211 replies to this topic

[hooter]

Why twice a day though? Doesn't piracetam stay in effect for 4 hours?(my basic understanding) Wouldn't taking 3 doses at 4.8g every 4 hours equaling a total of 12 hours of active use be more beneficial?

Yes it would be.

I get the best results from 4 x 5 grams every 3 hours. I recommend this usually if financially possible.

(I know I said I'd take 24g, but I get nausea f I go over ~20. )

Edited by hooter, 24 February 2012 - 01:41 AM.

[Hyperspace21]

Why twice a day though? Doesn't piracetam stay in effect for 4 hours?(my basic understanding) Wouldn't taking 3 doses at 4.8g every 4 hours equaling a total of 12 hours of active use be more beneficial?

You could take more dosages, but,taking piracetam twice a day allows your brain enough time to recover (between the time of the 2 doses). Your brain becomes more active when taking piracetam, but when your off it; your brain utilizes the time to create more neurons. If your brain is constantly active, then your brain won't have enough time to create the necessary amount of neurons to sustain the effect at a normal state.

It's the same reason why people take naps. Your brain constantly works throughout the day and needs to take a nap to allow it to sustain the workload.

Seeing that you have an additional 12 hours for sleep; that time will be used to create more proteins and regulate body functions. Sleeping creates more neurons too, but that's only for 1 period of time. If you take a gap between the 2 doses then, neurons are created for a much longer period of time, since neurons are created between the gap of the 2 doses + your sleep.

So you can choose which would be better for you:

Getting more work done by consuming piracetam OR Increasing the ability to get more work done at a normal state.

[manic_racetam]

Hey science guy,

I'm curious to hear your opinion regarding these studies listed by Ichoose2live in another thread. Looks like it's showing piracetam to increase neuronal death in the hippocampus at the dosages you are recommending. Do you think it's disease specific for the disorders being treated in the studies?

[ScienceGuy]

Hey science guy,

I'm curious to hear your opinion regarding these studies listed by Ichoose2live in another thread. Looks like it's showing piracetam to increase neuronal death in the hippocampus at the dosages you are recommending. Do you think it's disease specific for the disorders being treated in the studies?

In short, yes I do "think it's disease specific for the disorders being treated in the studies"

There is substantiated evidence that demonstrates PIRACETAM in fact reduces NEURONAL DEATH in healthy individuals

See the following for example:

Alcohol. 1995 May-Jun;12(3):279-88.

Piracetam impedes hippocampal neuronal loss during withdrawal after chronic alcohol intake.

Brandão F, Paula-Barbosa MM, Cadete-Leite A.

Source
Department of Anatomy, Porto Medical School, Portugal.

Abstract
In previous studies we have demonstrated that prolonged ethanol consumption induced hippocampal neuronal loss. In addition, we have shown that withdrawal after chronic alcohol intake augmented such degenerative activity leading to increased neuronal death in all subregions of the hippocampal formation but in the CA3 field. In an attempt to reverse this situation, we tested, during the withdrawal period, the effects of piracetam (2-oxo-1-pyrrolidine acetamide), a cyclic derivative of gamma-aminobutyric acid, as there is previous evidence that it might act as a neuronoprotective agent. The total number of dentate granule, hilar, and CA3 and CA1 pyramidal cells of the hippocampal formation were estimated using unbiased stereological methods. We found out that in animals treated with piracetam the numbers of dentate granule, hilar, and CA1 pyramidal cells were significantly higher than in pure withdrawn animals, and did not differ from those of alcohol-treated rats that did not undergo withdrawal. These data suggest that piracetam treatment impedes, during withdrawal, the pursuing of neuronal degeneration.

PMID: 7639963

[1thoughtMaze1]

Tried it, Did nothing I think. Maybe I'm adrenosteron deficient. Tried the mirror test lately? Do your pupil flutter?

[jts234]

Hey science guy,

I'm curious to hear your opinion regarding these studies listed by Ichoose2live in another thread. Looks like it's showing piracetam to increase neuronal death in the hippocampus at the dosages you are recommending. Do you think it's disease specific for the disorders being treated in the studies?

In short, yes I do "think it's disease specific for the disorders being treated in the studies"

There is substantiated evidence that demonstrates PIRACETAM in fact reduces NEURONAL DEATH in healthy individuals

See the following for example:

Alcohol. 1995 May-Jun;12(3):279-88.

Piracetam impedes hippocampal neuronal loss during withdrawal after chronic alcohol intake.

Brandão F, Paula-Barbosa MM, Cadete-Leite A.

Source
Department of Anatomy, Porto Medical School, Portugal.

Abstract
In previous studies we have demonstrated that prolonged ethanol consumption induced hippocampal neuronal loss. In addition, we have shown that withdrawal after chronic alcohol intake augmented such degenerative activity leading to increased neuronal death in all subregions of the hippocampal formation but in the CA3 field. In an attempt to reverse this situation, we tested, during the withdrawal period, the effects of piracetam (2-oxo-1-pyrrolidine acetamide), a cyclic derivative of gamma-aminobutyric acid, as there is previous evidence that it might act as a neuronoprotective agent. The total number of dentate granule, hilar, and CA3 and CA1 pyramidal cells of the hippocampal formation were estimated using unbiased stereological methods. We found out that in animals treated with piracetam the numbers of dentate granule, hilar, and CA1 pyramidal cells were significantly higher than in pure withdrawn animals, and did not differ from those of alcohol-treated rats that did not undergo withdrawal. These data suggest that piracetam treatment impedes, during withdrawal, the pursuing of neuronal degeneration.

PMID: 7639963

Would you call a recovering alcoholic going through withdrawal a "healthy individual"? I'd argue that they are "marginally healthier than they were the day before", but hardly "healthy" compared to the overall population.

Edited by jts234, 01 March 2012 - 12:53 AM.

[Galantamine]

Pharmacology of Piracetam: http://hightowerphar...s-volume-1.html

[health_nutty]

After reading this study I would conclude that any dosage that is giving anxiolytic effects is not giving a nootropic effect. Maybe that is a good gauge if you are dosing too much?

------------------------------

[The nootropic and anxiolytic properties of different doses of piracetam].
[Article in Russian]
Voronina TA, Molodavkin GM, Borlikova GG, Ostrovskaia RU, Tushmalova NA, Naznamov GG
Laboratory of Psychopharmacology, Russian Academy of Medical Sciences, Moscow, Russia.

The effect of piracetam at various doses on the behavioral and electrophysiological characteristics was studied, including the development of passive and active avoidance conditional reflexes in rats, their behavior in conflict situations, and the transcallosal evoked response (TER) in rabbit brain. In the dose range from 50 to 300 mg/kg, piracetam improved the avoidance performance of both types and produced a dose-dependent increase in the TER amplitude, but did not affect the behavior of rats in conflict situations. As the drug dose was increased to 400-1000 mg/kg, the positive learning influence disappeared (sometimes the effect was even negative) and the TER increase changed to decrease. In contrast, the conflict situation tests revealed pronounced anxiolytic activity of piracetam at elevated doses. Thus, the nootropic and anxiolytic effects of piracetam (and, probably, of the other tranquilizers as well) do not coexist and are significantly shifted relative to one another on the dose scale, being probably realized via different mechanisms.

[hooter]

After reading this study I would conclude that any dosage that is giving anxiolytic effects is not giving a nootropic effect. Maybe that is a good gauge if you are dosing too much?

------------------------------

[The nootropic and anxiolytic properties of different doses of piracetam].
[Article in Russian]
Voronina TA, Molodavkin GM, Borlikova GG, Ostrovskaia RU, Tushmalova NA, Naznamov GG
Laboratory of Psychopharmacology, Russian Academy of Medical Sciences, Moscow, Russia.

The effect of piracetam at various doses on the behavioral and electrophysiological characteristics was studied, including the development of passive and active avoidance conditional reflexes in rats, their behavior in conflict situations, and the transcallosal evoked response (TER) in rabbit brain. In the dose range from 50 to 300 mg/kg, piracetam improved the avoidance performance of both types and produced a dose-dependent increase in the TER amplitude, but did not affect the behavior of rats in conflict situations. As the drug dose was increased to 400-1000 mg/kg, the positive learning influence disappeared (sometimes the effect was even negative) and the TER increase changed to decrease. In contrast, the conflict situation tests revealed pronounced anxiolytic activity of piracetam at elevated doses. Thus, the nootropic and anxiolytic effects of piracetam (and, probably, of the other tranquilizers as well) do not coexist and are significantly shifted relative to one another on the dose scale, being probably realized via different mechanisms.

Yes it is

To get the best of both worlds I recommend 300mg/kg per day. Arguably it has at least some mild anxiolytic effects at this dosage.

Edited by hooter, 02 March 2012 - 08:22 PM.

[alexander]

If you are still sensitive to piracetam (meaning your concentration/mood seems to peak at lower doses), I caution against taking a 4.8g dose. After reading this thread I tried taking a 4.8 gram dose (even though 400mg worked just fine for me) to see if it would give me an extra boost for finals and instead it completely floored me for a little over a day. Basically, it's best to play it safe until you have some free time to experiment with the effects.

[Richy Baker]

So six tablets three times a day, how empty does the stomach have to be?

Edited by Richy Baker, 19 March 2012 - 12:27 PM.

[SuperjackDid_]

If you are still sensitive to piracetam (meaning your concentration/mood seems to peak at lower doses), I caution against taking a 4.8g dose. After reading this thread I tried taking a 4.8 gram dose (even though 400mg worked just fine for me) to see if it would give me an extra boost for finals and instead it completely floored me for a little over a day. Basically, it's best to play it safe until you have some free time to experiment with the effects.

I would agreed on your statement ,
I have benefit from Piracetam at micro dose ,normal dose really improve my mood that other report effect very larger dose .
Piracetam may do something bad at very larger dose in very sensitive people .

[owtsgmi]

If you are still sensitive to piracetam (meaning your concentration/mood seems to peak at lower doses), I caution against taking a 4.8g dose. After reading this thread I tried taking a 4.8 gram dose (even though 400mg worked just fine for me) to see if it would give me an extra boost for finals and instead it completely floored me for a little over a day. Basically, it's best to play it safe until you have some free time to experiment with the effects.

I would agreed on your statement ,
I have benefit from Piracetam at micro dose ,normal dose really improve my mood that other report effect very larger dose .
Piracetam may do something bad at very larger dose in very sensitive people .

I experimented with dosages up to about 5g per day and was way over-stimulated. I have nicely settled at 800mg x 2 for about 18 months now.

[manic_racetam]

This is something you might want to read: http://www.ncbi.nlm..../pubmed/6415738

Especially this sentence: "Piracetam at 4.8 g/day had a more rapid onset of action on behavioral variables than 2.4 g/day, but its therapeutic effect tended to diminish at 12 weeks, possibly as the result of overstimulation."

[SuperjackDid_]

Can fulltext tell more info about "overstimulation" ?

Sorry for language ,Noot not help me at all even harm .

[Orajel]

If I take any less than 90-100mg/kg I can't notice anything. If I take more than that, around 2-300mg/kg with choline, I feel aweful. But we all know excess acetylcholine activity is implicated in depressed mood. I find 100mg/kg a day is effective for me, but I'm not sensitive to chemicals in general.

Manic_racetam, did you read the entire article? The abstract doesn't allude to how they came up with "possibly as the result of overstimulation." I'm curious how they drew that conclusion. As for stimulation, I can't seem to get any stimulating effects out of piracetam, nomatter how much I take. It helps me feel more lucid, but thats about it.

[unregistered_user]

I don't get any stimulating effect whatsoever from Piracetam either, save for maybe the first day I tried it.

[gamesguru]

I believe cholinergic stimulants won't have the same perceptible "stimulating" effect as dopaminergic stimulants (speed, cocaine, marijuana, tyrosine, etc). Let's not compare the pithiness of oranges to the crispness of apples.

[dirdir207]

dopamergic stimulants usually tend to make me lethargic, where as any kind of cholinergic gives me immense energy, but that's just my own personal brain chemistry.

[MattJ]

Has anyone taken these kinds of doses for an extended period of time and noticed any concerning side effects?

I would be interested to know as I am planning on starting to incorporate this into my daily regimen. Thanks!

[gamesguru]

I have taken piracetam at around 8 grams daily for a few weeks, and aniracetam at around 2-3 grams daily for about 10-15 days. I didn't notice anything much, negative. The positives are certainly there, but nothing worth bragging about. It (using the ractams) could have put extra stress on my liver/kidneys/intestines, which results in some other symptoms. It seems not to have many inflammatory properties (thankfully). It seems to relax my muscles and nerves, and to sometimes stimulate my wit.

I have never tried oxiracetam or pramiracetam, but given their growing credibility/safety profile, I'll probably be liberal enough to try them soon.

[MattJ]

I have taken piracetam at around 8 grams daily for a few weeks, and aniracetam at around 2-3 grams daily for about 10-15 days. I didn't notice anything much, negative. The positives are certainly there, but nothing worth bragging about. It (using the ractams) could have put extra stress on my liver/kidneys/intestines, which results in some other symptoms. It seems not to have many inflammatory properties (thankfully). It seems to relax my muscles and nerves, and to sometimes stimulate my wit.

I have never tried oxiracetam or pramiracetam, but given their growing credibility/safety profile, I'll probably be liberal enough to try them soon.

Thanks for the input. It's interesting how substances can affect people in so many different ways depending on how that specific person reacts to them. You never know until you try for yourself I suppose.

-Matt

[cat@]

Has anyone taken these kinds of doses for an extended period of time and noticed any concerning side effects?

I would be interested to know as I am planning on starting to incorporate this into my daily regimen. Thanks!

I tried it and went into a dark depression. I stopped the high doses immediately and came out of it the very next day. Of course I'm not 100% sure if the overdosing on Piracetam was responsible but it does tend to mess with me (quicker temper, less patient with certain people, much more critical of those around me, etc). Also, others have mentioned depression on regular doses. Regardless, only time will tell.

[jz88]

I've been experimenting with Piracetam, Aniracetam & Cholrine over the past 6 months. The highest dose of Pira Or Ani I can handle is 1.6gr per day and intervals seem to produce more desirable effects. I find the most beneficial schedule for me is one day on and one day off. This seems to allows time for the brain to re-establish equilibrium which I have found to be important for my sleep and healthy subconscious operation. Obviously to claim this, I must have been experiencing noticable side effects from consistent dosage...

When I wake in the mornings after consistent daily dosage I feel as though subconscious communication between the two hemispheres has been overwhelming and harder to 'snap out of'. Once awake, it takes time for the natural inclination towards hemisphere separation to occur as the brain returns to it's conscious state - this I found to be uncomfortable and it's the reason I've never allowed myself to take more than my initial starting dosages of 800-1600mg + 400mg Cholrine. The feeling can be described as being held in a dream-like (subconscious) state for too long after waking. I can more accurately recall longer portions of my dreams for a longer period of time and that particular state experienced in within a conscious state is something I find to be undesirable.

Before I arrived at the alternating daily schedule, I has been trialing 4 days on 3 days off. The problem I found with 4 days on is that it was beginning to produce more pronounced effects in the AM. The 3 days off period became the more comfortable time, which indicated I should change schedule. I take a single dose one hour after waking, to allow maximum time for the substance to dissipate as much as possible before sleep. I'm very receptive to mind altering substances and it's long been a trend that others around me can handle (or require) higher amounts of mind altering substances.

Apart from the subconcious effects, generally I feel positive effects from the racetams. Improved verbal/written communication & ability to interpret text/strings of shapes outside the focal point quicker (reading & more responsive peripheral vision - I think of it as the 'eagle eye' which also helps with sport/hand-eye co-ordination) have been the most noticable effects.

I encourage other racetam users to experiment with interval dosage. I think allowing nature to return to it's middle state on it's own over time is imporant when chemical reactions in the brain are altered. If there's no downtime permitted, nature tends to revert to other (perhaps undesirable) measures to counter the new, consistent array of chemicals.

I've read many times that Piracetam is active for only 4 hours or so. I feel the effects into the next day and would estimate the time at 24-36 hours. I double the ~24 hours for a 48 hour interval between consumption and it's improved my healthy responsiveness to the substance. I think of the substance effect as a wave graph and believe it's important the wave reaches it's opposing minimum (completion of chemical equilibrium) before initiating the cycle again.

παν μέτρον άριστον - Moderation in all things.

For some people I believe interval and timing will prove to be more important than worrying about the actual dosage amount. Sometimes "how often?" is a better question that "how much?"..

[caveat]

Inspired by this thread, tried piracetam once again. Two weeks of two approx. 5g doses / day. No effects.
After that, tried taking approx. 20g in one intake -- still no effect.

[Jr Cauton]

Where do you guys get your Piracetam? I want to give this a try. TIA.

[Raza]

Question that bears repeating: How do those of you that take multiple grams per dose of piracetam from bulk powder take it without tasting it or sitting down to fill a whole bunch of capsules for every dose?

[X_Danny_X]

Damn 4.5 grams of Piracetam 3 times a day. That is a lot and I expect to be harming in your wallet. Where do you guys buy a giant bulk of Piracetam??

[What'sAllThisThen]

Question that bears repeating: How do those of you that take multiple grams per dose of piracetam from bulk powder take it without tasting it or sitting down to fill a whole bunch of capsules for every dose?

When I took it I'd fill a glass with a very small amount of water and swirl the piracetam in it to dissolve it a lil. Then just gulp it down with one swift motion. If you know how to open your throat it just pours right down and is only on your tongue for a second. Chase it down with more water/fluid to rinse the tongue and hydrate. I don't consider piracetam or even the dreaded sulbutiamine to be nasty, because I barely taste them with this method. The small amount you do taste is rinsed right afterward. I just used water as a chaser, but juice would probably work even better.

[Raza]

Thanks!

That sounds like a useful trick to master.