478 replies to this topic

[unregistered_user]

Yea... I've stopped taking it. The arm, chest, and jaw pain on my left side worries me a lot and it happens reliably even after taking less than 1 scoop of it. I also noticed that I don't get the confidence boost or focus that I got during the first 2-3 weeks. Something changed and it's clear my body does not like taking this anymore.

I only made it through just over 1/2 a tub. I don't understand how people are going through multiple tubs of this stuff. I started off really liking this but the pain in my left arm, chest and jaw is so obviously related to the CRAZE that I would be foolish to ignore my body and keep taking it. In fact, I am foolish and I'm just lucky nothing bad happened. I continued taking it despite those side-effects for over a week and for that entire week the same things happened.

I wonder when we're going to hear more about that lawsuit and find out what is actually contained in CRAZE.

Edited by semi-retarded-individual, 17 June 2012 - 06:28 PM.

[knutsayang]

Thanks for the update man. I am glad you sort of went off it to be honest, was a bit worried about you. I also listened to my body and stopped taking it in the end.

[Junk Master]

Sheesh. I'm waiting for tub number three. I like 1 1/2 scoops in the morning and then 1/2 scoop an additional 3 times after per day. No problems sleeping, my runs and workouts are much improved; especially the weight work. I seem to be able to get into an agressive zone 45 minutes after ingestion, similar to a "second wind" in running. Almost like and endorphin dump.

The only thing I wish is I could get the active ingredients without the flavoring, sweetener, so I could just dump it down, or flavor it myself.

I've been lifting for over twenty years and this is by far my 1# pre-workout drink, and when combined with an attack dose of piracetam in 1/2 scoop doses and excellent addition to any energizing nootropic stack.

Again, I have no affiliation with Driven Sports.

[knutsayang]

Err I must say though that partly my problems were due to overdosing (above 2 scoops) because of dependency/work pressure/addictive personality. It did have good results if all you wanted was 3 hours of solid work as long as you keep eating and drinking regularly.

[tintinet]

Maybe I've received something different than others posting here. My Craze tastes awful to me- so bad I can't imagine why anyone bothers to try to flavor or sweeten it, and, so far, has been as effective and taking nothing at all for me.

[Junk Master]

Compared to Centrophenoxine or Sulbutiamine powder Craze is mild tasting-- slightly chemical grape kool aid.

[Zato]

I've received my Ultima and Craze.

First impressions:

Ultima 1/2 scoop in water, sublingual 15-30 sec administration.

Tastes like weak citrus juice, tea and powder. Looks pastel yellow. Color are slightly more saturated (choline?) , feel little bit more relaxed, bit more composed,
Speaking on the phone a bit more calm and collected when conversing. Reading a statistics textbook, everything in it seems slightly more colorful. There is no intensity like there is with coffee.
No tunnel vision as I am slightly more aware of my surroundings.Drive is not effected.

Overall I feel slightly calmer and more aware, which are really neutral outcomes . I am undecided if I like this or not for the price. I will monitor how it effects my productivity.
I like coffee for its drive, intensity, and well being but ultima is a very different experience.

I intend to make a log while I cycle craze, ultima and caffeine.

Edited by Zato, 19 June 2012 - 01:53 AM.

[nito]

Craze works well for me. The only negative thing is that i get a very dry mouth. My jaw also feels a bit more tense like it used to feel when i took SSRI, i keep clenching my jaw. I also keep running to the loo to take a leak. Any water i drink needs to leave my system pretty quick, which i feel is annoying. However the plus side is that im lifting like crazy lol. However i am a fairly skinny guy and my protein shakes are rubbish. I though id post a link to a weight gainer that i am thinking of buying right now, and if any of you body-builders could advice me whether it's a fairly good buy or not.

http://www.matrix-nu...&Code=MM#?w=500

[Junk Master]

That looks fine, but you'll put on water weight quickly at first because of the waxy maize (most often just corn starch).

If I were you, I'd spend my money on a simple Whey Protein and plain jane Creatine Mono-- creapure.

You can add your own carbs by grinding oats in a coffee grinder.

Toss in a couple hard boiled eggs a day and a glass or two of milk and you've got basically the same thing for a lot less.

[nito]

That looks fine, but you'll put on water weight quickly at first because of the waxy maize (most often just corn starch).

If I were you, I'd spend my money on a simple Whey Protein and plain jane Creatine Mono-- creapure.

You can add your own carbs by grinding oats in a coffee grinder.

Toss in a couple hard boiled eggs a day and a glass or two of milk and you've got basically the same thing for a lot less.

I can afford it it's fine. I rather just have it all there rather start mixing my own stuff up. Another thing is i find it hard to stick to a specific diet regime. So i would probably start skipping the eggs and milk now and then due to negligence. I definitely need the weight right now i'm turning 30 in February and my 14 years old cousin has got bigger legs than me, im really skinny on my legs and my upper body. Thanks for the advice too

Edited by nito, 20 June 2012 - 11:39 AM.

[nito]

just had a look around the site and i don't see a security certificate when i tried to order online, called them up and they said their site is indeed secure. Another thing is the price, the price seems a bit low for 4kg. I have now seen this product http://www.cheapuksu...us-mass-5.44-kg . Offers alot of protein, calories and carbs + low sugar. They also sell it nearby my house so i can avoid the online purchase. What do you think?

[Junk Master]

Go with the Optimum Nutrition. Solid company. I use their whey protein.

4-Hour Body by Tim Ferriss has some good tips on building mass quickly. Here's a link to an earlier article he did on gaining 34 lbs in 4 weeks. Sure, those results are atypical and probably enhanced by dehydrating and rehydrating, and Ferriss is an annoying little self-promoter, but there's still some good advice.

[unregistered_user]

Thanks for the update man. I am glad you sort of went off it to be honest, was a bit worried about you. I also listened to my body and stopped taking it in the end.

Absolutely. I appreciate your concern. I feel I would be remiss in watching my health to continue taking something that so clearly gave me negative side effects. I hope others pay close attention and keep updating the thread. I'm still interested to see how everyone else is doing on it.

[FrankMH]

My experiences pretty much match up to 'SRI's'; Increased confidence, verbal fluency and alertness - a clear head, so to speak. I appear to wake up with the clear head too.

I've been using a scoop to a scoop and a half, off and on (when I feel I need it) for the past 2 weeks. It certainly removes any tiredness I experience, including tiredness brought on by either supplements or alcohol (something of a bonus for me.)

As others have mentioned, the days off are a nod to the days you are using it. I'm trying to ignore that; I don't want to become too dependant.

No apparent health issues yet; I'm monitoring, and will post if anything changes.

[niner]

After reading this thread, I have to say, Craze is scary. I'm a pharmaceutical chemist, so I know a bit about this kind of thing. There is quite a mix of ingredients here, starting with four different amphetamine analogs. Add some MAO inhibition, and you're off to the races. This is basically an untested mix of stimulants that, as far as I can see, has most of the expected physiological effects of amphetamines. The side effects that people are reporting (unilateral chest pain, breathlessness, etc) suggest that this would best be used with a cardiac team standing by. It's obviously an addiction danger. I'm impressed that you guys have been able to put it down, and that you had the wisdom to do that.

[health_nutty]

After reading this thread, I have to say, Craze is scary. I'm a pharmaceutical chemist, so I know a bit about this kind of thing. There is quite a mix of ingredients here, starting with four different amphetamine analogs. Add some MAO inhibition, and you're off to the races. This is basically an untested mix of stimulants that, as far as I can see, has most of the expected physiological effects of amphetamines. The side effects that people are reporting (unilateral chest pain, breathlessness, etc) suggest that this would best be used with a cardiac team standing by. It's obviously an addiction danger. I'm impressed that you guys have been able to put it down, and that you had the wisdom to do that.

I'm glad you chimed in, I had the same reaction, but based more on common sense.

[tintinet]

Easy for me to quit- tastes terrible and does absolutely nothing for me- not even placebo effects!

[unregistered_user]

I have been off of it now for over 2 weeks and am still experiencing chest pains that occur on both sides at different times, occasional arm pain, and what feels like even some jaw and tooth pain. I just came from the dentist and had a perfect checkup. Got all new x-rays and the dentist explained that everything is as it should be. Not even a single cavity. Now I'm getting worried about the tooth/jaw pain as I started thinking that it might be "referred pain". Sometimes I get this shooting/piercing pain that zaps right through my heart (I don't know if it's really in my heart.... but it feels like it) and then sometimes I'll get chest/back pain followed by a little shortness of breath almost like I'm beginning to panic.

I haven't done any cardio since I started and stopped Craze and am honestly a little reluctant to. I used to be a runner (around 3 miles a day) and have been thinking of starting back up again but I'm worried I'll induce a heart attack.

I'm not trying to be dramatic. I'm just trying to be descriptive about what I've been feeling. I haven't seen a doctor yet although I probably will soon. I do have a high stress job with another stressful event going on in my life right now which together could be causing my agita.

These things could all be unrelated to Craze but since chest and arm pains were side effects I experienced while taking it, I think it could be possible they are related to it now.

On the upside, I don't feel any worse cognitively after stopping it like I thought I would. I went back to feeling pretty normal after about 1 week.

[golden1]

could also be triggered by stress... then you start having slight a panic attack because you match it up to heart damage caused by craze. you can feel anything, it could all be in your head or just a cramped muscle/lack of magnesium/gaba/electrolytes.

[Zato]

My impression of Craze is it gives you very 'dirty' energy compared to coffee. I did not feel focused more like very awake, elevated mood and restless. I also felt I had momentum sort of like ephedrine but much better.
As for side effects I had strange stinging pain in my forearm(muscle soreness?) but I don't feel it was anything serious.

I disagree that Craze is anything close to amphetamines, I've never had amphetamines but what I felt was very undesirable, uncontrolled energy. I would rate it below caffeine in terms of mental productivity.

If it was possible to combine Ultima and Craze that would provide the anti anxiety/ control of Ultima coupled with the strong momentum energy of Craze would be a great product. They both have choline and I've heard advice against stacking them.

Edited by Zato, 03 July 2012 - 06:34 PM.

[Major Legend]

Don't worry SRI I had some residual pain that lasted for about 2 weeks+ too though I only took it once or twice, so the pain wasn't into my arm just around my chest area (when I was breathing deep) it does go away and I don't experience any of those side effects. Of course do dial emergency as fast as u can if it suddenly gets worst.

I don't know whats in Craze, but the paranoid symptom wasn't pleasant. I have experienced low dose methampetamine several times and the focus/mood improvement is much better than Drive minus any of the side effects, also minus the paranoia. As methampetamine is the most dangerous stimulant out there, and even that doesn't cause sharp chest pains. I doubt Drive is safe, at the very least it isn't safe for certain people it seems.

Good thing about drive is there is seemingly very little comedown.

[Introspecta]

Yeah I used this stuff for a month and it did nothing good for my life. It kept me isolated. Made me paranoid, social in the beginning but turned into antisocial. It worked good for workouts in the beginning but then I started taking it when not working out. Too addictive. Too dehydrating. Avoid. Unless you can use sparingly before workouts then its best to just stay away. Really its just best to stay away from all stimulants and improve your diet for clean real energy not fake supplement energy.

[Cephalon]

Ok first the disclaimer: I have no clue in terms of chemistry nor pharmacology. Someone who has please join me here

So my theory would be (though nothing new):

The compounds on the label:
N,N-Dimethyl-B-Phenylethylamince, and N,N-Diethyl-B-Phenylethylamine

Are actually (without typos and forgetting stereoisomery for a sec):
DimethylPEA, and DiethylPEA

Amphetamine is: MethylPEA - while Methamphetamine is: MethylAmphetamine (= Methyl-MethylPEA = DimethylPEA ?)

So we would have an Methamphetamine analogue in Craze also being DimethylPEA = Methamphetamine, with the only difference being a beta amphetamine and having the methylgroup somewhere else?

This would make CRAZE be a perfect example of the US analog act and therefore be banned?

Know what I mean? I don't say they are similar in regards as they are both phenethylamines, but they are actually the same compound with their groups in different positions of the phenylring?

So it's not the same as with plantfood and the whole RC stuff, where whole functional groups are replaces, Fl, Cl, Li, Na etc. are added or atoms are missing - but's actually Methamphetamine?

With a companion being DiethylPEA - with additional, probably MethylPEA (Dexedrine) like properties?
So we would have the double punch tweaker attack, with both Dexedrine and Desoxyn (analogs) in every scoop? Cut with chineese herbs and caffeine? People, isn't this stuff just plain street snuff, in a nice tub - for an incredible low price? Anyone tried smoking, sniffing, pugging, injecting this stuff yet?

Excited how the lawsuite turns out ...

This is DimethylPEA from CRAZE if I'm right:

http://pubchem.ncbi....i?t=l&cid=25125
http://pubchem.ncbi....=400&height=400

This is Methamphetamine:

http://pubchem.ncbi....i?t=l&cid=10836
http://pubchem.ncbi....=400&height=400

Edited by Cephalon, 09 July 2012 - 12:06 PM.

[Cephalon]

Just ordered a tub to confirm my claims

[tintinet]

I wonder if there's some variability in the formulation, 'cause the I went up to 2 scoops without feeling any effect whatsoever.

[Cephalon]

Hope not, want to try the old formula. Tho the product in Germany most likely is the old formular, there's not that kind of an demand as in the US I guess. On the other hands, law is pretty strict over here - hope DS were not so smart to create two formulas US/EU as other's did before.

To further back/ explain my claim I want to present the chemical formula of ...
Methamphetamine: C10H15N
DimethylPEA: C10H15N

Hmm ... looks prety similar, doesn't it? I would almost say equal.
So it's just the difference in position of the groups? I know it could have an huge impact ...
But it mustn't right?

But maybe I'm just missing something.
N,N-Dimethyl-B-Phenylethylamince?

You think DS would be so dumb to think they could foul the DEA by just selling a beta analogue and making a typo ("-amince" - is there such a thing?) and everything was fine?

I will read a bit more on stereoisomerie and will try to find out more .. Man I should file a lawsuite too! This distracts me from studying my stuff and to make up the time, I will end up taking too much Craze ... is it lucrative to file such a suite in the US?

To make nomeclature easier I decided to use the abbrevations found in a journal
Dimethylphenylethylamine = DMPEA (which is N,N-Dimethyl-B-Phenylethylamince in Craze)

Until I find an official abbrevation I will call
Diethylphenylethylamine = DEPEA (which is N,N-Diethyl-B-Phenylethylamine in Craze)


So far I see DMPEA is used as a radioactive marker to show MAO-B activity in brain studies already in the 80's so there should be some data concerning safety ...

Edit: DMPEA as a term might be misleading, as the Dopamine metabolite Dimethoxyphenylethylamine is also calles DMPEA. Will check what's the difference in Methyl and Methoxy.



Edit 2: Will quit my "research" for now. So my question for all researchers out there:

Is Dimethylphenylethylamine a structural analouge of Methamphetamine in terms of the US analogue act and therefore to be banned?

(and not just a derivate which could get the compound around the act via the RC track?)

Edited by Cephalon, 09 July 2012 - 01:14 PM.

[Cephalon]

Ok so I gave CRAZE a go today. All I can say this stuff is amazing and beats all study aids I tried so far by lengths, being

- the common nootropics (racetams, modafinil, AChIs, precusors)
- amphetamine and ritalin
- "research chemicals" such as MPA, 3-FA, Ethylphenidate

It gives a very, very clean mental stimulation.
It enhances mood but does not cause notable euphoria (at least at 1 scoop).
It does not negatively affect reasoning as far as I can tell.
It has no notable peripheral action, except: dry mouth and sweaty feet. BP/HR unaffected.
It has a long duration, more than 6 hours so far.

Only minus is it tastes awefull, not average awefull (yes I have been eating most supplements on the market spoonwise) but somewhat poisonous awefull - like the drip sensation street amphetamine sometimes causes, for those who are familiar.

Absolutely recommended

Only questions are:
How long will this be available (see my open question above)
And: Does anyone think this stuff (DMPA etc.) comes from Dendrobium (some kind of orchide as I just found out?)

Couldn't find any studies proving Dendrobium containing any Phenethylamines. But Dendrobium Nobile is used in TCM as far as I know. Found a study on Dendrobine - this has antinociceptive properties. Opioid? No idea.

My guess is the smart people at Driven Sports took Patrick Arnold (was it even him) as an example and digged out some chineese study proving Dendrobium contained this Amphetamine analogue. As you all know, if you have a claim to prove and you dig long enough on pubmed you will have your prove ...

What SWIM would do is to pay some scientists to "find" what I want to sell as "of natural origin" in whatever plant. I guess if you try hard enough you can find cocaine in camomile ...

Edited by Cephalon, 13 July 2012 - 10:47 PM.

[tintinet]

How much did you take, Cephalon?

[FrankMH]

It really does taste awful. Apparently they have acknowledged this and are pushing out a new flavour soon.

[Cephalon]

Hi Tintinet, I have been taking 1 scoop in my first try and about 1 1/2 a couple hours later.
Today I used one scoop at 2pm and still have the effects now at 6:30 pm. (German time)
But I'm a strong responder to everything - so you'd need to take this into account.
I can definately differ that from placebo, since I have some experiance in reference material

Hey Frank MH, I heard that isn't the new taste out already? Hope they won't change the formular if they already making a new mix ...
I would do so, getting cold feet ...