16 replies to this topic

[riloal]

Hi, i had low DHEA levels in a blood test. My cortisol was fine. Yesterday i decided to start a DHEA supplement 10mg. After two hours of taking it, i had an hyploglicemic episode. Why? Anyone here it,s with DHEA suplements? What are the benefits? What are the side effects? Thanks

[nowayout]

My DHEA also tested low, but I found supplementing it (oral and transdermal) bereft of benefit and a waste of time and money. There are some threads here, the short summary of which is that nobody really experienced any great benefit from it.

Edited by viveutvivas, 02 March 2012 - 01:57 PM.

[hav]

Hi, i had low DHEA levels in a blood test. My cortisol was fine. Yesterday i decided to start a DHEA supplement 10mg. After two hours of taking it, i had an hyploglicemic episode. Why? Anyone here it,s with DHEA suplements? What are the benefits? What are the side effects? Thanks

Maybe WebMD might shed some light on your reaction... there's some mention of it impacting insulin metabolism:

http://www.webmd.com...ngredientId=331

Howard

[nowayout]

Maybe WebMD might shed some light on your reaction... there's some mention of it impacting insulin metabolism:

http://www.webmd.com...ngredientId=331

This WebMD article is full of unproved claims, as well as some claims falsified by research. Not a good source of information, at all.

The Mayo clinic has a somewhat more evidence-based writeup: http://www.mayoclini...ECTION=evidence, as does Sloan-Kettering: http://www.mskcc.org...epiandrosterone. You'll see that several of the claims made by WebMD are contradicted by the evidence.

Edited by viveutvivas, 02 March 2012 - 06:26 PM.

[hav]

Maybe WebMD might shed some light on your reaction... there's some mention of it impacting insulin metabolism:

http://www.webmd.com...ngredientId=331

This WebMD article is full of unproved claims, as well as some claims falsified by research. Not a good source of information, at all.

The Mayo clinic has a somewhat more evidence-based writeup: http://www.mayoclini...ECTION=evidence, as does Sloan-Kettering: http://www.mskcc.org...epiandrosterone. You'll see that several of the claims made by WebMD are contradicted by the evidence.

Those look like pretty good reference sources too. They all seem to shed light on OP's blood sugar reaction. Curious as to which claims on WebMD you're referring to.

Howard

[nowayout]

Maybe WebMD might shed some light on your reaction... there's some mention of it impacting insulin metabolism:

http://www.webmd.com...ngredientId=331

This WebMD article is full of unproved claims, as well as some claims falsified by research. Not a good source of information, at all.

The Mayo clinic has a somewhat more evidence-based writeup: http://www.mayoclini...ECTION=evidence, as does Sloan-Kettering: http://www.mskcc.org...epiandrosterone. You'll see that several of the claims made by WebMD are contradicted by the evidence.

Those look like pretty good reference sources too. They all seem to shed light on OP's blood sugar reaction. Curious as to which claims on WebMD you're referring to.

Howard

Well, for example, everything in even just the first two paragraphs on the WebMD writeup consists of debunked nonsense:

DHEA is used for slowing or reversing aging, improving thinking skills in older people, and slowing the progress of Alzheimer’s disease.

Athletes and other people use DHEA to increase muscle mass, strength, and energy.

[hav]

I don't think the usage observations on the Overview tab are WebMD recommendations or evaluations. Just mention of common usages. The Usage tab however does seem to contain their evaluations. And looks like it reflects the research you have in mind. Kind of a confusing presentation.

Howard

[nowayout]

I don't think the usage observations on the Overview tab are WebMD recommendations or evaluations. Just mention of common usages. The Usage tab however does seem to contain their evaluations. And looks like it reflects the research you have in mind. Kind of a confusing presentation.

I agree, it is confusing. I am pretty sure the great majority of unsophisticated readers will not grasp the distinction and will come away with the impression that WebMD endorses those uses as medically justified. I am not sure that this isn't in fact intentional on the part of WebMD. Bad WebMD! Very bad WebMD!

Edited by viveutvivas, 02 March 2012 - 09:15 PM.

[riloal]

Hi, thank you for the info. Today i took my dose and didn,t have an hypoglicemic issue, but now i have a sinusitus issue. But probably it,s not related to DHEA. Anyone else with DHEA supplements with some benefits?

[Lufega]

I tested low for DHEA a few years ago, which I ignored until now. I started using 10 mg pregnenolone, however, as it appears to be safer than straight DHEA.

[riloal]

Hi, today i wake up still with this nasal congestion, anyone else had experiences with supplementation of dhea? Thanks

[albedo]

I tested low for DHEA a few years ago, which I ignored until now. I started using 10 mg pregnenolone, however, as it appears to be safer than straight DHEA.

I am deficient in DHEA (male, 56), hence supplementing with a low (physiological) dose 25 mg. I just wonder (and please do not take me an expert here, this should be discussed with an endocrinologist): I think supplementing with precursors is always good idea (do you have a study supporting your safety claim? would appreciate) but if pregnenolone converts to DHEA (via 17-OH pregnenolone) it also cascades to progesterone and then cortisol and corticosterone, hence a complete key steroid hormone testing should be done.

[Nooby]

I found DHEA extremely fatiguing. Anyone else?

[Lufega]

I tested low for DHEA a few years ago, which I ignored until now. I started using 10 mg pregnenolone, however, as it appears to be safer than straight DHEA.

I am deficient in DHEA (male, 56), hence supplementing with a low (physiological) dose 25 mg. I just wonder (and please do not take me an expert here, this should be discussed with an endocrinologist): I think supplementing with precursors is always good idea (do you have a study supporting your safety claim? would appreciate) but if pregnenolone converts to DHEA (via 17-OH pregnenolone) it also cascades to progesterone and then cortisol and corticosterone, hence a complete key steroid hormone testing should be done.

Read some Ray Peat articles and felt convinced that pregnenolone is the way to go. Just increases DHEA along with androgens and estrogens leaves out the protective effects of pregnenolone and the necessary effects of cortisol and aldosterone. Seems that keeping these in balance is a better alternative. Cortisol gets a really bad wrap but it's an essential hormone. I tried blocking conversion to cortisol by using relora with the preg. and it made me feel very lethargic.

Edited by Lufega, 28 March 2012 - 09:14 PM.

[albedo]

I tested low for DHEA a few years ago, which I ignored until now. I started using 10 mg pregnenolone, however, as it appears to be safer than straight DHEA.

I am deficient in DHEA (male, 56), hence supplementing with a low (physiological) dose 25 mg. I just wonder (and please do not take me an expert here, this should be discussed with an endocrinologist): I think supplementing with precursors is always good idea (do you have a study supporting your safety claim? would appreciate) but if pregnenolone converts to DHEA (via 17-OH pregnenolone) it also cascades to progesterone and then cortisol and corticosterone, hence a complete key steroid hormone testing should be done.

Read some Ray Peat articles and felt convinced that pregnenolone is the way to go. Just increases DHEA along with androgens and estrogens leaves out the protective effects of pregnenolone and the necessary effects of cortisol and aldosterone. Seems that keeping these in balance is a better alternative. Cortisol gets a really bad wrap but it's an essential hormone. I tried blocking conversion to cortisol by using relora with the preg. and it made me feel very lethargic.

Thank you for the lead. Did not know about Ray Peat. When reading http://raypeat.com/a...-hormones.shtml I still need to be convinced. It hard to make a decision to supplement without testing. E.g. when he says "..Pregnenolone is largely converted into two other "youth-associated" protective hormones, progesterone and DHEA. At the age of 30, both men and women produce roughly 30 to 50 mg. of pregnenolone daily..." I think you need to test your levels first. In my case I have a higher that normal progesterone hence pregnenolone is not efficiently converting to DHEA and that is what I should probably target and look at all other hormones in cascade. He also gives about 1/2 of what I thought being the physiological dose of DHEA "...Young people produce about 12 to 15 milligrams of DHEA per day,..." but he quotes himself as Endocrine Physiologist, specializing in hormonal changes in stress and aging.. so he must know a great deal more than me. Thank you again for your reply.

[Lufega]

Agreed! I tested my levels of DHEA and Test. a few years ago. Testosterone was in the 300s, definitely low. I feel pretty silly having ignored this for as long as I did. I started using 10 mg preg. and after a few weeks, finally started making gains at the gym. This was the missing link for me this whole time! I increased to 20 mg this week and plan to go up to 30 mg in a month or so. BTW, if you take vitamin C along with pregnenolone, it favors DHEA production. Guess this is why some brands include vitamin c with the pregnenolone.

Modulation of neurosteroid synthesis/accumulation by L-ascorbic acid in rat brain tissue: inhibition by selected serotonin antagonists.

Roscetti G, Del Carmine R, Trabucchi M, Massotti M, Purdy RH, Barbaccia ML.

Source

Department of Neuroscience, University of Rome Tor Vergata, Roma, Italy.

Abstract

We have investigated the possibility that the synthesis/accumulation of neurosteroids, i.e., brain-produced steroids putatively endowed with modulatory actions in the CNS, is regulated by monoaminergic receptor-mediated mechanisms. In minces of rat brain cortex, L-ascorbic acid concentration-dependently (0.07-1.0 mM) increases the levels of pregnenolone, allotetrahydrodeoxycorticosterone, and dehydroepiandrosterone. This effect of L-ascorbic acid is region-dependent: in hippocampus, progesterone and allopregnanolone are also increased, whereas dehydroepiandrosterone is unchanged, and in corpus striatum only progesterone is increased significantly. 5-Hydroxytryptamine (10 microM), 1-(3-chlorophenyl)piperazine (1.0 microM), and 5-methoxytryptamine (0.4 microM) mimic the effect of L-ascorbic acid, whereas a pretreatment with p-chlorophenylalanine (400 mg/kg i.p., 2 days) reduces the amplitude of the L-ascorbic acid effect on brain cortical neurosteroids.

The effect of L-ascorbic acid is blocked by the nonselective serotonin antagonists methiothepin, clozapine, methysergide, and pizotifen, but not mesulergine, spiperone, MDL 72222, and DL-propranolol, nor by the catecholaminergic receptor antagonists prazosin and S(-)-sulpiride. L-Ascorbic acid is not additive with dibutyryl-cyclic AMP and, furthermore, the inhibition of adenylate cyclase by MDL 12330A, but not of phospholipase C by U-73122, markedly attenuates the L-ascorbic acid-induced increase of pregnenolone in rat brain cortical minces. Together these data suggest that L-ascorbic acid plays a role in the modulation of neurosteroidogenesis, presumably by favoring the activation of the purported serotonin type 6 receptor by endogenous serotonin.

[TheSpawn]

I tested low for DHEA a few years ago, which I ignored until now. I started using 10 mg pregnenolone, however, as it appears to be safer than straight DHEA.

I am deficient in DHEA (male, 56), hence supplementing with a low (physiological) dose 25 mg. I just wonder (and please do not take me an expert here, this should be discussed with an endocrinologist): I think supplementing with precursors is always good idea (do you have a study supporting your safety claim? would appreciate) but if pregnenolone converts to DHEA (via 17-OH pregnenolone) it also cascades to progesterone and then cortisol and corticosterone, hence a complete key steroid hormone testing should be done.

Read some Ray Peat articles and felt convinced that pregnenolone is the way to go. Just increases DHEA along with androgens and estrogens leaves out the protective effects of pregnenolone and the necessary effects of cortisol and aldosterone. Seems that keeping these in balance is a better alternative. Cortisol gets a really bad wrap but it's an essential hormone. I tried blocking conversion to cortisol by using relora with the preg. and it made me feel very lethargic.

Thank you for the lead. Did not know about Ray Peat. When reading http://raypeat.com/a...-hormones.shtml I still need to be convinced. It hard to make a decision to supplement without testing. E.g. when he says "..Pregnenolone is largely converted into two other "youth-associated" protective hormones, progesterone and DHEA. At the age of 30, both men and women produce roughly 30 to 50 mg. of pregnenolone daily..." I think you need to test your levels first. In my case I have a higher that normal progesterone hence pregnenolone is not efficiently converting to DHEA and that is what I should probably target and look at all other hormones in cascade. He also gives about 1/2 of what I thought being the physiological dose of DHEA "...Young people produce about 12 to 15 milligrams of DHEA per day,..." but he quotes himself as Endocrine Physiologist, specializing in hormonal changes in stress and aging.. so he must know a great deal more than me. Thank you again for your reply.

Thank You very much for that page :

http://raypeat.com/articles/


.... i didn't knew it before - very interesting !

All the best
Spawn

Edited by TheSpawn, 31 March 2012 - 02:54 PM.