469 replies to this topic

[ScienceGuy]

I thought I'd share that whilst waiting impatiently for my FREE FORM L-GLUTAMIC ACID to arrive I tried adding precisely 10mg MSG to my dailly NOOTROPIC stack.

Suffice to say, I reacted badly to it; and hence it appears that I fall within the group of individuals who are "sensitive to MSG".

It will be very interesting to see how I react to the L-GLUTAMIC ACID

EDIT: Hyperspace has been shown to be a fraud which would indicate that his study is also fake; as such I recommend that everyone completely ignore all information contained within all Hyperspace's study reports and posts, and do NOT take any additional L-GLUTAMIC ACID or GLUTAMATE. The dosage L-GLUTAMIC ACID / GLUTAMATE recommended by Hyperspace was 10 - 100mg; and whilst this would not in any regard likely to be harmful to one's health, L-GLUTAMIC ACID and GLUTAMATE are EXCITOTOXINS and hence supplementing with them is NOT recommended.

Edited by ScienceGuy, 17 March 2012 - 01:59 PM.

[Elus]

Thanks so much for your reply!!
I did a sneak edit to my last post with a fifth question but I'll just ask it separately here: How much better did the piracetam group fare vs the control on the cognitive exam?

Edited by Elus, 22 February 2012 - 08:59 PM.

[Hyperspace21]

Thanks so much for your reply!!
I did a sneak edit to my last post with a fifth question but I'll just ask it separately here: How much better did the piracetam group fare vs the control on the cognitive exam?

I can't give results for specific individuals but on average the difference in there performance was about 23%. The subjects that took piracetam in the first clinical trial had their cognitive ability increased by over 48%, in the second trial all the volunteers had taken piracetam without knowing about it. There cognitive performance varied.The second set did the best with a 32% increase in cognitive ability followed by the 1st set who experienced only a 9% increase in cognitive ability.

Edited by Hyperspace21, 22 February 2012 - 09:41 PM.

[health_nutty]

I thought I'd share that whilst waiting impatiently for my FREE FORM L-GLUTAMIC ACID to arrive I tried adding precisely 10mg MSG to my dailly NOOTROPIC stack.

Suffice to say, I reacted badly to it; and hence it appears that I fall within the group of individuals who are "sensitive to MSG".

It will be very interesting to see how I react to the L-GLUTAMIC ACID

I'm still confused about the MSG vs L-glutamic acid excitotoxicity issue. Does MSG have excitotoxicity issues at 10-100mg? Is L-glutamic acid safer or does it have the same issue but just at higher doses?

I bought some L-glutamic acid pills (500mg). I'm planning on breaking them into quarters and taking 1/4 every morning. Is this reasonable or do I need to dose twice a day?

[Hyperspace21]

I thought I'd share that whilst waiting impatiently for my FREE FORM L-GLUTAMIC ACID to arrive I tried adding precisely 10mg MSG to my dailly NOOTROPIC stack.

Suffice to say, I reacted badly to it; and hence it appears that I fall within the group of individuals who are "sensitive to MSG".

It will be very interesting to see how I react to the L-GLUTAMIC ACID

I'm still confused about the MSG vs L-glutamic acid excitotoxicity issue. Does MSG have excitotoxicity issues at 10-100mg? Is L-glutamic acid safer or does it have the same issue but just at higher doses?

I bought some L-glutamic acid pills (500mg). I'm planning on breaking them into quarters and taking 1/4 every morning. Is this reasonable or do I need to dose twice a day?

MSG above 150mg per day = excitotoxic for normal people
MSG does not have any known issues for excitotoxicity at 10mg - 100mg, but for sensitive people, the 10mg -100mg range can be a uncomfortable.Above it would cause sensitive people to react weirdly.

L-Glutamic Acid = safer supplement

DIviding into quarters is a good idea. You won't need to take another dose after the morning dose,
If you don't exercise or spend a lot of energy, you won't have to take another dose.
If you do exercise or spend a lot of energy; then you'll have to take 1/4th of a pill after the energy demanding activity which will be your second dose. Do Not consume any more pills after the second dose on that day.
Overall, glutamic acid till 500mg has been proven safe, but I recommend not going beyond 125mg per day unless you exercise and spend a lot of energy which would increase your daily dosage to 250mg per day at the most.

[health_nutty]

I thought I'd share that whilst waiting impatiently for my FREE FORM L-GLUTAMIC ACID to arrive I tried adding precisely 10mg MSG to my dailly NOOTROPIC stack.

Suffice to say, I reacted badly to it; and hence it appears that I fall within the group of individuals who are "sensitive to MSG".

It will be very interesting to see how I react to the L-GLUTAMIC ACID

I'm still confused about the MSG vs L-glutamic acid excitotoxicity issue. Does MSG have excitotoxicity issues at 10-100mg? Is L-glutamic acid safer or does it have the same issue but just at higher doses?

I bought some L-glutamic acid pills (500mg). I'm planning on breaking them into quarters and taking 1/4 every morning. Is this reasonable or do I need to dose twice a day?

MSG above 150mg per day = excitotoxic for normal people
MSG does not have any known issues for excitotoxicity at 10mg - 100mg, but for sensitive people, the 10mg -100mg range can be a uncomfortable.Above it would cause sensitive people to react weirdly.

L-Glutamic Acid = safer supplement

DIviding into quarters is a good idea. You won't need to take another dose after the morning dose,
If you don't exercise or spend a lot of energy, you won't have to take another dose.
If you do exercise or spend a lot of energy; then you'll have to take 1/4th of a pill after the energy demanding activity which will be your second dose. Do Not consume any more pills after the second dose on that day.
Overall, glutamic acid till 500mg has been proven safe, but I recommend not going beyond 125mg per day unless you exercise and spend a lot of energy which would increase your daily dosage to 250mg per day at the most.

Thanks a bunch, this is very clear. It also explains why piracetam made me so irritable (I exercise very intensly and I eat no processed foods, thus no MSG).

[Marzolone1]

Greetings All,

I am new to this forum and new to Piracetam...
I’m a 40 yr old male going to school... Nursing program.. very demanding! Looking for a brain enhancement to help boost memory or just plain old more alertness..
I’m am always researching herbal supplements, like the norm Gutu kola, ginseng, ginkgo etc…
Haven’t really taken any yet… but it’s on the list…
Seems there is a plethora of new so called “mind enhancers” on the market now with herbs like:

Acetyl-L-Carnitine (HCL) 500 mg
Ginkgo Biloba Extract 60 mg
Alpha-Lipoic Acid (ALA) 150 mg
Huperzine A (Huperzia serrata) 75 mcg
N-Acetyl-L-Cysteine (NAC) 300mg
Phosphatidyl Serine (soy) 50 mg
Vinpocetine 7.5mg
ETC..

I haven’t experimented with much yet… but I love the thought of finding that stack to boost memory, cognition, using more of your brain… guess I’m looking to be smarter.. LOL who doesn’t right!

Anyway, long and short of it..
I did purchase a bottle of Piracetam 800mg capsules, from Nutrivene
Started on only 800mg because I didn’t know what to expect,
I can say it was pretty good. I felt light footed, and things seemed brighter I felt brighter.. Of course there is the placebo effect, too much Hype out there for most products..
Day two 800 mg same thing even better
Day 3 1600 mg, now I’m noticing I can remember things, I’m recalling information.. I have a ton of energy.. I can totally focus in Biology lecutures.. Like euphoric feeling... Hell man I will get thru this nursing program no prob…

Day 4 1600 mg I start getting headache so I buy phosphatidylcholine.. take like 1600 mg with 1600 of Pira..
Then my euphoria putters out.. I’m feeling just Exhausted
Next two days I just want to SLEEP not sure if my body just gave out or what cause I was up studying alot… I had a huge bio exam so I had to drink tons of coffee to keep me going..
Total bummer.. I want that feeling back from day 1 &2
What did I do wrong?

I take a multi, some B vitamins; take fish oil from time to time….

I'm also on Cymbalta 30 mg p/day for like 3 years…

Anyway, I’ve been researching NADH supplements too………….
I ordered powdered mix drink called Neuro1 from nutrition53 that people claim is awesome..
But haven’t gotten it yet…

So………………………… any suggestions?
I don’t really want to be a chemist like some of these guys in the forum.. Just want a few good products that work

Thanks
And GREAT information… so glad these forums exist..

[unregistered_user]

Greetings All,

I am new to this forum and new to Piracetam...
I’m a 40 yr old male going to school... Nursing program.. very demanding! Looking for a brain enhancement to help boost memory or just plain old more alertness..
I’m am always researching herbal supplements, like the norm Gutu kola, ginseng, ginkgo etc…
Haven’t really taken any yet… but it’s on the list…
Seems there is a plethora of new so called “mind enhancers” on the market now with herbs like:

Acetyl-L-Carnitine (HCL) 500 mg
Ginkgo Biloba Extract 60 mg
Alpha-Lipoic Acid (ALA) 150 mg
Huperzine A (Huperzia serrata) 75 mcg
N-Acetyl-L-Cysteine (NAC) 300mg
Phosphatidyl Serine (soy) 50 mg
Vinpocetine 7.5mg
ETC..

I haven’t experimented with much yet… but I love the thought of finding that stack to boost memory, cognition, using more of your brain… guess I’m looking to be smarter.. LOL who doesn’t right!

Anyway, long and short of it..
I did purchase a bottle of Piracetam 800mg capsules, from Nutrivene
Started on only 800mg because I didn’t know what to expect,
I can say it was pretty good. I felt light footed, and things seemed brighter I felt brighter.. Of course there is the placebo effect, too much Hype out there for most products..
Day two 800 mg same thing even better
Day 3 1600 mg, now I’m noticing I can remember things, I’m recalling information.. I have a ton of energy.. I can totally focus in Biology lecutures.. Like euphoric feeling... Hell man I will get thru this nursing program no prob…

Day 4 1600 mg I start getting headache so I buy phosphatidylcholine.. take like 1600 mg with 1600 of Pira..
Then my euphoria putters out.. I’m feeling just Exhausted
Next two days I just want to SLEEP not sure if my body just gave out or what cause I was up studying alot… I had a huge bio exam so I had to drink tons of coffee to keep me going..
Total bummer.. I want that feeling back from day 1 &2
What did I do wrong?

I take a multi, some B vitamins; take fish oil from time to time….

You are likely experiencing a common reaction to ongoing Piracetam usage wherein the perceived efficacy begins to disappear as time goes on. You'll find a large amount of discussion across the internet on this very matter; how to regain the original effects felt during the first few days/weeks of Piracetam usage.

Keep in mind, you are taking what would be considered a relatively small dose. For cost effectiveness, I would recommend purchasing Piracetam in bulk powder rather than individual caps. This gives you greater flexibility for titrating your doses and works out to being a better value. A good supplier of Piracetam is Cerebral Health, if I remember right 1kg can be had for around $70.

The headaches *might* be due to a lack of adequate choline supplementation in your diet. Many users insist a good choline donor is necessary for experiencing the full potential of Piracetam's effects while alleviating side-effects... however another school of thought exists, one that says supplementing choline simply isn't necessary. This whole process of experimenting with various substances is so individualistic that trial and error and process of elimination are requisites to refining a stack that works well for you.

Browsing these forums would have you believe that a laundry list of substances is necessary for finding a truly effective stack but my advice to you is: KEEP IT SIMPLE. Reduce your stack to as few substances as necessary before it becomes superfluous.

Also, you are early into your Piracetam experimentation so don't be so quick to conclude that it is no longer effective. Results tend to come over a period of time.

The fish oil should remain a staple in your line-up. For me, this is one of the few supplements I will continually take. The Kirkland brand of fish oil gets good reviews from Consumer Labs and can be had for cheap.

Good luck.

Edited by semi-retarded-individual, 23 February 2012 - 04:40 AM.

[unregistered_user]

Also, just out of curiosity where in MI are you from? I grew up in Grand Rapids/Muskegon.

[manic_racetam]

2. Our volunteers all took 4800mg of Piracetam per dose. (9.6 grams per day), 4.8g is the ideal piracetam dosage.

Why is it a blanket dose of 4.8g's regardless of bodyweight? This sounds really familiar to the 60mcg MB blanket dose that never really made much sense.....

[Hyperspace21]

2. Our volunteers all took 4800mg of Piracetam per dose. (9.6 grams per day), 4.8g is the ideal piracetam dosage.

Why is it a blanket dose of 4.8g's regardless of bodyweight? This sounds really familiar to the 60mcg MB blanket dose that never really made much sense.....

Bodyweight is usually taken into account when piracetam (or any other drug) is given individually, but, when you take the dosage results of multiple people (with varying weights) , then the average dosage is always around 4.8g.

Another reason why 4.8g of piracetam is used is because, it is the dosage amount that gives the most stable and effective results compared to other dosages.(Proved through an EEG test)

We gave everyone the same dosage so that there was no chance for varying reactions to occur. We first tested all volunteers for piracetam sensitivity, and other factors which could cause complications during their clinical trials. This was tested during the preliminary clinical trial tests.

When taking piracetam individually, people should start at 4.8 grams and go downwards in their dosage till they reach 800mg. If effects do not occur, then they could have calcium or glutamate deficiency (or both).

[vlipm0de]

Hey OP/everyone,

I am following this topic and iwas wondering if you could help me out with some diagnostics about taking racetams or any other nootropics.
Although you are not a doctor maybe you could

I have been diagnosed with ADD and most Counciousness-related drugs have a bad effect on me. (weed,speed,coffee,ritalin)
so iwas wondering if Piracetam or Aniracetame have any side effects that i should know about related to Counciousness.
Could you also give a summary for best practices with aniracetam...or do the same effects apply described earlier for paracetam
I want to start Either one but iam more gravitated by Aniracetam since people describe positive anti anxiety effects,do they also apply on Piracetam ?


My possible stack would be ,being male ,80-90 KG, Mixed complexion:

Modalert 200MG
Choline citrate < what is the right dosage for this?
Paracetam or Aniracetam 750MG
Vitamin D

Edited by vlipm0de, 23 February 2012 - 10:32 AM.

[Elus]

I just came back from my math exam. I wanted to try supplementing calcium (drank a small bottle of milk) + aniracetam while studying, as per your advice. I also took green tea, modafinil, and fish oil.

I can't really describe what happened on the test... it was like the calculus just came pouring from my fingertips. It was incredible. I felt in control. Will use again for studying for my next test.

Edited by Elus, 23 February 2012 - 02:43 PM.

[Hyperspace21]

Hey OP/everyone,

I am following this topic and iwas wondering if you could help me out with some diagnostics about taking racetams or any other nootropics.
Although you are not a doctor maybe you could

I have been diagnosed with ADD and most Counciousness-related drugs have a bad effect on me. (weed,speed,coffee,ritalin)
so iwas wondering if Piracetam or Aniracetame have any side effects that i should know about related to Counciousness.
Could you also give a summary for best practices with aniracetam...or do the same effects apply described earlier for paracetam
I want to start Either one but iam more gravitated by Aniracetam since people describe positive anti anxiety effects,do they also apply on Piracetam ?


My possible stack would be ,being male ,80-90 KG, Mixed complexion:

Modalert 200MG
Choline citrate < what is the right dosage for this?
Paracetam or Aniracetam 750MG
Vitamin D

Side effects of most racetams:

Mild headaches
Insomina
Drowsiness
Brain fog

Choline dosages should be taken as per your need. (you have to reflect on your diet and find out your daily choline intake an then decide based on that how much choline you would need to supplement).

Aniracetam follows the same practice for piracetam. Remember that aniracetam is fat soluble so you would have to take it with your food or milk that contains at fat. You can also take it with a few spoons of olive oil or fish oil.

I'd say start with piracetam for 2 weeks because your body would have to get used to the racetams. Then after 2-3 weeks start aniracetam to feel the effects.
Piracetam is cheaper than aniracetam so you'd save money if you start with piracetam and then go to aniracetam.

[Hyperspace21]

I just came back from my math exam. I wanted to try supplementing calcium (drank a small bottle of milk) + aniracetam while studying, as per your advice. I also took green tea, modafinil, and fish oil.

I can't really describe what happened on the test... it was like the calculus just came pouring from my fingertips. It was incredible. I felt in control. Will use again for studying for my next test.

Glad to know it worked for you!
Tea and fish oil actually work really well with piracetam.
Piracetam could've possibly amplified modafinil's effects.

studying with piracetam really helps.

[Marzolone1]

Greetings All,

I am new to this forum and new to Piracetam...
I’m a 40 yr old male going to school... Nursing program.. very demanding! Looking for a brain enhancement to help boost memory or just plain old more alertness..
I’m am always researching herbal supplements, like the norm Gutu kola, ginseng, ginkgo etc…
Haven’t really taken any yet… but it’s on the list…
Seems there is a plethora of new so called “mind enhancers” on the market now with herbs like:

Acetyl-L-Carnitine (HCL) 500 mg
Ginkgo Biloba Extract 60 mg
Alpha-Lipoic Acid (ALA) 150 mg
Huperzine A (Huperzia serrata) 75 mcg
N-Acetyl-L-Cysteine (NAC) 300mg
Phosphatidyl Serine (soy) 50 mg
Vinpocetine 7.5mg
ETC..

I haven’t experimented with much yet… but I love the thought of finding that stack to boost memory, cognition, using more of your brain… guess I’m looking to be smarter.. LOL who doesn’t right!

Anyway, long and short of it..
I did purchase a bottle of Piracetam 800mg capsules, from Nutrivene
Started on only 800mg because I didn’t know what to expect,
I can say it was pretty good. I felt light footed, and things seemed brighter I felt brighter.. Of course there is the placebo effect, too much Hype out there for most products..
Day two 800 mg same thing even better
Day 3 1600 mg, now I’m noticing I can remember things, I’m recalling information.. I have a ton of energy.. I can totally focus in Biology lecutures.. Like euphoric feeling... Hell man I will get thru this nursing program no prob…

Day 4 1600 mg I start getting headache so I buy phosphatidylcholine.. take like 1600 mg with 1600 of Pira..
Then my euphoria putters out.. I’m feeling just Exhausted
Next two days I just want to SLEEP not sure if my body just gave out or what cause I was up studying alot… I had a huge bio exam so I had to drink tons of coffee to keep me going..
Total bummer.. I want that feeling back from day 1 &2
What did I do wrong?

I take a multi, some B vitamins; take fish oil from time to time….

You are likely experiencing a common reaction to ongoing Piracetam usage wherein the perceived efficacy begins to disappear as time goes on. You'll find a large amount of discussion across the internet on this very matter; how to regain the original effects felt during the first few days/weeks of Piracetam usage.

Keep in mind, you are taking what would be considered a relatively small dose. For cost effectiveness, I would recommend purchasing Piracetam in bulk powder rather than individual caps. This gives you greater flexibility for titrating your doses and works out to being a better value. A good supplier of Piracetam is Cerebral Health, if I remember right 1kg can be had for around $70.

The headaches *might* be due to a lack of adequate choline supplementation in your diet. Many users insist a good choline donor is necessary for experiencing the full potential of Piracetam's effects while alleviating side-effects... however another school of thought exists, one that says supplementing choline simply isn't necessary. This whole process of experimenting with various substances is so individualistic that trial and error and process of elimination are requisites to refining a stack that works well for you.

Browsing these forums would have you believe that a laundry list of substances is necessary for finding a truly effective stack but my advice to you is: KEEP IT SIMPLE. Reduce your stack to as few substances as necessary before it becomes superfluous.

Also, you are early into your Piracetam experimentation so don't be so quick to conclude that it is no longer effective. Results tend to come over a period of time.

The fish oil should remain a staple in your line-up. For me, this is one of the few supplements I will continually take. The Kirkland brand of fish oil gets good reviews from Consumer Labs and can be had for cheap.

Good luck.

greetings SRI
I'm on the east side of mich... more towards Sterling Heights.. my Cuz is in GR, beautiful out there... really building up, nice college
thanks for the info, I'll keep reading thru posts...
but I stopeed Piracetam for now........... want to see if the headaches and fatigue go away.. I might just be coming down with a bad cold or something...
are racetams something you can take when you want? or basically once you start you should continue EVEN if you don't feel the effects...? do people just take it and find they are more clear minded only when they are at difficults tasks, such as work/school etc... and if you were to take intermit would one get headaches or go thru withdraw feelings on a normal basis?
thnx
M

[unregistered_user]

The headaches and fatigue are side effects that may go away with time. I have no doubt that if you experienced them from taking Piracetam, then stopping Piracetam consumption will also cause them to go away. The question is, will continued use of Piracetam eventually become more effective with fewer or no side effects? The only way to tell is to continue taking it.

Piracetam and the other racetams are generally incorporated into a daily regimen. Taking them PRN (as needed) might bring about some sort of effect but I think the idea is to take them regularly.

[vlipm0de]

Hi,
I have just ordered 500Grams of Piracetam and i was wondering what i should compliment it with for full effect...
I have also heard that you need to do something like synthesize it??? what does that mean?

Ihave so many questions

What are the top 5 nootropics?
Is it a noticable diffrence?<i ask because its just being sold on ebay...isnt it like some supplement rippoff that bodybuilders believe in taking?
Can somebody describe their life changing experiences

Edited by vlipm0de, 23 February 2012 - 04:11 PM.

[Hyperspace21]

Hi,
I have just ordered 500Grams of Piracetam and i was wondering what i should compliment it with for full effect...
I have also heard that you need to do something like synthesize it??? what does that mean?

Try taking piracteam on its own and see if it works.

If it doesn't work then supplement choline,calcium and glutamic acid individually.

Try to see which supplement works better for you.

If neither of them work then try taking these combinations:

Choline and calcium.
choline and glutamic acid.
or

Calcium and glutamic acid.

If none of the combinations work then take all 3 of them.

The supplements cause a SYNERGETIC effect meaning they work in conjunction with each other and compliment each others effects (amplify the effects).



The top 5 nootropics in my opinion are:
Noopept
Piracetam
Aniracetam
Oxiracetam
Modafinil

Try to buy from a reliable online store because resellers like ebay are not completely trustworthy, especially for consumables.

Piracetam or any other racetam for the fact is not like a magic pill.

It just increases focus and enhances mental clarity along with memory and acuity.
It is really good for bodybuilding (increases endurance) and studying.

My experience with this has been very fruitful.

I now enjoy having vivid dreams (when I take at night), have better memory, can work out longer because of increased endurance and motivation, learn new topics faster and socialize much more.

Edited by Hyperspace21, 23 February 2012 - 04:27 PM.

[nezxon]

Why is it a blanket dose of 4.8g's regardless of bodyweight? This sounds really familiar to the 60mcg MB blanket dose that never really made much sense

It seems likely to me that body weight plays a role. To convince me of a specific optimum dose, I'd need to see extremely detailed or peer-reviewed material. I'm not a stickler for peer reviewing, but in lieu of that I'd want raw data from multiple dose comparisons including a placebo. blood serum concentration levels, and time profiles. I think 4.8g is in the range of effective doses, but I think the best dose will vary from person to person, and that variance could be several grams.

[vlipm0de]

Hi,
I have just ordered 500Grams of Piracetam and i was wondering what i should compliment it with for full effect...
I have also heard that you need to do something like synthesize it??? what does that mean?

Try taking piracteam on its own and see if it works.

If it doesn't work then supplement choline,calcium and glutamic acid individually.

Try to see which supplement works better for you.

If neither of them work then try taking these combinations:

Choline and calcium.
choline and glutamic acid.
or

Calcium and glutamic acid.

If none of the combinations work then take all 3 of them.

The supplements cause a SYNERGETIC effect meaning they work in conjunction with each other and compliment each others effects (amplify the effects).



The top 5 nootropics in my opinion are:
Noopept
Piracetam
Aniracetam
Oxiracetam
Modafinil

Try to buy from a reliable online store because resellers like ebay are not completely trustworthy, especially for consumables.

Piracetam or any other racetam for the fact is not like a magic pill.

It just increases focus and enhances mental clarity along with memory and acuity.
It is really good for bodybuilding (increases endurance) and studying.

My experience with this has been very fruitful.

I now enjoy having vivid dreams (when I take at night), have better memory, can work out longer because of increased endurance and motivation, learn new topics faster and socialize much more.

What is Noopept?
Ive read its 1000x stronger than piracetam.

what are your effects vs piracetam?


GOTTA CATCH THEM ALL

[Hyperspace21]

What is Noopept?
Ive read its 1000x stronger than piracetam.

what are your effects vs piracetam?


GOTTA CATCH THEM ALL

Noopept is a new racetam derivative created in Russia.


It has the same effect as piracetam except I only require few milligrams (40mg-50mg) to experience its effects.

[vlipm0de]

I am guessing that more does not equal better with nootropics so does it even matter if its "1000x" stronger while its "0%" more efficient?

[Hyperspace21]

Why is it a blanket dose of 4.8g's regardless of bodyweight? This sounds really familiar to the 60mcg MB blanket dose that never really made much sense

It seems likely to me that body weight plays a role. To convince me of a specific optimum dose, I'd need to see extremely detailed or peer-reviewed material. I'm not a stickler for peer reviewing, but in lieu of that I'd want raw data from multiple dose comparisons including a placebo. blood serum concentration levels, and time profiles. I think 4.8g is in the range of effective doses, but I think the best dose will vary from person to person, and that variance could be several grams.

Yes, dosages do vary from person to person, 4.8 grams is like the average dosage amount for most people it's like the number '0' on the number line. You can determine the dose that suits you best from this starting point.

I'm really sorry but I can give you any raw data since it is illegal. It is illegal since the reports are owned by an institution and a the research has been conducted privately. Imagine doctors publishing and broadcasting their patients medical reports, people would complain and doctors would be sued. It's the same situation here.

Feel free to check published articles/data charts on the web about the 4.8g dosage of piracetam. Or check Science Guy's thread on why people should take a 4.8 gram piracetam dose.

Hope you understand the situation. Feel free to ask an questions that you may have.

Edited by manic_racetam, 01 March 2012 - 05:09 AM.

[Hyperspace21]

I am guessing that more does not equal better with nootropics so does it even matter if its "1000x" stronger while its "0%" more efficient?

That's absolutely correct. 1000x stronger only means that you'll have to take smaller amounts to achieve the same effects.

Some people don't like taking large quantities of a bitter chemical so they would choose a more potent one.

However some nootropics have some special functions such as aniracetam which really enhances acuity (it's more efficient than piracetam in terms of acuity enhancement).

[vlipm0de]

Thank you so much for answering all my questions
Where does SULBUTIAMINE fits in your list...its pretty recent , does any one have tried it?

[nezxon]

Yes, dosages do vary from person to person, 4.8 grams is like the average dosage amount for most people it's like the number '0' on the number line. You can determine the dose that suits you best from this starting point.

...

Feel free to check published articles/data charts on the web about the 4.8g dosage of piracetam. Or check Science Guy's thread on why people should take a 4.8 gram piracetam dose.

Hope you understand the situation. Feel free to ask an questions that you may have.

I do think 4.8 g can be effective but some information, experience, and a small group experiment (only 4 people) leads me to believe that 4.8 g may be too low to achieve some of the most beneficial support effects from Piracetam. As an example, this article http://www.ncbi.nlm..../pubmed/9459351 indicates that a minimum of 400 mg/kg was necessary to activate blood clot inhibiting effects of Piracetam. I'll take some time to collect up more articles and post again, but I've reviewed much material indicating 400 mg/kg in small mammals (e.g. 150-250 g rats, 24 g mice) was superior to lower doses (25 mg/kg, 50 mg/kg 100 mg/kg, 200 mg/kg). Things like improved oxygen consumption and blood flow, improved ATP, and blood clot inhibition. Although these properties may not be directly related to acetylcholine transport and memory formation, I think they're still important properties that affect cognition in even subtler ways.

400 mg/kg for a rat allometrically scaled for an average 70 kg human is 6 g. Although the average body weight in the US and the UK is higher than the "ideal" average so 85 kg is closer which would indicate a 7 g dose may actually be a better dose for the "truly" average American or Brit. To reiterate, I think 4.8 g is in the effective range, but I really do think a higher dose may be necessary to gain the full range of benefits. I currently take 9.6 g twice daily.

Edited by manic_racetam, 01 March 2012 - 05:10 AM.

[Tomas E]

Would it not be better to start at a half dosage of 4.8g, and go from there insted of hitting 4.8, maybe you respond as well on only the half dosage, everyone has their own sweet spot, then again I weigh in at 95kg.

[ScienceGuy]

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Edited by ScienceGuy, 17 March 2012 - 02:00 PM.

[ScienceGuy]

2. Our volunteers all took 4800mg of Piracetam per dose. (9.6 grams per day), 4.8g is the ideal piracetam dosage.

Why is it a blanket dose of 4.8g's regardless of bodyweight? This sounds really familiar to the 60mcg MB blanket dose that never really made much sense.....

Great question!

In short, IMO the 4.8g dose for PIRACETAM is not in fact regardless of bodyweight, in that it is the dosage for individuals of average weight; and as such it would indeed make logical sense for heavier individuals to take an appropriately higher dosage