469 replies to this topic

[health_nutty]

Glutamic acid really change my life for Piracetam efficiency .

Appreciated your contribution ,Hyperspace21 .

My concentration really improve ,verbal much more lucid that i never experience from Piracetam almost 2 years .

L-glutamic acid had a profound effect on me as well. It complete removed the irritability and increased the effectiveness of Piracetam. It was a great idea even if he wasn't involved in any real research.

My guess is he found got some ideas researching the internet and it worked really well for him, Then, he got excited and wanted others to listen to him...

[Justchill]

Is L-glutamic acid the same as L-glutamine?
Anybody has a link to a product? What are dosages?

[owtsgmi]

Is L-glutamic acid the same as L-glutamine?
Anybody has a link to a product? What are dosages?

I haven't supplemented with Glutamic Acid (except in foods as the salt form MSG), but I have taken both Pyroglutamic Acid (also called pyroglutamate and L-pyroglutamic acid) and L-Glutamine and finally settled on L-Glutamine 1000mg x 2 (adjunct to the 800mg piracetam x 2). I did get positive effects from Pyroglutamic Acid too, but I think it is too similar to piracetam so it messed up my efforts to find a balanced piracetam dose. I think with piracetam the key is finding a balance in your brain that creates neither brain fog or over-stimulation. It takes a lot of trial and error, but once (if) you find it stick with it.

Edit: To better answer your question, I just read that:

L-glutamine is decomposed to L-Glutamic acid (also L-Glutamate) and ammonia, and reversibly is synthesized from L-Glutamic acid and ammonia.

health_nutty - can you share which type of Glutamic Acid you are taking? TIA

Edited by owtsgmi, 23 March 2012 - 06:14 PM.

[health_nutty]

I'm taking Solgar's L-glutamic acid. MSG works equally well as L-glutamic acid. For what it is worth, I've tried L-glutamine and it was not helpful.

[cat@]

I'm taking Solgar's L-glutamic acid. MSG works equally well as L-glutamic acid. For what it is worth, I've tried L-glutamine and it was not helpful.

How much L-glutamic acid to Piracetam are you taking?

Hyperspace stated quite low measurements compared to the 1000mg+ some have mentioned.

Hyperspace: using this incremental and elimination process we gave everyone the right amount of glutamate until we reached 100mg.(beyond this everyone exhibited signs of too much glutamate or hyper-sensitivity).

[Sir Chugalot]

Edit: To better answer your question, I just read that:

L-glutamine is decomposed to L-Glutamic acid (also L-Glutamate) and ammonia, and reversibly is synthesized from L-Glutamic acid and ammonia.

I find this fascinating, as almost by accident only this week I've found taking Ornithine knocks any Piracetam related insomnia i have dead.

I could have just 1g in the morning and I'd still struggle to get more than 4 hours sleep.

Could it be that people who suffer from insomnia with pira have too much Ammonia in their system? Being a bit of a layman, I'd appreciate anyone's input

http://www.livestron...-glutamic-acid/

[health_nutty]

I'm taking Solgar's L-glutamic acid. MSG works equally well as L-glutamic acid. For what it is worth, I've tried L-glutamine and it was not helpful.

How much L-glutamic acid to Piracetam are you taking?

Hyperspace stated quite low measurements compared to the 1000mg+ some have mentioned.

Hyperspace: using this incremental and elimination process we gave everyone the right amount of glutamate until we reached 100mg.(beyond this everyone exhibited signs of too much glutamate or hyper-sensitivity).

I'm taking 125mg twice a day to elminate Piracetam irritibility. I've tried more and I didn't notice any hypersensitivity, but i didn't notice any additional benefits either.

[Shay]

I've been trying out this larger (for me) Piracetam dosage per the original recommendations, but with out L-glutamic acid or calcium. The effects were very impressive to say the least for about 2 weeks. On a hunch, I checked the breakdown of the whey supplement I use in the mornings. The quantity of l-glutamic acid is far in excess of the tiny mg quantities being discussed here. So far, I've been using whey in the mornings for about 4 months and only feeling benefits. Let me add one more point though - as of yesterday and today, I'm having noticeable brain fog and I assume it's from the piracetam as it's my only nootropic and I've experienced this in years past. See below for the back label info from my whey:


Typical Amino Acid Profile
Per 23 g Serving Essential Amino Acids Isoleucine (BCAA) 1.09 g Leucine (BCAA) 1.82 g Valine (BCAA) 1.02 g Phenylalanine 0.61 g Methionine 0.44 g Lysine 1.51 g Tryptophan 0.42 g Threonine 1.23 g Arginine (semi-essential) 0.42 g Histidine (semi-essential) 0.33 g Non-Essential Amino Acids Alanine 0.88 g Aspartic Acid 2.37 g Cysteine 0.51 g Glutamine + Glutamic Acid 3.24g Glycine 0.33 g Proline 1.05 g Serine 0.88 g Tyrosine 0.54 g

Edited by Shay, 26 March 2012 - 04:37 PM.

[Shay]

In fact, today, I'd call piracetam a dumb drug.

[health_nutty]

In my experience I get brain fog, or a spacey feeling if I"m lacking ACh. It always clears up with a pill or two of choline bitartate.

[Shay]

Well, I zipped over the GNC and picked some up. It worked and it worked very well! I'd previously had poor experiences with both piracetam and CDP choline, but I'm happy to follow a "wait and see" approach given that the bitartate clears everything up so quickly.

Thanks

Edited by Shay, 26 March 2012 - 09:10 PM.

[SuperjackDid_]

Anyone tried this out ?

http://www.iherb.com...blets/1625?at=0


Supplement Facts Serving Size: 3 tablets Servings Per Container: 83 Amount per Serving
% Daily Value
Calcium (as oyster shell, calcium carbonate)† 1,000 mg (1 g) 100%
Magnesium (as magnesium oxide)† 500 mg 125%
Zinc (as zinc gluconate)† 50 mg 333%
L-Glutamic Acid 100 mg *




I have much more clean Piracetam effect without irritability and can sit down writing and reading instead of sleepy or hyperactivity .
Will try larger dose and see what happen ,i might be smarter .

[Baten]

Oh good find, glutemic acid and calcium. Zinc gluconate and magnesium oxide is garbage, though, if I recall correctly.

[cat@]

Anyone tried this out ?

http://www.iherb.com...blets/1625?at=0

I ordered a bottle two days ago...

[SuperjackDid_]

I feel depress like hell today after calcium/glutamic supplement yesterday ,
feel more dumper than yesterday ,very slow and no energy no motivation to do anything like before .

I will not supplement calcium/glutamic for a while and see what happen ,hope i will be back to normal Piracetam state with acceptable mood.

Calcium improve vision eyesight distance by 1.5x far away for me ,like i first experience few first weeks.

[SuperjackDid_]

Glutamic acid Deficiency Symptoms

Although the deficiency symptoms of Glutamic Acid is unknow but some may notice are dullness of brain, insomina. As the brain is able to store relatively small quantities of glucose, it is dependent upon glutamic acid. The shortage of glutamine or glutamic acid in the brain results in brain damage or dullness of brain due to excess ammonia.

If Piracetam really depleted glutamic acid then serious brain damage may occur ,after i supplement with glutamic acid ,i no feel any numbness and tingling symptom,
but i also supplement taurine same day at night ,depress mood might come from taurine .

I need to share my experience and might other find it useful .
I will continue supplement l-glutamic /calcium supplement for a while.

[abelard lindsay]

Just for the record. Anyone who supplements with Glutamic acid is going to destroy their brain. There is a world of difference between L-Glutamine (Good) and L-Glutamate/Glutamic Acid (Bad Excitotoxin!!).

Just peruse pubmed a bit.

http://www.ncbi.nlm....0excitotoxicity

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/21957311
http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/22158479
http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/22154552

Anyway, this is a really bad mistake to make. Please, for the love of god, don't take L-Glutamate/Glutamic Acid supplements.

Edited by abelard lindsay, 30 March 2012 - 04:06 AM.

[Baten]

Again, at low doses between 100-250mg, you really aren't destroying your brain. At all.

[health_nutty]

Just for the record. Anyone who supplements with Glutamic acid is going to destroy their brain. There is a world of difference between L-Glutamine (Good) and L-Glutamate/Glutamic Acid (Bad Excitotoxin!!).

Just peruse pubmed a bit.

http://www.ncbi.nlm....0excitotoxicity

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/21957311
http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/22158479
http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/22154552

Anyway, this is a really bad mistake to make. Please, for the love of god, don't take L-Glutamate/Glutamic Acid supplements.

Your warning is well intended, but like nearly everything too little and too much of something are both bad.

Too little water is causes death, too much water causes death. You can't just say too much water causes death therefore we should not drink water.

Glutamate in the brain is both essential and toxic.

There is around 5 GRAMS of L-Glutamic Acid in a serving of whey protein.

The crude protein of pork, lamb, veal and beef muscle meats contains from
15.8 to 17.3% glutamic acid

[Orajel]

If you eat meat you do not need to supplement amino acids. See the post above. Example: around 10% of protein is glutamine, so the average person is already eating 10-20 grams of it a day.

Also, dopamine can be neurotoxic as well. You can reduce the neurotoxic effects of methamphetamine by blocking dopamine release, while preventing psychosis as well. But we need dopamine.

[abelard lindsay]

If you eat meat you do not need to supplement amino acids. See the post above. Example: around 10% of protein is glutamine, so the average person is already eating 10-20 grams of it a day.

Also, dopamine can be neurotoxic as well. You can reduce the neurotoxic effects of methamphetamine by blocking dopamine release, while preventing psychosis as well. But we need dopamine.

There is a big difference between glutamine and glutamate. Glutamine Synthase picks up Glutamate and ammonia in the brain and turns it into glutamine so it doesn't build up and cause excitotoxicity. You don't want to overload that metabolic pathway such that the body's regulation of glutamate is overwhelmed by supplementing with it.

See:
http://en.wikipedia....ogical_Function


The problem with dopamine is that if you bypass the bodies metabolic pathways and supplement too much with L-Dopa or Dopamine you get an excess buildup of toxic dopamine metabolites like DOPAC, which damages the dopamine producing and storing regions of the brain. This can be mitigated somewhat with MAO-B inhibitors.

http://en.wikipedia....enylacetic_acid

[Orajel]

If you eat meat you do not need to supplement amino acids. See the post above. Example: around 10% of protein is glutamine, so the average person is already eating 10-20 grams of it a day.

Also, dopamine can be neurotoxic as well. You can reduce the neurotoxic effects of methamphetamine by blocking dopamine release, while preventing psychosis as well. But we need dopamine.

There is a big difference between glutamine and glutamate. Glutamine Synthase picks up Glutamate and ammonia in the brain and turns it into glutamine so it doesn't build up and cause excitotoxicity. You don't want to overload that metabolic pathway such that the body's regulation of glutamate is overwhelmed by supplementing with it.

See:
http://en.wikipedia....ogical_Function


The problem with dopamine is that if you bypass the bodies metabolic pathways and supplement too much with L-Dopa or Dopamine you get an excess buildup of toxic dopamine metabolites like DOPAC, which damages the dopamine producing and storing regions of the brain. This can be mitigated somewhat with MAO-B inhibitors.

http://en.wikipedia....enylacetic_acid

I'm aware, glutamine was an example. If you want to look at glutamic acid, 35% of wheat protein is glutamic acid, and all protein sources contain an abundance of it.

[Hebbeh]

If you eat meat you do not need to supplement amino acids. See the post above. Example: around 10% of protein is glutamine, so the average person is already eating 10-20 grams of it a day.

Also, dopamine can be neurotoxic as well. You can reduce the neurotoxic effects of methamphetamine by blocking dopamine release, while preventing psychosis as well. But we need dopamine.

There is a big difference between glutamine and glutamate. Glutamine Synthase picks up Glutamate and ammonia in the brain and turns it into glutamine so it doesn't build up and cause excitotoxicity. You don't want to overload that metabolic pathway such that the body's regulation of glutamate is overwhelmed by supplementing with it.

See:
http://en.wikipedia....ogical_Function


The problem with dopamine is that if you bypass the bodies metabolic pathways and supplement too much with L-Dopa or Dopamine you get an excess buildup of toxic dopamine metabolites like DOPAC, which damages the dopamine producing and storing regions of the brain. This can be mitigated somewhat with MAO-B inhibitors.

http://en.wikipedia....enylacetic_acid

I'm aware, glutamine was an example. If you want to look at glutamic acid, 35% of wheat protein is glutamic acid, and all protein sources contain an abundance of it.

I'm amazed at how many people don't realize the difference between purified free form amino acids and bound proteins. Many amino acids are sold in purified free form to treat various conditions and can have powerful effects. But you will not get these same effects from bound proteins....it is not the same. I can go in a long discussion about various free form amino acids and what they can do even in the face of a high protein diet....but I shouldn't have too....it's been common knowledge for a very long time.

[brainslugged]

Incidentally, purely by accident I take my PIRACETAM daily with a glass of milk, and have been doing so for years; which in part might help to explain why I have experienced such consistent effective results with it

PIRACETAM with a glass of milk.

Piracetam increases mental clarity and sharpness.

The Korova milkbar sold milk-plus, milk plus vellocet or synthemesc or drencrom, which is what we were drinking. This would sharpen you up...

I can't help but think of the opening scene of that movie whenever I think of scienceguy drinking milk with piracetam in it, ha ha.

[hooter]

If he's such a scienceguy he should know that milk is cancer-fuel #1 and depletes calcium from bones and leads to Osteoporosis.

[Tomas E]

If he's such a scienceguy he should know that milk is cancer-fuel #1 and depletes calcium from bones and leads to Osteoporosis.

Not in combination with different vitamins.

[SuperjackDid_]

I tried MSG at morning with Piracetam ,
Piracetam get start that normally i feel irribility or sit still all half life time .
MSG do magic ,i can do walk and feel confident ,effect like Hyperspace mentioned .

I and do day morning routine after Piracetam dose at morning ,
at evening i can take more Piracetam that most larger dose that i most feel bad from it ,MSG seem help but i need to watch more fews day to weeks.

MSG effect act faster than L-Glutamic acid ,rapid absorb and do their job quickly .

Interesting for just very tiny amount of it !


Any more participant on MSG/L-glutamic experience base report ?

[jinxod]

Im having a hard time trying to find L-glutamic acid here in the UK. I looked up Solgar, and yes there it is on the US website but not the UK.

Does anyone in the UK know of a source?

I managed to find this over here, it is in powder form though. What do you guys think?

http://www.selfhealt...cid-powder.html

[SuperjackDid_]

Checklist for MSG/L-glutamic dose down/up ward depend on symptom .


Excess brain glutamate is believed to cause symptoms including:

• Hyperalgesia (pain amplification)
• Anxiety
• Restlessness
• ADHD-like symptoms, such as inability to focus
• In ME/CFS, some researchers hypothesize that glutamate function is low, which means the brain isn't getting enough stimulation. However, this belief is not yet supported by evidence.

A glutamate deficiency in the brain is believed to cause symptoms including:

• Insomnia
• Concentration problems
• Mental exhaustion
• Low energy

[jinxod]

I went ahead and order the L-Glutamic Product:

It came today and I have doubts over it.

1. Its suggested use on packed - 1050mg per day or as directed by a healthcare professional.

Surely 1050mg would be way to much?

2. I did about L-Glutamic Acid to find out if it is water or fat soluble. I believe that it is water soluble. Added some of this product into a bit of warm water and it is not dissolving.

I am correct then in assuming this is not L-Glutamic Acid?

Edited by manic_racetam, 30 April 2012 - 07:34 AM.