16 replies to this topic

[nameless]

Quick question for magnesium or chemistry people... what is the key difference, if any, between trimagnesium citrate vs magnesium citrate? I have read that the former may be a bit more alkaline and perhaps absorbs a little better. Anyone out there ever try it? And what sources are there for it?

Only place I have found in the US is:
http://www.tishcon.c...ts-citramag.php

And only place to buy it is from epic4health, which I guess is a subsidiary or something.

How reputable a manufacturer are they?

I've been considering trying it, as I am out of magnesium. I had a kidney stone years ago, so take a little extra mag just as a preventative, but I have found most mag citrates somewhat irritating to my stomach. I was wondering if perhaps this type may be a little less belly unfriendly.

[DbCooper]

I personally like the Magnesium Threonate, not only does it cross the blood brain barrier better than any other form of Mg, there is some suggestive evidence prevents androgen driven hair loss.

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/21034532

[Zaul]

^

Cough Cough

Edited by Master, 23 April 2012 - 02:06 PM.

[nameless]

I personally wouldn't consider mag threonate until human studies are done, and probably not even then. I'm not taking magnesium for nootropic reasons.

I guess I was wondering if there is any difference between trimagnesium citrate and mag citrate. I have read of some differences, but have also read things like this: The two commonly available forms are trimagnesium citrate anhydrous and trimagnesium citrate nonahydrate. In some countries such as USA, trimagnesium citrate is simply denominated magnesium citrate.

So there may be no difference at all in the US.

[DbCooper]

^

Cough Cough

I have one question for you, HAVE YOU EVER TAKEN Magnesium Threonate?
Ive taken both and for me personally there is no comparison, for a year straight I was soaking nightly in to cup of Magnesium Sulfate, before MgT became available. I can't be the only lab rat on the internet who have noticed you can take so much less MgT (48mg in my case) and obtain higher mental clarity?

Lastly, MgT it may be able to keep you from going bald, so even if they cross the BBB exactly the same, who doesn't want the added benefit of having hair?

In the end do whats best for yourself, Calcium Threonate was tested and approved safe for use in Europe years ago, Id expect MgT will earn the same status.

Edited by DbCooper, 25 April 2012 - 03:36 AM.

[Climactic]

I have read of some differences, but have also read things like this: The two commonly available forms are trimagnesium citrate anhydrous and trimagnesium citrate nonahydrate. In some countries such as USA, trimagnesium citrate is simply denominated magnesium citrate.

As far as I know, anhydrous just means "without water". The addition of water, as in the nonahydrate form, would at the very least decrease the ratio of elemental magnesium in the substance substantially, and would therefore be quite undesirable.

Per the Wikipedia articles of magnesium citrate and trimagnesium citrate (presumably anhydrous), the ratio of the mass of elemental magnesium in them is 11% and 16% respectively. I have no idea what's actually in the magnesium citrate product I use, but I would expect that x milligrams of elemental Mg weighs at least 9x milligrams of Mg citrate or 6.25x milligrams of triMg citrate. If the measured weight, including of fillers and binders, is therefore ≥6.25x but <9x, it is probably triMg citrate, otherwise unknown.

[niner]

There really is a difference between magnesium citrate and trimagnesium citrate. In the (mono-) magnesium citrate crystal, there is one magnesium atom for each citrate molecule. The magnesium has a +2 charge, and the citrate has a -2 charge. There are three carboxyl groups on a citrate; in the mono-mag case only two of them are ionized, and one remains protonated. In trimagnesium citrate, the ratio is three magnesium atoms to two citrate molecules, and the citrate is fully ionized, giving it a -3 charge. The tri- form has higher solubility in water, which may or may not matter, since both forms are highly soluble. Both forms are used as laxatives, so there's probably no miracle there.

Anhydrous does in fact mean "without water". The hydrated form will be cheaper and more stable; the anhydrous form of any compound like this usually grabs water from the atmosphere over time and becomes hydrated. Anhydrous salts are commonly used as drying agents.

I doubt that there's much advantage to one form over the other; I wouldn't pay a lot extra for the tri form.

[nameless]

Thanks for the replies, although I admit I forgot all about trimag citrate a while ago. The cost difference never made sense to me ... and don't even currently take mag citrate either. I find a little mag lactate easier on my belly.

[Zwergpirat]

Why not just take cheap mag oxide? The poor bioavailibility is IMHO a myth. Read http://www.pharmazeu...ex.php?id=29065. Its in german, but google translate will do a quite good job.

[niner]

Why not just take cheap mag oxide? The poor bioavailibility is IMHO a myth. Read http://www.pharmazeu...ex.php?id=29065. Its in german, but google translate will do a quite good job.

Thank you for that link. It sums up the magnesium bioavailability research, finding fault with a lot of it. When the studies are done properly, there isn't much difference in bioavailability of various forms. Oxide is absorbed more slowly than the organic forms, so studies that take samples too close to the time of dosing miss its effect. I agree that the poor bioavailability of MgO is a myth, but it is now widely and deeply held.

[BlueCloud]

I tried Mag Threonate ( Lef ) and never got any positive effects from it, except the very first time i took it ( could be placebo). I found MgCitrate, Bisglycinate and Lactate to be quite effective ( especially the glycinate ).

[nameless]

Why not just take cheap mag oxide? The poor bioavailibility is IMHO a myth. Read http://www.pharmazeu...ex.php?id=29065. Its in german, but google translate will do a quite good job.

Yep, I have nothing against mag oxide. Only reason I'm taking mag lactate right now is because I have a big bottle of it, and it's not like I am going to throw it all away.

For some people, mag oxide (and citrate too) may result in some digestive problems, so that could be one issue with it.

[stephen_b]

Why not just take cheap mag oxide? The poor bioavailibility is IMHO a myth. Read http://www.pharmazeu...ex.php?id=29065. Its in german, but google translate will do a quite good job.

Thank you for that link. It sums up the magnesium bioavailability research, finding fault with a lot of it. When the studies are done properly, there isn't much difference in bioavailability of various forms. Oxide is absorbed more slowly than the organic forms, so studies that take samples too close to the time of dosing miss its effect. I agree that the poor bioavailability of MgO is a myth, but it is now widely and deeply held.

Interesting If MgO had fewer side effects than other forms (like upsetting the digestive system) I'd consider it.

Edit: many of the reviews on iHerb talk about how great a laxative it is ...

Edited by stephen_b, 27 September 2012 - 02:13 AM.

[nameless]

I'd think lower doses of magnesium oxide shouldn't cause much in the way of laxative effects. RDA or higher.. maybe. Although when looking at Mag ox supplements, I see they typically come in 200-400mg/doses, so it may be too much at one time. There aren't a whole lot of low dose mag ox supplements out there... guess if in tablet form, it could be broken though.

Sort of off-topic a little bit, but I wonder if taking so much mag all at once is such a good idea anyway (not even counting laxative issues). I recall reading an article on heart.org (I think) regarding a different mineral, calcium, and how larger doses all at once (such as from supplements) may increase heart attack risk, yet if getting it from food there shouldn't be any cause for alarm. They theorize that is just has to do with the timing of dosing, as taking a lot of calcium all at once isn't how the body typically receives calcium from food... smaller doses from supplements probably would mimic food intake better. So RDA amount is fine, but just not all at once.

I realize this may not apply to magnesium, but just thinking aloud how it may be better to take mag at levels similar to food intake, and small amounts spread out, rather than all at once. I expect a lot of people out there taking magnesium take 50%-200% of the RDA, all at one time. That's also probably why a lot of those iherb reviews mention laxative effects too.

Edited by nameless, 27 September 2012 - 06:23 PM.

[Climactic]

I wonder if taking so much mag all at once is such a good idea anyway

Which would you say is the slowest absorbing but also an effective and bioavailable form of magnesium?

I am currently planning for 200 mg twice daily instead of 400 mg once daily. I think 200 mg at a time should be perfectly fine, considering the concept of two major meals a day.

Edited by Climactic, 27 September 2012 - 06:27 PM.

[nameless]

Niner mentioned mag oxide being slower to absorb than other forms, so maybe that's it. I honestly don't know, as I never looked into absorption speeds before. A time release version should be even slower. I know mag lactate has a time release version, and I recall one expensive mag malate also in that form -- although the latter was also loaded with folate for some bizarre reason.

The biovailabily thing is kinda weird, as some studies show mag lacate being the best absorbed, while for others it was mag aspartate, (I think)? Overall I don't think it matters a whole lot ... there probably isn't that much variation. Mag oxide has the benefit of being dirt cheap.

Edited by nameless, 27 September 2012 - 06:37 PM.

[Climactic]

Niner mentioned mag oxide being slower to absorb than other forms, so maybe that's it. I honestly don't know, as I never looked into absorption speeds before. A time release version should be even slower. I know mag lactate has a time release version, and I recall one expensive mag malate also in that form -- although the latter was also loaded with folate for some bizarre reason.

The biovailabily thing is kinda weird, as some studies show mag lacate being the best absorbed, while for others it was mag aspartate, (I think)? Overall I don't think it matters a whole lot ... there probably isn't that much variation. Mag oxide has the benefit of being dirt cheap.

I think I'm just going to go with magnesium glycinate and magnesium citrate, with 200 mg elemental magnesium per pill. The problem with the other superior bioavailable forms is the very low percentage of magnesium, often leading to much less than 200 mg in a pill.