PIRACETAM DOSAGE - Why you should be taking 4.8 grams / dose
#181
Posted 04 May 2014 - 01:35 PM
Concentration dependent antioxidant/pro-oxidant activity of curcumin studies from AAPH induced hemolysis of RBCs.
http://www.ncbi.nlm....ubmed/18571152/
Nicotine's oxidative and antioxidant properties in CNS.
http://www.ncbi.nlm....ubmed/12377264/
Resveratrol as an antioxidant and pro-oxidant agent: mechanisms and clinical implications.
http://www.ncbi.nlm....ubmed/17956300/
The antioxidant and pro-oxidant activities of green tea polyphenols: a role in cancer prevention.
http://www.ncbi.nlm....ubmed/20558130/
#182
Posted 05 May 2014 - 12:07 AM
And why isn't its marker MDA a good indicator? Yes, it increased glutathione A LITTLE, which makes the situation a bit better, but total antioxidative capacity decreased.
The measure of antioxidant capacity (AC) considers the cumulative action of all the antioxidants present in plasma and body fluids, thus providing an integrated parameter rather than the simple sum of measurable antioxidants. The capacity of known and unknown antioxidants and their synergistic interaction is therefore assessed, thus giving an insight into the delicate balance in vivo between oxidants and antioxidants. Measuring plasma AC may help in the evaluation of physiological, environmental, and nutritional factors of the redox status in humans. Determining plasma AC may help to identify conditions affecting oxidative status in vivo (e.g., exposure to reactive oxygen species and antioxidant supplementation).
http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/11121717
I decided to look at the full study because the abstract isn't completely clear.
MDA increases with piracetam over ethidium control. High dosage piracetam increased MDA the most out of all the groups.
Malondialdehyde is generated from reactive oxygen species (ROS), and as such is assayed in vivo as a bio-marker of oxidative stress.[3]
https://docs.google....it?usp=drivesdk
TOTAL ANTIOXIDANT CAPACITY decreases with piracetam in both dosages (statistically significant), but not really vinpocetine (never had an issue with vinpocetine). Strangely, TAC went up a little in the higher dosage, but was still significantly lower. My guess is at a certain level of OS, GSH/other endogenous antioxidants production ramped up and combated the OS, but reduced glutathione glutathione isn't an unlimited resource. But still, piracetam likely contribute to OS burden by increasing MDA and possibly other oxidants.
https://docs.google....it?usp=drivesdk
Glutathione increases with the higher dosages of piracetam. But, again, chronic usage doesn't appear to be wise given that glutathione isn't an unlimited resource. Combine sleep deprivation, toxins, etc..and you get too much of an OS burden...
https://docs.google....it?usp=drivesdk
"In case of piracetam, the
highest dose of the drug increased lipid peroxidation inbrain, whilst eliciting increased brain GSH. An intriguingexplanation for these observations is that at their highconcentration, these drugs exhibit pro-oxidant propertiesand increase free radical production or act as a free radicaland in this latter case, it is possible that either piratcetam orvinpocetine react with other free radicals or antioxidantsystems other than glutathione, which is spared in thiscondition."
I think the author sums up the findings well in their discussion.
"In summary, findings in the present study indicates thatdemyelination due to the local injection of ethidium bromideinto the rat brain is associated with increased oxidativestress. The study suggests an antioxidant effect for thenootropic drugs vinpocetine and piracetam at low doses. Incontrast, the higher doses were associated with an increasein oxidative stress, though both drugs offered significantprotection against GSH depletion induced by ethidiumbromide. The clinical significance of these findings needsto be determined."If I only saw these studies, I would be skeptical. But piracetam's common side effects of brain fog suggest that oxidative stress in the hypothalamus is actually happening in people. The longer people take it the more likely they will experience brain fog, especially when combined with other stressor.Interestingly, it could be from increased dopamine production:"Piracetam has been reported to increase dopamine incortics and striatium [56–58] which might increase freeradical production. Dopamine is subject to auto-oxidationto semiquinone and quinones generating free radicals suchas superoxide anion, peroxynitrite, hydroxyl radical andnitrate radical. Semiquinones and quinines themselves canform conjugates with thiol compounds such as GSH andL-cysteine, and generate other radicals that are also toxic[59]. It is therefore possible that at high doses, both vinpocetineand piracetam might increase free radical productionthrough their effect on dopamine level in brain."
Does high antioxidant capacity indicate low oxidative stress?
http://cbn.eldoc.ub....lCostantini.pdf
Metabolic activity is a primary source of free radicals,
Oxygen-free radicals play an important role in several physiologic and pathophysiologic processes. In pathologic circumstances, they can modify and damage biologic systems. Because oxygen-free radicals are involved in a wide range of diseases (cerebrovascular, cardiovascular, etc.), scavenging these radicals should be considered as an important therapeutic approach. In our in vitro study, we investigated the antioxidant capacity of three drugs: pentoxiphylline (Sigma Aldrich, St. Louis, MO, USA) piracetam (Sigma Aldrich), and vinpocetine (Richter Gedeon RT, Budapest, Hungary). Phenazine methosulphate was applied to generate free radicals, increasing red blood cell rigidity. Filtration technique and potassium leaking were used to detect the cellular damage and the scavenging effect of the examined drugs. According to our results, at human therapeutic serum concentration, only vinpocetine (Richter Gedeon RT) had significant (p < 0.01) scavenging activity with a protective effect that increased further at higher concentrations. Pentoxiphylline (Sigma Aldrich) and piracetam (Sigma Aldrich) did not have significant antioxidant capacity at therapeutic concentrations, but increasing their concentrations (pentoxiphylline at 100-times, and piracetam at 10-times higher concentrations) led to a significant (p < 0.01) scavenger effect. Our findings suggest that this pronounced antioxidant effect of vinpocetine and even the milder scavenging capacity of pentoxiphylline and piracetam may be of value in the treatment of patients with cerebrovascular disorders, but merits further investigations.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11852295
Comparative evaluation of scavenger properties of exifone, piracetam and vinburnine.
The involvement of radical reactions in the ageing process, physiological as well as pathological, is well demonstrated. It is accepted that alloxan cyto-toxicity is linked to a production of hydroxylated free radicals and that a substance preventing the development of alloxanic diabetes possesses scavenger properties. The objective of this work was to demonstrate, in this model, the anti-radical effect of 3 molecules recommended in the treatment of cerebral insufficiency and a reference substance (+)-catechin. We observed a protective action with catechin (P less than 0.05) at the highest dose (100 mg/kg). PEG alone was moderately active but comparison of PEG-alloxan and PEG-exifone-alloxan showed a highly significant difference (P less than 0.001) at the two highest doses (60 and 120 mg/kg). Piracetam (200 and 400 mg/kg) and vinburnine (7.5 and 15 mg/kg) were inactive. Under these experimental conditions, exifone demonstrated remarkable anti-radical properties.
http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/11852295
Piracetam improves mitochondrial dysfunction following oxidative stress
Piracetam does not possess radical scavenging properties (Bentue-Ferrer et al., 1989; Horvath et al., 2002). This observation was recently confirmed by us since piracetam up to 5mm had no activity at all in two typical in vitro antioxidant assays (guajacol and oxyhemoglobin assay) (unpublished observations). Moreover, the classical radical scavenger trolox was not able to protect mitochondria under similar conditions (Figure 4). Thus, it seems quite likely that piracetam acts directly at the mitochondrial level, presumably by improving mitochondrial membrane properties (Muller et al., 1999). This is also supported by our observation that the protective effects were also seen in the recovery phase, when the oxidative stressor was already removed. Moreover, initial experiments from our lab also indicate similar effects of piracetam on isolated mouse brain mitochondria of animals treated with piracetam (unpublished observations). The concentrations of piracetam effective in vitro (100–1000μm) and the doses used in the in vivo experiments (100–500mgkg−1) are quite well within the plasma concentrations seen in patients treated with the standard dose of about 5g daily, which range between 200 and 2000μm (Saletu et al., 1986; 1995). Thus, it is quite likely that similar effects are also taking place in the brain of piracetam treated patients (Heiss et al., 1988; Eckert et al., 1999).
http://www.ncbi.nlm....les/PMC1615864/
Edited by Metagene, 05 May 2014 - 12:14 AM.
#183
Posted 05 May 2014 - 02:12 AM
Where you get the OS matters. Plant polyphenols usually result in OS in tumors. I'm concerned about OS in the hypothalamus.
We know some people are getting brain fog and other side effects from piracetam. http://selfhacked.co...with-piracetam/
The question is why. SOMETHING is happening.
Brain fog is very likely a result of OS in the hypothalamus (support for my theory: http://selfhacked.co...e-of-brain-fog/ - read whole post).
Piracetam causes brain fog in some people.
A study finds piracetam increases OS in the hypothalamus - I bet they weren't expecting that; they probably wanted to show that it's protective.
We can't know if this is the case in healthy people. Perhaps only susceptible people with autoimmune disorders of the brain, but I think that's unlikely.
It's therefore highly plausible that the reason piracetam causes brain fog is because of OS in the hypothalamus, at least for a portion of the population. I would surmise that this happens in healthy people as well, but we can disagree about that.
I'd like you to find any substance in my toolkit that increases OS IN THE HYPOTHALAMUS. http://selfhacked.com/my-regimen/
That would interest me.
Metagene, do you by any chance have a stake in the game? Are you a nootropic vendor or just an enthusiast?
#184
Posted 05 May 2014 - 02:06 PM
Metagene, do you by any chance have a stake in the game? Are you a nootropic vendor or just an enthusiast?
Pretty ironic that you accuse people who don't agree with you of being "vendors" , when yourself regularly come to this forum to promote your 100$ per hour "consultation" services ...
#185
Posted 05 May 2014 - 02:53 PM
Didn't accuse, just asked.
I link to my posts that are relevant.
My stake is out in the open, yet I have no stake in the game when it comes to piracetam.
I don't promote my services here.
#186
Posted 05 May 2014 - 10:17 PM
Where you get the OS matters. Plant polyphenols usually result in OS in tumors. I'm concerned about OS in the hypothalamus.
We know some people are getting brain fog and other side effects from piracetam. http://selfhacked.co...with-piracetam/
The question is why. SOMETHING is happening.
Brain fog is very likely a result of OS in the hypothalamus (support for my theory: http://selfhacked.co...e-of-brain-fog/ - read whole post).
Piracetam causes brain fog in some people.
A study finds piracetam increases OS in the hypothalamus - I bet they weren't expecting that; they probably wanted to show that it's protective.
We can't know if this is the case in healthy people. Perhaps only susceptible people with autoimmune disorders of the brain, but I think that's unlikely.
It's therefore highly plausible that the reason piracetam causes brain fog is because of OS in the hypothalamus, at least for a portion of the population. I would surmise that this happens in healthy people as well, but we can disagree about that.
I'd like you to find any substance in my toolkit that increases OS IN THE HYPOTHALAMUS. http://selfhacked.com/my-regimen/
That would interest me.
Metagene, do you by any chance have a stake in the game? Are you a nootropic vendor or just an enthusiast?
No I'm not a nootropic vendor and to call me a enthusiast would be generous.
Here the complete study guys.
This is not applicable to healthy conditions!
Yes vinpocetine and piracetam could have pro-oxidant properties at higher doses but this quote is devoid of context and misleading:
MDA[a marker for oxidative stress]…. increased in cortex and hippocampus and in cortex, hypothalamus and striatum by the higher dose of vinpocetine or piracetam, respectively along with decreased TAC (total antioxidant capacity)….at their high concentration, these drugs exhibit pro-oxidant properties and increase free radical production or act as a free radical…
Edited by Metagene, 05 May 2014 - 10:19 PM.
#187
Posted 13 August 2014 - 02:23 AM
Milk no longer does a body good. Seems like anyone who stops drinking milk for awhile becomes lactose intolerant. I used to drink tons of the stuff but can no longer handle it and I don't really think it is good for you. I'll have to look into the calcium thing though thats interesting. I wonder if it would restore the magic.
Have a salad and sprinkle some piracetam in your non-dairy dressing?
1 cup of spinach = 30mg calcium
1 cup of kale = 137mg calcium
A salad with a mix of veggies would add up pretty fast and maybe you could avoid the "nasty" taste of piracetam.
#188
Posted 06 October 2014 - 06:31 PM
Hello,
I received Nootropics piracetam on Friday. Today is Monday.
I had taken 1 pill (800mg) when I first received them and skipped the weekend and had taken another this morning. I take no other suppliments besides B-12 in the morning and all weekend including today I have been experiencing the "brain fog" and nausea that I've been reading about. I am a bit disappointed as I was hoping to get the edge on training that I have to take for work... So maybe I am one of the few that experience side effects on this. I am ok with dealing with the fact that I cant take it anymore and that I lost out on the money. What scares me is that I've been reading about people still having the brain the fog over month after they stopped taking it. I do not want this to be my new way of life as I dont like this feeling. I will be getting rid of the bottle obviously but has anyone here had the brain fog and was able to have it go away? This makes me nervous and I've been useless all day at work. I just want to be normal again.
Taken: 1 x 800mg pill Friday
and 1x 800mg pill on Monday
Doesn't seem like much at all and I thought maybe I was just run down as its that time of year people get sick. But I find it too close for comfort that as soon as I take this I find others having the same experience.
Any input?
#189
Posted 23 December 2014 - 03:44 AM
I'll describe my today's nootropic diet. I don't trust "Piracetam in powder" or "semibranded" drugs, so I buy mine brand named Geratam from UCB (yes, one of authors of Piracetam) on http://unleashedbrain.com (thanks guys, speedy and quality). Well. My weight is 181 pound (82kg) and now I take 3x1200 2 times a day + B group multivitamin + 3 eggs a day (with Amish's milk). Results: I test my short memory every week last 3 month (a lot of tests in the Internet) and found that my "short memory range" is increasing like 10-20% a week. First 2 weeks got 0 result, then ~80% leap and now as I said ~15% a week. So I can recommend to take brand named Piracetam (Geratam actually the same) in that dosage and do not expect big magic in first couple weeks. Just wait a bit.
Edited by PierreD, 23 December 2014 - 03:45 AM.
#190
Posted 23 December 2014 - 10:50 AM
We know some people are getting brain fog and other side effects from piracetam. http://selfhacked.co...with-piracetam/
The question is why. SOMETHING is happening.
Brain fog is very likely a result of OS in the hypothalamus (support for my theory: http://selfhacked.co...e-of-brain-fog/ - read whole post).
Piracetam causes brain fog in some people.
ROS induce cFos. cFos causes brain fog through its effects on ChAT, VAChT, and AChE genes (-, -, +).
ACh overload induces cFos. cFos causes brain fog through its effects on ChAT, VAChT, and AChE genes (-, -, +).
You don't have to have ROS in the brain to generate ROS-like brain fog. Could be through piracetam's cholinergic activity (or, hell, even through increased ACh turnover leading to depletion).
#191
Posted 23 December 2014 - 05:39 PM
We know some people are getting brain fog and other side effects from piracetam. http://selfhacked.co...with-piracetam/
The question is why. SOMETHING is happening.
Brain fog is very likely a result of OS in the hypothalamus (support for my theory: http://selfhacked.co...e-of-brain-fog/ - read whole post).
Piracetam causes brain fog in some people.
ROS induce cFos. cFos causes brain fog through its effects on ChAT, VAChT, and AChE genes (-, -, +).
ACh overload induces cFos. cFos causes brain fog through its effects on ChAT, VAChT, and AChE genes (-, -, +).
You don't have to have ROS in the brain to generate ROS-like brain fog. Could be through piracetam's cholinergic activity (or, hell, even through increased ACh turnover leading to depletion).
That's a very interesting theory and I would probably believe it if not for my own experiments. I can't say some of the brain fog cases aren't as a result of the cholinergic mechanism, but what I can say is that I've induced cognitive dysfunction in myself from taking too high of a dosage of an acetylcholinesterase inhibitor. The effects are very different than piracetam-induced brain fog. So I am inclined to not think that this is the mechanism.
To others: I've tried a few different brands, including the most reliable ones. Same effect.
If you do well with piracetam, then you're welcome to continue taking it, but if you don't or don't notice an effect then stop. This is my philosophy with all supplements/drugs that don't have a large amount of clinical evidence in its favor.
Since people are generally anonymous on this website, you don't know who is or isn't a vendor/seller. Don't let anyone convince you of continuing anything that doesn't work for you.
Edited by Joe Cohen, 23 December 2014 - 05:41 PM.
#192
Posted 23 December 2014 - 05:51 PM
Where you get the OS matters. Plant polyphenols usually result in OS in tumors. I'm concerned about OS in the hypothalamus.
We know some people are getting brain fog and other side effects from piracetam. http://selfhacked.co...with-piracetam/
The question is why. SOMETHING is happening.
Brain fog is very likely a result of OS in the hypothalamus (support for my theory: http://selfhacked.co...e-of-brain-fog/ - read whole post).
Piracetam causes brain fog in some people.
A study finds piracetam increases OS in the hypothalamus - I bet they weren't expecting that; they probably wanted to show that it's protective.
We can't know if this is the case in healthy people. Perhaps only susceptible people with autoimmune disorders of the brain, but I think that's unlikely.
It's therefore highly plausible that the reason piracetam causes brain fog is because of OS in the hypothalamus, at least for a portion of the population. I would surmise that this happens in healthy people as well, but we can disagree about that.
I'd like you to find any substance in my toolkit that increases OS IN THE HYPOTHALAMUS. http://selfhacked.com/my-regimen/
That would interest me.
Metagene, do you by any chance have a stake in the game? Are you a nootropic vendor or just an enthusiast?
No I'm not a nootropic vendor and to call me a enthusiast would be generous.
Here the complete study guys.
https://drive.google...dit?usp=sharingIn summary, findings in the present study indicates thatdemyelination due to the local injection of ethidium bromideinto the rat brain is associated with increased oxidativestress. The study suggests an antioxidant effect for thenootropic drugs vinpocetine and piracetam at low doses. Incontrast, the higher doses were associated with an increasein oxidative stress, though both drugs offered significantprotection against GSH depletion induced by ethidiumbromide. The clinical significance of these findings needsto be determined.
This is not applicable to healthy conditions!
"Here we define oxidative stress as the rateat which oxidative damage is generated. Implicit in thisdefinition is that oxidative stress is a continuous variable thatis unlikely to ever be exactly zero since pro-oxidants arecontinually produced and some oxidative damage is alwaysgenerated."
Yes vinpocetine and piracetam could have pro-oxidant properties at higher doses but this quote is devoid of context and misleading:
MDA[a marker for oxidative stress]…. increased in cortex and hippocampus and in cortex, hypothalamus and striatum by the higher dose of vinpocetine or piracetam, respectively along with decreased TAC (total antioxidant capacity)….at their high concentration, these drugs exhibit pro-oxidant properties and increase free radical production or act as a free radical…
To simply conclude "Piracetam causes oxidative stress in the hypothalamus" is ridiculous.
My conclusion: in susceptible people, a high dosage of piracetam could conceivably cause oxidative stress, which would explain the abnormally high case reports of brain fog from piracetam. This is just a theory. I've gotten brain fog from it and I've tried almost every supplement and haven't gotten BF from them (a few exceptions). However, there's more brain fog case reports on racetams than any other supplement I've seen.
If racetams work well for you, then it could make sense for you to continue it. Just pay attention to any symptoms that may arise (see post Piracetam, Aniracetam and Noopept Dangers and Risks (And Other Racetams)).
Edited by Joe Cohen, 23 December 2014 - 06:09 PM.
#193
Posted 24 December 2014 - 01:42 AM
Well, I wouldn't go so far as to call it a theory ... more of a hypothesis. As I'm not eager to fry my brain again after finally getting it working decently, could you elaborate a little on the difference you experienced between the two? Is ROS-induced fog more of a sleepy / fatigued type feeling, or what?That's a very interesting theory and I would probably believe it if not for my own experiments. I can't say some of the brain fog cases aren't as a result of the cholinergic mechanism, but what I can say is that I've induced cognitive dysfunction in myself from taking too high of a dosage of an acetylcholinesterase inhibitor. The effects are very different than piracetam-induced brain fog. So I am inclined to not think that this is the mechanism.
#194
Posted 24 December 2014 - 03:56 PM
I think the greater number of individuals who frequent this forum vaule safetyThat's a very interesting theory and I would probably believe it if not for my own experiments. I can't say some of the brain fog cases aren't as a result of the cholinergic mechanism, but what I can say is that I've induced cognitive dysfunction in myself from taking too high of a dosage of an acetylcholinesterase inhibitor. The effects are very different than piracetam-induced brain fog. So I am inclined to not think that this is the mechanism.
ROS induce cFos. cFos causes brain fog through its effects on ChAT, VAChT, and AChE genes (-, -, +).We know some people are getting brain fog and other side effects from piracetam. http://selfhacked.co...with-piracetam/
The question is why. SOMETHING is happening.
Brain fog is very likely a result of OS in the hypothalamus (support for my theory: http://selfhacked.co...e-of-brain-fog/ - read whole post).
Piracetam causes brain fog in some people.
ACh overload induces cFos. cFos causes brain fog through its effects on ChAT, VAChT, and AChE genes (-, -, +).
You don't have to have ROS in the brain to generate ROS-like brain fog. Could be through piracetam's cholinergic activity (or, hell, even through increased ACh turnover leading to depletion).
To others: I've tried a few different brands, including the most reliable ones. Same effect.
If you do well with piracetam, then you're welcome to continue taking it, but if you don't or don't notice an effect then stop. This is my philosophy with all supplements/drugs that don't have a large amount of clinical evidence in its favor.
Since people are generally anonymous on this website, you don't know who is or isn't a vendor/seller. Don't let anyone convince you of continuing anything that doesn't work for you.
and willingly take personal responsibility for their actions. Accurate, unbiased information is absolutely required but please understand its not always advantageous to scream fire even if you see one. I would generate a similar response by creating a thread that highlights a danger of another well regarded substance then prefacing my opening salvo with "STOP THE __________ MADNESS!" good intentions notwithstanding.
Edited by Metagene, 24 December 2014 - 04:28 PM.
#195
Posted 24 December 2014 - 10:18 PM
Piracetam Ameliorated Oxygen and Glucose Deprivation-Induced Injury in Rat Cortical Neurons Via Inhibition of Oxidative Stress, Excitatory Amino Acids Release and P53/Bax
https://docs.google....sp=docslist_api
#196
Posted 19 January 2015 - 09:28 AM
I'd be interested for how long were they taking it in each of those studies
#197
Posted 08 March 2015 - 01:39 PM
Hey all,
I'll be trying ScienceGuy's recommendation starting with 4.8g Piracetam twice a day soon - wondering about possible reprecussions when done along with 30mg Noopept.
Thanks
#198
Posted 08 March 2015 - 07:01 PM
Edited by cylon, 08 March 2015 - 07:11 PM.
#199
Posted 16 June 2015 - 07:58 AM
I'll describe my today's nootropic diet. I don't trust "Piracetam in powder" or "semibranded" drugs, so I buy mine brand named Geratam from UCB (yes, one of authors of Piracetam) on http://unleashedbrain.com (thanks guys, speedy and quality). Well. My weight is 181 pound (82kg) and now I take 3x1200 2 times a day + B group multivitamin + 3 eggs a day (with Amish's milk). Results: I test my short memory every week last 3 month (a lot of tests in the Internet) and found that my "short memory range" is increasing like 10-20% a week. First 2 weeks got 0 result, then ~80% leap and now as I said ~15% a week. So I can recommend to take brand named Piracetam (Geratam actually the same) in that dosage and do not expect big magic in first couple weeks. Just wait a bit.
Do you take it on an empty stomach with alot of water? I'm new to Piracetam... get different answers on the net. It seems to be water solubale so it should be empty stomach, correct?
Is there some kind of vitamin I also should take, and if, why ?
Thx for the link to a good brand.
#200
Posted 26 June 2015 - 04:49 PM
15 dollars for piracetam is a bit much considering you can get it for 3€ from a czech pharmacy. But then again theres shipping to the US which would be way too much.
#201
Posted 17 February 2016 - 01:50 PM
I have a question.
I have available to me Lucetam (Piracetam) with 1200 mg for each pill.
So that would mean I'd have to take 4 pills a day, correct? That would reach 4.8 mg.
What should I combine this with? Is Alpha GPC Choline a good choice? If so, what should be the proportions?
Can I combine with coffee (caffeine)?
Can I use this long term?
Also, maybe I did not understand correctly, but may OP could have meant that one should take 4.8 grams per DOSE (4 tablets) and do that 2-3 times a day?
That would mean to take about 12 tablets a day and would eat through the bottle pretty quickly. Doesn't really make sense. The biggest concentration for Lucetam is 1200 mg per pill.
Edited by yanli, 17 February 2016 - 01:52 PM.
#202
Posted 17 May 2017 - 01:19 AM
Hello, relative newbie here. I ordered home some Piracetam for the exams. Tried the high dosage, but after the initial 4.8 grams (6 pills of 800 mg right? I can be so dense on measurements) i felt woozy and tired. I read caffeine can kickstart it, so tried an energy drink. Made me more tired. My question basically is if i should continue tomorrow?
PS. Sorry i just realised this is a bit of an old post.
Appreciate any inputs. Thank you
#203
Posted 20 May 2017 - 10:32 AM
Piracetam seems interesting but it's not natural it is? Does it interfere with CBD? Also is $10 for 800 mg 120 caps a good deal?
#204
Posted 20 May 2017 - 02:43 PM
Hello, relative newbie here. I ordered home some Piracetam for the exams. Tried the high dosage, but after the initial 4.8 grams (6 pills of 800 mg right? I can be so dense on measurements) i felt woozy and tired. I read caffeine can kickstart it, so tried an energy drink. Made me more tired. My question basically is if i should continue tomorrow?
PS. Sorry i just realised this is a bit of an old post.
Appreciate any inputs. Thank you
I would try and taper up until you find that point where you are getting positive benefit and stay there. Beyond that, and it may be diminishing returns for increasing expense. However, everyone is different, and that is something you will have to determine for yourself over a period of time. Start with 800mg daily for one week. Then move to two 800mg capsules the second week. Split the doses between morning and afternoon if/when you move to multiple doses. I'm unsure if it should be with or without food, but the general consensus seems to be on an empty stomach. Currently, I don't even use capsules anymore but use straight powder: 5g upon waking, 5g mid-morning, and 5g mid-afternoon. It's a subtle effect, so don't expect it to blow your socks off... but start low and slow.
#205
Posted 21 May 2017 - 06:57 PM
i'd have to agree the cholinergic effects are whats causing the reports of brain fog and low mood. i think we can rule out glutamatic damage below 4.8g, except maybe in the most sensitive people. i'm not sure how well-invested i am into the whole 'choline depletion' theory per se, but something is certainly going on at the choline sites.
in particular of choline, it's the M1 and M2 sites. these sites are nearly completely lost in alzheimer's disease, and this could explain much of the luster and pizazz behind piracetam's anti-dementia effect. interestingly enough, the outer layers of the cortex which assist in language recall may be less saturated in M1 and M2 sites than the more evolved, highly saturated frontal lobe which controls moreso mood and higher order cognitive functions. then what happens at high does of piracetam is the language centers and outer cortex are attuned just right (as is often reported in the literature) while the frontal lobe experiences a tremendous and overwhellming surge in cholinergic activity. so it short-circuits with the accompanying brain fog and low mood and suddenly you're in no shape to take a university exam. but somehow amidst everything your verbal fluency is still on point. well now we have one potential explanation for why that is. and those seeking to improve their word recall without having their attention span reduced to that of a squirrel's, you might take refuge in bacopa with its more sustainable serotonergic qualities. i might even consider it sustainable alongside a 800mg booster of piracetam. sustainable at least compared with what sciguy was recommending..
yeah, oh. 800mg. though i havent touched piracetam in, what, 6 years, my memory is still good enough to attest to the convenience of the 800mg "micro" dose. in fact, any experience over 2400mg invoked for me a vague semblance, perhaps, of the amanita mushroom, e.g. brainfog / fugue. not at all surprising if you've just read about how piracetam is muscarinic.
to the guy asking about taking piracetam and caffeine when he feels woozy, no stop taking it. that's utter dogshit. i would dial in around 800-1600 and not take anything else alongside it. just feel it out on its own. the guy above me recommending a taper week-by-week may be onto something.. tho i don't want to taint your expectations, i wouldn't hold my hopes out too high on the racetams. many would call them a misadventure on their quest for heath. something that everyone in the community recommended because everyone else was sort of recommending it and it looked good on paper
#206
Posted 22 May 2017 - 07:31 AM
Piracetam could've been the perfect nootropic weren't it for the fact that it completly messes up your sleep. First day on is great, second also good then it just spirals downwards...
#207
Posted 31 May 2017 - 02:07 PM
Piracetam dosage range: 50-300mg/kg/d (up to 21 g/d per 70kg person)
Source: Piracetam and Piracetam-Like Drugs, Andrei G. Malykh and M. Reza Sadaie
#208
Posted 30 August 2017 - 10:39 PM
Another thing is that nootropic efficacy is being extrapolated in large part from studies involving neurological disorders. Just because 24g per day was the effective dose for treatment of myoclonus (epilepsy), doesn't automatically mean that 24g's is the most effective treatment for cognitive enhancement in a healthy individual.
You are absolutely correct. However, this particular study does demonstrate that it is perfect safe to take PIRACETAM at a dosage of 24g; however, please kindly note that I am not suggesting that everyone should start taking 24g PIRACETAM daily. My recommended dosage is 4.8 grams 2 - 3 times daily. However, if people wish to experiment with higher doses they can do so with the knowledge that it is perfectly SAFE
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#209
Posted 30 August 2017 - 11:02 PM
4,8 grams 2 - 3 times a day for nootropic purposes is just nuts. And idiotic. No wonder people are getting some serious side effects.
#210
Posted 08 February 2019 - 03:56 AM
Are you really willing to state that it is safe based on short trials and low dose longer term use? 24g daily for 10, 20, 50+ years with no adverse effects? Are you personally willing to be liable if it turns out that you are wrong?
Disregarding or ignoring long term safety of something you plan to take long term in high doses when only low doses have been seen to have a safe profile over the medium term seem reckless to me. Advising others to follow suit looks like a future law suite.
There have been several long term studies to date the longest has been 7 years without any meaningful side effects.
4,8 grams 2 - 3 times a day for nootropic purposes is just nuts. And idiotic. No wonder people are getting some serious side effects.
Taking the clinically studied doses is nuts? As oppose to taking doses outside of the studies is sane? Your statement is ridiculous.
Also tagged with one or more of these keywords: piracetam, racetam, memory, nootropic, cognitive, cognition, learning, pramiracetam, oxiracetam, aniracetam
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