469 replies to this topic

[Hyperspace21]

Would this advice probably roll over to other racetams, and even derivatives like noopept? Do you even suggest the other racetams?

I haven't tried any racetams at all, but I was just curious, as if I do try them soon I might try some other than piracetam (like ani-, oxi-, and prami- for example).

Also do you suggest any specific choline source if one is low on choline? Examples of these sources would be Alpha-GPC, CDP-Choline, Choline Bitartrate, Phosphatidylcholine... and then there are cofactors like Acetyl L-Carnitine, and the Acetylcholinesterase inhibitors like galantamine and Huperzine A.



Goodness, it gets complex fast. Maybe I should just keep it simple with piracetam, choline bitartrate, and ALCAR. Plus the calcium and glutamic acid if needed.

Have to agree, the more I read and think I know, the more questions I have.

Well, you have to know exactly what you are consuming right? Having questions is good. You can find out more on how different substances affect you, which can give you an even better chance to learn more about your body.

Figuring out how your brain reacts to different substances is no 'walk in the park'.

Feel free to ask any questions.

[Tomas E]

SO true, and I really appreciate you all for sharing this, its really helpful, im just unfortunally still waiting for my piracetam to come, got everything else but not the magic substance ^^

[Introspecta]

Supplementing with Glutamate and Calcium seems to increase the efficiency of Piracetam for me but it is has NOT lowered my tolerance. I still need rather large doses. Hyperspace. Could it be that I was so deficient In Calcium that I need to let my levels catch back up? Supplementing with GLutamate alone didn't seem to make any difference.

[Introspecta]

Also Is it possible to Over Supplement Calcium causing negative effects with Piracetam. Like you say excessive Glutamate is counterproductive for good results with piracetam but what about excessive Calcium?

[ScienceGuy]

Can anyone verify the glutamic acid bit? I want to buy, but wanna see anecdotes first. Thanks!

Mine is ordered and I am just waitng to receive it in the mail. I will feedback my personal anecdotal experiences with it ASAP

Edited by ScienceGuy, 21 February 2012 - 06:27 PM.

[ScienceGuy]

Also Is it possible to Over Supplement Calcium causing negative effects with Piracetam. Like you say excessive Glutamate is counterproductive for good results with piracetam but what about excessive Calcium?

In short, YES

Too much CALCIUM is just as bad as too little. The word you are looking for is MODERATION

[Hyperspace21]

Supplementing with Glutamate and Calcium seems to increase the efficiency of Piracetam for me but it is has NOT lowered my tolerance. I still need rather large doses. Hyperspace. Could it be that I was so deficient In Calcium that I need to let my levels catch back up? Supplementing with GLutamate alone didn't seem to make any difference.

Magnesium tends to reduce Piracetam tolerance; with the results so far that I have obtained from the latest magnesium tests (I will post results when the test complete).

Magnesium seems to be an awesome mineral for people who have seem to have no effect with calcium and glutamate/glutamic acid supplementation. It also helps people who require high dosages of piracetam. About a few milligrams (450mg per day) is safe. It is required to do over 300 chemical processes in the body and regulates many nerve functions.

Too much calcium is very harmful. It can cause cramps and/or muscle/nervous tissue breakdown.

[unregistered_user]

SOLVE THIS PIRACETAM EXPERTS!

I've been an on and off Piracetam user for sometime. I've felt the magic of Piracetam but a good experience with it has been hard to come by lately. I've tried co-supplementing with calcium, whey protein, about 500-600mg choline bitartrate (I know this isn't the best source of choline but it's all I have) and the only effect I get lately is SEDATION!

I take 2 level teaspoons of Piracetam (which I'm assuming is about 5-6 grams) and within 20 minutes I am absolutely knocked out, without fail, every time. This is a sleep SO INTENSE that almost nothing can disturb it and it generally lasts about 4-6 hours.

For example, last night I slept 9 hours. I woke up and and took all of my usual supplements this morning and added in the ~5-6 grams of Piracetam. Then, predictably I was back in bed and slept for ANOTHER 6 HOURS! Normally I require only 7 hours of sleep but when taking Piracetam, I can easily sleep 15 hours! For obvious reasons, this is not a desirable effect. I end up squandering an entire day which is the exact opposite reason for my taking it.

This morning I took:

Piracetam: 5-6g (2 level teaspoons)
Fish Oil: 12g
Whey Protein: 24g protein / 5.5g BCAAs / 4g Glutamine & Precursors
Choline Bitartrate: ~600mg
Super B-Complex (with vitamin c and folic acid)
Vitamin C: 1000mg
Vitamin D3: 600mg
Calcium: 1000mg
Magnesium: 400mg
Zinc: 15mg
Sam-e: 1200mg
Men's One-A-Day

Then 20 minutes later. ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

What is it about Piracetam doses in the 4-6 gram range that knocks me out?!

Edited by semi-retarded-individual, 21 February 2012 - 09:51 PM.

[Hyperspace21]

SOLVE THIS PIRACETAM EXPERTS!

I've been an on and off Piracetam user for sometime. I've felt the magic of Piracetam but a good experience with it has been hard to come by lately. I've tried co-supplementing with calcium, whey protein, about 500-600mg choline bitartrate (I know this isn't the best source of choline but it's all I have) and the only effect I get lately is SEDATION!

I take 2 level teaspoons of Piracetam (which I'm assuming is about 5-6 grams) and within 20 minutes I am absolutely knocked out, without fail, every time. This is a sleep SO INTENSE that almost nothing can disturb it and it generally lasts about 4-6 hours.

For example, last night I slept 9 hours. I woke up and and took all of my usual supplements this morning and added in the ~5-6 grams of Piracetams. Then, predictably I was back in bed and slept for ANOTHER 6 HOURS! Normally I require only 7 hours of sleep but when taking Piracetam, I can easily sleep 15 hours! For obvious reasons, this is not a desirable effect. I end up squandering an entire day which is the exact opposite reason for my taking it.

This morning I took:

Piracetam: 5-6g (2 level teaspoons)
Fish Oil: 12g
Whey Protein: 24g protein / 5.5g BCAAs / 4g Glutamine & Precursors
Choline Bitartrate: ~600mg
Super B-Complex (with vitamin c and folic acid)
Vitamin C: 1000mg
Vitamin D3: 600mg
Calcium: 1000mg
Magnesium: 400mg
Zinc: 15mg
Sam-e: 1200mg
Men's One-A-Day

Then 20 minutes later. ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

What is it about Piracetam doses in the 4-6 gram range that knocks me out?!

You are experiencing one of the common side effects of Piracetam, which is drowsiness. It is caused when there is excess melatonin left in the brain after waking up or before going to sleep or when there blood pressure is too low.

Recommendation:

Take piracetam 2 hours after you wake up. Exercise and eat breakfast 1 - 2 hours after consuming your stack. Try taking Piracetam in the afternoon or when you're the most awake/alert.
You've got too much fish oil which can cause low blood pressure; causing you to feel drowsy. Average dosage is about 4 capsules of 1200mg each per day.
Please measure your piracteam intake.
Avoid Sam-e, it'll make you sluggish when used in conjunction with piracetam, (don't follow this advice if you were prescribed Sam-e).
You might be getting a bit too much of the vitamins and minerals mentioned, considering that you take the vitamins and minerals above separately along with Men's One-A-Day.
Do not consume too much starch or oil for breakfast. It'll make you very lazy.

As for the 'SEDATION' feeling; that is just piracetam trying to create a REM state (or a 'vivid dreaming' state) of mind immobilizing your limbs and entire body. It's hard to wake up during REM sleep.

Follow the recommendation and please report your results.

Edited by Hyperspace21, 21 February 2012 - 09:53 PM.

[unregistered_user]

SOLVE THIS PIRACETAM EXPERTS!

I've been an on and off Piracetam user for sometime. I've felt the magic of Piracetam but a good experience with it has been hard to come by lately. I've tried co-supplementing with calcium, whey protein, about 500-600mg choline bitartrate (I know this isn't the best source of choline but it's all I have) and the only effect I get lately is SEDATION!

I take 2 level teaspoons of Piracetam (which I'm assuming is about 5-6 grams) and within 20 minutes I am absolutely knocked out, without fail, every time. This is a sleep SO INTENSE that almost nothing can disturb it and it generally lasts about 4-6 hours.

For example, last night I slept 9 hours. I woke up and and took all of my usual supplements this morning and added in the ~5-6 grams of Piracetams. Then, predictably I was back in bed and slept for ANOTHER 6 HOURS! Normally I require only 7 hours of sleep but when taking Piracetam, I can easily sleep 15 hours! For obvious reasons, this is not a desirable effect. I end up squandering an entire day which is the exact opposite reason for my taking it.

This morning I took:

Piracetam: 5-6g (2 level teaspoons)
Fish Oil: 12g
Whey Protein: 24g protein / 5.5g BCAAs / 4g Glutamine & Precursors
Choline Bitartrate: ~600mg
Super B-Complex (with vitamin c and folic acid)
Vitamin C: 1000mg
Vitamin D3: 600mg
Calcium: 1000mg
Magnesium: 400mg
Zinc: 15mg
Sam-e: 1200mg
Men's One-A-Day

Then 20 minutes later. ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

What is it about Piracetam doses in the 4-6 gram range that knocks me out?!

You are experiencing one of the common side effects of Piracetam, which is drowsiness. It is caused when there is excess melatonin left in the brain after waking up or before going to sleep or when there blood pressure is too low.

Recommendation:

Take piracetam 2 hours after you wake up. Exercise and eat breakfast 1 - 2 hours after consuming your stack. Try taking Piracetam in the afternoon.
You've got too much fish oil which can cause low blood pressure causing you to feel drowsy. Average dosage is about 4 capsules of 1200mg each per day.
Please measure your piracteam intake.
Avoid Sam-e, it'll make you sluggish when used in conjunction with piracetam, (don't follow this advice if you were prescribed Sam-e).
You might be getting a bit too much of the vitamins and minerals mentioned, considering that you take the vitamins and minerals above separately along with Men's One-A-Day.

Good input Hyperspace. I am not prescribed Sam-E but elect to take it for mood balance which it seems to work well for. I take high doses of fish oil because I am concerned about heart health and already have high blood pressure... stage 1 hypertension. Also, high dose fish oil with Piracetam is reputed to be synergistic. My BP on average is generally 142/76 if not sometimes higher. If the fish oil is lowering my blood pressure, I would consider that a welcomed advantage.

Is there any literature or source you can provide me with that substantiates your statement that Sam-e consumed with Piracetam results in sluggishness? I haven't heard that before.

I don't disagree that I am probably getting too much of some of the aforementioned vitamins but I wonder if that is to any detriment? I'm probably just excreting the extra vitamins in my urine.

Will continued use of 4-6g of Piracetam eventually cause the drowsiness to diminish? I have tried taking Piracetam later in the day and the same thing happens. It didn't always happen though. My first few weeks with Piracetam were great!

Edited by semi-retarded-individual, 21 February 2012 - 10:00 PM.

[unregistered_user]

To get the optimal Piracetam dosage, how should I measure? I simply have measuring spoons available (tsp, tbspn, etc). No spoon was included with my Piracetam from CH. Is 2 level teaspoons too much?

[DoomAndGloom]

To get the optimal Piracetam dosage, how should I measure? I simply have measuring spoons available (tsp, tbspn, etc). No spoon was included with my Piracetam from CH. Is 2 level teaspoons too much?

Different powders can have different densities depending on particle size and other things... For example, the particles have a tiny bit of 'squish' to them, but mainly there can be room between the different particles. If you pack down the powder, it will be much more dense than if it has tons of air between the particles and they're not pressed together tightly.

Usually people use scales.

Is it in a container (like a plastic cylinder) or just an unmarked bag?

Edited by DoomAndGloom, 21 February 2012 - 10:31 PM.

[unregistered_user]

To get the optimal Piracetam dosage, how should I measure? I simply have measuring spoons available (tsp, tbspn, etc). No spoon was included with my Piracetam from CH. Is 2 level teaspoons too much?

Different powders can have different densities depending on particle size and other things... For example, the particles have a tiny bit of 'squish' to them, but mainly there can be room between the different particles. If you pack down the powder, it will be much more dense than if it has tons of air between the particles and they're not pressed together tightly.

Usually people use scales.

Is it in a container (like a plastic cylinder) or just an unmarked bag?

Any recommendations for good scales? The Piracetam is contained in the classic CH foil bag with a sticker on the front. Back when I ordered from Smart Powders they had the black tubs with the scoops included.

[manic_racetam]

Any recommendations for good scales? The Piracetam is contained in the classic CH foil bag with a sticker on the front. Back when I ordered from Smart Powders they had the black tubs with the scoops included.

SRI, surprised you've been around so long and still have no milligram scale But I'd search Amazon for milligram scales, usually around 20 bucks including shipping within the US. Personally I've got the ameri-weigh DIA20. Think it was 24 bucks including shipping and I've been using it for around 8 months or so and haven't had to change the batteries yet. Works good too.

PS: 2 teaspoons of piracetam is likely closer to between 6-7g's. If I remember correctly a teaspoon of piracetam is around 3.2g's or something.

Edited by manic_racetam, 22 February 2012 - 12:18 AM.

[unregistered_user]

Any recommendations for good scales? The Piracetam is contained in the classic CH foil bag with a sticker on the front. Back when I ordered from Smart Powders they had the black tubs with the scoops included.

SRI, surprised you've been around so long and still have no milligram scale But I'd search Amazon for milligram scales, usually around 20 bucks including shipping within the US. Personally I've got the ameri-weigh DIA20. Think it was 24 bucks including shipping and I've been using it for around 8 months or so and haven't had to change the batteries yet. Works good too.

PS: 2 teaspoons of piracetam is likely closer to between 6-7g's. If I remember correctly a teaspoon of piracetam is around 3.2g's or something.

Haha. I know, I almost bought one when I was considering Noopept but since I decided against it I never wound up buying the scale. Thanks for the recommendation!

[Hyperspace21]

SOLVE THIS PIRACETAM EXPERTS!

I've been an on and off Piracetam user for sometime. I've felt the magic of Piracetam but a good experience with it has been hard to come by lately. I've tried co-supplementing with calcium, whey protein, about 500-600mg choline bitartrate (I know this isn't the best source of choline but it's all I have) and the only effect I get lately is SEDATION!

I take 2 level teaspoons of Piracetam (which I'm assuming is about 5-6 grams) and within 20 minutes I am absolutely knocked out, without fail, every time. This is a sleep SO INTENSE that almost nothing can disturb it and it generally lasts about 4-6 hours.

For example, last night I slept 9 hours. I woke up and and took all of my usual supplements this morning and added in the ~5-6 grams of Piracetams. Then, predictably I was back in bed and slept for ANOTHER 6 HOURS! Normally I require only 7 hours of sleep but when taking Piracetam, I can easily sleep 15 hours! For obvious reasons, this is not a desirable effect. I end up squandering an entire day which is the exact opposite reason for my taking it.

This morning I took:

Piracetam: 5-6g (2 level teaspoons)
Fish Oil: 12g
Whey Protein: 24g protein / 5.5g BCAAs / 4g Glutamine & Precursors
Choline Bitartrate: ~600mg
Super B-Complex (with vitamin c and folic acid)
Vitamin C: 1000mg
Vitamin D3: 600mg
Calcium: 1000mg
Magnesium: 400mg
Zinc: 15mg
Sam-e: 1200mg
Men's One-A-Day

Then 20 minutes later. ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

What is it about Piracetam doses in the 4-6 gram range that knocks me out?!

You are experiencing one of the common side effects of Piracetam, which is drowsiness. It is caused when there is excess melatonin left in the brain after waking up or before going to sleep or when there blood pressure is too low.

Recommendation:

Take piracetam 2 hours after you wake up. Exercise and eat breakfast 1 - 2 hours after consuming your stack. Try taking Piracetam in the afternoon.
You've got too much fish oil which can cause low blood pressure causing you to feel drowsy. Average dosage is about 4 capsules of 1200mg each per day.
Please measure your piracteam intake.
Avoid Sam-e, it'll make you sluggish when used in conjunction with piracetam, (don't follow this advice if you were prescribed Sam-e).
You might be getting a bit too much of the vitamins and minerals mentioned, considering that you take the vitamins and minerals above separately along with Men's One-A-Day.

Good input Hyperspace. I am not prescribed Sam-E but elect to take it for mood balance which it seems to work well for. I take high doses of fish oil because I am concerned about heart health and already have high blood pressure... stage 1 hypertension. Also, high dose fish oil with Piracetam is reputed to be synergistic. My BP on average is generally 142/76 if not sometimes higher. If the fish oil is lowering my blood pressure, I would consider that a welcomed advantage.

Is there any literature or source you can provide me with that substantiates your statement that Sam-e consumed with Piracetam results in sluggishness? I haven't heard that before.

I don't disagree that I am probably getting too much of some of the aforementioned vitamins but I wonder if that is to any detriment? I'm probably just excreting the extra vitamins in my urine.

Will continued use of 4-6g of Piracetam eventually cause the drowsiness to diminish? I have tried taking Piracetam later in the day and the same thing happens. It didn't always happen though. My first few weeks with Piracetam were great!

SAM-e is used as an antidepressant, (you should probably know that) it works (in non-scientific terms) by calming down your brain. Once you are awake your brain is pretty calm and becomes more alert throughout the day until mid-afternoon (2 pm - 3 pm). Sam-e can cause your brain to calm down so much that you will feel sleepy. This, accompanied with Piracetam makes an excellent sleeping state.
Do a search on Sam-e, you'll find that it is used as an antidepressant. (regulates you moods, in your case).

Try to go a couple of days without Sam-e, see if it works for you. Considering your high blood pressure, fish oil up to 4800mg is enough to lower it down. I know that high doses of fish oil works synergetically with piracetam (I take fish oil too), but since people have different body chemistry's it is likely that you might need a lower dosage to let piracetam work properly. (Do not follow this advice if the doctor has recommended your dosage).

Excess vitamins and minerals come out of the urine in small amounts. The rest is stored in the body so it can be used in times of emergencies (starvation and such). A build up of excess minerals can cause many neurological problems due to irregular amount of release of certain chemicals in the brain caused by the excess minerals/vitamins.

4.8 grams of piracetam is roughly about half a tablespoon. I would highly recommend getting a precision milligram scale.

[Hyperspace21]

Got the results for the MSG supplementation clinical trials.

Here is the complete procedure we followed:

1. On January 5 ,2012 we gathered a new set of volunteers, specifically, people who consumed piracetam were selected. (we had to sort out about 53,000 survey forms and also verify them). Thankfully, we got help from a couple of universities who were also interested in this particular research.

2. Over the following week we gathered 150 individuals and tested each individual for sensitivity to MSG (Mono-Sodium Glutamate) by having them consume 100mg of MSG and then monitoring their blood pressure,sugar levels and verifying it with the CSF. We also tested other factors that were required for their first clinical trial, such as, cardiovascular problems, diseases, smoking history, etc.

3. On January 13,2012 we got the results for the individuals who were sensitive to MSG. The results showed that out of 150 people, 27 of them were sensitive to MSG and hence were eliminated. We then determined the maximum MSG tolerance of each individual on the same day, (incremental dosage of MSG was given). Based on this, the people were divided in to 3 categories.

4. On January 14,2012; the clinical trials began.

5. The trials ended on January 21,2012; a week after it had started.

Here is how the Clinical Trials proceeded:

Total no. of people: 123

• The first set of people consisted of 21 people. These people were given 500mg of MSG. The volunteers in the first set had high tolerance rates (above 1 gram).
• The second set of people consisted of 74 people. These people were given exactly 100mg of MSG. The volunteers in the second set had average tolerance rates (100mg - 500mg)
• The third set of people consisted of 28 people. These people were given 25mg of MSG. The volunteers in this group had slightly low tolerance rates (100mg - 250mg)

The clinical trials were performed in double blind placebo controlled study and volunteers were secretly given piracetam and 500mg choline along with MSG. They knew that they were going to be given MSG but did not know about the other 2 substances.

Here are the Results:

• In the first set; 12 of the volunteers exhibited enhanced cognitive abilities without any side effects based on their experience reports, mental/physiology test results and blood tests. While the other 9 people exhibited signs of restlessness with slightly improved cognitive abilities.
• In the second set; 55 of the volunteers exhibited signs of improved,memory,speech and cognitive abilities based on their experience report, mental/physiology test results and blood tests. While the other 19 people exhibited no improvement.
• In the third set; all 28 people exhibited slightly improved speech based on their experience report, mental/physiology test results and blood tests.

From the above trials, we tried to rule out the fluctuations of responders and non-responders which again led us to the correlation between their calcium and choline intake. (This was tested through MRI density scans,blood tests and CSF).

The above results were carried out over the course of one week and based on the results, we have concluded that MSG is a viable supplementation for glutamate intake, but, not a completely suitable one because it does not allow all the functions of piracetam to express its true potential. It also not suitable because it also has a potential health hazard.

Recommendation:

The recommendation made is not by our team but by a panel of professors, highly qualified neurologists and health specialists.

• MSG should be avoided as a glutamate supplement and should only be consumed at around 100mg (±25mg) in case of absolute emergencies or during low body glucose levels.
• MSG should not be consumed everyday. It may lead to a few neurological disorders.

We thank our our professors and the various people who helped us in this research. We also thank the universities who have joined us in our research and are willing to fund it. (The names of these universities cannot be mentioned due to legal issues)

We made sure that none of the volunteers were harmed in any way during the clinical trial.

This report has been retyped in a way so that, average, non-scientific readers and the general public can apprehend it.

END OF REPORT

Edited by Hyperspace21, 22 February 2012 - 12:56 PM.

[spartan86]

Thank you for such a Great tread!
What do you thinks about supplementing with inositol? Last time I took piracetam, I've supplemented with choline&inositol complex (250mg/250mg).
It gave me some good piracetam times really. I've no idea if it was just choline. What do you think?
I can totally confirm that you need to take calcium with piracetam. I was clueless why I drank loads of milk during piracetam use. Now I know.

Edited by spartan86, 22 February 2012 - 12:55 PM.

[Hyperspace21]

Thank you for such a Great tread!
What do you thinks about supplementing with inositol? Last time I took piracetam, I've supplemented with choline&inositol complex (250mg/250mg).
It gave me some good piracetam times really. I've no idea if it was just choline. What do you think?
I can totally confirm that you need to take calcium with piracetam. I was clueless why I drank loads of milk during piracetam use. Now I know.

It seems ok to supplement inositol with piracetam, (possibly could compliment each other since inositol is alcohol based).

If you are not sure about some supplements then try taking them separately and then see which one works, if neither of them works on their own then it means that the supplements have a synergetic effect on your body.

[spartan86]

Thank you for such a Great tread!
What do you thinks about supplementing with inositol? Last time I took piracetam, I've supplemented with choline&inositol complex (250mg/250mg).
It gave me some good piracetam times really. I've no idea if it was just choline. What do you think?
I can totally confirm that you need to take calcium with piracetam. I was clueless why I drank loads of milk during piracetam use. Now I know.

It seems ok to supplement inositol with piracetam, (possibly could compliment each other since inositol is alcohol based).

If you are not sure about some supplements then try taking them separately and then see which one works, if neither of them works on their own then it means that the supplements have a synergetic effect on your body.

Thanks for answering so fast. I've done a little "research" into Inositol and it seems to regulate calcium too.
That's why it piqued my interest. From wiki:
Intracellularcalcium (Ca²⁺) concentration control^[10]

[Hyperspace21]

Thank you for such a Great tread!
What do you thinks about supplementing with inositol? Last time I took piracetam, I've supplemented with choline&inositol complex (250mg/250mg).
It gave me some good piracetam times really. I've no idea if it was just choline. What do you think?
I can totally confirm that you need to take calcium with piracetam. I was clueless why I drank loads of milk during piracetam use. Now I know.

It seems ok to supplement inositol with piracetam, (possibly could compliment each other since inositol is alcohol based).

If you are not sure about some supplements then try taking them separately and then see which one works, if neither of them works on their own then it means that the supplements have a synergetic effect on your body.

Thanks for answering so fast. I've done a little "research" into Inositol and it seems to regulate calcium too.
That's why it piqued my interest. From wiki:
Intracellularcalcium (Ca²⁺) concentration control^[10]

interesting

[BrainFrost]

My L-Glutamic Acid should be arriving shortly as well.

So taking Glutamic Acid in doses of 50mg-100mg every day is not recommended. What would you suggest to be the dosing cycle if there is cognitive improvement with glutamic acid?

Edited by BrainFrost, 22 February 2012 - 05:08 PM.

[Hyperspace21]

My L-Glutamic Acid should be arriving shortly as well.

So taking Glutamic Acid in doses of 50mg-100mg a day is not recommended. What would you suggest to be the dosing cycle if there is cognitive improvement with glutamic acid?

Glutamic acid or L-Glutamic Acid is perfectly fine and IS recommended for the most part. MSG is the one that is not recommended. However, the dosage cycle for each substance is different.

For Glutamic acid or L-Glutamic acid the dosage is 100mg - 250mg per day, so, per dose should be around 50mg - 125mg considering that you take piracetam twice a day.

MSG on the other hand is only fit up till 100mg per day; maximum limit is 250mg per day (for normal people). The dosage for this is about 50mg per dose and should be taken twice daily only if you are low on glucose. MSG should be cycled on alternate days.

A preferable substitute for MSG is whey protein,creatine, whey protein isolate, soy products (not recommended due to a current controversy going about soy being harmful to health).

Hope that clears the doubt.
Feel free to ask if you have any doubt left.

[capctr]

If 500 milligrams of MSG yields the best results, does that translate to roughly 500 milligrams of L-Glutamate?

[Hyperspace21]

If 500 milligrams of MSG yields the best results, does that translate to roughly 500 milligrams of L-Glutamate?

If you look closely, 100mg of MSG yields the best results for average people. For L-Glutamate you can use the same dosage or even slightly increase the dosage (you can increase it by 50mg).

Ideal dosage for L-Glutamate is 125mg.

[scouser]

Great thread.

I am currently on a stack Piracetam, Oxi, Pram and Sulbutiamiane

I wondering whether I should go back to stage 1 and Piracetem alone again using the advice here.

I have exams in a month with others in May and so I dont want to run the risk of messing up things... Humm

[Elus]

Great study, few questions

1. How would one go about establishing whether or not they are deficient in MSG or Calcium. I can see 7 scenarios:

• Calcium too low and MSG too low.
• Calcium sufficient and MSG too low.
• Calcium too low and MSG sufficient.
• Both sufficient.
• Calcium too high and MSG sufficient.
• Calcium sufficient and MSG too high.
• Calcium too high and MSG too high.

2. How much piracetam would be appropriate to take? EDIT: Ah, they took 4.8g. Never mind this question...
3. Would spread out doses through the day be more effective than a single dose?
4. Would aniracetam benefit from MSG and calcium regulation? EDIT: You answered this in the post below mine.
5. How much better did subject perform on piracetam vs controls on the cognitive test portion?

Thank you.

Edited by Elus, 22 February 2012 - 08:34 PM.

[Hyperspace21]

Great thread.

I am currently on a stack Piracetam, Oxi, Pram and Sulbutiamiane

I wondering whether I should go back to stage 1 and Piracetem alone again using the advice here.

I have exams in a month with others in May and so I dont want to run the risk of messing up things... Humm

Personally, racetams aren't very good for use during exams since they induce creativity. Imagine not knowing an answer to a particular question and your brain starts to get creative. You would end up being stuck on the question because of your increased focus and you'd also end up writing non-sense for that particular answer. Piracetam and all the other racetams work well when studying since you'd be 'forced' to read every aspect of the lesson/chapter.

I don't think its necessary to go back to stage 1 with piracetam or any other racetam. Just include the advice in to your current stack and it'll most likely work well with all 3 racetams in conjunction (you might need to increase dosage for the calcium and glutamate/glutamic acid by 50mg).

Good luck for your Exams.

[Hyperspace21]

Great study, few questions

1. How would one go about establishing whether or not they are deficient in MSG or Calcium. I can see 7 scenarios:

• Calcium too low and MSG too low.
• Calcium sufficient and MSG too low.
• Calcium too low and MSG sufficient.
• Both sufficient.
• Calcium too high and MSG sufficient.
• Calcium sufficient and MSG too high.
• Calcium too high and MSG too high.

2. How much piracetam would be appropriate to take? Your volunteers took 1000mg to 2800mg. Which was most effective in producing cognitive benefits?
3. Would spread out doses through the day be more effective than a single dose?
4. Would aniracetam benefit from MSG and calcium regulation?

Thank you.

1. In the first 3 scenarios, you would have to take each substance individually.

Take calcium only and see if there is an increased effect. (If this works then it means you were calcium deficient)
Take glutamate/glutamic acid and see if there is an increased effect. (If this works then it means you were glutamate deficient)
Take both together and most likely you'll feel the effects. (If this works then it means that you are calcium and glutamate deficient)

If none of them work, then you might have a tolerance or choline problem.

In the last 4 scenarios, you will feel the effects but will also notice symptoms of having to much of a particular substance.
Too much of calcium will cause cramps and muscle pain.
Too much of glutamate will make you restless.
Too much of both and you'll experience both symptoms.

Daily Calcium intake should not exceed 1300mg.
Daily glutamate/glutamic acid intake should not exceed 500mg. (Recommended dosage is 10mg-100mg of MSG or 10mg -125mg of Glutamic acid)

2. Our volunteers all took 4800mg of Piracetam per dose. (9.6 grams per day), 4.8g is the ideal piracetam dosage.

3. Yes spread out doses are better than a single dose. This is because a single dose can only last for about 4 hours whereas spread doses (4-6 hours apart) can maintain piracetam's effect for 8 hours. Piracetam is not a substance where, 'the more you take; the more the effective it gets'.

This is false since piracetam dosage has a 'U' shaped curve meaning beyond a certain threshold (9.8 grams), piracetam starts to work backwards. (unless you have low calcium levels in which case higher doses would be required to achieve the effect).

4. Most, or more likely all racetams will benefit from glutamate and calcium regulation since they have the same mechanism of action. MSG is not recommended as a glutamate supplement as it does not allow piracetam to work to its full potential and is also a potential hazard.

[scouser]

Great thread.

I am currently on a stack Piracetam, Oxi, Pram and Sulbutiamiane

I wondering whether I should go back to stage 1 and Piracetem alone again using the advice here.

I have exams in a month with others in May and so I dont want to run the risk of messing up things... Humm

Personally, racetams aren't very good for use during exams since they induce creativity. Imagine not knowing an answer to a particular question and your brain starts to get creative. You would end up being stuck on the question because of your increased focus and you'd also end up writing non-sense for that particular answer. Piracetam and all the other racetams work well when studying since you'd be 'forced' to read every aspect of the lesson/chapter.

I don't think its necessary to go back to stage 1 with piracetam or any other racetam. Just include the advice in to your current stack and it'll most likely work well with all 3 racetams in conjunction (you might need to increase dosage for the calcium and glutamate/glutamic acid by 50mg).

Good luck for your Exams.

Thanks