478 replies to this topic

[golden1]

Just saying I know I said it before, but you guys are all taking an unlabeled chemical. Find the ingredient that makes it work and buy it or a better one in bulk , if you want a real stimulant without a prescription.

2 of the best examples I can think of overall:

4-fluoroamphetamine (10-40mg= cleaner dextroamphetamine study dose range, higher = recreational(same as dexamp))
http://en.wikipedia....uoroamphetamine

2-dpmp (1-5mg, all day simple wakefulness, like very clean coffee, structurally very close to ritalin(methylphenidate)(DO NO MESS UP DOSE OR YOU WILL BE AWAKE FOR DAYS)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2-DPMP

How do you find them? I would try "[chemical cas number or name] [500mg/1g/10g]" as a google and find a "non-professional" chemical retailer(not a huge lab, they won't do it)

Then you know what dose of what chemical you are taking, get it much much cheaper, and avoid anything else in the mix that you don't want.
Just saying as this mix seems kind of dangerous being so close to a real stimulant and the side effects and not knowing what chemical is even causing it all.
What if it's 4-bromoamphetamine(fluoro, is the only halogen that isn't extremely neurotoxic(closer to regular amp imo, can read nichols paper on it) when subbed on amp) :P
or some other stimulant that if you knew what it was you would definitely stay away. As an example there are many chemicals with either not enough prior use, not enough information on them, or
a structure that raises bells and whistles as being dangerous that I avoid, where as with this you have no idea.. right?

anyway, I don't agree with taking stimulants before working out... lol. Maybe before doing something like a bike ride, where it will decrease the difficulty/increase the fun.. but otherwise idk.. haha.
And taking them in general is terrible for brain health, nothing to be over concerned about, but certainly not a nootropic or healthy for the brain, just saying .

[medievil]

Desoxypipradol is crazy shit works way to long and can make you go psychotic easily when taken too much.

Rather go for 3FA or ethylphenidate when wanting a rc stimulant.

[golden1]

Yes, but if you take it carefully it is rather harmless and useful. Just have to take in the morning. Trust me I know what you are talking about, when I had 7mg I was up for 3 days unable to sleep, but when I kept it under 4mg it was all fine. Good warning though. Another one would be that, most likely, no one knows the exact pharmacological action of.. well any drug, but no one knows anything about the actions of this mix or many of the drugs I mentioned which is a red flag considering that many drugs DO turn out to be horribly harmful in some way(you can see how many drugs don't make it through safety testing and how many pass and moved on on many pharma company websites if you look hard enough. A lot end up failing the tests in some horrible way, and even some that are/were approved turn out to be rather toxic in some way, so you can imagine the risks when using drugs with no pharmacological or even normal toxicity testing).

Regardless,
I think 2-fa is better focus wise when compared to 3-fa(which is more recreational, from my experience), btw. Have you tried ethylphenidate? If so, useful? I read some sub-opitimal reports about it.(I feel like it was the less active isomer being sold everywhere? I guess I should just look it up now). I was really interested in that one for awhile, until I read early reports, but maybe it changed. I prefer to use 4-fa in lower doses despite the higher serotonin activity than dex amp because it has the most published on it and a longish record of use(and very similar subjective effect and binding affinity to dexamphetamine). 5-10mg of aMT is useful too, but not nearly as focusing as 4-fa/2-fa.

I'm sorry if all this is off topic for this message board, but I figured considering this topic is basically the same thing except we don't know the active chemical, that discussing actual active chemicals would, if anything, be harm reduction. Just so everyone understands my logic because I know this board can be rather strict with somethings(I understand). But then again some are also talking about ingesting buckyballs already in another thread, so I'm not sure which is really crazier.. :P

[Junk Master]

I'm sorry if all this is off topic for this message board, but I figured considering this topic is basically the same thing except we don't know the active chemical, that discussing actual active chemicals would, if anything, be harm reduction. Just so everyone understands my logic because I know this board can be rather strict with somethings(I understand). But then again some are also talking about ingesting buckyballs already in another thread, so I'm not sure which is really crazier.. :P

I, for one, really appreciated the candor of your post and your point about buckyballs above.

I'd love to see this forum limit censorship and push the envelope when it comes to mental enhancement.

Edited by Junk Master, 04 June 2012 - 05:07 AM.

[Major Legend]

I don't know about you guys but i've been getting odd left chest pains since taking this stuff once (i'm hyper sensitive to meds), not any numbing or breathlessness going on, but not a good side effect seeing as I don't get those on amphetamines (when I tried them). It feels more like a mini panic or intercostal muscle cramping than heart pain, but never the less its alarming that its still going on days afterwards, might be safer to just stick to classic amphetamines. (tried and tested safety)

[golden1]

It could be stomach pain too. I say this especially because stomach/gut issues pretty much feel like mild panic sometimes. Maybe like combo + whatever is in the mix + appetite supression, Just one guess.
Another possibility could be not enough electrolytes/vitamins/energy/magnesium/water.
Or muscle strain from the stimulation, or it's not that good for your heart...? hahah could be more than one.

If you anyone finds the active(if theres more than one, the active that is responsible for most of the effects) ingredient let us know.. would be interesting to see what they used.



OK:
http://www.bodybuild...orts/craze.html
http://newhope360.co...um-legit?page=2
dendrobium:
http://jpet.aspetjou...ontent/55/3/319
http://www.scripps.e...lley_Feb_04.pdf
Naringenin:
http://en.wikipedia....wiki/Naringenin
PEA
caffeine
creatine
and.....
N-methyltyramine ( This is almost certainly the most active as far as I can tell. It is methylphenethylamine with a -OH added to the 4-position on the ring. )
http://en.wikipedia....-Methyltyramine

"NMT has been shown to be an agonist of the TAAR1, similarly to its parent compound tyramine.<sup>[3]"

TAAR1 is a receptor that amphetamine hits and it is stimulatory.

NMT is metabolized to http://en.wikipedia....wiki/Synephrine which is adrenic agonist and TAAR1 agonist.

TAAR1 receptor:</sup>

TAAR1 and dopamine transporters (DAT) are colocalized in substantia nigra dopamine neurons of mice and rhesus monkeys.^[7]

The currently accepted rank order of ligand affinity for brain hTAAR1 is as follows: p-tyramine>B-PEA>octopamine>m-tyramine>dopamine>tryptamine>histamine>serotonin>norepinephrine.^[2][3][9] The EC50 values for cAMP production caused by p-tyramine and B-PEA binding events are 214 and 324 nM, respectively.^[3] Dopamine and serotonin have a 5 to 25-fold lower potency than either p-tyramine or B-PEA.^[4] The discrepancies in ligand potency may act to balance the differences in monoamine concentrations, common amines being less potent than trace amines.

^{http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/19892733}
also:
<sup>http://en.wikipedia....nisms_of_action


http://forum.bodybui...35268991&page=1</sup>

N-Methyltyramine most importantly has the properties of an α2-adrenoceptor antagonist, albeit a weak one. α2 blockers significantly increase adrenergic, dopaminergic and serotonergic neurotransmitters, increase insulin secretion and decrease blood sugar levels. The usage of N-Methyltyramine also leads to an increase in blood pressure, relaxation of the ileum, an increase in force of the right atrium due to norepinephrine release, and an increase in rate of contraction in right atrium due to norepinephrine release.

Summary

N-Methyltyramine is the methylated version of L-Tyramine, a naturally occurring monoamine compound that acts as a catecholamine releasing agent. It is known to:

• Significantly increase adrenergic, dopaminergic and serotonergic neurotransmitters by acting as an indirect sympathomimetic amine.

• Increases insulin secretion and decreases blood sugar levels.


• Increase plasma and myocardial cGMP and cAMP levels.

Hope that helps.

Edited by golden1, 04 June 2012 - 11:48 AM.

[medievil]

Did anyone find craze abolished anhedonia in anyone suffering from it? Does it feel dopaminergic or neergic like DMAA?

[X_Danny_X]

This thing is giving me morning wood and a little bit of anxiety. It is nothing special though since I have felt my brain heavy and dense, almost like it is ready to go to work, with other products. So in short, this is basically stimulating my brain no different than other products. In terms of effectiveness I just have to wait and see.

[Major Legend]

Anhedonia doesn't feel affected, though there is an element of ritalin like apathy (not as strong as ritalin), it feels dopaminergic, but not neergic at all.

[Zato]

Has anyone here tried Ultima? it's supposed to be a non-stimulant. Attached is the ingredient list I'm just getting into nootropics but so far they have been pretty ineffective for me e.g. oxiracetam, bacopa, choline, inositol, b-vitamins. My goal is to cycle caffeine every other day with a non-stimulant. Ultima seems to have a lot of good reviews from BB forums. I've ordered craze and ultima I'll update this when I get them in 2 weeks.

heres a link to the image http://www.omegaspor...cts/ultima.html

Edited by Zato, 07 June 2012 - 02:54 PM.

[knutsayang]

Has anyone here tried Ultima? it's supposed to be a non-stimulant. Attached is the ingredient list I'm just getting into nootropics but so far they have been pretty ineffective for me e.g. oxiracetam, bacopa, choline, inositol, b-vitamins. My goal is to cycle caffeine every other day with a non-stimulant. Ultima seems to have a lot of good reviews from BB forums. I've ordered craze and ultima I'll update this when I get them in 2 weeks.

heres a link to the image http://www.omegaspor...cts/ultima.html

Let us know how it goes please. Thanks!

[What'sAllThisThen]

Has anyone here tried Ultima? it's supposed to be a non-stimulant. Attached is the ingredient list I'm just getting into nootropics but so far they have been pretty ineffective for me e.g. oxiracetam, bacopa, choline, inositol, b-vitamins. My goal is to cycle caffeine every other day with a non-stimulant. Ultima seems to have a lot of good reviews from BB forums. I've ordered craze and ultima I'll update this when I get them in 2 weeks.

heres a link to the image http://www.omegaspor...cts/ultima.html

I've tried it and didn't really notice anything beyond placebo possibilities. A couple caveats though: 1. I'm a non-responder to just about everything, including pre-workouts. If I do respond to substances, it's just a feeling, nothing really ever helpful. 2. Supposedly it works better after taking it for awhile and I was having inconsistent workouts at the time. Plus, I never experimented with more than one scoop.

Edited by What'sAllThisThen, 08 June 2012 - 04:57 AM.

[Junk Master]

I'll guarantee you if you take two scoops of Craze you'll laugh at the idea of a placebo effect!

I experimented with two scoops in the morning and a scoop and a half at night yesterday. You definitely do develop a tolerance as I had no trouble sleeping.

I'm beginning to think multiple 1/2 scoop doses, say once every 3 hours, might be the best choice for Nootropic users.

I still think it's great as a pre-aerobic supplement. Take it right before a run and you'll feel an amazing "second wind" about 35-40 minutes in.

[Zato]

I'll guarantee you if you take two scoops of Craze you'll laugh at the idea of a placebo effect!

I experimented with two scoops in the morning and a scoop and a half at night yesterday. You definitely do develop a tolerance as I had no trouble sleeping.

I'm beginning to think multiple 1/2 scoop doses, say once every 3 hours, might be the best choice for Nootropic users.

I still think it's great as a pre-aerobic supplement. Take it right before a run and you'll feel an amazing "second wind" about 35-40 minutes in.

I believe Craze is a stimulant, prob strong one at that. Ultima(non-stim) I really doubt it will do anything for me as someone has said he was a non-responder to it. Ultima is my last go at non-stim "nootropics" since its a mix of a number of the most effective nootropics. I've only had a little luck with niacin/lemon concetrate mix for a non-stim nootropic.

[health_nutty]

Craze, seems like it has the protential to be very very unhealthy. Be careful guys!

[tintinet]

I took /2 scoop of Craze this AM, 20 minutes pre-workout. An aerobic day for me- I alternate weight routines and aerobic workouts. I noticed no effect from the Craze during the workout (45 minutes with intervals of varying intensity.) Later, after showering and during pre-breakfast guitar practice (45 minutes), I thought I might be a bit more focused than usual, but this perception is quite subjective and subtle. I don't much like the grape flavor, and it seems to linger.

[Introspecta]

What I found to help with craze was to make sure I kept my sugar levels up with Apples and bananas. Don't be afraid to eat 4-8 bananas. Don't be afraid to eat 3-5 apples in a day. That combined with a large amount of water kept me hydrated and not too irritable do to low blood sugar levels. Caffiene and other ingredients in craze have blood sugar lowering effects which can cause depression, irritability etc. The people that say eating 5 bananas in one sitting is too much have no problem eating 5 pieces of pizza which I find kind of funny.

[Galantamine]

N-methyltyramine ( This is almost certainly the most active as far as I can tell. It is methylphenethylamine with a -OH added to the 4-position on the ring. )
http://en.wikipedia....-Methyltyramine

N-Methyltyramine (NMT) is not the active. The para-hydroxyl completely precludes BBB penetration.

Detailed NMT pharmacology: http://hightowerphar...yltyramine.html

[zeropoint]

Finally got my Craze so will try to post results....

Things were mentioned that I have tried for focus, thus my ratings....*poor focus to ****good focus
ethylphenidate****(equal to methylphenidate,less peripheral side effects)
4-FMA**(too serotinergic,but good mood lift/antidepressant effects)
2-FMA***(less serotinergic)
1,3 Dimethylamylamine*(weaker than ephedrine)
appetite suppresion is a plus in my book as I need to lose weight

Edited by zeropoint, 10 June 2012 - 02:14 AM.

[tintinet]

Day 2 for me: 1 scoop 30 minutes before resistance work out (free weights). One hour work out duration.

What I noticed: Stuff tastes awful. I don't know why they bother to flavor it. No other effects noted. No increased focus, energy, appetite suppression. Nada.

[Junk Master]

You must have a monster tolerance to stims. Go to two scoops.

[tintinet]

Day 3: 1.5 scoops 30 minutes before cardio work out (45 minutes, with intervals). I think it tasted even worse and got the same results: none. I must be a total non-responder.

[Junk Master]

Try 2 1/2 scoops and if you still don't feel increased focus, you my friend, are a non-responder.

[Zato]

Try 2 1/2 scoops and if you still don't feel increased focus, you my friend, are a non-responder.

I don't recommend taking more than 2 scoops, I'm sure he is a non-responder since maximum per day is 2 scoops. I would have guessed for focus 1/2-1 scoop would have been enough.

[unregistered_user]

How is everyone doing? I'm still getting minor chest pains that come and go.

[Major Legend]

Is anything getting worse? I stopped it because I really didn't like the chest pain side effect, could be harmless but not willing to take the risk. If there was no chest pain, I think i'd take it every now and then

seems like another poor adderall substitute.

[tintinet]

I read one review on Amazon, where, BTW, Craze has a 4+ star rating, by someone who felt nothing at 2 scoops, IIRC, then tried 2.5 scoops and had a bad reaction. So I think I'll just give it a break for a while and try 2 scoops at some point in future.

[medievil]

I wonder what its like stacked with amp.

[Junk Master]

I was thinking stacked with modafinil.

[health_nutty]

You guys are going to kill yourselves.