22 replies to this topic

[Alison Smith]

As long as I remember I’ve been always overweight, and now I think I am the heaviest I have ever been. All of it started after I quit playing sports in high school, and I started working at a restaurant. Because of working very long hours I started eating wrong, and I rarely worked out. But right now I feel like my time of transformation has come, and I really want to get rid of body fat once and for all. You probably will ask me what things motivated me? Nothing much. It's just I have a very young child, and I would like to set a great example for him. I have tried so many diets and weight loss products that I'm just tired of them. At this point I want to try somewhat different that is why I purchased diet pills like [brand name] I've been taking it for some time now, and I really see some good results. But, I don't eat as healthy, and I don't go to the gym very often. It's just that I do not have much time because of my job. I worry about my fat loss because I want to do it in the right way this time. Do you have thoughts what I need to do to get rid of body fat in a very healthy way?

Edit: removed commercial link/brand name

Edited by niner, 15 May 2012 - 09:08 PM.

[Cephalon]

Hi Alison,

I think cutting calories is the only way to maintain a lean body. But recently I'm looking for additional ways to shred some fat too.
I'm prety lean, since I more or less restrict calories now for the past 2 years after crash dieting from 100KG @ 1,76cm to ~ 69 kg.
But no matter how many calories I restrict, I have problems loosing fat at some regions.

I just created a stack with hopes to shed some abdominal fat in conjunction with sit ups and cardio:

am:
250mg Resveratrol (Revgenetics Resveratrol Nitro 250 Licaps)
20mg DMAA (possible safty concern)
500mg Jarrow Green Tea extract
12.5mg Forskolin (Vitacost 10% Forskolin 125mg/caps extract)
100mg Raspberry Ketones (Vitacost Raspberry Ketones)
10mg PQQ LEF

pm:
500mg Resveratrol (Revgenetics Resveratrol R250)


Does anyone see any interactions?
Is Forskolin safe? (I reacted pretty bad to yohimbine - I hope they don't have much in common)
Anyone heard any positive credits for Raspberry Ketones?
Is DMAA at 20mg a day safe?
Is it safe to add a vasodilator (Forskolin) with a vasoconstrictor (DMAA, Caffeine)?
Thanks!

[niner]

I just created a stack with hopes to shed some abdominal fat in conjunction with sit ups and cardio:

am:
250mg Resveratrol (Revgenetics Resveratrol Nitro 250 Licaps)
20mg DMAA (possible safty concern)
500mg Jarrow Green Tea extract
12.5mg Forskolin (Vitacost 10% Forskolin 125mg/caps extract)
100mg Raspberry Ketones (Vitacost Raspberry Ketones)
10mg PQQ LEF

pm:
500mg Resveratrol (Revgenetics Resveratrol R250)

Does anyone see any interactions?
Is Forskolin safe? (I reacted pretty bad to yohimbine - I hope they don't have much in common)
Anyone heard any positive credits for Raspberry Ketones?
Is DMAA at 20mg a day safe?
Is it safe to add a vasodilator (Forskolin) with a vasoconstrictor (DMAA, Caffeine)?
Thanks!

Take all the resveratrol in the morning. It's used more efficiently when taken as a single dose; if you take it at night it will mess with your biological clock. I don't know about the other stuff; of it, I only take GTE. The GTE might help suppress appetite. Getting rid of abdominal fat is mostly about what you eat rather than how you exercise. That's true about body composition in general. You need to give sugar and refined grains the heave-ho. Eat vegetables (mostly non-starchy). Put olive oil on them. Eat meat and fish. Try to avoid polyunsaturates / vegetable oils / industrial seed oils. Take a gram or two of fish oil.

[Cephalon]

Hi Niner,

Thanks for your reply, it's very appreciated!

I'm acctually restricting carbs pretty rigorously, but lately I fell into old habbits out of conveniances.
Need to start preparing meals ahead again ...

Ok makes sense with the Resveratrol. Just noticed the 250mg Revgenetics are 50% Resveratrol. The emodine might actually be helpful for fatloss, but I guess I will just order the Nitro caps then. Maybe 500mg of the Nitros in the am would be fine.

Excited about the PQQ. Will report back as soon as it arrived.

Forgot: 3 x 500mg ALCAR will be added. I guess that can be counted as a weight loss aid. At least some vendors sell it as such ... Fatty acid mobilization etc.

GTE is Green Tea Extract?

The other stuff is more or less on the edge to snake oil, but in case someone encourages me with some good reports I will use the stack as stated.

DMAA is a stimulant. Mechanism of action is more or less unknown. I guess it's taking the ephedrine/ amphetamine pathways.
Forskolin is a vasodilator and is supposed to raise cAMP. A study found Forskolin to increase lean body mass and testosterone levels.
- could it possibly interfer with CR?
Raspberry Ketones are possibly snake oil. They are part of many fat loss formulars.
PQQ is quite interesting. It's an antioxidant, protecting mitochondria, and possibly a gene modulator leading to genesis of new mitochondria.
- some claim it's a vitamin, but there are doubts. It might be an essential cofactor - still matter of debate.
GTE is belived to have thermogenic properties. Additionaly it contains quite alot caffeine which might contribute to fat loss benefits.

[Logic]

Bromelian from pineapple looks interesting.

Inhibition of adipogenesis and induction of apoptosis and lipolysis by stem bromelain in 3T3-L1 adipocytes:
http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/22292054

Also this search may be helpfull:
http://www.ncbi.nlm....cytes lipolysis
Like these results:
http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/22428036
http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/22405697

[tintinet]

Maybe this method:

Happy Healthy Long Life

[SocietyOfMind]

L-tyrosine killed my appetite (1800mg, first thing in the morning), more than anything else usually recommended.

[malbecman]

I think it will be really difficult to do with just dieting and supplements. It really does take diet AND exercise, preferably cardio. I know the OP says she does not have much time but perhaps time can be "found" by looking at how you
do things. Getting more exercise can be as simple as taking the stairs instead of an elevator or getting off the bus a couple of stops early and walking or even switching to a bike commute....

[The Immortalist]

Hi Alison,

No matter how many calories I restrict, I have problems loosing fat at some regions.

What regions would they be?

[mpe]

Welcome to the forum Alison,

Don't be so concerned about cutting calories as much as changing your dietary mix.

As much as possible or that you are comfortable with, cut grains and grain based foods from your diet.
Don't eat "diet foods" as they are usually high in sugar or fructose and salt.
Eat lots of vegetables, cooked or uncooked to your taste.
Eat only 2 pieces of fruit per day.
Don't eat within 4 hours of when ou plan to sleep.
Meat, fish and eggs are fine, but try to buy grass fed beef etc, for the omega 3/6 balance.
Drink only water, tea or coffee without any sweetening.
Don't drink any fuit juices, carbonated or diet drinks.
Don't snack between meals.

The aim of the above is reduce the amount of insulin you have in your system, once you have control of your insulin fat loss will occur.

Read jackkruse.com

And last but not least try to get 7 - 8 hours of sleep per night.

Mike

[Godot]

I agree with everything mpe said. His advice was perfect.

Just eat Meat & Veg and you will get healthier. It's so simple.

[Lufega]

Melatonin. Works like a charm, without changing your diet or exercising. I think it does something to the set-point since most trial subjects reached an "ideal" weight and didn't slim down further. I'm using 30 mg every night.

Brown fat tissue - a potential target to combat obesity.

Ginter E, Simko V.

Source

Institute of Preventive and Clinical Medicine, Brtislava, Slovakia. ginter.emil@mail.t-com.sk

Abstract

From the global population perspective, the epidemic of "globesity" (more than one billion adults being overweight) represents one of the largest public health problems (1). Traditional reasoning related to the dysbalance between caloric intake and energy expenditure does not provide a satisfying explanation for a complexfailure to combat obesity. The brown adipose tisue (BAT) has a unique chemical structure and a specific metabolic role. A potential preventive co-factor is thermogenesis. BAT has the ability to dissipate energy byproducing heat, rather than storing energy as triglycerides. The cells of the white adipose tissue (WAT) contain one large globule of triglycerides which displaces the cell nucleus and other cell organelles excentrically, to the cell periphery. BAT contains numerous smaller droplets of triglycerides, much higher number of mitochondria and a specific uncoupling protein 1 or thermogenin. This specialized protein uncouples ATP production from mitochondrial respiration and converts energy into heat. Using sophisticated diagnostic techniques (e.g. imaging combination of positron-emisson tomography and computed tomography), scientists confirmed the importance of BAT not only in the newborn but also in adults who were found to possess considerable body stores of BAT.The highest proportion of BAT has been detected in lean individuals. As the body mass increases, BAT proportionately drops. Data both from animal and human studies suggest that BAT and mitochondrial uncoupling can be targeted for interventions to prevent and treat obesity. Melatonin and arginine have been proposed as possible interventional tools. The scientific world eagerly awaits further advanced studies to document possible metabolic and pharmacologic interventions, using BAT as a primary target to prevent and manage obesity (Fig. 5, Ref. 41).

[nupi]

I have my doubts whether 30mg of Melatonin is all that healthy. That's a massive massive dose (even the commonly used 3mg for sleep is massive).

[albedo]

Welcome to the forum Alison,

Don't be so concerned about cutting calories as much as changing your dietary mix.

As much as possible or that you are comfortable with, cut grains and grain based foods from your diet.
Don't eat "diet foods" as they are usually high in sugar or fructose and salt.
Eat lots of vegetables, cooked or uncooked to your taste.
Eat only 2 pieces of fruit per day.
Don't eat within 4 hours of when ou plan to sleep.
Meat, fish and eggs are fine, but try to buy grass fed beef etc, for the omega 3/6 balance.
Drink only water, tea or coffee without any sweetening.
Don't drink any fuit juices, carbonated or diet drinks.
Don't snack between meals.

The aim of the above is reduce the amount of insulin you have in your system, once you have control of your insulin fat loss will occur.

Read jackkruse.com

And last but not least try to get 7 - 8 hours of sleep per night.

Mike

Focus in insulin makes this look like the Zone with cuts on specific foods and snacks and with full eggs. Or? What about dairy?

Edited by albedo, 19 May 2012 - 08:46 AM.

[tintinet]

I have my doubts whether 30mg of Melatonin is all that healthy. That's a massive massive dose (even the commonly used 3mg for sleep is massive).

IIRC, Paul Wakfer takes 30mg QHS also.

[MrSpud]

Munching on raw cocoa beans and drinking chia seeds in water instead of in between meal snacks seems to make it easy for me to lose weight and keep it off. Both of these seem to suppress appetite and are very healthy. The cocoa beans are stimulating too but don't constrict blood vessels like most other stimulants do and are therefore much better for your heart. The beans are better than processed cocoa because the flavonoids are intact and the beans are better than dark chocolate or milk chocolate because they don't have sugar and milk fat.

Here's a few studies that talk about them:
https://www.sacredch...de_research.pdf
http://www.journals....0032-9/abstract
http://onlinelibrary...3737.x/abstract
http://www.tandfonli...44.1991.9991195

Edited by MrSpud, 19 May 2012 - 04:45 PM.

[Lufega]

I have my doubts whether 30mg of Melatonin is all that healthy. That's a massive massive dose (even the commonly used 3mg for sleep is massive).

That's what I used to think also. I had a bottle of 3 mg capsules for a couple of years that I was afraid to touch. I think the fear of melatonin has no real substance and it lies in that it might theoretically disrupt endogenous production, but I could find no evidence for this. However, a real negative feedback inhibition that people seems to mess with often is the anabolic steroid-induced testosterone inhibition. This actually shrinks your nuts! lol Yet people have no problem doing it.

I couldn't find any evidence of toxicity either even when grams doses were used for months at a time. It all seems to be positive. There is some morning grogginess at high doses. I found that taking it at sundown (7-8 pm) instead of at bedtime (12-1 am), reduces morning drowsiness. I was getting some insomnia from using stimulants and combining these seems to balance things out. It's really the perfect weight loss strategy is stimulants is your preferred out. I also added 2 gram of ginger or 1 gram capsaicin to further stimulate brown fat thermogenesis.

I stumbled on this research when I found that pharmacological doses of melatonin can regenerate peripheral nerves. It's used in cancer patients to prevent chemo/radiation induced neuropathy and it works rather well for this purpose. It also improves some of the metabolic changes seen in obesity and heart disease.

[scottknl]

MPE's reply was pretty good. I'd just add that you'll be hungry if you don't get all your vitamins and minerals from your diet. Your body knows if you're eating food with low nutrition values and consequently demands more food. Stay away from dairy and excessive meat consumption as the dairy includes excessive fats and protein than a human needs. Both increase IGF-1 levels and for gosh sakes, you want to grow smaller, not bigger!! The only way to see if you're getting all your vitamins and minerals from your diet is to track what you eat with software like cronometer. Vitamin pills and supplements don't really count since they're not as effective as nutrients from foods.

If you're looking for some magic pill to fix a lifetime of eating foolishly, then you'll be waiting for a long time for it.

[VespeneGas]

I think the fear of melatonin has no real substance and it lies in that it might theoretically disrupt endogenous production, but I could find no evidence for this.

Melatonin is a potent immunomodulatory hormone whose activity is still poorly understood. Shutdown of endogenous production isn't really the concern. Dosing any hormone way above and beyond normal limits carries inherent risk, animal and medium-term human trials be damned. I still think both low and high doses are useful in certain contexts, but recommending megadoses to strangers on the internet for weight loss when no human trials have substantiated its (admittedly plausible) efficacy seems a bit rash.

See:
http://www.mayoclini...DSECTION=safety
http://www.ncbi.nlm....57/?tool=pubmed

[Elus]

I would recommend increasing green vegetable intake (tomatoes & onion are good too), reducing/eliminating processed carbs and sugar, and eating fish. You can add variety to your salads by including nuts (walnuts for example), fruits (grapes, raisins, blueberries), chopped up hardboiled eggs, or grilled chicken. Use lots of greens (lettuce, spinach, or other mixed greens) and add olive oil, salt, and vinegar to taste. Makes for a healthy salad that also tastes great. Sometimes I even cheat and use a dash of honey, but I'm odd like that :P.

You could also supplement with niacin if you have problem with the trigs.

Edited by Elus, 01 June 2012 - 01:13 AM.

[Lufega]

Melatonin is a potent immunomodulatory hormone whose activity is still poorly understood. Shutdown of endogenous production isn't really the concern. Dosing any hormone way above and beyond normal limits carries inherent risk, animal and medium-term human trials be damned. I still think both low and high doses are useful in certain contexts, but recommending megadoses to strangers on the internet for weight loss when no human trials have substantiated its (admittedly plausible) efficacy seems a bit rash.

See:
http://www.mayoclini...DSECTION=safety
http://www.ncbi.nlm....57/?tool=pubmed

I agree! I was eagerly searching for humans trials to substantiate the evidence and none was found. That is usually the case with non-patentable substances. I did find studies looking at the effects on peripheral nerve regeneration (my original interest) and they all concluded it was safe. I did come across this letter which offered some ease:

Exogenous melatonin administration in animals has been shown to cause significant weight loss and lower food intake, intra-abdominal fat and appetite [19–22]. In contrast, to our knowledge, no clinical trials have evaluated the weight lowering potential of melatonin in humans, although it is recognized that melatonin administration is safe and well tolerated.

However, data from the VITamins And Lifestyle cohort study of western Washington, in which participants (n=15,655) com-pleted questionnaires about 10-year supplement use, diet,
health habits, height, and present and former weight, showed that after adjusting for confounding factors, melatonin supple-mentation was related to weight loss and less weight regain
[24]. Patients with obesity commonly suffer from multiple comorbidities, including sleep disorders, which can sometimes benefit from melatonin administration[25,26], andanincreas-ing number of studies using this substance have been carried out in recent years, also including obese subjects. We suggest that changes in body weight, appetite and food intake should
be included in current and future clinical trials of melatonin as a simple, inexpensive and practical means of gathering evidence for the potential benefits of this substance in obesity.

So, patients with 1. obesity or metabolic syndrome can also suffer from 2. sleep disorders and other problems like 3. dyslipidemia. There are studies showing that Melatonin alone can positively affect all three. I think it's a pretty novel substance to treat obesity in that it's non-stimulating. 5-HTP is also up there with melatonin and this combination probably deserves its own thread. However, nothing that I wrote was meant to be medical advice. I think anyone visiting this forum already understands that basic idea.

[Luminosity]

Dieting made me fat.

[platypus]

Dieting made me fat.

Sure, weight-loss should not be the goal. The goal should be fat-loss with increased muscle-mass.