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IS THERE EVIDENCE FOR ATHEISM?

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#1381 Duchykins

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Posted 27 July 2015 - 12:08 AM

Yes she would be as I described her.  By human do you need all her measurements, blood type etc.?  If you don't like redheads does that rule her out?  How about talking to her on the phone first to see if you even like her?

 

I wouldn't need a physical description of her from you beforehand.  But I would have to meet her.  The phone or the internet can be a good place to start but I'd still need to meet her in person to make a more comprehensive evaluation.

 

But it would be simple enough to introduce her to me by saying "hey we're going out for coffee, come meet her."



#1382 The Brain

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Posted 27 July 2015 - 01:24 AM

Does she fuck on first dates ?
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#1383 Dakman

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Posted 28 July 2015 - 09:46 PM

If she's a friend of Shadowhawk's then she's probably way too uptight  :)


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#1384 Duchykins

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Posted 29 July 2015 - 05:07 PM

 

Yes she would be as I described her.  By human do you need all her measurements, blood type etc.?  If you don't like redheads does that rule her out?  How about talking to her on the phone first to see if you even like her?

 

I wouldn't need a physical description of her from you beforehand.  But I would have to meet her.  The phone or the internet can be a good place to start but I'd still need to meet her in person to make a more comprehensive evaluation.

 

But it would be simple enough to introduce her to me by saying "hey we're going out for coffee, come meet her."

 

 

 

Anytime you're ready to reply to this, SH.



#1385 shadowhawk

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Posted 29 July 2015 - 08:26 PM

Certainly you are willing to meet her without full knowledge.  We do not have anything close to full knowledge about anything.  Even if you found out you liked her enough to marry her, you would be far from knowing her fully.  When I became a Christian it was just like this.  I was raised in a strong Atheist home and had no faith.  There was no God.  One night when on the back seat of a bus, in a rain storm I said this prayer.  "God , if there is a God and if there is one, I don't have any faith, or perhaps a very very little.  I put it in you."  I meet God and my life has never been the same.  We can argue tell the sun comes up and I love to do it but it comes down to faith.  Any one who wants to meet God can with only a little faith.  You will have doubts along the way, but you can know and experience God.



#1386 Vardarac

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Posted 29 July 2015 - 08:33 PM

So what about all the people who have that faith and... Don't?

 

Are they just not legitimately faithful from your point of view?


Edited by Vardarac, 29 July 2015 - 08:33 PM.


#1387 shadowhawk

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Posted 29 July 2015 - 08:52 PM

The people I know who have done this have an experience similar to mine.  Christianity did not become the largest human organization on the planet without something happening.  You get what you want.  Do you want to know God?


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#1388 shadowhawk

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Posted 29 July 2015 - 08:57 PM

FAITH

Faith is belief in a person or thing without complete evidence.  It is a belief based upon incomplete evidence.  Everything has incomplete evidence, therefore we all live by faith.  Faith is not blind, but intelligent and commences with the conviction and commitment of the mind based on adequate but incomplete evidence.  “Faith” Involves Making An Inference From Evidence to belief.  The difference between faith and superstition is that the first uses reason to go as far as it can and then believes; the second shuns reason entirely—which is why superstition is not the ally, but the enemy of true religion.  http://coldcasechris...h.kf99c08I.dpuf

American biblical scholar Archibald Thomas Robertson stated that the Greek word pistis used for faith in the New Testament (over two hundred forty times), and rendered "assurance" in Acts 17:31 (KJV), is "an old verb to furnish, used regularly by Demosthenes for bringing forward evidence."  To be persuaded by belief that has warrant, a trust in and commitment to what we have reason to believe is true.  It is belief that the hypotheses we hold will be substantiated in the future, in fact.  Trust.  Faith should be defined as “trusting, holding to, and acting on what one has good reason to believe is true in the face of incomplete evidence and difficulties.”

“Faith in Christianity is based on the work and teachings of Jesus Christ. Christianity declares not to be distinguished by faith, but by the object of its faith. Rather than being passive, faith leads to an active life aligned with the ideals and the example of the life of Jesus. It sees the mystery of God and his grace and seeks to know and become obedient to God. To a Christian, faith is not static but causes one to learn more of God and grow, and has its origin in God.

In Christianity, faith causes change as it seeks a greater understanding of God. Faith is not fideism or simple obedience to a set of rules or statements.  Before Christians have faith, they must understand in whom and in what they have faith. Without understanding, there cannot be true faith, and that understanding is built on the foundation of the community of believers, the scriptures and traditions and on the personal experiences of the believer. In English translations of the New Testament, the word faith generally corresponds to the Greek noun (pistis) or the Greek verb (pisteuo), meaning "to trust, to have confidence, faithfulness, to be reliable, to assure".”

http://en.wikipedia....Faith#Criticism









 



#1389 Vardarac

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Posted 29 July 2015 - 09:00 PM

I've tried it before. There was no reply.


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#1390 Duchykins

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Posted 29 July 2015 - 09:06 PM

Certainly you are willing to meet her without full knowledge.  We do not have anything close to full knowledge about anything.  Even if you found out you liked her enough to marry her, you would be far from knowing her fully.  When I became a Christian it was just like this.  I was raised in a strong Atheist home and had no faith.  There was no God.  One night when on the back seat of a bus, in a rain storm I said this prayer.  "God , if there is a God and if there is one, I don't have any faith, or perhaps a very very little.  I put it in you."  I meet God and my life has never been the same.  We can argue tell the sun comes up and I love to do it but it comes down to faith.  Any one who wants to meet God can with only a little faith.  You will have doubts along the way, but you can know and experience God.

 

You mistake me for someone who needs perfect knowledge.  I require meeting her myself so that I could evaluate her myself.  That is because you are not an authority on the matter precisely because you don't have perfect knowledge and you could easily be mistaken about her.  That is not even remotely close to wanting to know every last detail about her.  At the very least I would be looking to verify the things you said.

 

I'm glad you're all happy now as a Christian but these kinds of anecdotes are never terribly compelling.  Especially since I had the opposite; born to "strong" conservative creationist Christians, happier now as atheist.  Why should you care about that?


Perhaps we were both rebelling against our parents ... whaddya say, eh?   :happy:



#1391 platypus

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Posted 29 July 2015 - 09:10 PM

So how come believers report "meeting God" in so many mutually incompatible religions? Perhaps it does not matter which religion appeals to you, especially now that it seems "God" does not transmit consistent information to believers...

 

 



#1392 shadowhawk

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Posted 29 July 2015 - 09:15 PM

 

Certainly you are willing to meet her without full knowledge.  We do not have anything close to full knowledge about anything.  Even if you found out you liked her enough to marry her, you would be far from knowing her fully.  When I became a Christian it was just like this.  I was raised in a strong Atheist home and had no faith.  There was no God.  One night when on the back seat of a bus, in a rain storm I said this prayer.  "God , if there is a God and if there is one, I don't have any faith, or perhaps a very very little.  I put it in you."  I meet God and my life has never been the same.  We can argue tell the sun comes up and I love to do it but it comes down to faith.  Any one who wants to meet God can with only a little faith.  You will have doubts along the way, but you can know and experience God.

 

You mistake me for someone who needs perfect knowledge.  I require meeting her myself so that I could evaluate her myself.  That is because you are not an authority on the matter precisely because you don't have perfect knowledge and you could easily be mistaken about her.  That is not even remotely close to wanting to know every last detail about her.  At the very least I would be looking to verify the things you said.

 

I'm glad you're all happy now as a Christian but these kinds of anecdotes are never terribly compelling.  Especially since I had the opposite; born to "strong" conservative creationist Christians, happier now as atheist.  Why should you care about that?


Perhaps we were both rebelling against our parents ... whaddya say, eh?   :happy:

 

It is not up to me to care for you.  I can't.  As for perfect knowledge, it doesn't exist.  as for evidence, it does exist but the sole accumulation of knowledge being the way you will meet, that doesn't happen either.


I've tried it before. There was no reply.

What did you try?



#1393 shadowhawk

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Posted 29 July 2015 - 09:22 PM

So how come believers report "meeting God" in so many mutually incompatible religions? Perhaps it does not matter which religion appeals to you, especially now that it seems "God" does not transmit consistent information to believers...

 

We are not talking about many girls but one.  All colors make up white something which cannot be claimed by any one color.  God does transmit information.  Our job is to discern it.  Who is God.
 



#1394 platypus

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Posted 29 July 2015 - 09:41 PM

 

So how come believers report "meeting God" in so many mutually incompatible religions? Perhaps it does not matter which religion appeals to you, especially now that it seems "God" does not transmit consistent information to believers...

 

We are not talking about many girls but one.  All colors make up white something which cannot be claimed by any one color.  God does transmit information.  Our job is to discern it.  Who is God.
 

 

So are you saying that all religions where people experience connection with God are fine? In other words, all monotheistic religions worship the same God? 



#1395 Duchykins

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Posted 29 July 2015 - 09:45 PM

It is not up to me to care for you.  I can't.  As for perfect knowledge, it doesn't exist.  as for evidence, it does exist but the sole accumulation of knowledge being the way you will meet, that doesn't happen either.

 

 

How many Westerners fall in love with or agree to marry without meeting the other person at least once beforehand?

 

Is my request really so unreasonable?



#1396 Vardarac

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Posted 29 July 2015 - 09:58 PM

I've prayed the sinner's prayer, and once I'd meant it. I've lowered myself to believing, for a moment, that when I address whatever God may be out there, that I might be talking to more than the wall. I've done this several times, often when I was poorly off emotionally, and eventually realized that there was no help to be had.



#1397 Dakman

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Posted 29 July 2015 - 10:45 PM

The people I know who have done this have an experience similar to mine.  Christianity did not become the largest human organization on the planet without something happening.  You get what you want.  Do you want to know God?

I'd rather know if there is a god

 

Not ask a question in my head 



#1398 shadowhawk

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Posted 29 July 2015 - 11:20 PM

 

 

So how come believers report "meeting God" in so many mutually incompatible religions? Perhaps it does not matter which religion appeals to you, especially now that it seems "God" does not transmit consistent information to believers...

 

We are not talking about many girls but one.  All colors make up white something which cannot be claimed by any one color.  God does transmit information.  Our job is to discern it.  Who is God.
 

 

So are you saying that all religions where people experience connection with God are fine? In other words, all monotheistic religions worship the same Go
 

Did I say that?



#1399 shadowhawk

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Posted 29 July 2015 - 11:25 PM

 

It is not up to me to care for you.  I can't.  As for perfect knowledge, it doesn't exist.  as for evidence, it does exist but the sole accumulation of knowledge being the way you will meet, that doesn't happen either.

 

 

How many Westerners fall in love with or agree to marry without meeting the other person at least once beforehand?

 

Is my request really so unreasonable?

 

You of course are right.  Meeting God is the beginning and it usually starts off with fairly little knowledge though it doesn't have to.  Faith is not blind or stagnant.



#1400 platypus

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Posted 29 July 2015 - 11:30 PM

So why do people "meet God" in so many religions? 



#1401 shadowhawk

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Posted 29 July 2015 - 11:31 PM

I've prayed the sinner's prayer, and once I'd meant it. I've lowered myself to believing, for a moment, that when I address whatever God may be out there, that I might be talking to more than the wall. I've done this several times, often when I was poorly off emotionally, and eventually realized that there was no help to be had.

Perhaps it is in your attitude of lowering yourself.  Knowing God is not an emotional crutch either.  I suggest you start off with the same prayer I did.



#1402 shadowhawk

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Posted 29 July 2015 - 11:33 PM

 

The people I know who have done this have an experience similar to mine.  Christianity did not become the largest human organization on the planet without something happening.  You get what you want.  Do you want to know God?

I'd rather know if there is a god

 

Not ask a question in my head 

 

That would be nice.  How are you going to do that?



#1403 Vardarac

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Posted 29 July 2015 - 11:45 PM

I've tried communicating with whatever God there might be (and how do we know there's only one if deities exist, anyway?) in several different ways, both before and after I would consider myself an atheist, sometimes humble and curious, others cynical or despondent. At no point have I received anything I could construe as a response from anyone.


Edited by Vardarac, 29 July 2015 - 11:46 PM.


#1404 shadowhawk

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Posted 29 July 2015 - 11:48 PM

So why do people "meet God" in so many religions? 

 

Christianity, Islam, the Jewish and Hindu faiths are all or significantly monotheistic.,   That covers the vast majority of humanity.  One God.  There are many smaller monotheistic religions as well.  Most fields of science have competing schools which do not agree with each other on every point.  This not the exception.  So you are going to have to sort it out just like everything else.  If there is evidence for God, then which God?  http://www.longecity...-47#entry738264

 

 



#1405 shadowhawk

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Posted 30 July 2015 - 12:00 AM

I've tried communicating with whatever God there might be (and how do we know there's only one if deities exist, anyway?) in several different ways, both before and after I would consider myself an atheist, sometimes humble and curious, others cynical or despondent. At no point have I received anything I could construe as a response from anyone.

Again I mentioned some problems with the way you are lowering yourself to even consider God.  I can tell you if you simply put your small faith in God He will meet you.  He has billions.  Keep growing and remember Atheism is a faith choice as well.



#1406 platypus

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Posted 30 July 2015 - 12:02 AM

Since people of many denominations "meet God" it seems the choice of religions matter little? Surely God would not meet people in the "wrong" religions..?


Edited by platypus, 30 July 2015 - 12:02 AM.

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#1407 shadowhawk

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Posted 30 July 2015 - 12:11 AM

Since people of many denominations "meet God" it seems the choice of religions matter little? Surely God would not meet people in the "wrong" religions..?

Most denominations vary little and were created largely by historical events.  We wouldn't say viewpoints matter little on any other subject and they do with religion.  God does meet people where they are at.  We grow in understanding throughout our lives.



#1408 The Brain

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Posted 30 July 2015 - 01:35 AM

God only exists from belief.....

#1409 shadowhawk

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Posted 30 July 2015 - 02:32 AM

God only exists from belief.....

To use your word.  Proof. 



#1410 sthira

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Posted 30 July 2015 - 03:24 AM

Certainly you are willing to meet her without full knowledge. We do not have anything close to full knowledge about anything. Even if you found out you liked her enough to marry her, you would be far from knowing her fully. When I became a Christian it was just like this. I was raised in a strong Atheist home and had no faith. There was no God. One night when on the back seat of a bus, in a rain storm I said this prayer. "God , if there is a God and if there is one, I don't have any faith, or perhaps a very very little. I put it in you." I meet God and my life has never been the same. We can argue tell the sun comes up and I love to do it but it comes down to faith. Any one who wants to meet God can with only a little faith. You will have doubts along the way, but you can know and experience God.

I think it's beautiful that you have found God. Honestly, I very much think you've found a precious gem.

And I wish all of us could find God, and I wish that the God we could all find would be a loving God. A God who is beautiful, a God who would not tolerate such vast, pointless suffering. A God who would relieve us of some of that heartbreak you feel. I feel. Our planet is so very precious, yet look at the mess we've made of it.

Since you have found that beautiful God we seek, maybe you could say a prayer for the rest of us who are not so lucky. Maybe you could use some of the divine faith we lack to help relieve a little of the world's suffering. Small things first. I'll bet that everyone here who has searched honestly for God would be more than happy to have your kindness and prayers and in such small ways. Even we who don't know if God exists or not, we who doubt, we who hate God, why not be kind to us with your divine knowledge and power you claim rather than hatefulness you so often display here? Where is your love, Shadowhawk?

I pray to God everyday to God to God to God -- even though -- like many others here have plainly stated -- I've never found any trace of divinity. No answers for me. Silence. God's silence. I don't know if God exists or not -- and my prayers to God find me no closer to faith in God. My prayers to God to help heal the suffering world feel like wasted time and dashed hope. My prayers seem to do nothing for anyone, for anything. My prayers are so constant yet feel so fragile, so fleeting, so very much like uselessness. I even wonder if the act of prayer to the silent God is a mental disease I've somewhere acquired. Yet to offer relief to the suffering of sentient creatures -- help us even in some tiny way, please help, dear God -- this mantra remains my consistent daily prayer. Sometimes I pray all day long -- truthfully, maybe in deep mental sickness -- and in every action I take I say to myself let this be my humble prayer to the vast, unimaginably huge God of the universe. Yet still God appears as nothing to me. Deadness.

Since my prayers haven't worked, I'll try your prayers, Shadowhawk, and maybe through your prayers I'll move in closer to the faith you've found. We've nothing to lose by praying, we've no faith, nothing to lose beyond the hope already lost.

I wish I was more eloquent -- and I know some of these words may sound like some silly, cheese-ball bullshit. But I do mean my words, they're not empty and they're not lies, they're uttered with absolute sincerity. So what if they're melodramatic and exaggerated: I search for God with my open and deeply broken heart.

Rumi:

"Dear soul, if you were not friends with the vast nothing inside, why would you always be casting your net into it, and waiting so patiently?"

Edited by sthira, 30 July 2015 - 03:42 AM.






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