478 replies to this topic

[alexmgram]

whatever's in Detonate, maybe I should feel differently, but I honestly don't care what's in it, as long as it keeps working and as long as the FDA doesn't freak out and pull it.

The compound that is in Detonate and Craze is a designer drug and only 1 ketone away from a popular bath salt. The DEA will be more interested in this compound then the FDA. With that said, the FDA and other authorities (WADA) are already aware of its existence. Stock up while you still can.

Lots of people seem to try and make claims like this about these two products. As far as the ingredients state the main ingredients are dendrobium extract, which contains phenylethylamines, and b-phenylethylamine hcl. Phenylethylamine is a natural chemical and is produced in our brain regularly. So I am interested 1) as to which chemical you are referring to, and 2) where u found the actual evidence that proves this claim. If you have no proof then you are simply spreading rumors about great products, and should be more careful. I look forward to your response.

[Galantamine]

Lots of people seem to try and make claims like this about these two products. As far as the ingredients state the main ingredients are dendrobium extract, which contains phenylethylamines, and b-phenylethylamine hcl. Phenylethylamine is a natural chemical and is produced in our brain regularly. So I am interested 1) as to which chemical you are referring to, and 2) where u found the actual evidence that proves this claim. If you have no proof then you are simply spreading rumors about great products, and should be more careful. I look forward to your response.

The compound is called N,alpha-diethylbenzeneethanamine (N-ethyl-1-phenyl-butan-2-amine, in addition to its N-dealklyated derivative) and it has been verified to exist in Craze in Australia, Sweden, and the United States. The former 2 are public knowledge and the latter will be revealed soon.

Sweden: http://www.skl.polis...rodukten-Craze/
Australia: http://www.smh.com.a...?skin=text-only ; http://www.asada.gov.../sanctions.html

And more information: http://patrickarnoldblog.com/

[alexmgram]

Lots of people seem to try and make claims like this about these two products. As far as the ingredients state the main ingredients are dendrobium extract, which contains phenylethylamines, and b-phenylethylamine hcl. Phenylethylamine is a natural chemical and is produced in our brain regularly. So I am interested 1) as to which chemical you are referring to, and 2) where u found the actual evidence that proves this claim. If you have no proof then you are simply spreading rumors about great products, and should be more careful. I look forward to your response.

The compound is called N,alpha-diethylbenzeneethanamine (N-ethyl-1-phenyl-butan-2-amine, in addition to its N-dealklyated derivative) and it has been verified to exist in Craze in Australia, Sweden, and the United States. The former 2 are public knowledge and the latter will be revealed soon.

Sweden: http://www.skl.polis...rodukten-Craze/
Australia: http://www.smh.com.a...?skin=text-only ; http://www.asada.gov.../sanctions.html

And more information: http://patrickarnoldblog.com/

I have heard of both the Australian tests, which I thought were disproved, and the more recent Swedish ones. Both interesting. However, you said both Gaspari's Detonate and DS's Craze were found to have that chemical. These studies speak only of craze correct? So how do u know that Detonate, a product made by a different company, has this in it as well?

[Galantamine]

I have heard of both the Australian tests, which I thought were disproved, and the more recent Swedish ones. Both interesting. However, you said both Gaspari's Detonate and DS's Craze were found to have that chemical. These studies speak only of craze correct? So how do u know that Detonate, a product made by a different company, has this in it as well?

The Australian tests were not disproved. In fact, they were reaffirmed as recently as last week (See Debbie Keen; ASADA).

[alexmgram]

I have heard of both the Australian tests, which I thought were disproved, and the more recent Swedish ones. Both interesting. However, you said both Gaspari's Detonate and DS's Craze were found to have that chemical. These studies speak only of craze correct? So how do u know that Detonate, a product made by a different company, has this in it as well?

The Australian tests were not disproved. In fact, they were reaffirmed as recently as last week (See Debbie Keen; ASADA).

Right. But that still doesn't say anything about Detonate then, correct?

[Galantamine]

Right. But that still doesn't say anything about Detonate then, correct?

Here is an update..

I had a lab make the standard for ETHamphetamines (aka -ethyl-1-phenyl-2-butylamine, N,alpha-diethylbenzeneethanamine or N,alpha-diethylphenethylamine) and today I was told there are HIGH LEVELS detected in Gaspari’s Detonate product.

http://www.thermolife.com/forum/post40648-208/

[norepinephrine]

Picked up some Detonate and gave it a try today. Honestly, if it legitimately contains an amphetamine analogue, it had me fooled. I took one pill this morning with 800mg piracetam and 1g ALCAR - I had a good deal of focus and energy, but none of the typical side effects I typically get from Adderall (e.g., excessive thirst, frequent urination, bruxism with higher doses). If anything, it felt more akin to caffeine. The one thing that would reliably scream 'designer drug' off the bat, tthough, is the warning label - 'may contain ingredients that could risk in a positive drug test'.

[Reformed-Redan]

Picked up some Detonate and gave it a try today. Honestly, if it legitimately contains an amphetamine analogue, it had me fooled. I took one pill this morning with 800mg piracetam and 1g ALCAR - I had a good deal of focus and energy, but none of the typical side effects I typically get from Adderall (e.g., excessive thirst, frequent urination, bruxism with higher doses). If anything, it felt more akin to caffeine. The one thing that would reliably scream 'designer drug' off the bat, tthough, is the warning label - 'may contain ingredients that could risk in a positive drug test'.

Is this still working for you? Wondering about that.

Also, I think the analogues are closer to methamphetamine. Wondering if there is risk of neurotoxicity with them?

[Reformed-Redan]

I think Detonate will be off the market soon, friend at thermolife told me Truth Speaker was in contact with FDA and DEA. I hope this doesn't lead to regulation on the supplement market. Ewgh.

Just giving a heads up before its taken away.

[machete234]

As I just tried 3-fa, I find it really different. Both have a great moodlift, but while on Craze I feel actualy quite "healthy" (wellbeing) on 3-fa I felt pretty drugged.
3-fa felt like coming on MDMA or Methylone for me. I was afraid I was going to trip any minute, but the feeling soon settled. It did not feel bad, but it only had recreational qualities, which I am not really looking for.

Its been almost a year and you probably arent on the forums anymore but you were taking the wrong RC stimulant, with the fluor in the 3 position this is a little serotonergic so no wonder it feels a little like MDMA or M1 coming up.
2-FA would be the cleanest version of this.

Anyways if I where you guys I would start researching legal or unscheduled stimulants and try to obtain these because thats what these pre workout formulas are. Designer drugs+filler material
This way you can choose the designer drug you are ingesting.

Edited by machete234, 14 June 2013 - 07:26 AM.

[Reformed-Redan]

As I just tried 3-fa, I find it really different. Both have a great moodlift, but while on Craze I feel actualy quite "healthy" (wellbeing) on 3-fa I felt pretty drugged.
3-fa felt like coming on MDMA or Methylone for me. I was afraid I was going to trip any minute, but the feeling soon settled. It did not feel bad, but it only had recreational qualities, which I am not really looking for.

Its been almost a year and you probably arent on the forums anymore but you were taking the wrong RC stimulant, with the fluor in the 3 position this is a little serotonergic so no wonder it feels a little like MDMA or M1 coming up.
2-FA would be the cleanest version of this.

Anyways if I where you guys I would start researching legal or unscheduled stimulants and try to obtain these because thats what these pre workout formulas are. Designer drugs+filler material
This way you can choose the designer drug you are ingesting.

Sounds like a bad idea. Coming under the radar of leo.

[Reformed-Redan]

I'm worried about any potential neurotoxicity with Detonate. Such as raised localized temperatures in the PFC that might lead to neurodegeneration. Anyone?

[Galaxyshock]

Detonate also contains Ginseng and Green tea extract (EGCG) that are neuroprotective. In my experience it always felt healthier and more stable compared to Craze that gave a rush. Of course the unknown mechanism of the designer stim / "dendrobium" requires caution, but I wouldn't be too worried in the recommended doses?

[Reformed-Redan]

Detonate also contains Ginseng and Green tea extract (EGCG) that are neuroprotective. In my experience it always felt healthier and more stable compared to Craze that gave a rush. Of course the unknown mechanism of the designer stim / "dendrobium" requires caution, but I wouldn't be too worried in the recommended doses?

Well as has already been mentioned it is a methamphetamine analogue. Given that meth increases localized temperatures in the stratum and other areas, this could lead to premature denaturation of neurons. Especially given how people engage in workouts and other strenuous activities when taking these pills.

[Reformed-Redan]

I can't believe nobody wants to look into if this compound causes the same or similar neurotoxic effects as methamphetamine. Looks like short term gains have blinded us.

[Endymion]

I can't believe nobody wants to look into if this compound causes the same or similar neurotoxic effects as methamphetamine. Looks like short term gains have blinded us.

I'm equally worried about this. It's probably just best to shelve it until the jury is in.

[machete234]

As I just tried 3-fa, I find it really different. Both have a great moodlift, but while on Craze I feel actualy quite "healthy" (wellbeing) on 3-fa I felt pretty drugged.
3-fa felt like coming on MDMA or Methylone for me. I was afraid I was going to trip any minute, but the feeling soon settled. It did not feel bad, but it only had recreational qualities, which I am not really looking for.

Its been almost a year and you probably arent on the forums anymore but you were taking the wrong RC stimulant, with the fluor in the 3 position this is a little serotonergic so no wonder it feels a little like MDMA or M1 coming up.
2-FA would be the cleanest version of this.

Anyways if I where you guys I would start researching legal or unscheduled stimulants and try to obtain these because thats what these pre workout formulas are. Designer drugs+filler material
This way you can choose the designer drug you are ingesting.

Sounds like a bad idea. Coming under the radar of leo.

I dont want to promote taking drugs but people are doing this allready.
The better option would be to take nothing at all especially not these BB formulas with obscure content.
Its a bit like smoking these herbal blends with chemicals in them and then wondering why you get mental health issues.

Plant extracts my ass, you could put and extract in there or you could get a few kg of the chemical from china for 1/10 the price.

The stimulants in this could be clean and less neurotoxic than amphetamines but they also could be made under bad conditions and be somewhere in the same range.
Meth makes people look so bad because of chemicals that dont belong in there, german soldiers in ww2 didnt have their teeth falling out from their meth.

Edited by machete234, 15 June 2013 - 06:03 AM.

[Reformed-Redan]

As I just tried 3-fa, I find it really different. Both have a great moodlift, but while on Craze I feel actualy quite "healthy" (wellbeing) on 3-fa I felt pretty drugged.
3-fa felt like coming on MDMA or Methylone for me. I was afraid I was going to trip any minute, but the feeling soon settled. It did not feel bad, but it only had recreational qualities, which I am not really looking for.

Its been almost a year and you probably arent on the forums anymore but you were taking the wrong RC stimulant, with the fluor in the 3 position this is a little serotonergic so no wonder it feels a little like MDMA or M1 coming up.
2-FA would be the cleanest version of this.

Anyways if I where you guys I would start researching legal or unscheduled stimulants and try to obtain these because thats what these pre workout formulas are. Designer drugs+filler material
This way you can choose the designer drug you are ingesting.

Sounds like a bad idea. Coming under the radar of leo.

I dont want to promote taking drugs but people are doing this allready.
The better option would be to take nothing at all especially not these BB formulas with obscure content.
Its a bit like smoking these herbal blends with chemicals in them and then wondering why you get mental health issues.

The stimulants in this could be clean and less neurotoxic than amphetamines but they also could be made under bad conditions and be somewhere in the same range.
Meth makes people look so bad because of chemicals that dont belong in there, german soldiers in ww2 didnt have their teeth falling out from their meth.

Amen.

[norepinephrine]

Picked up some Detonate and gave it a try today. Honestly, if it legitimately contains an amphetamine analogue, it had me fooled. I took one pill this morning with 800mg piracetam and 1g ALCAR - I had a good deal of focus and energy, but none of the typical side effects I typically get from Adderall (e.g., excessive thirst, frequent urination, bruxism with higher doses). If anything, it felt more akin to caffeine. The one thing that would reliably scream 'designer drug' off the bat, tthough, is the warning label - 'may contain ingredients that could risk in a positive drug test'.

Is this still working for you? Wondering about that.

Also, I think the analogues are closer to methamphetamine. Wondering if there is risk of neurotoxicity with them?

I think I spoke a little prematurely - I've been taking bacopa at night, and it's becoming pretty evident that there's a carry-over effect on dopamine modulation the following day. I took 20mg of Adderall XR for a couple days during exam week, and although I was extremely focused, goal-oriented and attentive to detail (i.e., all the usual positives), I also had nearly zero anxiety, reduction in social skills (previously, I'd become pretty terse and too-the-point on any real prescription stimulant). Bacopa and reishi have been the only new additions to my stack, and bacopa has some evidence to suggest dopamine modulation (check the Examine.com page for reference), so I'm pretty positive that's it.

Anyway - Detonate has been working but I definitely exercise some caution while taking it, e.g., one pill at a time every 4-5 hours, cutting it off before 2pm, staying hydrated, etc. There's a mild crash after 5 hours in the case I didn't redose, but other than that, it doesn't affect me in quite the way XR would. I could probably give a better assesment after having a wash-out period on bacopa, but at this point the positives of continuing to take it outweigh the knowledge gained on what Detonate would be like otherwise.

[Reformed-Redan]

Picked up some Detonate and gave it a try today. Honestly, if it legitimately contains an amphetamine analogue, it had me fooled. I took one pill this morning with 800mg piracetam and 1g ALCAR - I had a good deal of focus and energy, but none of the typical side effects I typically get from Adderall (e.g., excessive thirst, frequent urination, bruxism with higher doses). If anything, it felt more akin to caffeine. The one thing that would reliably scream 'designer drug' off the bat, tthough, is the warning label - 'may contain ingredients that could risk in a positive drug test'.

Is this still working for you? Wondering about that.

Also, I think the analogues are closer to methamphetamine. Wondering if there is risk of neurotoxicity with them?

I think I spoke a little prematurely - I've been taking bacopa at night, and it's becoming pretty evident that there's a carry-over effect on dopamine modulation the following day. I took 20mg of Adderall XR for a couple days during exam week, and although I was extremely focused, goal-oriented and attentive to detail (i.e., all the usual positives), I also had nearly zero anxiety, reduction in social skills (previously, I'd become pretty terse and too-the-point on any real prescription stimulant). Bacopa and reishi have been the only new additions to my stack, and bacopa has some evidence to suggest dopamine modulation (check the Examine.com page for reference), so I'm pretty positive that's it.

Anyway - Detonate has been working but I definitely exercise some caution while taking it, e.g., one pill at a time every 4-5 hours, cutting it off before 2pm, staying hydrated, etc. There's a mild crash after 5 hours in the case I didn't redose, but other than that, it doesn't affect me in quite the way XR would. I could probably give a better assesment after having a wash-out period on bacopa, but at this point the positives of continuing to take it outweigh the knowledge gained on what Detonate would be like otherwise.

Personally, I took detonate before doing some yard work the other day and sh*t got done is all I can say. But, the next day I was all fatigued and felt tired and all (recovery period.) Just don't want to mess up my reward system. Also, I had no appetite at all; but, felt a comedown after around 6h.

[Kolin]

It's still working for me, and l-theanine kills any resultant anxiety. I hope it won't get pulled, because it's hard to get prescriptions for the stuff Detonate takes care of. The docs don't want to believe you, and kind of eye you askance like you're a drug pusher, even when you have no history of that.


I understand the risks, but I'm not able to get the help I need without it. Prescription medication has its risks, too. So I guess I'll just keep doing what I'm doing.

[Kolin]

(On a side note, I have lost a significant amount of weight during the past few months. I'm not overly concerned at this point, but am definitely keeping an eye on it. So Detonate does seem to fulfill its primary purpose as a thermogenic, which may be of interest.)

[Galantamine]

New Craze & Detonate lab tests:

http://www.thermolif.../post41052-451/

Here are the lab results on the products tested based on a validated method... the test results were delivered to me at the end of the day as the lab closed so I didn't have a chance to get back to them and ask to have them put the nomenclature for "ETH" on the report but rest assured it will be updated by Monday at the latest.

In case there is any doubt the term "ETH" refers to:

ethyl-1-phenyl-2-butylamine, N,alpha-diethylbenzeneethanamine or N,alpha-diethylphenethylamine which are all the same compound, recently termed ETHamphetamine or "ETH".

I have a proper chain of custody for each of the products tested and it will be produced to the necessary organizations if and when necessary.

All my statements regarding the contents of "ETH" in these products are based on the validity of these test results and the lab that preformed the analysis...

The lab was contracted to develop a standard for "ETH" and validated a test method for "ETH"...

This is a forensic lab that will stand behind their results in court.


GASPARI DETONATE (POSITIVE FOR "ETH"):

[Reformed-Redan]

Oh, shit. 23 mg of a methamphetamine analogue in one capsule?! You've gotta be shitting me!

[jly1986]

New Craze & Detonate lab tests:

http://www.thermolif.../post41052-451/

Here are the lab results on the products tested based on a validated method... the test results were delivered to me at the end of the day as the lab closed so I didn't have a chance to get back to them and ask to have them put the nomenclature for "ETH" on the report but rest assured it will be updated by Monday at the latest.

In case there is any doubt the term "ETH" refers to:

ethyl-1-phenyl-2-butylamine, N,alpha-diethylbenzeneethanamine or N,alpha-diethylphenethylamine which are all the same compound, recently termed ETHamphetamine or "ETH".

I have a proper chain of custody for each of the products tested and it will be produced to the necessary organizations if and when necessary.

All my statements regarding the contents of "ETH" in these products are based on the validity of these test results and the lab that preformed the analysis...

The lab was contracted to develop a standard for "ETH" and validated a test method for "ETH"...

This is a forensic lab that will stand behind their results in court.


GASPARI DETONATE (POSITIVE FOR "ETH"):

There were two tests for Craze Grape, and one was positive for ETH, while the other negative. What was the difference between the two samples?

[Galantamine]

There were two tests for Craze Grape, and one was positive for ETH, while the other negative. What was the difference between the two samples?

Different lot numbers - meaning they were manufactured at different times.

[jly1986]

There were two tests for Craze Grape, and one was positive for ETH, while the other negative. What was the difference between the two samples?

Different lot numbers - meaning they were manufactured at different times.

That's interesting ... so, is it that the more recently manufactured lot showed negative?

[Reformed-Redan]

Yeah, so i tried Detonate again a couple of days ago. It definitely has classic stimulant effects to it. Though, I think the risks outweigh whatever perceived benefits it may have. Dopamine overload, mitochondrial damage, neurodegereration from increased oxidation stress on DA neurons and increased heat, inflammation. Not worth it for a days worth of increased productivity. IMO, modafiil would be better productive wise.

I'm still inclined to keep the bottle; though I can tell this is only because of the SUBJECTIVE effects of its METHAMPHETAMINE additive, meaning, already PSYCHOLOGICAL/PHYSIOLOGICAL DEPENDENCE is forming into ADDICTION. Definitely not worth it!

[machete234]

Dont be too scared because theres a methamphetamine analogue in it, you could say many stimulants are meth analgues that doesnt say that much about how dangerous it really is
You could say ephedrine is close to meth which it is but its not THAT dangerous.

Stimulant addiction is mostly because of the depressive phase the time after the consumption and this can be days, weeks or months until you feel normal again wihtout the stimulant.
A quick fix to get rid of the bad feeling is of course the drug and thats how the addiction develops

Edited by machete234, 05 July 2013 - 09:49 PM.

[Reformed-Redan]

Dont be too scared because theres a methamphetamine analogue in it, you could say many stimulants are meth analgues that doesnt say that much about how dangerous it really is
You could say ephedrine is close to meth which it is but its not THAT dangerous.

Stimulant addiction is mostly because of the depressive phase the time after the consumption and this can be days, weeks or months until you feel normal again wihtout the stimulant.
A quick fix to get rid of the bad feeling is of course the drug and thats how the addiction develops

That's pretty naive. I bet this conversation would sound much different if we were shooting up meth.