65 replies to this topic

[Kevnzworld]

Ok you seem to be suggesting one thing while avoiding another... So let me ask you this:

Would you suggest that ptero is a good compliment to Tylonal?


A

So far no response to my question about Ptero and Tylonal. Will this combination hurt your liver?

A

Tylenol depletes the liver of glutathione , causing damage if taken in excess. Pterostilbene hasn't been shown to have any liver toxicity, or deplete glutathione.
I wouldn't take any acetaminophen product because of it's liver toxicity, but I was to, taking Pterostilbene wouldn't cause me additional concern.

"Dietary administration of high doses of Pterostilbene and Quercetin to mice is not toxic "
http://pubs.acs.org/....1021/jf803579e

More about pterostibene :
http://www.lef.org/m...veratrol_01.htm

Pterostilbene the dimethylether analog of resveratrol is 400% more bioavailable
http://www.springerl...7l201q552623v0/

[Anthony_Loera]

Since Ptero seems to try to disable your bodys ability to fight toxicity from Tylonal, then caution is in order when taking Pterostilbene along with some common drugs.

Thank you for your incomplete answer. I was asking about the combination after all.

You know another combination i wouldnt suggest? Sulfuic acid, nitric acid and glycerin... I hear it can be volatile.

A

Edited by Anthony_Loera, 17 September 2012 - 07:25 PM.

[Kevnzworld]

This study shows that methionine restriction INCREASES glutathione in rats ( hepatoprotective ), and increases lifespan 44%.

" Methionine restriction increases blood glutathione and longevity in F344 rats "
http://www.fasebj.or...8/15/1302.short

Tylenol poisoning and glutathione depletion
http://www.scienceda...21014072451.htm

Edited by Kevnzworld, 17 September 2012 - 07:32 PM.

[Anthony_Loera]

That's great, but does not talk about contraindications of Ptero.

Specially important since you would have to be a rat that starts taking it since early childhood.

I am not sure there is any extension of life for most of us that are educated enough to avoid contraindications and want to consider it at middle age...

A

Edited by Anthony_Loera, 17 September 2012 - 07:36 PM.

[Kevnzworld]

That's great, but does not talk about contraindications of Ptero.

A

I can not find any contraindications in the literature for Ptero. I did find a study that shows that it could increase glutathione levels, and thus protect the liver from toxic substances like Tylenol.
Either way, the amounts most people take for it's beneficial effects have been shown in the study I provided to be non toxic.
There are no studies that I could find that showed any toxicity, or contraindications.

[zorba990]

Seems to be pretty safe
http://www.prnewswir...-158846455.html

and more bioavailable the TRes.
http://www.altmedrev...ns/15/2/159.pdf

pterostilbene is not known to be toxic or cause adverse effects in humans. In mice fed trans- pterostilbene for 28 days at doses up to 3000 mg/ kg body weight/day, equivalent to 500 times the estimated mean human intake (25 mg/day), no significant toxic effects or adverse biochemical parameters were noted, compared to controls.
Ruiz MJ, Fernández M, Picó Y, et al. Dietary administration of high doses of pterostil- bene and quercetin to mice is not toxic. J Agric Food Chem 2009;57:3180-3186.

mostly from
http://en.wikipedia....i/Pterostilbene

As someone who consumes a least a pound of organic blueberries a week, I'd like to see any negative toxicity studies for sure....

Edited by zorba990, 17 September 2012 - 08:02 PM.

[aim1]

When i think about Ptero, i imagine it as a big headed cartoon character, in the cartoon i can see that Ptero is Resveratrol's little brother that simply has down syndrome. He may always be smiling, happy... But is limited to just being associated whith his big brother Resvertrol who i envision as a genius king in robes and regalia that commands legions of genes to do his bidding... In my imagination, most other genes point at ptero and feel bad.

To me little ptero has not shown any more potential than Acai.

Might be one of the dumbest things I've read on this site in a long time.
I am guessing you were drunk when you wrote this?
Kind of confirms my thoughts of you from the get go.

I guess you don't sell Pterostilbene?

[Anthony_Loera]

Why?

Do you have such a low opinion of Acai?

Or... you simply don't like the way I imagine Ptero?



I have yet to see enough evidence to consider Ptero, and some that suggests it could have adverse effects with meds.

What studies have convinced you that this Ptero product really is a good product for the price?

A

Edited by Anthony_Loera, 18 September 2012 - 12:20 AM.

[Anthony_Loera]

Look guys,

Yes you caught me... I am definitely not a fan of Ptero.

It's too darn expensive for what it does and unlike you aim1, I have the ability to buy it wholesale!

To tell you the truth, I would feel like I would be completely ripping people off at this stage, if I created a product with that ingredient considering all the current information that is available for it. For the Price, Curcumin and Reseratrol are much more effective in my book as they have a tidal wave of studies that can be confirmed and peer reviewed. I believe even C60 and Olive Oil may prove to be a much better as well regarding longevity and anti-oxidant capabilities.

So yes, I do not sell it... I still am not convinced there is anything special about it. Other cheaper supplements mentioned here in the supplement forum have a better history and more studies.

Will I sell it in the future? If it's found to extend life in animals better than C60oo, then I sure will.
So far, I haven't seen any longevity study... and since Chromadex came out with it more than 2.5 - 3+ years ago... well, shouldn't there already be one with at least high calorie diet in rats to compare against resveratrol?

Maybe, it was done and simply failed to live up to the Res comparison? Who knows... I do know who actually makes it for them in india. I have also had some history with Jeremy Bartos, who is the Ptero Manager over at Chromadex and his boss... so yes, even though I know these folks... I will still require that they have good peer reviewed longevity studies, before I will consider it.

And for those wondering, the Ptero that is created in the lab in india is done through a synthetic fermented process and not through any extraction from natural plants or blueberries. But I think everyone already knew that. The Resveratrol we tested from the same indian company a couple years back, tested very well, so that is not an issue for me.

Cheers
A

Edited by Anthony_Loera, 18 September 2012 - 01:05 AM.

[Kevnzworld]

Ya, and given your earlier posts Anthony, you weren't up on the current research . The comparisons to Acai, and the Tylenol thread went nowhere. Acai is a fruit, not a polyphenol..so I never understood that comparison. I do like Acai fruit juice though.
Like I posted earlier...petrostilbene, has it's benefits , like it's stilbene cousin, resveratrol . Neither are the king ( your characterization ) they are just warriors in the army. I prefer to employ an army.

My question is.: why did you have to be such an Ahole, before knowing what you were talking about?

Edited by Kevnzworld, 18 September 2012 - 03:56 AM.

[smithx]

According to this study, petrostilbene was beneficial to the livers of diabetic rats:
http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/17132211

A search of "acetominophen AND pterostilbene" produced no results.

This recently published article concludes that:

Neither resveratrol nor pterostilbene increased sirtuin 1 (SIRT1) expression or downstream markers of sirtuin 1 activation. Importantly, markers of cellular stress, inflammation, and AD pathology were positively modulated by pterostilbene but not resveratrol and were associated with upregulation of peroxisome proliferator-activated receptor (PPAR) alpha expression. Taken together our findings indicate that at equivalent and diet-achievable doses pterostilbene is a more potent modulator of cognition and cellular stress than resveratrol, likely driven by increased peroxisome proliferator-activated receptor alpha expression and increased lipophilicity due to substitution of hydroxy with methoxy group in pterostilbene.

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/21982274

Edited by smithx, 18 September 2012 - 06:17 AM.

[Anthony_Loera]

Hi Kevnzworld,

My last post was a commentary about Ptero, but my issue with liver damage still stands if people take meds with it.

Your opinion on Pterstilbene and mine differ. Calling me names because you don't like what i say shows folks i got under your skin, and that i may have a point.

Cheers
A

Oh, and sometimes it gets you banned.

[smithx]

Hi Kevnzworld,

My last post was a commentary about Ptero, but my issue with liver damage still stands if people take meds with it.

Your opinion on Pterstilbene and mine differ. Calling me names because you don't like what i say shows folks i got under your skin, and that i may have a point.

Cheers
A

Oh, and sometimes it gets you banned.

I also think that your postings of the last few days were extremely troll-like. If anyone should be banned, it's trolls.

You failed to post a single link to a study or even one piece of information supporting your claim that pterostilbene could cause liver damage. (You also managed to misspell pterostilbene and acetaminophen multiple times.)

Instead, you made multiple repetitive snarky posts implying there is some danger without actually providing anything to support that idea.

How about responding to my post above where I linked to an article indicating that pterostilbene is actually protective of the liver? I certainly haven't researched this compound extensively as of yet, but if it really could be dangerous, please post some evidence so that people can make an informed decision.

Or if you don't actually have any information indicating that pterostilbene could be dangerous, how about not spreading random FUD (Fear, Uncertainty and Doubt)?

[Anthony_Loera]

I asked questions about Ptero and Tylonal combination, because of Ptero's ability to downregulate methionine while methionine is needed to prevent poisoning from meds like Tylonal... and no one cared to answer or verify that is (or is not) possible.

I know you are pretty smart SmithX... so can you help clear this up?

A

As far as spelling, please excuse me as I have been using my phone to make most of my replies. It certainly doesn't mean my question is invalid.

Edited by Anthony_Loera, 18 September 2012 - 08:23 PM.

[Logic]

Is there any supp you do 'like' but don't sell Anthony?

[Anthony_Loera]

Why yes, i do like many.

B12, Magnesium, A lot of Vitamin C (two or more grams a day), Lithium (I had it in Vimmortal, but don't presently sell it), Boswelia, Portulaca Oleracea, C60oo, Some Astragalus extracts, terminalia chebula, nicotinamide riboside... along with a few others.

Cheers
A

[Kevnzworld]

I asked questions about Ptero and Tylonal combination, because of Ptero's ability to downregulate methionine while methionine is needed to prevent poisoning from meds like Tylonal... and no one cared to answer or verify that is (or is not) possible.

I know you are pretty smart SmithX... so can you help clear this up?

A

As far as spelling, please excuse me as I have been using my phone to make most of my replies. It certainly doesn't mean my question is invalid.

I thought I answered that question with the studies I cited previously. Yes, methionine is given to people suffering from Tylenol poisoning to temporarily increase GSH , levels, as is NAC. There is no evidence that by down regulating the genes involved with methionine metabolism that glutathione levels are affected. There is evidence of the OPPOSITE.
http://www.mendeley....vity-f344-rats/
There is no evidence of Pterostilbene toxicity. There is evidence that it is non toxic, at high doses
http://www.mendeley....mice-not-toxic/

However, ( Anthony take note ), there is one aspect of Pterostilbenes chemopreventive effects which may effect the metabolism of Tylenol. It inhibits CYP 450 ( phase1 ), while increasing phase2 detoxification ( GSH ). This activity is chemoprotective as described in this study. One would think that by up regulating phase 2 detox enzymes that there shouldn't be a problem. There is nothing that specifically addresses this.


http://docsdrive.com...012/456-461.pdf

Edited by Kevnzworld, 18 September 2012 - 10:54 PM.

[Logic]

Why yes, i do like many.

B12, Magnesium, A lot of Vitamin C (two or more grams a day), Lithium (I had it in Vimmortal, but don't presently sell it), Boswelia, Portulaca Oleracea, C60oo, Some Astragalus extracts, terminalia chebula, nicotinamide riboside... along with a few others.

Cheers
A

thx.
Besides a good multi-vit and essentials, I take:
200mg Resv
100mg Ptes
200mg GSE
200 mg Circ
split in 2 doses.

I'll remember not to take Tylenol etc. with it.

Edited by Logic, 19 September 2012 - 12:03 AM.

[Anthony_Loera]

Why yes, i do like many.

B12, Magnesium, A lot of Vitamin C (two or more grams a day), Lithium (I had it in Vimmortal, but don't presently sell it), Boswelia, Portulaca Oleracea, C60oo, Some Astragalus extracts, terminalia chebula, nicotinamide riboside... along with a few others.

Cheers
A

thx.
Besides a good multi-vit and essentials, I take:
200mg Resv
100mg Ptes
200mg GSE
200 mg Circ
split in 2 doses.

I'll remember not to take Tylenol etc. with it.

Hi Logic,

I will let you know that when chromadex comes out with nicotinamide riboside (as they recently bought exclusive patent license for its production), I will probably be the first in line to buy it and make a product from it, I am just not a fan of Ptero cause others still seem better for the price.

Cheers
A

[smithx]

Anthony,

It's fine that you're not a fan of pterostilbene, but it's not fine that you post random unsupported intimations that some compound which you don't sell may be unhealthful. And then threaten to ban someone who calls you out on it.

If you really feel it's appropriate to act like a jerk here and if you really have the power to ban anyone who disagrees with you, perhaps it's true that this is secretly your forum, as some have claimed?

I don't want to be paranoid, but this was really egregious and it makes me wonder.

[hav]

Hi, smithx. I assume Anthony's referring to this study about Methionine deficiency:

Oz HS, Chen TS, Neuman M (2008), "Methionine deficiency and hepatic injury in a dietary steatohepatitis model", Digestive Diseases and Sciences 53 (3): 767–776, doi:10.1007/s10620-007-9900-7, PMC 2271115, PMID 17710550.

In light of this study which mentions ptero's methionine effect:

Transcript profiling studies revealed that pterostilbene exposure significantly down-regulated the expression of genes involved in methionine metabolism, while the expression of genes involved in mitochondrial functions, drug detoxification, and transcription factor activity were significantly up-regulated. PMID: 18366703 [PubMed] PMCID: PMC2330146

Given that the ptero study was in vitro using a 70 muM concentration on yeast cells I'm not clear on what effect to expect with oral consumption. But to play it safe, taking ptero with a some silymarin might function as a little insurance... PMID 22633099.

Howard
.

[Kevnzworld]

Hi, smithx. I assume Anthony's referring to this study about Methionine deficiency:

Oz HS, Chen TS, Neuman M (2008), "Methionine deficiency and hepatic injury in a dietary steatohepatitis model", Digestive Diseases and Sciences 53 (3): 767–776, doi:10.1007/s10620-007-9900-7, PMC 2271115, PMID 17710550.

In light of this study which mentions ptero's methionine effect:

Transcript profiling studies revealed that pterostilbene exposure significantly down-regulated the expression of genes involved in methionine metabolism, while the expression of genes involved in mitochondrial functions, drug detoxification, and transcription factor activity were significantly up-regulated. PMID: 18366703 [PubMed] PMCID: PMC2330146

Given that the ptero study was in vitro using a 70 muM concentration on yeast cells I'm not clear on what effect to expect with oral consumption. But to play it safe, taking ptero with a some
silymarin might function as a little insurance... PMID 22633099.

Howard
.

Howard ;
I understand Anthony's argument. There is no evidence that by down regulating genes involved with the metabolism of methionine , that a hepatic threatening methionine deficiency results. This would have shown up in the rat toxicology study that I posted showing no toxicity, even at high doses.
There is no evidence of glutathine depletion either, in the last study I posted, evidence of phase 2 liver detoxification (GSH ) was increased by Ptero.
By the way, if you read the end of the paragraph in the study I posted that you reference, genes
involved with drug detoxification were upregulated by ptero. That more specifically speaks to his
question regarding tylenol and ptero.
I love Silymarin, and it's part of my polyphenol stack.

[FILY]

This is what I've found so far, Anyone have any ideas on which one to buy? or to add to the list.

Jarrow..50mg, 60 caps, $17
Life Extension...100mg, 60 caps,$21
Biotivia....100mg, 30 caps, $50
Thorne...50mg, 60 caps, $44
BAC...5% powder, 50g, $9.75
Ormes...200mg, 60 caps, $24
CPmedical.net....50mg, 60 caps
Miracle greens...10oz bottle,
Solaray....25mg, 30 caps, $17
Douglas labs....30 caps $49
Med Nutraceutics 100mg,60 caps, $30
Blu science...50mg, 60 caps, $26
Ebiochem....1kg 99% powder...$1000
Vitamin research...50mg, 30 caps, $39

suunyfarm...... 1kg 99% $500/kg

[maxwatt]

Tylenol and generic versions deplete the liver's store of N-acetyl-cysteine (NAC) which is only a problem with doses on the order of two grams or more. It does provide pain relief as a pg1 inhibitor. It does not relieve inflammation as does aspirin, which relieves pain by a different route, but neither does it cause gastric bleeding. If you take massive amounts of Tylenol the treatment is high doses of NAC. I'm not sure where methionine enters into it.

But I would avoid pterostilbene at this point. There are synthetics out of Shanghai, produced by bacterial fermentation as well as Chromades' extract, but I have reports of joint pain more frequent and even worse than what has sometimes been reported for resveratrol, and additional reports of disorientation following large doses. The substance has not been trialed on humans to the extent resveratrol has. I would avoid it until more in vivo work is reported in more complex organisms than yeast using a gene analysis array.

Edited by maxwatt, 27 September 2012 - 04:37 AM.

[aim1]

Clinical Study Showed a Blueberry Antioxidant, pTeroPure^® (pterostilbene), Significantly Reduced Blood Pressure in Adults

- Efficacy Data for ChromaDex^®’s Patented pTeroPure^® Presented at American Heart Association’s High Blood Pressure Research 2012 Scientific Sessions -

IRVINE, Calif. – September 20, 2012 – ChromaDex^® Corporation (OTCBB: CDXC) announced today findings from a Phase 2/3 trial at the University of Mississippi Medical Center showing its patented nutritional ingredient pTeroPure^® (pterostilbene) significantly reduced blood pressure in adults. The findings from the study, the first clinical trial of the pure compound, were presented today at the American Heart Association’s High Blood Pressure Research 2012 Scientific Sessions.[1] pTeroPure, which was named the 2010 North American Most Promising Ingredient of the Year by the independent research company Frost & Sullivan, is a nature-identical form of pterostilbene, an antioxidant found in blueberries.

“We saw reduced overall blood pressure in patients who received the high dose of pterostilbene,” said the study’s principle investigator, Daniel M. Riche, PharmD, Cardiometabolic Clinic Coordinator at the University of Mississippi School of Pharmacy. “The results of this study highlight that pterostilbene is a promising ingredient in the area of cardiometabolics.”

Pterostilbene is believed by many experts to show great promise for supporting heart health,[2]^{,[3],[4],[5],[6]} cognitive function,[7]^,[8] anti-aging,[9]^,[10] weight loss and other metabolic disorders. Pterostilbene has superior biological activity,[11]^{,[12],[13],[14],[15]} better oral bioavailability[16]^,[17],[18] and metabolizes more slowly in the body than other antioxidant polyphenols (substances from plants that tend to prevent or neutralize the damaging effects of free radicals), resulting in more prolonged antioxidant activity.[19]^{,[20],[21],[22]}

The study, a double-blind, placebo-controlled trial, included 80 adults averaging 54 years of age with high cholesterol (total cholesterol of 200 or greater and/or LDL cholesterol of 100 or greater). Most participants were women (71%) and some had been diagnosed with high blood pressure (55%). The mean average baseline systolic blood pressure (BP) was 127.4 mmHg and the mean average baseline diastolic BP was 79.3 mmHG. The American Heart Association guidelines state that >119 mmHg systolic BP and >79 mmHg diastolic BP are classified as pre-hypertensive.[23] Twice daily, participants received high (125 mg) doses of pterostilbene, low (50 mg) doses of pterostilbene, pterostilbene (50 mg) with grape extract (100 mg), or placebo. The investigators assessed participants’ blood pressure, body weight and blood lipids at the beginning and end of the study.

By the end of the study, participants in the high-dose pterostilbene group (250 mg/day) achieved significant reductions in BP compared to placebo: 7.8 mmHg in systolic BP (p < 0.01) and 7.3 mmHg in diastolic BP (p < 0.001), without serious adverse events. The only change in lipids was an increase in LDL cholesterol with pTeroPure (24.9 mg/dL, p < 0.001), which was less among participants on cholesterol-lowering medication and was not seen among those who also received the grape extract. Participants not on cholesterol medication also achieved a minor average reduction in body weight (reduced body mass index 0.59 kg/m²) with pTeroPure. ChromaDex plans to conduct further studies specific for weight reduction to evaluate this trend.

[Ames]

I'm bumping this thread because the conversation regarding pterostilbene being a possible methionine restriction mimetic is compelling. We don't know how significant or prolonged such methionine metabolism disruption has to be to lend significant health benefits. A small disruption could lead to good results without being large enough to negatively affect parameters such as glutathione, if such a thing is a risk at any dose of pterostilbene.

That being said: the trolling here, by a vendor vested in resveratrol, is ridiculous. First, Anthony, you aren't qualified to lend a medical opinion about the interaction between Tylenol and pterostilbene, let alone harangue thread participants into giving their mostly unqualified opinions. Second, you aren't a lawyer and have no business throwing around the term "criminal negligence" in your over-emotional, strangely crafted tirade (complete with cartoon characters). If drug interactions and glutathione depletion were the bar for the supplement industry being "criminally negligent, then we wouldn't have a supplement industry because of all of the potential lawsuits. You pose a strange argument for someone engaged in selling supplements.

[hav]

But I would avoid pterostilbene at this point. There are synthetics out of Shanghai, produced by bacterial fermentation as well as Chromades' extract, but I have reports of joint pain more frequent and even worse than what has sometimes been reported for resveratrol, and additional reports of disorientation following large doses. The substance has not been trialed on humans to the extent resveratrol has. I would avoid it until more in vivo work is reported in more complex organisms than yeast using a gene analysis array.

I've found an affordable source of ptero... Sun Nootropic operated by Suzhou Vosun Chemical Co.,Ltd which is a Chinese pharmaceutical company. They don't supply independent coa so, take that fwiw. Don't know anything about their production method or licensing. In any event I've been adding ptero to my resveratrol stack in equal amounts of a gram a day split into morning and evening doses for about 5 or 6 months now. Fwiw, when I ran out of resveratrol recently and soloed on ptero for about 4 or 5 weeks, I got no attack of joint pain. When I did the same thing a few years ago with polydatin as the solo, joint pain set in big time after about 3 weeks and went away when I restocked resveratrol. No disorientation experienced here. Or any other overt physical effects.

Howard

Attached Files

•  COA_Pterostilbene-1.pdf   130.16KB   8 downloads

Edited by hav, 21 December 2013 - 09:52 PM.

[blood]

I've been adding ptero to my resveratrol stack in equal amounts of a gram a day split into morning and evening doses for about 5 or 6 months now... No disorientation experienced here. Or any other overt physical effects.

Howard

Did you notice any changes in your blood pressure or LDL levels that you could attribute to the pterostilbene?

By the end of the study, participants in the high-dose pterostilbene group (250 mg/day) achieved significant reductions in BP compared to placebo: 7.8 mmHg in systolic BP (p < 0.01) and 7.3 mmHg in diastolic BP (p < 0.001), without serious adverse events. The only change in lipids was an increase in LDL cholesterol with pTeroPure (24.9 mg/dL, p < 0.001), which was less among participants on cholesterol-lowering medication and was not seen among those who also received the grape extract. Participants not on cholesterol medication also achieved a minor average reduction in body weight (reduced body mass index 0.59 kg/m2) with pTeroPure.

Edited by blood, 22 December 2013 - 11:14 AM.

[hav]

I've been adding ptero to my resveratrol stack in equal amounts of a gram a day split into morning and evening doses for about 5 or 6 months now... No disorientation experienced here. Or any other overt physical effects.

Did you notice any changes in your blood pressure or LDL levels that you could attribute to the pterostilbene?

No bp change. Subsequently adding in aged garlic extract a couple months ago knocked it down around 10 or so however. Haven't tested ldl levels since then... probably will again around next April.

Howard

[hav]

Also, here's a pic of what I got when I sprayed a little ptero and resveratrol with 20% chlorine bleach solution at Maxwatt's suggestion... the red one is resveratrol:

 resv_ptero_20131222_151128_511.jpg   153.6KB   11 downloads

Howard

Edited by hav, 22 December 2013 - 08:49 PM.