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Preworkout Stimulant as Nootropic? Damn!

preworkout stimulant nootropic contraindications

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#331 Kolin

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Posted 02 November 2012 - 04:29 AM

I don't work out, so I probably have no business on this site, but since this was the thread that convinced me to go get Craze, I figured I owed it to whoever might be browsing to post my story.


(This is the start of the long-winded version. You can skip to the stars if you're only here to read about Craze.)


The phrase that jumped out at me was "like Adderall at the gym". Again, I don't work out, and even though I love playing sports, I don't play as often as I'd like. But I have PTSD (got diagnosed when I signed up for a paid PTSD study), anxiety, and general lack of motivation, and I've spent years thinking there was nothing that could help me. I didn't want to get put on meds that would make me fat and compound my problems. But I knew I wanted more than the way things were (are).

I only heard about Adderall about six weeks ago. I actually thought "Limitless" was completely the stuff of dreams. But there it was, again and again in forum after forum: this magic pill that helps you do anything, everything, and more importantly, helps you feel better.

Naturally, I wanted it. I was even more excited when I found out that PTSD symptoms mirror ADHD symptoms, and that Adderall has been prescribed, off the record, for both anxiety and depression. I was desperate to get it.

The trick was (and is), no insurance. No insurance, no doctor's visit, no prescription. And I didn't think buying it off the street or the web was a good idea.

So I wandered around, googling this and that, and someone in some thread was like, "Well, pre-performance supplements work just as well as drugs!"

So I googled a bit more and found this thread.

I read the whole thread, took note of all the pros and cons, then bought Craze on Amazon that same evening. When it got to my place two days later, I was sitting there, having just eaten a bunch of junk a couple of hours ago (a whole pack of waffles w/syrup, blah, blah, blah), and was feeling pretty lethargic.

(A little more background info: I was in the middle of a move, with two days left to get everything together. So I definitely shouldn't have just been sitting around. But that's the nature of the beast; there's a lot you'd like to do, but just can't seem to make yourself.)

Here we go, I thought. Let's see if this stuff works.



* * * * * *


So I carefully measured out a scoop, mixed it in a glass of water, and braced myself for the worst. Everyone had said it tasted horrible, so I was ready for anything. But it's just like some sort of grape-ish Tang; really not bad at all.

So after the scoop of Craze, I went back to my chair and sat down. A few minutes later I got back online. But about ten minutes after that...

Out of the corner of my eye, I suddenly noticed some sort of smudge on the wall that had been there for months. I'd seen it tons of times, but didn't feel like doing anything about it.

But all of a sudden, I was like, "I could just get a sponge and clean it up." So I did. And then I looked to the left and saw more disorder. "What's that doing there? That shouldn't be there. I can just put it away."

All at once, everything was so easy. Obstacles that would have usually stopped me didn't even phase me. The whole afternoon (and evening, and late night) was one long stream of "I could just".

"That chair is in my way. I could just move it."
"It bothers me that that table is dirty. I could just clean it."
"I need to sell these things on Craigslist, and I only have one more day. I could just post ads."

So I did. I ended up taking another scoop about an hour after the first one, but then I was "driven" for the rest of the day, like a little machine. All the while, I just kept watching myself in amazement. I was organizing. I was getting things done. A friend called me, and even though I enjoyed the conversation, my head kept turning towards the work I still needed to do. (Lest everyone think it was silly to be so focused on cleaning, again, I was moving in two days, and I had done next to nothing.) Best of all, I felt calm and quiet, with no anxiety or stress or anything. It was... so cool.


But it was only that one day.


I tried it again the next day, and I felt jittery and tired. (To be fair, it could have been how little I slept that first evening.) I read about magnesium helping counteract tolerance, so I went out and got some, and it was easier to get to sleep that night; the first night, my heart was thudding in a pretty weird way. I still got a lot done, but nothing like that first day. I've read about people spending their whole lives trying to recreate their first 'high', and now I know how they feel. I'd give anything to have a day like that again.


These days, when I take Craze, it has a pretty intense laxitive effect, and the "focused" feeling only lasts about ten minutes, followed by irritability.

I'm trying to eat better (more protein, fewer carbs), so I don't think that's it. I ordered the promotional AddieUP tablets, too, but those just give me a headache.

So there we are. That's my experience with Craze as a a nootropic. I'm going to keep tweaking it every week or so (a half-scoop? on an empty stomach? two hours after eating?) until I get it right, or until I run out of it.


Someone said it's a Gaba-inhibitor. Does that mean if I take Gaba, it will work again?


Anyway, I realize this wasn't exactly body-building material, but maybe it'll be helpful to someone.

Edited by Kolin, 02 November 2012 - 04:34 AM.

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#332 Gorthaur

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Posted 02 November 2012 - 05:37 AM

Kolin -
I've been using Craze as a productivity enhancer for two months now. I consistently get 4-5 hours of energy and focus off of one scoop. To prevent tolerance, I only use it two days a week, and I never exceed two scoops in a day. A three day break should be all you need to eliminate tolerance, or maybe a week tops. As caffeine is an important ingredient in Craze, it's best to completely eliminate all other sources of caffeine. A good night's sleep is always important, as are consistent blood sugar levels. Though Craze will reduce appetite, it's very important to eat every three hours, preferably a meal including complex carbohydrates and protein. I suggest taking one scoop on an empty stomach half an hour before eating.

Supplementing with GABA will not enhance the effects by any means - it will mostly just make you tired. (I've tried it lots of different ways.) To counteract anxiety and jitteriness, try 200 mg of L-Theanine per scoop of Craze. If you are low on dopamine and norepinephrine (which is very likely if you have anxiety, since your adrenals will be taxed by your body spending so much time in a fight-or-flight state), L-Tyrosine will help, but keep in mind that tolerance will develop rapidly. Unfortunately, there are no safe stimulants that work on a daily basis. Adderall can provide great results for months at a time, but at the cost of permanent neurotoxicity to dopaminergic neurons. It's not worth it, according to countless young people on this forum who are trying to recover from Adderall.

Edited by Gorthaur, 02 November 2012 - 05:37 AM.

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#333 Kolin

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Posted 02 November 2012 - 09:08 AM

Thank you so much for your thoughtful reply, Gorthaur. I'd forgotten that Craze has caffeine in it, and I don't think I've ever taken it on an empty stomach, 30 minutes before eating.

I've been googling far and wide, and learned about Piracetam (the original nootropic, apparently), among other things. I learned you're supposed to stack it with Choline, which you can find in lecithin. I also found out about a couple of expensive, pre-made blends. And then there's 5-HTP (I'm still not sure whether it or L-Tyrosine is better to take).

Definitely a lot of information to digest, but I'll keep trying until I find something that works. Life's too short to not feel better.
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#334 Brendo

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Posted 04 November 2012 - 01:08 AM

I found about 3-4 hours after taking craze it decreased my concentraion and made it difficult for me to think. I also found when I was on it i didnt feel like doing complex tasks like reverse park (not very complex but u know what i mean) and instead id drive around for ages lookin for an easier park lol.

#335 Kolin

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Posted 08 November 2012 - 03:57 AM

Well, after two more attempts with Craze (first thing in the morning, 30 minutes before eating), I think it's time to admit defeat. I waited a few days between each attempt, and while the first one gave me a faint sense of motivation for about ten minutes, the second didn't help at all. In fact, it made things much worse. I took magnesium and a b-vitamin, but I was still pretty much a basket case all afternoon. The good news is that I've been able to find out why this isn't the supplement for me. I read somewhere that Craze inhibits dopamine uptake (I may be getting the logistics of this wrong), somehow concentrating the stores of it, which creates that lovely calm, "in the zone" feeling. I think I'm all out of dopamine; or at least, I don't have enough to spare for something like this.

Anyway, I've been doing a lot of research, and I've discovered many better ways to get what I'm looking for. The Piracetam/choline stack looks promising (apparently, you're not supposed to take them at the same time), as does the DMEA/5-htp. I'm currently weighing the pros and cons of the two stacks (price, ease of use, tolerance, etc.). I'll supplement either one with green tea (for energy without jitters), fish oil (it somehow makes nootropics easier to absorb, though I again forget the logistics of how; something about the brain barrier) and the most bioavailable multivitamin I can find (I'm open to suggestions).

I also stumbled on information about products like Alpha Brain and Profiderall, but I see no need to pay top dollar for a product when I can apparently obtain the same results or better for much less money.

I'm saying all of this in case there's anyone out there like me, browsing the web in search of an answer to their focus and mood issues. I'm grateful to Craze for that one perfect day, because it showed me there is a way out of this fog without going the RX route (not such fun without insurance anyhow). But I think Craze is best used for its on-label purpose, namely, a killer workout. There are cheaper and more effective nootropics. Or so I read.

Bummer that I have half a container left, but given that without trying Craze and feeling incredible for the first time ever, I may have never thought to look into nootropics in the first place, I think it's money well-spent.

#336 RS3RS

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Posted 13 November 2012 - 05:55 PM

Well, after two more attempts with Craze (first thing in the morning, 30 minutes before eating), I think it's time to admit defeat. I waited a few days between each attempt, and while the first one gave me a faint sense of motivation for about ten minutes, the second didn't help at all. In fact, it made things much worse. I took magnesium and a b-vitamin, but I was still pretty much a basket case all afternoon. The good news is that I've been able to find out why this isn't the supplement for me. I read somewhere that Craze inhibits dopamine uptake (I may be getting the logistics of this wrong), somehow concentrating the stores of it, which creates that lovely calm, "in the zone" feeling. I think I'm all out of dopamine; or at least, I don't have enough to spare for something like this.

Anyway, I've been doing a lot of research, and I've discovered many better ways to get what I'm looking for. The Piracetam/choline stack looks promising (apparently, you're not supposed to take them at the same time), as does the DMEA/5-htp. I'm currently weighing the pros and cons of the two stacks (price, ease of use, tolerance, etc.). I'll supplement either one with green tea (for energy without jitters), fish oil (it somehow makes nootropics easier to absorb, though I again forget the logistics of how; something about the brain barrier) and the most bioavailable multivitamin I can find (I'm open to suggestions).

I also stumbled on information about products like Alpha Brain and Profiderall, but I see no need to pay top dollar for a product when I can apparently obtain the same results or better for much less money.

I'm saying all of this in case there's anyone out there like me, browsing the web in search of an answer to their focus and mood issues. I'm grateful to Craze for that one perfect day, because it showed me there is a way out of this fog without going the RX route (not such fun without insurance anyhow). But I think Craze is best used for its on-label purpose, namely, a killer workout. There are cheaper and more effective nootropics. Or so I read.

Bummer that I have half a container left, but given that without trying Craze and feeling incredible for the first time ever, I may have never thought to look into nootropics in the first place, I think it's money well-spent.


Yes, definitely recommend finding something healthier for the long term. Craze isn't bad to keep around when you need a little extra push on a Monday morning or for a study session, but I wouldn't recommend anyone take it on a regular basis -- especially long term. Take a few months off, and I'll bet those initial effects come back. Then just use it when you need an extra push if you want to use up the rest of your container (limit yourself to once a week, or even once every two weeks).

We don't know the exact mechanism through which Craze works, so it's hard to say -- but if it means anything, NMDA antagonism seems effective at resetting amphetamine tolerance. It may or may not be helpful with Craze tolerance / neurotoxicity, I have no idea. But it would be an interesting experiment, if Craze tolerance is in fact due to dopaminergic receptor downregulation.

I wish you luck in finding an alternative, but I feel like I should caution you that sustainable motivation and euphoria is a losing battle. Even with Adderall (one of the most motivational substances out there), tolerance to the initial euphoria and motivation is rapid (although the therapeutic effects remain for those who need them), requires on-going dose escalation to achieve, and is a downhill spiral from day one.

#337 Kolin

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Posted 13 November 2012 - 06:24 PM

Thanks for the helpful reply, RS3RS. I saw something somewhere about 5-HTP helping Craze work longer, or starting it working again, so I've decided to take that in the evening and B-12 in the morning (they work together), then give Craze a try on Friday, which would be over a week since my last attempt. If the reason it's not working is a lack of serotonin, as some suggest could be the case, adding 5-HTP should work, in theory.

If that doesn't help, I've heard great things about Focus XT, so I'll give that a shot. It looks like a completely different stack from Craze, so maybe I could cycle the two. If that doesn't work, I'll give the classic piracetam+choline stack a try, or else Lucidrol. Honestly, from everything I've read, Lucidrol looks the most like what I want, but I thought I'd save that for a last resort.

I hear what you're saying about sustainable results, but there seem to be a lot of people walking around who have managed to achieve what I'm going after, long-term. So I have to give it a try, because the alternative really isn't an option. I'm not trying to be a superhero, just get a bit of help in daily functioning (basic things like handling my chores, for instance). I've read that PTSD symptoms mirror those of ADHD, so it's possible that Adderall could really help me, but I don't have insurance, so I can't go the RX route.

#338 RS3RS

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Posted 13 November 2012 - 06:45 PM

Thanks for the helpful reply, RS3RS. I saw something somewhere about 5-HTP helping Craze work longer, or starting it working again, so I've decided to take that in the evening and B-12 in the morning (they work together), then give Craze a try on Friday, which would be over a week since my last attempt. If the reason it's not working is a lack of serotonin, as some suggest could be the case, adding 5-HTP should work, in theory.

If that doesn't help, I've heard great things about Focus XT, so I'll give that a shot. It looks like a completely different stack from Craze, so maybe I could cycle the two. If that doesn't work, I'll give the classic piracetam+choline stack a try, or else Lucidrol. Honestly, from everything I've read, Lucidrol looks the most like what I want, but I thought I'd save that for a last resort.

I hear what you're saying about sustainable results, but there seem to be a lot of people walking around who have managed to achieve what I'm going after, long-term. So I have to give it a try, because the alternative really isn't an option. I'm not trying to be a superhero, just get a bit of help in daily functioning (basic things like handling my chores, for instance). I've read that PTSD symptoms mirror those of ADHD, so it's possible that Adderall could really help me, but I don't have insurance, so I can't go the RX route.


I apologize for the caution on seeking euphoria / motivation -- I mixed up your screen name and thought you were another poster who was talking about this earlier. Don't mean to sound like you're trying to get high off of it! ;)

Please do post back with your results if you try it with 5HTP. I don't know if that will be long enough to reset tolerance or not (haven't really tested that myself to be honest), but the serotonin aspect does interest me.

I don't take Craze anymore, as I moved to a prescription for Adderall a while back instead, but the extent to which Craze improved my symptoms encouraged me to seek formal diagnosis and prescription treatment. Like you, I don't have insurance, so I wanted to make sure stimulants would improve my symptoms before spending a lot of cash (and Craze was one of the things that served as a proof-of-concept in that area). Adderall helped at first to an extent, but then an SSRI was added to my routine, and the two together are very synergistic for me. The SSRI treats my depressive sluggishness, and the Adderall gives me the focus, concentration and "spark" that I've always lacked.

Best of luck, and please do post back with your results. I'm sure we'd all benefit from as many anecdotes as possible.

#339 Kolin

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Posted 13 November 2012 - 07:32 PM

No worries at all, RS3RS; a lot of people are using 5-HTP in an attempt to get high and/or prolong their highs. Probably quite a bit of that is self-medication, too, but I'm not interested in making matters worse by adding withdrawal to the mix.

It's great you were able to get an Adderall prescription. I hope to replicate something like the SSRI+Adderall synergy you've found with some sort of focusing stim plus 5+HTP, so I'm eager to see how the 5-HTP+Craze stack works out. 5-HTP isn't available at the local store like I'd hoped it'd be (recently moved to a small town), so I'm going to have to order it online, which will push the experiment back a few days. But I'll definitely log my results when I have them. :)

#340 gizmobrain

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Posted 13 November 2012 - 07:56 PM

For those who found "hope" in Craze for beating anhedonia/low motivation, but can't see it lasting long term, I highly recommend the CILTEP regimen.

I currently take in the morning:

-10mg of 98% forskolin extract
-1-2 artichoke extract caps
-200mg of quercetin
-5mg adderall (though I recommend d-amphetamine if your doctor will go for it since it is more heart friendly)

I also take melatonin and magnesium l-threonate at night.

Once every week or two, I take a day or two off, and take 8mg of Galantamine from SmartPowders.

Don't kid yourself in thinking that a couple scoops of Craze is safer then 5mg of amphetamine. Also, without insurance, I was able to get a month's supply of Adderall from Walgreens for $11. The hard part is finding a cheap doctor. Since I already had been prescribed Adderall when I previously had insurance, my doctor was willing to give me a prescription without charging me for an office visit.

This stack has transformed my life.

Since this is a bit of a thread hijack, I recommend continuing any related conversation in the CILTEP thread.

Edited by zrbarnes, 13 November 2012 - 07:58 PM.

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#341 Endymion

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Posted 29 November 2012 - 01:48 PM

I've been using Craze as a productivity enhancer for two months now. I consistently get 4-5 hours of energy and focus off of one scoop. To prevent tolerance, I only use it two days a week, and I never exceed two scoops in a day. A three day break should be all you need to eliminate tolerance, or maybe a week tops. As caffeine is an important ingredient in Craze, it's best to completely eliminate all other sources of caffeine. A good night's sleep is always important, as are consistent blood sugar levels. Though Craze will reduce appetite, it's very important to eat every three hours, preferably a meal including complex carbohydrates and protein. I suggest taking one scoop on an empty stomach half an hour before eating.

To counteract anxiety and jitteriness, try 200 mg of L-Theanine per scoop of Craze. If you are low on dopamine and norepinephrine (which is very likely if you have anxiety, since your adrenals will be taxed by your body spending so much time in a fight-or-flight state).


This is all great advice. I think part of the subsequent tiredness and anxiety some people feel can be attributed to not eating while on Craze. It's difficult when your appetite is non-existent, but it certainly helps with preventing any of those sorts of problems.
It really helped me when I was writing my dissertation. It gave me the drive to put words on the page, but if I didn't quell the anxiety then that could make me procrastinate as a way of avoiding confronting the fear.

#342 medievil

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Posted 29 November 2012 - 02:04 PM

The last 2 times i had craze it just put me to sleep, even tried up to 6 scoops at once wich just knocked me out and seemed better as a sleep aid then valium, weird as the first time i tried it i had the good effects.

#343 Galaxyshock

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Posted 14 December 2012 - 02:06 PM

Tried Craze for the first time. Took 1 scoop. Definitely effective stimulant, I noticed enchanced perception, clarity, mental drive, focus. There was weightless feeling and difference in coordination. Senses were enhanced I perceived things happening in peripheral vision better and my hearing would sharply apprehend what direction and how far each sound was coming from in the gym. No significant increase in anxiety.

I don't find it or other heavily mentally stimulating substances that great for weightlifting though despite the focus being beneficial. I didn't notice strength increase but my forms were very steady and good. For training I prefer things that affect the body and muscles more, for example Eleuthero (Siberian Ginseng), Rhodiola, Ashwagandha, Muira Puama, amino acids like citrulline, creatine, even cayenne pepper.

I think Craze for me would have better use for studying or for my poker sessions. Maybe even socializing.

#344 Cephalon

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Posted 14 December 2012 - 10:29 PM

I'm currently using Craze on and off and it still works a charm ;) I use it for it's original purpose though. It didn't help me that much with studying lately. Piracetam is working pretty good at the moment, so is Oxyelitepro, AlphaT2 and PES Erase, so there is not much room for Craze right now :) selegiline will be next round, so still no more Craze :(

Did anyone mention Gaspari's new product "Detonate"?
It's more or less Craze in a pill. "Dendrobium" etc
Stuff should arrive next week so I will give a quick review ;)

Edited by Cephalon, 14 December 2012 - 10:31 PM.


#345 alexmgram

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Posted 28 December 2012 - 06:58 PM

So, I love craze so far. I hate the artificial crap in it tho. I asked DS if they would consider making a natural version, and they said no. So, I am going to make my own. I just need to figure out what to put in it for similar effects. This forum certainly has helped, but I want to be as sure as possible that I'm making it right.

So far it seems to me that what I will primarily need is:
Creatine
Betaine
Nitric oxide booster
Dendrobium extract
Citrus reticulata extract
Small amount of caffeine
It also seems I will need some sort of MILD MAO inhibitor, but I'm not sure if one of the previously named ingredients already is one.

The next thing I have to consider is the amounts of each ingredient I should use, as well as the potency of the extracts that I get.

I may be forgetting some factors, so please let me know if you can think of anything else that may help. Any help with dosages and whatnot will be greatly appreciated.


#346 Galaxyshock

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Posted 10 January 2013 - 06:42 PM

When Craze wears off I find I make several dumb coordination mistakes when I play a fast FPS game and just feel stupid but don't feel like caring about it either. While it doesn't crash you it can definitely give this comedown to dull and unintelligent state. Quite sneaky and nasty stuff, better be careful with it. I'm gonna stay away from it for now as I really don't wanna confuse my brain further so I'll just focus on improving the basics.

Edited by Galaxyshock, 10 January 2013 - 06:43 PM.


#347 dirdir207

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Posted 17 January 2013 - 08:47 PM

I have recently had remarkable success with DS craze. I originally sampled this product several months ago, and although the initial effects the first time I took the supplement were profound, on every subsequent day thereafter dosing lead only to confusion, depression, social withdrawl, lack of focus and extreme paranoia. Thus for the past month and a half my jar has simply been sitting dormant in my cabinet collection dust.

About a month ago I started treatment for depression and anxiety with generic citalopram 20mg. After giving the drug a few weeks to build up in my system I decided to retry craze on a whim. The effects were even better then the first time I sampled it, and since then, for several weeks now, I have been able to dose every day with the exact same effects, with no apparent rise in tolerance whatsoever. The effects I am experiencing are greatly increased drive, motivation, attention, focus, confidence, self esteem, complete abolishment of social phobia, diminishment of anhedonia and dramatically lowered behavioral inhibition. I am consistently very verbally fluent, witty and engaging, with a marked increase in genuine interest and focus on what others are saying. Craze gives me an almost irresistible urge to socialize which is very bazaar for me. Although I normally don't have any problems socializing and engaging in conversation despite my social anxiety, I don't normally actively seek it out, being highly socially anhedonic.

I attribute this turnaround of effects to a few different things. One SSRIs diminish depression anxiety and OCD like rumination, allowing me to enjoy the experience much more without the underlying depression, avoid the dopamine fueled frenzied ruminating thought loops I would often find myself stuck in, and diminishing the anxiety I would normally encounter with craze. My dopamine system is also likely more sensitive now due to the high levels of serotonin decreasing overall dopamine and re-sensitizing the autoreceptors. Nor-epinephrine is also likely much lower then baseline, further alleviating anxiety. SSRI's also have an instantaneous effect on modulating the amygdala, dampening reactivity to threatening stimuli and reducing fear, which in turn probably greatly diminishes any paranoia I may have had.

All in all I would definitely give DS craze an A+ at this point, and well certainly be ordering a jar when this one runs out.

#348 dirdir207

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Posted 17 January 2013 - 09:06 PM

Lack of tolerance may be due to co-administration of piracetam and MSG greatly potentiating the effects, though I would still have expected the effects to diminish at least somewhat, especially considering piracetam probably hastens tolerance despite its potentiation through its effects on NMDA receptors.

#349 Cephalon

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Posted 23 January 2013 - 05:54 PM

Did anyone mention Gasparis Detonate yet? It's more or less new and also has "dendrobium" in it. I find it even better for studying then Craze. It doesn't have that much caffein either, I guess it's 50-60mg. It comes from different sources (green coffee, green tea). Great stuff. Taken for longer then a week or so I experiance some dullness with both. It might be true that Dendrobium is anticholinergic as I read somewhere else. Supplementing with choline works, but you feel it pretty hard on the heart at sometime then. Mixing Detonate with Piracetam is amazing! Have to do a litle more "research" today, mixing it with noopept, aniracetam, etc.Taken with Phenibut it gives a really calm mental state with more focus one would have on phenibut (no idea it's sometimes called a nootropic, I feel good, but not smart or productive) with Detonate it's somewhat better.

Oh Detonate is Craze in a pill so to say ... (yes comes in capsules and you just take 1-2 .. no creatine, citruline or other "fillers")

Edited by Cephalon, 23 January 2013 - 05:56 PM.


#350 Endymion

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Posted 16 February 2013 - 04:21 PM

Mixing Detonate with Piracetam is amazing! Have to do a litle more "research" today, mixing it with noopept, aniracetam, etc.Taken with Phenibut it gives a really calm mental state with more focus one would have on phenibut (no idea it's sometimes called a nootropic, I feel good, but not smart or productive) with Detonate it's somewhat better.
Oh Detonate is Craze in a pill so to say ... (yes comes in capsules and you just take 1-2 .. no creatine, citruline or other "fillers")


Interesting, thanks for the tip. I've just reordered some Craze because I thought having to take 2 pills worked out as more expensive, but if you only need one then that sounds better than Craze.

The fact that phenibut works along with it suggests that GABA receptors aren't seriously interfered with...
I'm guessing it's more likely antagonism of glycine receptors that accounts for most of the effects, as mentioned previously by others.
In other words, it works similarly to strychnine. I guess the dose makes the poison though. I came across a post on another forum from a guy who reckons strychnine was used as a nootropic in the past.

#351 Galaxyshock

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Posted 19 February 2013 - 11:23 AM

Noopept is like an antidote to Craze for me. If I take some in the morning I barely get anything from Craze.

#352 Lolofatty

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Posted 26 February 2013 - 07:13 PM

I had high hopes for Craze- I need energy, motivation and FOCUS.

I was on Modafinil which worked AMAZINGLY for about 3 months, then the last month seemed to make my focus even worse and cause extreme shortness of breath (though energy and non-work related motivation was still great).

I wanted to use DS Craze as a replacement for Modafinil; from reading this thread it seemed to have everything i wanted:
-energy
-focus
-motivation
-awesome appetite suppression and weightless (things i experienced with Modafinil)

So far, I've been trying it for 3 day with one day off.
day one (weekend)- half a scoop: a little energy and motivation
day two (workday)- one scoop in the morning, one in the afternoon: Amazing euphoric feeling, no motivation or focus increase*
day three (workday)- two scoops in the morning: not as amazing euphoric feeling, no motivation or focus increase*

*I am able to focus extremely well on things not work-related (during work!). I zero in and all i want to do in research, research, research instead of getting my work done. It should also be said that I do love my job and don't understand my shift after 3 months on modafinil and now that i'm off of it. This brings me back to my younger years in school where I COULD NOT focus on anything except whatever i wanted to think about. I suspect I had/have ADD-pi but was able to deal with it in a better way after childhood...until now.

anyone have any suggestions? I have my current medication list in my profile

#353 Shulginstestsubject

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Posted 27 February 2013 - 04:34 PM

http://www.longecity...kgo-supplement/ anybody tried the supplement i am mentioning in this thread? I bought a tub of DS Craze back in November, but this was LONG after they "reformulated". People are speculating that it may have been spiked with something like N-Benzyl-2-Phenethylamine before the reformulation. I think N-Benzyl-2-Phenethylamine is a potent 5-ht2a agonist.

#354 Galaxyshock

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Posted 05 March 2013 - 11:04 AM

The theorized mechanism of action blocking lysine, taurine and beta-alanine seems legitimate as after Craze/Detonate I react quite paradoxally to my other "basic" pre-workout supplement that contains them as ingredients. Panax Ginseng seems to work for any paranoia, disorientation or overstimulation of dendrobium. Detonate contains Ginseng and thus feels healthier and more balanced.

Edited by Galaxyshock, 05 March 2013 - 11:04 AM.


#355 Galaxyshock

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Posted 11 April 2013 - 09:07 AM

Posted Image

what do you guys think of this?

Edited by Galaxyshock, 11 April 2013 - 09:07 AM.


#356 KoolK3n

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Posted 11 April 2013 - 12:08 PM

All that hype comparing Craze to Adderall is invalid now. Google "craze formula change". You guys know the ingredients list includes PEA with a MAOI. The pre workout stimulant still works for me but its nothing magical.

Edited by KoolK3n, 11 April 2013 - 12:08 PM.


#357 Erebus

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Posted 11 April 2013 - 01:01 PM

Posted Image

what do you guys think of this?


I don't think that there's much evidence for any of it. As far as their most important point is concerned: I have yet to see a single study which connects any of those dendrobium alkaloids with dopamine/NE release.

There is, however, evidence which suggests that Craze is spiked with an amphetamine analog.
http://patrickarnold...ess-over-craze/
http://patrickarnold...ess-over-craze/

#358 Endymion

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Posted 11 April 2013 - 01:10 PM

Posted Image

what do you guys think of this?


I don't think that there's much evidence for any of it. As far as their most important point is concerned: I have yet to see a single study which connects any of those dendrobium alkaloids with dopamine/NE release.

There is, however, evidence which suggests that Craze is spiked with an amphetamine analog.
http://patrickarnold...ess-over-craze/
http://patrickarnold...ess-over-craze/


Thanks for the links, that's interesting. I wasn't aware this new scandal was going on.

Does that mean this amphetamine analog is probably also in Gaspari's Detonate? I think others have reported effects quite similar to Craze. I think Detonate is based on Dendrobium.

#359 Erebus

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Posted 11 April 2013 - 01:45 PM

Posted Image

what do you guys think of this?


I don't think that there's much evidence for any of it. As far as their most important point is concerned: I have yet to see a single study which connects any of those dendrobium alkaloids with dopamine/NE release.

There is, however, evidence which suggests that Craze is spiked with an amphetamine analog.
http://patrickarnold...ess-over-craze/
http://patrickarnold...ess-over-craze/


Thanks for the links, that's interesting. I wasn't aware this new scandal was going on.

Does that mean this amphetamine analog is probably also in Gaspari's Detonate? I think others have reported effects quite similar to Craze. I think Detonate is based on Dendrobium.



Tough to say. First we'd need to assume that the reports coming out of Australia and Sweden are true. Now, this is plausible, to my way of thinking, but those reports have not been entirely proven just yet.

Personally, I would be very wary of "dendrobium". Nobody seems to know what the active ingredient is supposed to be... or even what particular species is used for the extract. (There are hundreds of dendrobium orchid species, and they differ markedly in their phytochemical constituents.) I have yet to see a single convincing scientific document which might even partially explain the effects of "dendrobium" extract as a stimulant. There's something very strange about that.

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#360 Galaxyshock

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Posted 11 April 2013 - 04:05 PM

Yeah that picture is clearly made for advertisement purposes as there are no references. In traditional chinese medicine some species of Dendrobium are used for treating certain conditions but not as stimulant if I'm correct. I think Gaspari had some studies made of their Detonate showing minimal adverse effects though. Will be interesting to see how this turns out.

There is evidence of bioactive ingredients in Dendrobium species:
http://www.ncbi.nlm....les/PMC2121637/

Edited by Galaxyshock, 11 April 2013 - 04:12 PM.






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