76 replies to this topic

[kevinseven11]

To avoid off topic discussions I have created a new topic concerning my supplement stack. The main goal of my stack will be to reverse all negative effects of cannabis. I'd like to know what you guys think about it here. Canna-Reset Stack
Tell me if you experiment with this mix
Thanks

[kevinseven11]

Pretreatment of the mice with forskolin (i.t.) or Cl-cAMP (10 micrograms/mouse i.t.), which produced no antinociception, significantly attenuated the antinociception produced by the delta 9-THC and CP 55,940.

Edited by kevinseven11, 23 April 2012 - 12:05 AM.

[gamesguru]

Reverse this: http://www.guardian....-impairs-memory.

[Ark]

Pretreatment of the mice with forskolin (i.t.) or Cl-cAMP (10 micrograms/mouse i.t.), which produced no antinociception, significantly attenuated the antinociception produced by the delta 9-THC and CP 55,940.

Nice find, thanks!

[kevinseven11]

Currently on the search for opioid Antagonists.. Specifically Mu, NOP, and Delta Opioid Receptor antagonists. Ignore the study that says an opioid antagonist will enhance the intoxication effects because the opioid antagonist they used was also acting on GABA receptors (Increasing marijuana's effects).

Milk peptides: A study explains how you can extract the right fraction of Casein (Kappa Casein) with calcium type chemicals. Only problem is there are no studies on whether these 4 peptides pass the BBB. Studies show they reverse inhibited stomach movement.

Picralima nitida:
Contains Akuammine an opioid antagonist that when metabolized is converted into an opioid agonist (not good ha)

Chlorogenic acid: Found in tons of foods, unknown efficacy.

Help out the cause to cure marijuana's memory loss!

Also Im interested into wether Ampelopsin will help you from marijuana memory loss. That thread on longecity shows it reverses alcohol intoxication through GABA mechanisms. Marijuana is known to work through GABA. If your interested in trying here is a product that looks solid. Link

Edited by kevinseven11, 12 June 2012 - 05:20 PM.

[JChief]

Huperzine A is effective but recommended by outfits such as LEF.org for short term needs. Not long term.

[jadamgo]

I always found that Concerta+piracetam+choline worked fine to reduce the memory loss and brain fog of a tokeover. The OTC equivalent would be sulbutiamine+piracetam+choline(maybe +pseudoephedrine).

[kevinseven11]

Im confused as to why Huperzine A would work. It acts just as cannabis does? Antagonizes or reduces activation of NMDA receptors and is a ACH Inhibitor.
Any comments on the compounds I brought up?

Edited by kevinseven11, 14 June 2012 - 03:15 AM.

[Flex]

just type in google: huperizine ncbi acetylcholine

because ncbi is in my opinion a great database or ssciencetific research studys where you can fins further information.

i would try for acetylcholine:
betelnut (a non selective muscarinic acetylcholine agonist)
bacoopa Monieri (a not so strong OTC acetlycholinerestase inhibitor, but brain repairing effects, but unfortunaetly it increases gaba a bit)
Aswaghanda ( similair to bacoopa in ACH inhibition but stronger brain repair, and more gaba release, but be carefull its a strong blood thinner which could cause inner bleeding e.g. brain bleeding through its anticoagulant actions )
Alpha GPC (choline alfoscerate)
Ginkgo
White original ginseng (e.g. ginsana)

and for other receptors i would try:
racetams e.g. piracetam, aniracetam etc.

because like its written in the post that thc impairs glutamergic ampa receptors

http://www.guardian....-impairs-memory

racetams are known to activate them (but maybe not in a potent way) and other, like calcium channels

i would give Sulbutiamine a try too.

fishoil(epa, dha) and Lecithin have a indirect but good effect on synaptic transmission because they are improtant for the buildup for the bodies of braincells and synapses.


in my opinion targeting the opioid receptors would´nt have great effects to memory impairment.
because its a side effect of cannabinoid receptor (cb1,2) activation of theses receptors causes modulationof many other receptors lke dopamine, glutamate, serotonie, acetylchline and other receptors

I tried Huperizine A and i would avoid it, because of the non-competitive inhibition of glutamergic nmda receptors (non-competitive means they destroy these receptor, therefore they have to regrowth which would need 1-3 months but sometimes maybe 1-2 years to reorganise) and it was shwon that a impaired function of nmda receptors could cause schizophrenic like symptoms with cognitive impairments

but my greatest advice to you is to go to a doctor with you problems this would you help a lot more out and avoid dangerous side effects of subtitutes like i mentioned above (inner bleeding, overstimulating of calcium channels or glutamate receptors which causes braincell death etc.)

[neuropill]

To avoid off topic discussions I have created a new topic concerning my supplement stack. The main goal of my stack will be to reverse all negative effects of cannabis. I'd like to know what you guys think about it here. Canna-Reset Stack
Tell me if you experiment with this mix
Thanks

It may be hard to come up with a supplement that's as effective as rimonabant.

[kevinseven11]

Rimonabant was discontinued though for side effects. If only we had access to it!

[golden1]

I tried Huperizine A and i would avoid it, because of the non-competitive inhibition of glutamergic nmda receptors (non-competitive means they destroy these receptor, therefore they have to regrowth which would need 1-3 months but sometimes maybe 1-2 years to reorganise) and it was shwon that a impaired function of nmda receptors could cause schizophrenic like symptoms with cognitive impairments

The isomer of Huperzine A that is available(the one derived from the plant) has rather little activity at the NMDA receptors(you would have way way too much ACEinhibition before you got to significant NMDA antagonism) and non-competitive doesn't mean that it destroys the receptor, just that it will still bind to the receptor even if it is occupied by another compound. So really there is no cause for concern in that area.

[golden1]

Also, if you just use very very little amounts of marijuana, you end up getting just as much out of it without the negative side effects being nearly as prominent(not there at all for me). I'm talking like 1/4th the size of a pinky nail. Of course you have to let your tolerance fall completely first, but I'm convinced smoking the smallest amount is a hidden secret and most people just completely over do it because that's what they are used to. Instead of trying all these things to reverse memory effects, why not just use way less of the agent causing it in the first place? Unless you mean long term effects after you have quit smoking, but I have never experienced that however I would say good old piracetam and a good choline source are your best bet.

[MangekyōPeter]

I completely agree with what golden1 said as I've been doing that for the past 2 years now and it really did make a great difference when it comes elminating the common side effects of prolonged marijuana use.

[timdecker]

Negative effects of cannabis????

Hope you were not reading research papers that were primarily funded my the government or pharmaceutical companies.

A paper was recently published stating that MJ was actually neuroprotective and could reverse damage done to the brain. Of course if your brain was F'd up to begin with you can't blame MJ for that....

For the past few years they have been breeding MJ to contain a higher percentage of CBD instead of THC, as CBD was bread out over the past 20 years to increase the THC % for a more pshychoactive plant. Research over that past decade has shown CBD to be one of the primary contributors in curing many ailments.

Don't read news/media articles without reading the original publication as well. Also look to see who it was published by and where the money came from that funded the research.

There is a reason why pharmaceutical companies are making "cannabinoid-like" drugs.
A. They know the true potential of MJ, and
B. They can't make money from the orignal plant so they decide to isoloate certain molecules and produce synthetic forms

But who know how the synthetic molecules will react with the receptors in the body.

Edited by timdecker, 12 October 2012 - 09:11 PM.

[golden1]

While I agree with what you are saying about it being neuroprotective and regenerative as I've seen multiple studies in that department.. there are negative effects(mostly when used in excess.. which is common), to deny that is silly, but it is all in how you use it just like most everything. Also while it has an expectorant and anti-cancer effect, I can't imagine it being harmless on one's lungs, but that is a whole different topic and can be mostly avoided by vaporizing small amounts or eating food cooked with it.

[timdecker]

While I agree with what you are saying about it being neuroprotective and regenerative as I've seen multiple studies in that department.. there are negative effects(mostly when used in excess.. which is common), to deny that is silly, but it is all in how you use it just like most everything. Also while it has an expectorant and anti-cancer effect, I can't imagine it being harmless on one's lungs, but that is a whole different topic and can be mostly avoided by vaporizing small amounts or eating food cooked with it.

There have been some recent studies showing that those who smoke cannabis daily are less likey to develope lung cancer than those who smoke NOTHING at all.

Negative effects? As in cannot function properly while you are on it...yes. But long term use no...unless you read falsified and fabricated reports.

What they are doing now is lowering the percent of THC and increasing the percentage of CBD. In doing so people are able to keep functioning without the "head high" and still receive the therapeutic benefits (to a greater extent).

EDIT: You can always just juice fresh green, as CBD is active without having to heat it.

Edited by timdecker, 12 October 2012 - 11:10 PM.

[golden1]

Do you have a link to those studies regarding the lung cancer? I'm not asking in a demeaning way at all, by the way, I'm actually interested as it applies to my past and probably future(don't plan to ever quit smoking completely.. hehe). If not I'll go searching myself.

Anyway, I agree... in general.. however people who smoke a lot and daily can get stuck in a trap similar to cigarette smoking where once the high wears off there is a rebound effect where it is hard to focus and sit still and such(plus a craving to smoke more).
That effect seems to go away within a week though, so yes it isn't permanent and only happens when used in excess, but it is quite the negative effect if you get caught in the loop. I've had it happen first hand and my friends have agreed. I think we can agree though that the simple solution to that is to smoke small amounts if you're going to smoke more regularly(as more of a ... well creative/cognitive enhancer as odd as that may sound to some people.. haha). If you want to get really high once in a while for pure recreation sure, smoke a whole lot, it's not going to hurt if spaced a good distance apart.

I'm just trying to flesh out the negatives here and how to avoid them, I agree with you that the negatives are not at all something you should need supplements to take care of when there are much easier ways.

Also, interesting about being able to juice weed for the CBD, I don't grow :P or live anywhere where that is feasible money wise, but it sounds like an interesting concept.

[timdecker]

I link you the articles tomorrow. I am getting ready to head out for the night. Be sure to check back here tomorrow afternoon =)

[neuropill]

Rimonabant was discontinued though for side effects. If only we had access to it!

I believe it was for other reasons than side effects but that's what they used as an excuse to remove it from the main approved pharmaceutical market. It works great for alot of uses (weight loss, nicotine cessation, resetting cannabinoid receptors and helping prevent tolerance issues, etc). People who have depression or at risk should avoid or use it carefully as it may make it worse but this varies on the person as my friend uses it and it has not worsen his depression but reduced his body fat percentage.

It's currently available through research chemical labs that tend to focus on bodybuilders needs. Here's one:

https://www.iron-dra...?products_id=85

I do think it's a novel idea to create the best natural product for effecting post cannabis usage but some use of an antagonist may be needed at some point to fully or truly reset the receptor.

Edited by neuropill, 13 October 2012 - 08:53 AM.

[timdecker]

Rimonabant was discontinued though for side effects. If only we had access to it!

I do think it's a novel idea to create the best natural product for effecting post cannabis usage but some use of an antagonist may be needed at some point to fully or truly reset the receptor.

Post cannabis usage? Could you elaborate more?

[kevinseven11]

Is this site legal in the US?? If so GREAT find neuropill!
The side effects were depression.

Edited by kevinseven11, 13 October 2012 - 05:26 PM.

[jayfoxpox]

Are you trying to prevent the inhibition of working memory while high?

[timdecker]

Just uploaded a pdf with a short description and link to current information regarding cannabis and lung cancer.

http://pdfcast.org/d...lung-cancer.pdf

Is this site legal in the US?? If so GREAT find neuropill!
The side effects were depression.

People keep misinterpreting the data regarding depression and MJ. What is coming to light is, people who are depressed after they stop MJ is that they were dealing with depression prior to their decision to begin MJ.

EDIT: No need to use above link. I just uploaded the document to this site.  Cannabis Lung Cancer.pdf   126.85KB   8 downloads This is an excerpt from Granny Storm Crow.

Edited by timdecker, 13 October 2012 - 07:35 PM.

[golden1]

Rimonabant was discontinued though for side effects. If only we had access to it!

I believe it was for other reasons than side effects but that's what they used as an excuse to remove it from the main approved pharmaceutical market. It works great for alot of uses (weight loss, nicotine cessation, resetting cannabinoid receptors and helping prevent tolerance issues, etc). People who have depression or at risk should avoid or use it carefully as it may make it worse but this varies on the person as my friend uses it and it has not worsen his depression but reduced his body fat percentage.

It's currently available through research chemical labs that tend to focus on bodybuilders needs. Here's one:

https://www.iron-dra...?products_id=85

I do think it's a novel idea to create the best natural product for effecting post cannabis usage but some use of an antagonist may be needed at some point to fully or truly reset the receptor.

I don't get it. Do we now assume all receptors need an antagonist to "reset" them if you've agonized them, do you mean while one is high, or do you mean to faster counter the tolerance effects after the high has worn off which leave completely by themselves anyway(even with the highest tolerance within a week)? Please don't say #1 unless you have evidence to back it up... if you mean #3 then sure, if you smoke A LOT of weed I guess it could be useful(if it has been shown that an inverse agonist reduces tolerance). Personally an inverse agonist @ the CB receptors sounds like the shittiest thing ever, I guess I'll look up reviews to see what people say it feels like... lol. Either way, good find. I like to see these drugs available to try at the very least.




edit: Awesome list of studies about lung cancer, but I also meant to mention the effect of all the ash and particulate matter on the lungs(when smoked). I don't know how effective they can be at cleaning that out, but it isn't nearly as bad as cancer I suppose.

Edited by golden1, 13 October 2012 - 07:45 PM.

[timdecker]

Did the list not include the study showing people who smoke cannabis had a higher lung capacity than those who don't smoke? Ill check and if not ill post that article as well.

Here is the article for lung function:  joc15154_173_181.pdf   1.87MB   6 downloads

Their findings were niether good nor bad. This is one of the most recent studies on how it effects lung function. They started off with data that I am sure was fabricated (from previous research when dinos ruled the earth).

If your smoking cigs, then MJ should be the least of your wories =)

As far as how the particulates effect lungs go:

Here is my view (since there isn't enough research yet)...MJ is a wonderful plant. It tells bad cells to die, and good cells to live. So if you were to be a casual smoker (joint or 2 a day) I don't believe MJ will have any negative effects on lung functions.

"It tells bad cells to die, and good cells to live" --> Summary of MJ in a nutshell.

Edited by timdecker, 13 October 2012 - 08:11 PM.

[golden1]

Why thank you!

[timdecker]

On Oct 16, the US Court of Appeals - DC Ciruit is finally going to hear about rescheduling cannabis so that it is no longer on par with HEROIN!

The last time they looked at this was 20 years ago....they submitted an appeal 10 years ago and they are just now getting to it....

[neuropill]

Rimonabant was discontinued though for side effects. If only we had access to it!

I do think it's a novel idea to create the best natural product for effecting post cannabis usage but some use of an antagonist may be needed at some point to fully or truly reset the receptor.

Post cannabis usage? Could you elaborate more?

The effects and degree of cannabis's changes to receptors is due to and varies as it's mixture of different cannabinoids (mostly agonists) and naturally occurring cannabinoid antagonist(s) (Tetrahydrocannabivarin, etc). So tolerance and withdraw intensity varies on those factors (well and consumption, genetics, etc).

Agonists like thc downregulate CB receptors while antagonists like rimonabant upregulate CB receptors. If dosed properly during or after cannabis or related usage it can help to a degree with tolerance/withdrawal issues and with reversing some of the effects of thc. This can be especially important for memory. (https://www.ncbi.nlm...pubmed/17762525).

Here's an interesting page on CB receptors including some animation.

http://www.gwpharm.c...-of-action.aspx

Flumazenil's another interesting antagonist but for benzos (http://www.bcnc.org.uk/flumazenil.html).

Is this site legal in the US?? If so GREAT find neuropill!
The side effects were depression.

Rimonabant was discontinued though for side effects. If only we had access to it!

I believe it was for other reasons than side effects but that's what they used as an excuse to remove it from the main approved pharmaceutical market. It works great for alot of uses (weight loss, nicotine cessation, resetting cannabinoid receptors and helping prevent tolerance issues, etc). People who have depression or at risk should avoid or use it carefully as it may make it worse but this varies on the person as my friend uses it and it has not worsen his depression but reduced his body fat percentage.

It's currently available through research chemical labs that tend to focus on bodybuilders needs. Here's one:

https://www.iron-dra...?products_id=85

I do think it's a novel idea to create the best natural product for effecting post cannabis usage but some use of an antagonist may be needed at some point to fully or truly reset the receptor.

I don't get it. Do we now assume all receptors need an antagonist to "reset" them if you've agonized them, do you mean while one is high, or do you mean to faster counter the tolerance effects after the high has worn off which leave completely by themselves anyway(even with the highest tolerance within a week)? Please don't say #1 unless you have evidence to back it up... if you mean #3 then sure, if you smoke A LOT of weed I guess it could be useful(if it has been shown that an inverse agonist reduces tolerance). Personally an inverse agonist @ the CB receptors sounds like the shittiest thing ever, I guess I'll look up reviews to see what people say it feels like... lol. Either way, good find. I like to see these drugs available to try at the very least.

If you take an agonist you will generally increase receptor activity while your on it until down-regulation occurs then withdrawal effects happens in varying degrees occurs. Taking an antagonist has the opposite effect (or neutral) on the receptors generally changing their state and causes up-regulation. There's various research on pubmed you can look into but for obvious reasons no one's done a direct study on cannabis because they can't get funding for stuff like that.

My friend uses low dose Rimonabant and Memantine for preventing tolerance issues from cannabis and it works great according to him.

I've used Rimonabant for reversing the effects of short term usage of cannabis (Sativex) or nabilone when I use it so my receptors don't get too down-regulated. Taking high doses however will block or reverse any cannabis effects so low doses are required to make this work during usage.

I also use naltrexone successfully for preventing tolerance issues with Kratom extracts.

I should have some feedback soon on someone who had a bad experience with K2 who's going to try Rimonabant to help reset their receptors to deal with some cognitive impairment they have noticed. Should be interesting.

Edited by neuropill, 14 October 2012 - 05:53 AM.

[golden1]

Yes I know all of that in great detail(I study drugs and pharmacology in my free time), I was just wondering what your proposed purpose for it was and you explained it great for others who may not know about all of those things and now that I know your reasoning I can partially agree. It is just very hard to know what this thread is about when there wasn't as far as I read a real in depth description of what effects, at what time scale, we are even trying to reverse.... my point was that if one quits smoking weed and then months later(for some reason, I wouldn't know get why) wants to "reset" their receptors with an inverse agonist or antagonist, while I know it works sometimes to stop protracted benzodiazepine withdrawal using flumazenil that is a whole different ball game(and like I said it isn't always effective and sometimes detrimental. also I don't believe it is even known if the mechanism of it's success is "resetting" the receptors, which is a vague term which I don't quite understand). Yes you can upregulate receptors and downregulate them, but what does the term "resetting" them mean? Sorry, I suppose I was too vague before.

Also, fun fact: not all antagonists will cause upregulation, in fact some cause downregulation the same as agonists. I believe an example of this is the 5ht2a/c receptors, but my memory is hazy(from benzo tapering :P).

Edited by golden1, 14 October 2012 - 05:39 AM.