. I'm thinking of doing it even more now though since the genetic and medical info looks very comprehensive.

For me it was the best investment I made. Without a genetic test I would have never known that I am C667t homozygous and able to convert only 30% of folic acid/folate into its active form methylfolate. Methylfolate made a big difference for me.
Since the FDA ordered 23andme.com to stop providing interpretation and risk assesment based on the gentic test results (read http://www.vox.com/2...-23andme-health) the only way to interpret a large pool of genes is through the Promethease.com service (5$).

 

 

The notion that this MTHFR gene mutation can account for depression is intriguing - and I myself began supplementing with 1mg methylfolate recently - but I remain somewhat uncertain about how much conversion efficiency (from folate to methyfolate) is lost and whether the MTHFR variations are likely the dominant factor in most depression / anxiety:  First, I could see how the 30% efficiency factor (for the C667t homozygous) would be a problem... but I have to ask where the figure you've produced comes from? 

I'm seeing efficiency factors all over the map.

 

On the one hand, I see an authoritative sounding article suggesting that that the compound heterozygous genotypes - supposedly the worst variation with someone carrying both variants - has a 48% efficiency. See here:

"The compound heterozygous genotype, which refers to people carrying both variants is found in between 14% and 23% of people within most ethnic groups (Table 1) and can reduce enzyme activity by up to 48%."

http://www.gbhealthw...te-Overview.php

Yet, I'm also see an article suggesting that the homozygous variation has as little as 7% to 10% conversion efficiency.

see here:

"Homozygous Mutation: This means you have 2 affected genes on either the 677 or the 1298 position. In this case, your MTHFR enzyme will only run at about 7-10% efficiency."

http://www.freshidea...-getting-tested

 

Additionally, it appears that MTHFR variations are SO common that if they were the predominant cause for depression - so many more people would be depressed.

"Overall, about 85% of the general population carries at least one of these variants."

http://www.gbhealthw...te-Overview.php

And conversely, if methylfolate is a dominant part of the equation, then (one would think) it would be part of the standard protocol for treatment of depression (although I can probably answer that question myself as to why medicine doesn't embrace these things).

 

Finally, this is definitely an area of disagreement between standard american doctors (sad) and progressive doctors:

The "sad" crowd is essentially advising that those with the variation supplement folic acid.

"For high risk populations, such as pregnant women and those carrying the MTHFR gene variants, folic acid supplementation is recommended."

http://www.gbhealthw...te-Overview.php

The progressive models is for those with variations is to supplement with methylfolate while avoiding folic acid entirely (as it would compete with and blocks methylfolate - or it is stored in body tissue).

"If you have MTHFR, consuming Folic Acid is a big no, no. Our bodies can’t process it and the excess ends up being stored as toxins in our organs and tissue."

http://mthfrliving.c...to-avoid-mthfr/

Edited by thomasanderson2, 09 November 2015 - 06:01 PM.

[vaarmen]

Today I had one my first experiences with Salvia.
I will be telling the experience soon and hope to get opinions about the following:

The KAPPA OPIOID SYSTEM, how it affects behavior and whether up or down-regulated state is more beneficial for a 21st century smart human.

First of all this is the first hallucinogen I have had an experience with and was not sure what to expect in general. I thought I would get something like virtual reality and I will be in the observer's point of view. What happened was quite fascinating, though.

 

The first time I did it was weird, it took me by surprise and I got into a dream like state where I could still think.

 

The third time I did salvia, after a few minutes of the dream like state I was back in the reality. I soon realized however, that my state of consciousness is alter. I felt like I am PURE CONSCIOUSNESS, other people have called this "death of ego". The feeling of SELF was not the entire body and mind but the PURE CONSCIOUSNESS only. 

 

Imagine you have a large human like robot, of a size of a large building, and you are sitting somewhere in the head of the robot. Visualize your view of the world at this point. How would you see the world ? What would you feel ? This is what I was feeling during the experience. The robot was my BODY and the driver - the "you" in the example was MY CONSCIOUSNESS sitting in my head, observing the world. The feeling of my eyes closing seemed like you would feel if a large door was shut in front of you.

 

A lot of my subconscious processes, that work PARALLEL to the consciousness to produce behavior were barely present. Anxiety, fear, shame was basically nonexistence. There was only PURE CONSCIOUSNESS. I could do and say precisely ANYTHING I wanted to do. Have you experience social anxiety or discomfort in social situations, when it feels you don't have control ? When it feels your voice, your face expression or your behavior is partially out of your CONSCIOUS control, being governed my circuitry of fear, anxiety, social acceptance, anger or anything else ?
Salvia was the EXACT OPPOSITE of that. All those were inexistent. Every part of the behavior was under complete control.

 

My BRAIN FOG and DEPRESSION was gone. My thought was CLEAR and CLEAN.

 

 

Now here is my hypothesis of the neuropsychiatry that was happening:
Salvia has a very clean action - KAPPA OPIOID AGONIST.
Kappa opioids and Mu opioids have somewhat opposite effects. Kappa Agonist are supposed to have no euphoria whatsoever.

One of recent Depression models is that it's a state of UPREGULATED KAPPA OPIOID SYSTEM.
Kappa Opioid System is hypothesized to represent the APPROACH / AVOID spectrum of the person towards challenges.

 

I read about the above and decided to give Salvia a try. I wanted to AGONIZE the receptors to achieve LONG term DOWNREGULATION of the system. I was expecting to feel fear and dysphasia after few minutes of administration, but was stunned to achieve the full control and pure consciousness I was talking about.

 

One explanation is the following. Kappa neurons are usually coupled with dopamine neurons. Dopamine in the anxiety and fear systems creates anxiety and fear. Kappa neurons have inhibitory action on dopamine neurons. Increased Kappa activity caused by Salvia my decrease the activity of the subconscious areas of the mind, causing fear and anxiety leaving a feeling of PURE CONSCIOUSNESS.

 

Here is the DILEMMA, however !
Why is it then that previously, DOWNREGULATED KAPPA SYSTEM was considered preferable ? This is inconsistent with what I observed. 

 

Some people have experimented with JDTic which is a KAPPA ANTAGONIST. I would love to hear how they felt during the acute and withdrawal states. Any parallels ?

 

Anyone else has similar experiences with Salvia ?

 

P.S. I previously associated DOPAMINE with increased CONSCIOUS control. However being high on Salvia, I snorted some RITALIN which had NO EFFECT on the drive, motivation or thought process of my PURE CONSCIOUSNESS. Had I not have Salvia in my system I would feel the effects of the Ritalin a lot.

[world33]

I've thought about using 23andme in the past because I was interested in the genetic ancestry part of it. I'm thinking of doing it even more now though since the genetic and medical info looks very comprehensive.

For me it was the best investment I made. Without a genetic test I would have never known that I am C667t homozygous and able to convert only 30% of folic acid/folate into its active form methylfolate. Methylfolate made a big difference for me.
Since the FDA ordered 23andme.com to stop providing interpretation and risk assesment based on the gentic test results (read http://www.vox.com/2...-23andme-health) the only way to interpret a large pool of genes is through the Promethease.com service (5$).

 
The notion that this MTHFR gene mutation can account for depression is intriguing - and I myself began supplementing with 1mg methylfolate recently - but I remain somewhat uncertain about how much conversion efficiency (from folate to methyfolate) is lost and whether the MTHFR variations are likely the dominant factor in most depression / anxiety:  First, I could see how the 30% efficiency factor (for the C667t homozygous) would be a problem... but I have to ask where the figure you've produced comes from? 
I'm seeing efficiency factors all over the map.
 
On the one hand, I see an authoritative sounding article suggesting that that the compound heterozygous genotypes - supposedly the worst variation with someone carrying both variants - has a 48% efficiency. See here:
"The compound heterozygous genotype, which refers to people carrying both variants is found in between 14% and 23% of people within most ethnic groups (Table 1) and can reduce enzyme activity by up to 48%."
http://www.gbhealthw...te-Overview.php
Yet, I'm also see an article suggesting that the homozygous variation has as little as 7% to 10% conversion efficiency.
see here:
"Homozygous Mutation: This means you have 2 affected genes on either the 677 or the 1298 position. In this case, your MTHFR enzyme will only run at about 7-10% efficiency."
http://www.freshidea...-getting-tested
 
Additionally, it appears that MTHFR variations are SO common that if they were the predominant cause for depression - so many more people would be depressed.
"Overall, about 85% of the general population carries at least one of these variants."
http://www.gbhealthw...te-Overview.php
And conversely, if methylfolate is a dominant part of the equation, then (one would think) it would be part of the standard protocol for treatment of depression (although I can probably answer that question myself as to why medicine doesn't embrace these things).
 
Finally, this is definitely an area of disagreement between standard american doctors (sad) and progressive doctors:
The "sad" crowd is essentially advising that those with the variation supplement folic acid.
"For high risk populations, such as pregnant women and those carrying the MTHFR gene variants, folic acid supplementation is recommended."
http://www.gbhealthw...te-Overview.php
The progressive models is for those with variations is to supplement with methylfolate while avoiding folic acid entirely (as it would compete with and blocks methylfolate - or it is stored in body tissue).
"If you have MTHFR, consuming Folic Acid is a big no, no. Our bodies can’t process it and the excess ends up being stored as toxins in our organs and tissue."
http://mthfrliving.c...to-avoid-mthfr/

Good points and useful analysis thomasanderson2.
I think the publication stating the reduced MTHFR acitivity is the following:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.../pubmed/7647779
I think homozygous mutations are really the bad guys here and they are not as common as you might think. The C667T homozygous mutation (the one I have), for example, affects only around 7% of the population (according to Nutrahacker) and I am sure the contribution of other genes and whether some genetic mutations are actually expressed or not might come into place. All I know is that since I take 15 mg of methylfolate daily (Deplin a prescription methylfolate supplement sold in the US comes in 7.5 and 15mg doses) I feel much much better. 1mg would not do much for me but everyone is different and I suggest to increase the dose gradually until reaching the sweet point with no side effects. I had also good results with molybdenum (CBS mutation), hydroxycobalamin injections (COMT mutation), active B complex and lastly with oral glutathione (Setria) despite some believe it is not absorbed orally.
I am not sure whether the suggestion to avoid folic acid for MTHFR mutants has scientific validity. In the doubt I try to avoid supplements which contain it.
I think most of the traditional medical establishment still has to catch up with nutrigenomics and have no idea about these mutations. However, at least in the US, there are several supplements such as Deplin and cerefolin nac which are available in the market for addressing these mutations. NAC helps increase glutathione levels and that is why probably I benefit so much from suplementing glutathione orally.
An interesting article with references about the MTHFR mutations is available at https://previmedica....netic-mutation/
You can buy high dosage methylfolate supplements (cheaper than Deplin) at methyl-life.com or methylpro.com
I attach my Nutrahacker full report in case someone wants to compare their 23andme.com results and get some hints on what supplements to encourage and what to avoid. Please note that Nutrahacker is only a starting point and is not the bible of Nutrigenomics.

Attached Files

•  NutraHacker_Detox_and_Methylation_Report_Customer_Full_Report_Fabio.pdf   24.78KB   6 downloads

Edited by world33, 22 November 2015 - 01:02 PM.

[birthdaysuit]

What does one think of memantine or supplementing L-Lysine? Are they safe to supplement long-term? 

Edited by birthdaysuit, 06 January 2016 - 02:19 AM.

[birthdaysuit]

For what it's worth, I've found that eliminating all caffeine (but especially coffee) has significantly reduced my social/general anxiety to where it's virtually non-existent. There may be some other factors at play, such as introducing daily mediation, which I'd say was the second most helpful thing, but I'm fairly sure caffeine has been the largest culprit, as evidenced by starting up use again and feeling all the old anxieties return. I suppose my anxiety really didn't start until university coursework began to push me to use more and more of it. It's odd I didn't correlate the two sooner, but my increasing consumption was a pretty gradual process.

I'd also like to note that my average consumption at its peak was "only" one cup of coffee a day, thinking this wouldn't have much of an effect on me. It also took about a month of abstinence to start noticing positive effects.

Anyway, my thanks to ScienceGuy for this thread, even though it took me a while to heed some of the information.

Completely agree, abstaining from caffeine has virtually eliminated my social anxiety. I’m going to take Green tea off my stack, every time I drink a cup my anxiety flares up. 

 

Abstaining from caffeine, masturbation, meditating daily, and a sleep routine, have helped me to control my anxiety. 

 

L-lysine and Magnesium Malate were the only supplements that helped to ease my anxiety, partly because I had a deficiency in magnesium and l-lysine.